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allstarflyer
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:42 am

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 45):
Reports say the the Aircraft burst into flames after hitting a gas station? can that be confirmed?

Yeah, that's what I'm seeing on Foxnews just behind me here at work. From what somebody who apparently lives there says . . .

Quoting Cmtehori (Reply 22):
First victim just rescued, unfortunately already dead

. . . FoxNews might be a bit slow, though, on reporting about injuries or deaths.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289696,00.html

Same for CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americ...7/brazil.plane.crash.ap/index.html

Hopefully, it stays as much as possible that way (about no injuries and deaths to report, that is). Looks like they're just relying on AP reports, nothing else so far.

-R

[Edited 2007-07-18 01:44:32]

Edited for additional content and then for clarity

[Edited 2007-07-18 01:48:11]
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ORL777
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:44 am

Anyone has new Info about here is very difficult to find information..

Does anybody have the reg number of the A320? Any confirmed Fatalities?

Pretty bad news here and just the same day that the TWA800 just really sad
 
dudubsb
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:44 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 46):

According to media reports, the plane was using the main runway (the longer one). The gas station is adjacent to the TAM Express building. No one really knows by now which one of the two premises was hit first..
 
ULMFlyer
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:45 am

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 45):
Just a question tho? Was this aircraft landing on the shorter of the two runways? It seems to me that even the longer runway seems quite tight for landings in the rain. Reports say the the Aircraft burst into flames after hitting a gas station? can that be confirmed?

It was landing on the main runway which was reopened after reforms (but not grooving) on 6/29. It seems the gas station is right next to the building hit by the aircraft, and firefighters are trying to avoid that the fire spread there.
Let's go Pens!
 
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tavong
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:46 am

No words......God bless the victimas nad their families....... No words.....

Gus
SKBO
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allstarflyer
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:46 am

Reuters confirms at least one dead, and says the government has no word on other casualties. Sounds like they're drawing from Globo News

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN1726359820070717

-R
Living the American Dream
 
spacecadet
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:48 am

Foxnews just said this was an accident waiting to happen due to "short runways" of "only 8,500 to 9,000 feet". And they presented this as fact, not speculation.

 banghead 
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
loalq
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:52 am

No info on the number of passengers in this flight yet. It was said that the plane could take as much as 170 pax. One death already officially confimed...

Sad, very sad...
"...this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped."
 
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tomascubero
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:52 am

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 56):
Foxnews just said this was an accident waiting to happen due to "short runways" of "only 8,500 to 9,000 feet". And they presented this as fact, not speculation.

Just a matter of minutes for someone to blow it as usual, press will never learn...

Right now both CNN and CNN in Spanish have taken the images off, and gone to some Iraq crap, if it was an accident in the US or a US Airline, it would be dead focused to it, like when they made that huge drama with the Southwest overrun in MDW...

Tomas.
 
iwok
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:53 am

I hope and pray for survivors!

iwok
 
dudubsb
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:53 am

It is interesting to see how TAM is dealing with the accident. They just updated their web page: "Information on the "incident" in Congonhas" (free translation from Portuguese). I'm not sure if "incident" has the same meaning in English, but we usually use "incident" in Portuguese for minor or accessory events.
 
ULMFlyer
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:54 am

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 56):
Foxnews just said this was an accident waiting to happen due to "short runways" of "only 8,500 to 9,000 feet". And they presented this as fact, not speculation.

Indeed. Many internet sources list it as 6362 ft long, a little shorter than MDW's 04R/22L at 6446 and 13C/31C at 6522 ft.
Let's go Pens!
 
dudubsb
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:57 am

Well, TAM web page was updated again. They are finally treating the accident like a real accident....

[Edited 2007-07-18 01:59:19]
 
hiflyer
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:57 am

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 56):
they presented this as fact, not speculation.

Give Fox a few minutes to catch up...then they will say it was terrorism...sigh

Serious question....aren't minimums changed for grooved/non grooved runways.....ie wouldn't this recently reopened runway left ungrooved have higher minimums when wet because of it.....can anyone tell if a notam to that effect was issued? Also...since a busy airport any pireps on braking action prior to this approach?

[Edited 2007-07-18 02:00:17]
 
khelmDTW
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:58 am

This date is not a good one for aviation.

I hope everyone is okay
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration"
 
fanofjets
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:58 am

Very sad news indeed! I just read the report - my condolences for the victims and their families.
The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
 
CV990
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:01 am

Hi!

That's a very sad day indeed for TAM, an airline that I respect a lot for the way they've been consistently growing and also the great service they give. I flew with them back to June 2004 from Curitiba to Asuncion/Paraguay and flight was great, the service was great and the crew was great both ways. I flew the Fokker F100 and the plane was in very good condition. With the information given so far I would rule in the fact that it was raining a lot at that time and runway conditions were probably not good either. Looking to the images if there are any survivors that really a big miracle....and I believe in miracles!!!
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
PPSMA
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:01 am

Hi everybody!

This is to try and give those who are not familiar with the area of the airport AN IDEA of where the A320 crashed!

Photo taken from Google Earth.

Cheers
Big version: Width: 969 Height: 768 File size: 118kb
local of the accident of TAM´s A320
Aviation is my thing!
 
hoya
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:01 am

Quoting Tomascubero (Reply 58):
Right now both CNN and CNN in Spanish have taken the images off, and gone to some Iraq crap, if it was an accident in the US or a US Airline, it would be dead focused to it, like when they made that huge drama with the Southwest overrun in MDW...

In all fairness, al-Jazeera, BBC World aren't coverning either. CNN International is showing images non-stop now.

I pray for survivors, and my condolences to the victims and their family and friends.
Hoya Saxa!!
 
spacecadet
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:03 am

Quoting Dudubsb (Reply 60):
I'm not sure if "incident" has the same meaning in English, but we usually use "incident" in Portuguese for minor or accessory events.

It can mean a minor event, but it can also mean an event that you don't yet know the magnitude of. It's a generic term meaning "something that happened". The only reason we usually use it for minor events is that more major events have different words... "tragedy", "catastrophe", etc. So minor incidents are the only kind that stay "incidents" forever. But you can still use it for an accident that appears bad but that you don't have confirmation of the severity of yet.

Quoting ULMFlyer (Reply 61):
Indeed. Many internet sources list it as 6362 ft long, a little shorter than MDW's 04R/22L at 6446 and 13C/31C at 6522 ft.

That's short (shorter than Foxnews said), but I wouldn't call it an "accident waiting to happen". Especially not for landings - it's takeoffs that have bigger problems with short runways. Even Narita Airport, landing 747's and larger, uses a runway of only 7,152 feet.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
cmtehori
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:03 am

Quoting ULMFlyer (Reply 61):
Many internet sources list it as 6362 ft long, a little shorter than MDW's 04R/22L at 6446 and 13C/31C at 6522 ft.

That´s correct! Rwy 17R/35L for SBSP is 1940 meters long (plus 60m stopway). 1940 x 3,28 and you get 6363 feet! Just for the records, the airport was operating IFR, Hotel 5 approach, I listened to the ATIS message after about one hour after the accident visibility was 6 Km. I do not ermeber the rest   For whatever reason a few moments after this, they stopped broadcasting the ATIS message on 127,65  

Oh, also I believe KMDW is about 600 feet ASL while SBSP is about 2500ft ASL (can´t find the chart  Sad )

[Edited 2007-07-18 02:07:03]
727-200, 737-300/700/800, 757-200, 767-200/300/400, A310, A319, A320, A330, MD-88, MD-11, DC-8-73F, F100, ERJ145, CRJ200
 
b757300
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:04 am

I'll pop in from self imposed exile.

http://www.cnn.com/video/live/live.html?stream=stream1

CNN is streaming live video. Works in IE but I couldn't get it to work in Firefox.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
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KPDX
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:04 am

Oh great, it ruins my day when things like this happen.  Sad Plus makes my slight fear of flying even worse....

Lets hope for survivors and RIP to the victims.

KPDX
 
loalq
Posts: 209
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:07 am

Quoting PPSMA (Reply 67):
Hi everybody!

This is to try and give those who are not familiar with the area of the airport AN IDEA of where the A320 crashed!

Great graph, PPSMA, thanks for it. Seems that the aircraft actually turned left while trying to stop (or to takeoff again, maybe?).
"...this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped."
 
AF086
Posts: 582
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:09 am

Quoting Cmtehori (Reply 32):
It is, just called JJ ops the only thing the wanted to tell me is that it was JJ3054 PT-MBK

It was indeed PR-MBK arriving from POA as flight JJ3054. On board 170 adult passengers, 1 baby and crew.

God bless the souls who perished.

Also it's important to note that yesterday a Pantanal ATR42 skidded of the runway ending the the grass.
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
loalq
Posts: 209
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:14 am

Just in: Inside the Airbus 155 pax + 6 crew + 14 TAM employees = 175 total confirmed by TAM. Lets hope for the best...

[Edited 2007-07-18 02:16:59]
"...this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped."
 
amritpal
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:14 am

thoughts and prayers for the passengers.
Lost in Translation
 
vbeltraJJ
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:17 am

Just to say...JJMNGR used to work into this building....someone got any news?
 
BNinMSY
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:17 am

My thoughts and prayers with those onboard and their families/friends.
Truly sad.

Also, remembering this day in history and those aboard TW #800.
 
Jj
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:17 am

http://www.clarin.com has some video footage... in spanish...
 
cmd777300er
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:18 am

What I find interesting is that ULMFlyer, post 61, says that the runway was 6362 ft. long and MDW's is 6446 ft long. MDW lands 757-300s, which are bigger and heavier to stop than the A320.
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jonathan Derden - Spot This!

I know it's already a tight squeeze at MDW for big aircraft. So this could suggest that the runway at CGH does not provide adequate traction when wet as one of the factors.
 
cmtehori
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:18 am

Quoting AF086 (Reply 75):
It was indeed PR-MBK

 checkmark 

Thanks for the correction AF086 you´re 100% right!

A little bit more information about this particular jet

It was delivered to TACA on 03/25/1998 as F-WWDT by Airbus and had it´s registration changed to N454TA.
On 12/03/2003 it was leased by Pacific Airlines as VN-A168 and finally delivered to TAM on 01/04/2007 as PR-MBK

This Airbus is IAE powered, and all dates are on MM/DD/YYYY format!

Best
Carlos
727-200, 737-300/700/800, 757-200, 767-200/300/400, A310, A319, A320, A330, MD-88, MD-11, DC-8-73F, F100, ERJ145, CRJ200
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:19 am

Quoting CMD777300ER (Reply 81):
So this could suggest that the runway at CGH does not provide adequate traction when wet as one of the factors.

Isn't it a bit early to be suggesting factors?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
cmd777300er
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:24 am

Starlionblue,

Isn't it just natural to wonder how it happened?
 
richm
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Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:21 pm

RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:24 am

Quoting LGA777 (Reply 15):

Another photo of PR-MBK when it was with Pacific Airlines as VN-A168. (assuming this aircraft was the actual aircraft involved)

MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Hai Trieu Pham Lam



Lets hope it's not as bad as it sounds.
 
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LuisKMIA
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:25 am

Very sad.

A few months ago, GOL's 737s were banned from landing in rainy weather because of concerns of skidding/overshoorting. I've used congnhas and Santos Dumont in the past, and the short runways leave little room for error.

Luis
KMIA
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:25 am

Quoting CMD777300ER (Reply 84):
Starlionblue,

Isn't it just natural to wonder how it happened?

Fair enough. And I must admit you didn't come out and say something like "The crash was caused by..." No doubt the news media has already beaten us to that one.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:26 am

Up to now, reports from press says all survivors are from the building but need to be confirmed.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
KSYR
Posts: 562
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:27 am

Lets hope for the best...certainly doesn't look good though. CNN was live-feeding in a Brazilian TV news station on its website as part of its crash coverage. When I tuned in to the Brazilian station, they were covering an unrelated story about Al Qaeda in the US!
 
loalq
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:24 pm

RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:29 am

As a side info, Pantanal flight 4763 skidded off the same runway earlier this week (without fatalities). It is said that the cause was PERHAPS that at least two tires blew on touchdown, though.
"...this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped."
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:32 am

Quoting LuisKMIA (Reply 86):
A few months ago, GOL's 737s were banned from landing in rainy weather because of concerns of skidding/overshoorting. I've used congnhas and Santos Dumont in the past, and the short runways leave little room for error.

SDU in fact is far safe than CGH because they are very well grooved. Even become the shorter one, this fact besides it's located limited by the sea, and in case of rain it's closed.

Quoting VbeltraJJ (Reply 78):
Just to say...JJMNGR used to work into this building....someone got any news?

Are you sure ? I expect he works on the JJ HQ. Hope he's safe at home or even at MAD / FRA working on the next long haul stations.

My friend VBeltraJJ, my condolences to all JJ staff on this sad day.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
vbeltraJJ
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:13 am

RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:36 am

At least, the last time I saw him working, he used to work at this building. I had other friends working there. I used to work at hangar II and we have also hangar VII in CGH. Very sad.....no more words...thanks..
 
lmpinto
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:03 am

RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:37 am

Television reports TAM informed 156 passengers, 6 crew and 14 dead-heading TAM personnel were on the plane. At least 3 casualties from the building; 10 people rescued alive.

[Edited 2007-07-18 03:03:44]
 
usatoeze
Posts: 348
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:38 am

This is indeed a sad day for aviation. My condolences to all the passenger's familes, and all of those affiiliated with the excellent airline TAM and the great nation of Brazil.
War is a very poor political tool
 
FMAL
Posts: 469
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:42 am

I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but I'm not going to read through 91 posts, but I must speak my mind.

Finally, the overwhelming corruption and negligence that has ruled INFRAERO from day one has killed around 200 people. A extremely sad day, but one that was announced, as yesterday a Pantanal ATR slid off the runway. They have wasted around R$ 20 million on NOT resolving the 17R/35L rwy problem at CGH. They cleared the rwy without completing the very same renovation it was closed for to begin with....174 dead.

The time has come for us Brazilian to say "enough" to all this b***shit that rules our daily lives every single day. Its corruption everywhere, things not getting done, overwhelming taxes and no services at all, now the corruption (that claimed countless lives on the chaotic healthcare system we have) has not claimed yet more lives on aviation, on a accident maybe worse than the Gol 1907.

May God be with the victims of this tragedy and their families, and may He bring Justice to those responsible and accountable for this horrible work of negligence.
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:45 am

Quoting Hoya (Reply 68):
BBC World aren't coverning either

BBC is now reporting it

BBC

Glad to see Globo News is available in English.

Here's some info on CGH (although, the site says the "information may not be accurate or current"  irked  ).

-R
Living the American Dream
 
barney captain
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:46 am

MSNBC is looking at the red a white lettering that reads "TAM Express" and stating that it's the fuselage and that there must be many survivors........I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think they're seeing the fuselage. Didn't the impact happen at a building marked as "TAM Express"?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19815779/
Southeast Of Disorder
 
TreeHillRavens
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:01 pm

RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:48 am

TAM Airlines Representative told CNN reporter that there are 175 people onboard.
- 6 crew
- 14 TAM employees
- 155 passengers
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5063
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:48 am

The building collapsed...

 Sad
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
PYP757
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:57 am

RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:55 am

Quoting Barney Captain (Reply 97):
MSNBC is looking at the red a white lettering that reads "TAM Express" and stating that it's the fuselage and that there must be many survivors........I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think they're seeing the fuselage. Didn't the impact happen at a building marked as "TAM Express"?

Looking at this picture, there does not appear to be much fuselage left intact. Just part of the tail.
Looks hopeless to me.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/pla...port/2007/07/18/1184559822593.html

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