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iFLYjets
Topic Author
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US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:40 pm

I was at work recently and I found myself talking to a jump seater and he was telling me there are strong rumors (again, rumors ONLY ) that management at US wants to keep the airline under two certificated and run the airline like this. Is this possible? Can they get away with it? What does the DOT have to say about this or the FAA? What are your thoughts? I personally think the DOT should put a stop to this whole thing and make them get one certificate and finish this merger, it's been too long and too much of a hassle. Management has their heads spinning out of control. It feels like this is more than what their bargained for.

I also heard from the same person that UA was looking to buy just the EAST operation from US. Is that even posssible?

Thanks in advance everyone. Happy flying!
 
deltal1011man
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:58 pm

Quoting IFLYjets (Thread starter):
I was at work recently and I found myself talking to a jump seater and he was telling me there are strong rumors (again, rumors ONLY ) that management at US wants to keep the airline under two certificated and run the airline like this. Is this possible? Can they get away with it? What does the DOT have to say about this or the FAA? What are your thoughts? I personally think the DOT should put a stop to this whole thing and make them get one certificate and finish this merger, it's been too long and too much of a hassle. Management has their heads spinning out of control. It feels like this is more than what their bargained for.

i dont know i would think they could operate it as a subsidiary? like DL does with OH?

Quoting IFLYjets (Thread starter):
I also heard from the same person that UA was looking to buy just the EAST operation from US. Is that even posssible?

again if they dont merge HP and US together and keep HP a subsidiary then i think they could by US east(US airways) from US Airways Group

I really dont know to much about it this is a total guess so please no bashing
 
HPLASOps
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:21 pm

I think these rumors are dead wrong.

Everything that has been accomplished in the last two years has all been towards the achievement of one operating certificate. That has been the goal all along and continues to be the goal. They've already agreed upon a combined callsign ("cactus") for the new certificate, the res systems have been merged, in September the load manifest process will be merged and soon after, the certificates will be merged.

Quoting IFLYjets (Thread starter):
I also heard from the same person that UA was looking to buy just the EAST operation from US.

This person may have been referring to the proposed UA/US merger of a few years ago that fell through the cracks. Even if UA was interested, I don't see Dougie giving up the East operation after all that's happened.
 
gsosbee
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:52 pm

System migration, common paint scheme, administrative taks, etc., might be on schedule to be completed in September, but until the labor issues are solved, the complete transformation will not occur.
 
toltommy
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:29 am

Rumors from crewmembers are usually the results of wishful thinking. The new service rumors are usually cities they commute from. This sounds like a pilot unhappy with the results of the arbitrated seniority list. And that list is something between two ALPA groups. Again the talk of UA kicking the tires is a pilot who probably thinks he'd have it better if UA owned US East.
 
lincoln
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:33 am

Quoting IFLYjets (Thread starter):
What does the DOT have to say about this or the FAA? What are your thoughts? I personally think the DOT should put a stop to this whole thing and make them get one certificate and finish this merger, it's been too long and too much of a hassle.

I don't see how it affects the safety of the operation, so therefore I don't see any reason for the DOT to get itself involved. Ultimately, the government should not be unnecessarially involved in the operation of a private company -- it's not harming public safety, as far as I know it's not being done to circumvent some other law, and US is complying with the regulations applicable to both certificates.

Merely being a "hassle" (for whom? -- certainly not the public at large, perhaps employee groups) is not justification for meddling with the operation of an airline. The shareholders have persumably elected the board of directors with the belief that they know how to oversee an airline; the BOD has presumably chosen the CEO for the same reason.

That being said I don't think that US will operate with 2 certificates longer than necessary as I presume there are benefits to them of only having one certificate (i.e. only one ops manual, easier crew scheduling, combined reporting, etc, etc.) that make it advantageous to have one certificate instead of 2.

Lincoln
 
doug_or
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:51 am

The FAA and DOT could probably give two $h1ts about the merging of the certs. As long as each one is operated legaly and safely there is no problem with the government. The problem comes in with ALPA (and maybe the F/A unions? don't know much about that front). I don't know about the specific language of either the east or west side's CBAs, but almost any will have something in the scope section requireing the senority lists of merged carriers to be combined and preventing the airline form operating multiple certifcates as mainline.

Right now the hold up is of course that they have two contracts. Once they agree to a single contract the lists can be merged in accordance with the ruling by the arbitrator. The problems here are two fold. First, since both east and west sides have lousy, low paying contracts that trail the industry, the pilots will probably not agree to anything less than the best of both contracts + a decent pay raise. This means that its not in managment's interest to push the pilot groups foreward on this. Even if they refused the demands (the days of the government following the RLA and allowing a strike are essentialy over), an aribtrator would probably give the US pilots significantly more than they have now because, as mentioned above, they currently have much less than industry standard. The other problem is that the east side pilots outnumber the westside about 2:1 (or at least did a year ago, not sure how it looks now), and did not like the arbitrator's ruling on the merging of the lists. Because the arbitrator's ruling only goes into effect after there is a common contract, the east side pilots (who have a voting majority), have little incentive to vote yes (or even work towards a new, better contract).


Hope that helps; maybe if HAL sees this he can add something and correct some of my inevitable mistakes.
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:11 am

The longer they stay seperate the more it benefits me. I like the HP(Westie) side of the house better. I dread the day when US-east's attitude starts infecting my west coast travel.
 
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asuflyer05
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:35 am

Those ideas are not really rumors. They are from an email among some HP employees which was basically a bunch of 'what ifs.' Though it presents some interesting possibilities, such as keeping separate certificates so HP can pick up what it wants and then sell off what it does not want (Shuttle, PHL hub operation to WN, etc.) it was all meant in humor.
 
whappeh
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:36 am

I heard the UA rumor as well... that can't make much sense, as it didn't work the last time US/UA tried it.
 
HPRamper
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:16 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 7):
The longer they stay seperate the more it benefits me. I like the HP(Westie) side of the house better. I dread the day when US-east's attitude starts infecting my west coast travel.

That won't happen. The employees are what makes the difference, and the employees in western stations aren't going anywhere.
 
iFLYjets
Topic Author
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:01 am

Well we already have one manual for the FAs systemwide (east, west) so thats when I think that the merger of the ceritifcates is in the approaching horizon.

I agree that the people that commute from random cities are the ones that say that we are starting new service there. bless their souls. lol
 
AirframeAS
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:01 am

Quoting IFLYjets (Thread starter):
I was at work recently and I found myself talking to a jump seater and he was telling me there are strong rumors (again, rumors ONLY ) that management at US wants to keep the airline under two certificated and run the airline like this. Is this possible?

Yes, it is possible. AS/QX is doing it now under the Alaska Air Group.

On a side note, question: Are the flights on the west metal still considered as a HP flight still? Im thinking yes. Do the west airplanes still have the HP interiors?
 
whappeh
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:22 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 12):
Do the west airplanes still have the HP interiors?

Yes. Even some of the Mesa CRJ-900s they sent out east has the HP interior, I just flew one on Friday that had all America West seats/walls, etc.
 
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asuflyer05
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:30 am

Quoting Whappeh (Reply 13):
Yes. Even some of the Mesa CRJ-900s they sent out east has the HP interior, I just flew one on Friday that had all America West seats/walls, etc.

For the most part the HP interiors are intact though some aircraft have switched to leather seat covers.

A friend of mine flew through CLT and was surprised to see 3 or 4 A320s in HP colors there. He said he thought he saw the Arizona 757 too. Wonder why they do that?
 
doug_or
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:30 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 12):
Yes, it is possible. AS/QX is doing it now under the Alaska Air Group.

To be fair, thats more like US's relationship with Piedmont/PSA (or any other w/o regional). The current HP/US situation is more unique because there are two seperate airlines operating as mainline under the single branding of US Airways.
 
lincoln
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:21 am

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 15):
The current HP/US situation is more unique because there are two seperate airlines operating as mainline under the single branding of US Airways

Yes, but in many ways it's just a really well executed codeshare (the flightplans are still filed as HP/AWA and US/USA flight numbers, right?) -- so not much different than "Continental Airlines 1234 operated by Northwest Airlines" or "American 4567 operated by Alaska Airlines" just in this case it's "US Airways 1234 operated by America West Airlines dba US Airways" (or however the official structure is)

Lincoln
 
n710ps
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:31 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 7):
The longer they stay seperate the more it benefits me. I like the HP(Westie) side of the house better. I dread the day when US-east's attitude starts infecting my west coast travel.

What is your constant problem with the east? Seriously? Too bad if you do not like the seinority based travel system, that is how it is for a reason. If you do not like it use your SA1's. You have 3 this year remember? Get over it, at every other airline it is seinority based so why should the oh so holy westies be any diffrent. Welcome to the realm of working for a "real" airline. Now animosity aside here welcome to the family andwho are you with?

Cheers

The bluestreak kid.
 
whappeh
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:31 am

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 14):
A friend of mine flew through CLT and was surprised to see 3 or 4 A320s in HP colors there. He said he thought he saw the Arizona 757 too. Wonder why they do that?

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe there are HP birds (now most likely painted in US colours), that fly US-East routes with West Aircraft and Crews for trips (IE, they'd go ((THIS IS MADE UP, DON'T JUMP ON ME FOR TRUTH!!)) PHX-CLT-MIA-CLT-PIT-CLT-PHX) and US-East crews do the same out west, in fact I had a US-East aircraft and crew for PHX to SLC, its just a way for them to mix up the aircraft and crews to get them into each other's route structure and get people used to the difference, I suppose.

Apparently, its also away to save money because of US East pilots that make less then US West pilots so they send East pilots on longer routes out of the West, though thats just what I hear from pissed off East pilots, so it could be greatly overblown.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:43 am

Quoting Whappeh (Reply 18):

So, how would one know if they were on an HP flight vs a US flight?
 
whappeh
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:47 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 19):
So, how would one know if they were on an HP flight vs a US flight?

Does it really matter, since you can buy 1 ticket and get there regardless? Look at the seats? Listen to where the flight crew is based? Look at the sticker on the door that says "This Aircraft is Operated by America West Airlines"?

[Edited 2007-07-16 02:47:33]
 
John
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:10 am

NEW target date for a single US operating certificate...September 27th. This coincides with the 2nd anniversary of the merger, BTW. Management of course would prefer that the pilots and flight attendants agree to a single contract before this date, but it's not essential.
 
freshlove1
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:12 am

Quoting Whappeh (Reply 9):
I heard the UA rumor as well... that can't make much sense, as it didn't work the last time US/UA tried it.

Where would UA get the $$ to do it. They barely have enough $$ to keep their operation afloat right now so them taking on the US East section would do them no good. They (UA) should concentrate on their current operation and make that better insted of trying to take on something else.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:12 am

Quoting Whappeh (Reply 20):
Look at the sticker on the door that says "This Aircraft is Operated by America West Airlines"?

Those are gone, with the new livery. Thats why I asked.
 
pbiflyer
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:26 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 23):
Those are gone, with the new livery. Thats why I asked.

Nope, still on the new livery aircraft. At PBI there are a 4 west A320 flights on some days and 2 on others. Stickers on planes still say operated by Amierica West Airlines. I flew on one of them a couple of weeks ago.
 
Flighty
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:00 am

There would be some benefits in labor fregmentation / weakening that go along with separate certificates. For example, Northwest bought that cert to launch their EMB-175 airline. Why, partly to avoid tangling with mainline ALPA. Also, during a mainline ALPA strike, the EMB-175s may still fly.

Keeping labor divided keeps them weaker. This takes away some of the union strike threat, and allows them to be lower paid than if they unite.

Doug Parker has always said he does not care of East/West pilots ever unite on one contract. The status quo is just fine.
 
iFLYjets
Topic Author
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:07 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 12):
On a side note, question: Are the flights on the west metal still considered as a HP flight still? Im thinking yes. Do the west airplanes still have the HP interiors?

And then some! Some of our airplanes have BRANIFF logos inside the airplane... in the back galley behind the carts theres like BRANIFF stickers and stuff. some of our ovens have TWA oven inserts, the training center has PAN AM life jackets, the other day we had a AA blanket coming out of BOS, and we had an EASTERN galley atlas carrier circa 1970 lol. its always interesting what flight attendant can find in the airplane when we are bored. lol.

regarding the mixed flying... in the past few months i have seen the following routes in our bid:

SAN-CLT
SFO-PHL
SAN-PHL
PDX-CLT
CLT-PBI
CLT-TPA
CLT-EWR
CLT-DCA
 
WesternA318
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:10 am

Quoting IFLYjets (Reply 26):
And then some! Some of our airplanes have BRANIFF logos inside the airplane... in the back galley behind the carts theres like BRANIFF stickers and stuff. some of our ovens have TWA oven inserts, the training center has PAN AM life jackets, the other day we had a AA blanket coming out of BOS, and we had an EASTERN galley atlas carrier circa 1970 lol. its always interesting what flight attendant can find in the airplane when we are bored. lol.

I remember flying on one of the 757's and chatting it up with the F/A's when they pulled up something with the final Republic logo.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:15 am

Quoting IFLYjets (Reply 26):
some of our ovens have TWA oven inserts

That would be LSG SkyChef's fault on that one. They are the ones that clean the coffee pots and oven inserts here in PHX.
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:17 am

Quoting IFLYjets (Thread starter):
I also heard from the same person that UA was looking to buy just the EAST operation from US. Is that even posssible?

It would seem entirely possible for US to sell the primary assets of their "East operation," namely their slots, gates and perhaps some aircraft, to UA subject to approval by regulatory agencies. If it were to happen, it would be a case of one dysfunctional airline transferring part of itself to an even more dysfunctional airline.
 
jc2354
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:11 pm

This is an interesting thread. I, thinking that most things are conspiracy related, wonder if the could keep both certificates. That way, if one got yanked (for whatever reason), they would have a spare to fall back on.
 
dxBrian
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:32 pm

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 6):
The FAA and DOT could probably give two $h1ts about the merging of the certs.

There will be job losses in this for the FAA. Each airline has a Certificate Management Office, so with the operations leaving AZ for Pittsburgh, the America West CMO closes. That means a POI, PMI, PAI, as well as support staff.
 
Charliejag1
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:49 pm

Quoting IFLYjets (Thread starter):
I personally think the DOT should put a stop to this whole thing and make them get one certificate and finish this merger, it's been too long and too much of a hassle. Management has their heads spinning out of control. It feels like this is more than what their bargained for.

Your opinions are clear, but do you have anything to support those opinions(other than maybe wanting to snag a europe trip, nothing wrong with that).

Also, for the record, I don't think the certificates will stay seperate. On the same token, there are so many benefits of a merged certificate.

-Charlie
 
sllevin
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 12):
Yes, it is possible. AS/QX is doing it now under the Alaska Air Group.

That's because AS and QX are two seperate companies, although AAG owns both. However, someday, they might want to sell off QX, and this allows them to do that. The same reasoning does not apply to US where the operations are being fully integrated.

Steve
 
WesternA318
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:28 am

Quoting Charliejag1 (Reply 32):
Also, for the record, I don't think the certificates will stay seperate. On the same token, there are so many benefits of a merged certificate.

Doug Parker has gone on record before saying the certificates will be merged eventually, but nothing more than that. At least US is ironing out their problems before the certificate merge. I flew on them recently and was impressed with the East Operation's improvements, but as others have stated in many a thread, there is still work to be done.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 12):
AS/QX is doing it now under the Alaska Air Group.

Texas Air at one point owned CO, EA, PeoplExpress, Frontier, and a host of other airlines until the Big Bang on 2-1-87. they ALL had different certificates, then poof it all came under the CO certificate.
 
freshlove1
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:30 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 34):
Texas Air at one point owned CO, EA, PeoplExpress, Frontier, and a host of other airlines

Was N.Y. Air also one of them? I seem to remember it was.
 
WesternA318
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:32 am

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 35):
Was N.Y. Air also one of them? I seem to remember it was.

It most indeed was...before the big bang, they had an aircraft purchase agreement with CO (also a Texas Air company), for 737-300's and MD-80's.
 
moman
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:38 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 4):
Rumors from crewmembers are usually the results of wishful thinking. The new service rumors are usually cities they commute from. This sounds like a pilot unhappy with the results of the arbitrated seniority list. And that list is something between two ALPA groups. Again the talk of UA kicking the tires is a pilot who probably thinks he'd have it better if UA owned US East.

I've found the flight crew to be among the least correct when it comes to rumors. An AA pilot told me to expect a full MD80 re-engine project. They are probably hoping - as I think it was stated by Parker that the airline COULD keep two certificicates if merging the pilots union was going to be so contentious it would ruin the business.

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 8):
Those ideas are not really rumors. They are from an email among some HP employees which was basically a bunch of 'what ifs.' Though it presents some interesting possibilities, such as keeping separate certificates so HP can pick up what it wants and then sell off what it does not want (Shuttle, PHL hub operation to WN, etc.) it was all meant in humor.

Yip, and the HQ crew is to be trusted as well. Working as a corporate drone (not for US) most of the rumors I've heard are just someone's wild dream or so hokey as to be laughable (something along the lines of a private equity firm buying out the airline).

The only people who really know what is going on are they people who cannot legally talk about it.
 
sflaflight
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:14 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 16):

Yes, but in many ways it's just a really well executed codeshare (the flightplans are still filed as HP/AWA and US/USA flight numbers, right?) -- so not much different than "Continental Airlines 1234 operated by Northwest Airlines" or "American 4567 operated by Alaska Airlines" just in this case it's "US Airways 1234 operated by America West Airlines dba US Airways" (or however the official structure is)

Lincoln

BINGO!!!! Well put and best explanation for the current situation.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:55 am

not it really is not a good comparison.

CO and NW do not share revenue, they don't and can't collaborate on pricing/schedules/planning, and they do not share any costs. US/HP is one company with the ability to do all of the above but they have separate operating certificates. From a business standpoint, they are one.
 
lincoln
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:14 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 39):
not it really is not a good comparison.

It really depends on which end of the equation you're looking at. Yes, from the back office business perspective it's not a traditional code share (although I would argue that codeshare partners often colaborate, to an extent, on scheduling and that the codesharing airline definately sets pricing* -- exactly as is hapening here) but as far as the passenger getting from A to B is concerned, it's no different than a normal codeshare.

Lincoln

* - As an example, three years ago I flew on an AS-coded AA-operated flight from SFO to LAX. When I priced exactly the same itineraries on AA (both AA-coded/AA-operated and AA-coded/AS-operated) the AA options for the -exactly-the-same-flight- were considerably higher.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:16 am

The corporate standpoint is the one that determines who a company is. Yes, from a passenger standpoint, it is a codeshare but even there the argument falls apart. NW and CO don't coordinate service standards nor do AA and AS. HP/US is more than just a codeshare from a passenger standpoint. It is one company with two sets of employees. It is more like a wholly owned subsidiary Alaska/Horizon or Delta/Comair than NW/CO or AS/AA.
 
Flighty
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:23 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 40):
but as far as the passenger getting from A to B is concerned, it's no different than a normal codeshare.

As far as passengers are concerned, US is one airline that is completely merged in every way. The old US is completely gone. Only (flight crew) employees know differently.
 
HPAEAA
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:32 am

I agree, it might work having 2 operating certificates.. when it comes to negotiation time, you can pit the two against each other to keep costs in check! (Not the best way to look at it I know, but US MGT did offer the higher cost contract to the union and told them to sort out the seniority issue)... I can't see how they would be more fair in this case...
 
iFLYjets
Topic Author
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:41 pm

Quoting Charliejag1 (Reply 32):
Your opinions are clear, but do you have anything to support those opinions(other than maybe wanting to snag a europe trip, nothing wrong with that).

haha. i dont think so. eruope is beautiful and its great, but i have no desire to work a 6+ hr flight. id rather non rev there have fun and non rev right back home.  Smile i dont even pick up hawaiis, again no desire to work on our 757s accross the pacific. i fly HA there and back.
 
klkla
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RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:20 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 25):
Keeping labor divided keeps them weaker.

Somebody gets it! There's always a 'good' reason why things are they way they are and then there's the 'real' reason.

If 'East' pilots go on strike, the 'west' pilots would still be flying.. thereby weakening the bargaining power of the 'east' pilots.
 
n710ps
Posts: 1116
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:09 am

RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:26 pm

Even if westies were still flying they cannot fly the east birds right now meaning the staement holds no water and over 50% of the operation is down the tubes. The westies have nothing without the easties if tempe runs it how it is at this moment.. They will be in deep dog doo doo
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: US: Keeping Two Separate Ceritifcates

Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:09 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 42):
As far as passengers are concerned, US is one airline that is completely merged in every way. The old US is completely gone. Only (flight crew) employees know differently.

Not completely -- the flight boards (at least at PHL) show HP flight numbers and when building an itinerary on usairways.com it's clearly shown "Flight operated by America West Airlines" (ex. US536/HP536)

Lincoln

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