kaitak
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Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:14 am

According to a post on PPRUNE, from a usually good source, SV is expected to place an order for 110 acft in the near future (or to be more accurate, it's "looking to place" an order); the quote comes from the airline's DG, interviewed in Arabic on national tv. Previously, SV had denied any possibility of such an order.

The order will be very interesting from a political viewpoint; it's no great secret that, last time out, the Europeans were pretty miffed over the failure of SV to buy any Airbus aircraft (it no longer operates Airbus aircraft, the original A300-600s having now been retired). Although Saudi Arabia is doing very well, financially, out of the current high oil prices (can't help wondering - does SV add fuel surcharges to its ticket price -  Wink ), the govt may well be anxious to boost relations with the EU with a significant order.

As to what acft will be involved, I would suspect that their priority will be a replacement for the MD90s and A300s, so an A32X and 787 order might look a good guess, although this will be a very large order and there may well be a significant VLA aspect. Remember that SV only has 4 744s (plus one now used as a VIP acft) and the 747-100s/300s aren't getting any younger, so you could see a combination of 777-300ERs and/or 747-8s, or indeed A380s. It wouldn't surprise me if the Saudi Royal Family were to acquire an A380 VIP version.

This will be a very interesting order!
 
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Stitch
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:19 am

With Airbus selling A320's by the gross through Paris, I wonder if Boeing might not be in a better delivery position with the 737NG if that is important?

Otherwise, an A32x narrowbody and 787+777 widebody order would make sense, in that it covers both the US and the EU and keeps SA in good graces with both.

I'm guessing no VLA's - A388 or 748I - unless those are critical for the Hadji (sic), though a 77W should be good enough.
 
jimyvr
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:41 am

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
can't help wondering - does SV add fuel surcharges to its ticket price

Yes, however it's cheap. like about $10 on JFK-RUH r/t
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
EI321
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:55 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
I'm guessing no VLA's - A388 or 748I - unless those are critical for the Hadji (sic), though a 77W should be good enough.

They might just keep 747-200's or -300's for that and use them in the season. Thats why the still have the 747-100's AKAIK.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Otherwise, an A32x narrowbody and 787+777 widebody order would make sense, in that it covers both the US and the EU and keeps SA in good graces with both.

Im not sure replacing their 777's with newer 777's is a great idea considering whats on offer these days, unless its urgent. Their oldest 777 is 9.5 years old. Ive heard that the 777's are a bit big for some routes so the 787 should be a good fit.
 
flytuitravel
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:58 am

If this is a replacement of the current fleet kinda order, this is what I'd like to see...

18-20x Boeing 777-300/ER to replace 8x 747-100, 10x 747-300
4x Airbus A380-800/Boeing 747-800I to replace 4x Boeing 747-400
OR 2x Airbus A380-800 & 2x Boeing 747-800I to replace 4x Boeing 747-400
27-30x Airbus A320-200E/Embraer 195 to replace 27x McDonnell-Douglas MD-90
4x Airbus A319-100/Embraer 175 to replace 4x Boeing 737-200
9-10x Boeing 787-800 (?) to replace 9x Airbus A300-600R
22-25 Airbus A350-900 to replace 22 Boeing 777-200/ER from 2013-onwards
2-4x Boeing 747-400/ER/F to replace 2x Boeing 747-200/F

Just my idea of a good future fleet for Saudi Arabian....
Like to know your thoughts!

FLYTUITRAVEL.
 
EI321
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:13 am

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 5):
If this is a replacement of the current fleet kinda order, this is what I'd like to see...

18-20x Boeing 777-300/ER to replace 8x 747-100, 10x 747-300
4x Airbus A380-800/Boeing 747-800I to replace 4x Boeing 747-400
OR 2x Airbus A380-800 & 2x Boeing 747-800I to replace 4x Boeing 747-400
27-30x Airbus A320-200E/Embraer 195 to replace 27x McDonnell-Douglas MD-90
4x Airbus A319-100/Embraer 175 to replace 4x Boeing 737-200
9-10x Boeing 787-800 (?) to replace 9x Airbus A300-600R
22-25 Airbus A350-900 to replace 22 Boeing 777-200/ER from 2013-onwards
2-4x Boeing 747-400/ER/F to replace 2x Boeing 747-200/F

Highly doubt they would mix up the fleet that much.

As far as I know, the 747-1000's are used now for the hadj flights, so I doubt they would purchase new aircraft that would not be used year round. Im not sure they need VLA's and a fleet of 2 A380 or 2 747-8 make no economical sense. The A320/737/E19X is a definite possibility but they will only 737 or A320, not both. The 787 is a very strong possibiity. The A350 less so, unless they conform to the anology below. The 747-400F would of course have to be second hand.

Ignoring policits, and assuming that Saudi does not have a critical need for fleet replacement then I see no reason why they would not order the following:

Narrow
Embraers and 737NG or A32X

Wide
787-8, 787-9 or A350-900, A350-1000, no VLA.
or
A350-800, A350-900, A350-1000 and possibly A380 although Im not convinced they need it.
or
787-8, 787-9 and 747-8i.

Wern't they on the verge of ordered the A330 in the late 90's?
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:34 am

I find the concept of a 115-plane order for SV a bit far fetched, but if they are going to place such a huge order, here's how i see it going down.

787-8 in good numbers, possibly the -3 as well. These will be replacing a lot of 777 services which will replace the majority of the 747s for what they use them for. Probably a load of ERJ190 or A32X series as well to replace all the MD90s. 77W to replace some of the 747s. 77Fs as well I would think to replace the MD11 and cargo Jumbo classics.

Probably breaks down into:

20 x ERJ190 or A319/20
12 x 787-3
30 x 787-8
6 x 77W
8 x 777F
2 x VIP A388
5 x Embraer Legacy bizjets or G-Vs to replace the older Gulfstreams in their fleet.
A couple of A318 ACJs.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
migair54
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:59 am

to have everybody happy they probably order A32X and B787, but it will be great to see FlyTUITravel mix.

And for cargo maybe 777F or why not convert they current 744 to cargo planes, its cheaper than buy new ones.

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 4):

18-20x Boeing 777-300/ER to replace 8x 747-100, 10x 747-300
4x Airbus A380-800/Boeing 747-800I to replace 4x Boeing 747-400
OR 2x Airbus A380-800 & 2x Boeing 747-800I to replace 4x Boeing 747-400
27-30x Airbus A320-200E/Embraer 195 to replace 27x McDonnell-Douglas MD-90
4x Airbus A319-100/Embraer 175 to replace 4x Boeing 737-200
9-10x Boeing 787-800 (?) to replace 9x Airbus A300-600R
22-25 Airbus A350-900 to replace 22 Boeing 777-200/ER from 2013-onwards
2-4x Boeing 747-400/ER/F to replace 2x Boeing 747-200/F

i dont think so, such a mix of airplanes. it´s crazy. but if you want a real mix you forgot some Tu-204to replace the A300 and some SSJ to replace the 737-200. and don´t forget cessna mustang and falcon 2000 to replace the G-V.

 banghead  it´s a joke mate!!!
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:10 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 6):
I find the concept of a 115-plane order for SV a bit far fetched,

Yeah me too, but if anything I thin a A-320 & 777/787 order very likely, since I dont think they can get 737 before 4 years from now anyway.
One Nation Under God
 
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Stitch
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 8):
Yeah me too, but if anything I thin a A-320 & 777/787 order very likely, since I dont think they can get 737 before 4 years from now anyway.

I'm not sure they can get A320s before then, either, since they sold 500 or something at Paris.
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 8):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 6):
I find the concept of a 115-plane order for SV a bit far fetched,

Yeah me too, but if anything I thin a A-320 & 777/787 order very likely, since I dont think they can get 737 before 4 years from now anyway.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 8):
Yeah me too, but if anything I thin a A-320 & 777/787 order very likely, since I dont think they can get 737 before 4 years from now anyway.

I'm not sure they can get A320s before then, either, since they sold 500 or something at Paris.

Think a load of ERJ190/195s would do fine for them. They are very happy with the ERJ170s they got by all accounts.

What sort of range does the ERJ195 have? Where in Europe and North Africa could they operate it?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
jimyvr
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:18 am

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 4):

18-20x Boeing 777-300/ER to replace 8x 747-100, 10x 747-300

Makes Sense. However, some of the 747-100 routes (even -300s) are only 1 or 2 weekly

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 4):
4x Airbus A380-800/Boeing 747-800I to replace 4x Boeing 747-400
OR 2x Airbus A380-800 & 2x Boeing 747-800I to replace 4x Boeing 747-400

Latter is unlikely since it's just uneconomical to maintain both 380 and 747-8 in small quantity

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 4):
27-30x Airbus A320-200E/Embraer 195 to replace 27x McDonnell-Douglas MD-90

I wonder how's the lease of Atlasjet A320/321 is doing with SV.

Some MD90s are actually being replaced by Embraers.

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 4):
4x Airbus A319-100/Embraer 175 to replace 4x Boeing 737-200

This should fall under M90 replacement category since MD90 was meant to replace 737-200.

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 4):
9-10x Boeing 787-800 (?) to replace 9x Airbus A300-600R

Or A330-200 as interim replacement, than switches to A350-800XWB.

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 4):
22-25 Airbus A350-900 to replace 22 Boeing 777-200/ER from 2013-onwards

It may also replace A300-600R if they wish

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 4):
2-4x Boeing 747-400/ER/F to replace 2x Boeing 747-200/F

They still have MD11Fs too.
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
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LTU932
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 11):
They still have MD11Fs too.

And MD-11 PAX for SV Royal Flight. However, the MD-11Fs could easily be replaced with a few 777-200Fs in the future.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
B7X7
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:09 am

Could we not see an order for the 787-10 to replace there 777-200/ER
 
FCKC
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:52 am

I was told by an SV captain some months ago , here in Paris , they will split their order between A and B.

They will buy BOTH 787 and A350XWB.
He also told me they will buy A330s as well.

No words about narrow bodies.


He also told me , Saudi Arabia would like to be closer from Europe , and a little bit more far from USA.

In one word , this order smells political decision.........
 
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Stitch
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:56 am

Maybe 787-9 and A350-1000? That would cover the 777s and 747 fleets.
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:15 pm

Quoting FCKC (Reply 14):
I was told by an SV captain some months ago , here in Paris , they will split their order between A and B.

They will buy BOTH 787 and A350XWB.
He also told me they will buy A330s as well.

No words about narrow bodies.

Since crew are the first to know everything right?

I also clearly recall SV Director General Khaled al-Mulhim saying they were not even looking at buying for 4-5yrs but would lease as the demand increased.
Saudi carrier says no immediate plan to buy aircraft

[Edited 2007-07-17 05:30:52]
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:25 pm

Quoting FCKC (Reply 14):
In one word , this order smells political decision.........

Sorry, which one word was that? If it was political, you're right. Their order will reflect very much who the Saud family are courting in terms of helping maintain their status quo.

IMHO
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
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SEPilot
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:35 pm

Quoting FCKC (Reply 14):
In one word , this order smells political decision.........

As it seems are most aircraft orders from this corner of the world.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:38 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 18):
Quoting FCKC (Reply 14):
In one word , this order smells political decision.........

As it seems are most aircraft orders from this corner of the world

Oh dear.

I suppose you think EK, EY, and QR only ordered Airbus for Political reasons right? Only political orders in the region I can think of is Yemenia and Kuwait.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
EI321
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:49 pm

Quoting FCKC (Reply 14):
They will buy BOTH 787 and A350XWB.
He also told me they will buy A330s as well.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
Maybe 787-9 and A350-1000? That would cover the 777s and 747 fleets.

I think a 788, 789 (or A359) and A350-1000 order would make sense. Its far from certain that they would order the 747-8 or A380.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 18):
Quoting FCKC (Reply 14):
In one word , this order smells political decision.........

As it seems are most aircraft orders from this corner of the world.

Thats not quite true. Most airlines from this part of the world from Emirates to Qatar to Royal Jordanian have bought the best planes to suit their requirements.
 
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SEPilot
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:54 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 19):
I suppose you think EK, EY, and QR only ordered Airbus for Political reasons right? Only political orders in the region I can think of is Yemenia and Kuwait.

I don't say that's the only reason, but from what I see politics was heavily involved, especially in QR's A350 purchase. I believe that they want to acquire part of Airbus (or maybe all of it.)
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
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PM
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:12 pm

Quoting FCKC (Reply 14):
In one word , this order smells political decision.........

i.e. just like the last order...  Yeah sure
 
EI321
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:16 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 21):
I don't say that's the only reason, but from what I see politics was heavily involved, especially in QR's A350 purchase. I believe that they want to acquire part of Airbus (or maybe all of it.)

Didn't they decide on the A350 back in 2005?
 
FCKC
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:05 am

EI321

No they never made any commitments for the A350 , and never said something about this plane.

PM

Same thing as the last order.
Will G Bush do the same thing B Clinton did by calling the King of Saudi Arabia , to tell him to buy American ?


I guess this time they will split their order , and will not buy planes they do not like.I am referring to the MD90s , which was unable to replace totally the 732s.They had to wait for the Embraers to phase them out definitively , as the MD90s were unable to land on short runways which are not uncommon in Saudi Arabia.
 
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PM
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:04 am

Quoting FCKC (Reply 24):
Will G Bush do the same thing B Clinton did by calling the King of Saudi Arabia , to tell him to buy American ?

I still bear a grudge over the engine deal for SV's 777s. It was going to RR until someone in DC picked up the phone...  Angry

Or am I imagining that? Isn't it A.Net received wisdom that politicians only weigh in like that on the "other" side of the Atlantic...?  innocent 
 
da man
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RE: Mega SV Order Due

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:06 am

Quoting PM (Reply 25):
I still bear a grudge over the engine deal for SV's 777s. It was going to RR until someone in DC picked up the phone...

Not to mention that the Trent 800 on the 777 would have been perfect since the 777s at SV replaced their L-1011-200s with RB211s.
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