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Acey
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:01 pm

Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 197):
With the WTC crashes the planes were absolutely packed with fuel, as the crashes occurred at the start of trans-con flights.

Certainly. I'm just doing a quick approximation in my head, but all four flights probably took off with well over 55,000 pounds of fuel for their 5+ hour journeys. At least the two 762's did. Now, a sizable amount of that would have burned off before the evil deeds were done, but a number of experts have contributed the weaking of the WTC steel to the excessive quantities of Jet-A.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
etops1
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:08 pm

the sw 737 that skidded off the runway was not in las . it was in burbank california. by the way. my condolences to the families of the people involved in this crash . and a very speacial thought to the airline staff at tam from your friends at usairways . we know exactly what your going through . we had some tough times back in 1995 ourselves.
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:10 pm

An unfortunate event for the industry and the families involved. I wish the relatives and friends of the deceased well.
 
PPVRA
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:10 pm

The flight was to continue onwards from CGH without refueling, so there must have been a considerable amount of fuel on board.

That, of course, makes the plane heavier too. . .

[Edited 2007-07-18 06:12:37]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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Acey
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:10 pm

Quoting Tonytifao (Reply 167):
What time was the incident?

18:50 local time, or 20:50 GMT, or 16:40 EDT.

Quoting Eddieho (Reply 172):
I was on the Air France 358 plane cash - same thing, but everyone survived

We definitely don't know if it's the "same thing" yet. In no way am I trying to discount your knowledge of 358 since you probably know the best of all of us as you were onboard, but circumstances of this particular crash are way too early to speculate upon.

Quoting Elvis777 (Reply 199):
This does appear to be similar to the WN 737 that skidded of the runway at LAS. I believe it was raining and the bird came to a stop within 50 meters of a gas station. I believe that was a pilot error and the two in command were promtly let go by WN....It is too early to tell here, after grieving the business of accident investigation will start and we will soon get an answer but..... there are some similarities

Maybe it's best you not even comment on that crash since, as mentioned by Etops1, it occured at BUR, not LAS.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:16 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 193):
I was just about to post this as well. When airports are located in the middle of populated areas there is little margin for error. The LAPA accident was almost the same, except that in that case the plane was not landing but was taking off and did not manage to gain altitude and went straight down the rwy and crossed a major avenue until it finally crashed into a golf course. Luckily the LAPA plane missed a nearby gas station.

Even at an airport in the middle of the desert if you skid off the runway you are in trouble. Sure there will probably be no ground casualties but still.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 193):
As someone mentioned earlier downtown located airports have advantages, but the disadvantages are too big of a risk IMO. Airports need to be as far away as possible from dense population.

Nice thought. Unfortunately for practical reasons this is not possible. And let's be fair. How many crashes are there really compared to the huge number of flights? Life is full of risk and I bet more people die in car accidents every day in Brazil than in this crash. Maybe money should be focused on that problem instead?

Quoting Donzilasse (Reply 196):

It is a tragic day and it is just so unnecessary! If just Infraero would have improved the conditions at CGH this would not have had to happen!

We cannot possibly know anything like that.

Quoting Dudubsb (Reply 200):
Government officials speculate whether the accident was caused by the runway or by some problem with the aircraft

Gee. Talk about casting a wide net. And this is classic "government official" who should be saying "we don't know at this time" instead of speculating without information.

Quoting Dudubsb (Reply 200):
According to the Commander of the Brazilian Air Force, tower employees have confirmed that the aircraft landed on the correct segment of the runway, but somehow did not manage to reduce its speed.

First of all, what is the Commander of the Air Force doing commenting on the accident at this stage? Secondly, such reports need to be corroborated and checked. Granted, these are expert eye witnesses but at this stage nothing is certain.

[Edited 2007-07-18 06:18:52]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
PPVRA
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:18 pm



I haven't read this in any big newspapers, but apparently the pilots did try to abort landing (they stated it as "confirmed").
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:20 pm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 208):
I haven't read this in any big newspapers, but apparently the pilots did try to abort landing (they stated it as "confirmed").

Interesting wrinkle. However "confirmed" by the media a few hours after the accident normally means "not really confirmed". I know I am cynical but we have seen this sort of thing before.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
KLM685
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:25 pm

What a sad thing! RIP to everyone involved in this accident. I just got home and saw the images on the main news program here in Mexico. I was shocked when I saw TAM and CGH being involved.

Such a shame! I've been to CGH twice and think it's a great airport, but dangerous as to where is located...


Hope our a.net member from the building is safe!
KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:26 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 207):
Even at an airport in the middle of the desert if you skid off the runway you are in trouble. Sure there will probably be no ground casualties but stull.

Of course, but when skidding off the rwy, the greater the number of obstacles the greater the chances of the plane catching fire and blowing up. Look at the AF flight. If that would have happened with an avenue or a building at the end of the rwy, chances are that there would have been casualties, both from the aircraft as well as from the ground. There is always a risk, the point is to keep it as low as possible. Yesterday the same thing happened at CGH, just with a smaller aircraft so it was just a scare cause the plane did not go into the avenue outside the airport, but twice in two days? That's got to be a cause for concern and for measures to be taken.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 207):
Life is full of risk and I bet more people die in car accidents every day in Brazil than in this crash. Maybe money should be focused on that problem instead?

Instead or to both? Put money on roads, but put money on air safety as well.

regards
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
TrijetsRMissed
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:27 pm

What a sad day for aviation and Brazil. An unfortunate past year for Brazil for that matter. I would much rather be reading posts that were reminiscing about TW 800 than a new tragedy on this day. God bless them all and may they rest in peace.

AOL is reporting that Governor Jose Serra has stated "I was told that the temperature inside the plane was 1,000 degrees (1,830 Fahrenheit), so the chances of there being any survivors are practically nil."

So for those of you who are underestimating the stupidity of building a gas station near the end of a runway, (and I know this is not only in Brazil) there's your answer..
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
PPVRA
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:30 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 209):

Interesting wrinkle. However "confirmed" by the media a few hours after the accident normally means "not really confirmed". I know I am cynical but we have seen this sort of thing before.

Agree, but it's a defense news-site a bit more technically inclined. But we'll see. . .
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Mir
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:32 pm

Quite a tragedy. RIP to those who were lost.  Sad

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 56):
Foxnews just said this was an accident waiting to happen due to "short runways" of "only 8,500 to 9,000 feet". And they presented this as fact, not speculation.

 Yeah sure FoxNews is based in New York. If that's how they feel about 8,500-9,000ft runways, I hope they're never putting their people on flights out of LGA with its 7,000ft runways. JFK routinely lands 747s on an 8400ft runway, in bad weather (in fact, that's JFK's only CatIII runway - wonder what the people at Fox would think of that).

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 63):
Serious question....aren't minimums changed for grooved/non grooved runways.....ie wouldn't this recently reopened runway left ungrooved have higher minimums when wet because of it.....can anyone tell if a notam to that effect was issued?

The landing distances (which shouldn't be confused with minimums, those are something else) would be higher for a wet non-grooved runway than for a wet grooved runway, yes.

Quoting Skoker (Reply 116):
"Incident" in US English means the same as "event" or occurrence. Both a plane crashing into an ocean and a flight running out of Diet Coke are considered to be "Incident"s in our language.

The NTSB has specific terminology as to what is an incident - something that is abnormal but does not result in damage or injury. This would be termed an "accident".

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 128):
There is a concept called "decision height". At this point in the approach the pilot flying needs to decide whether to land or go around.

Not quite. Decision height is the point on an instrument approach at which you either see the runway and continue, or you don't and you go around. You can go around for any reason at any time (and you should if things aren't right) until you're on the ground with the speedbrakes and/or reversers deployed (even then, it's still possible if you have a lot of runway, but really not a good idea at that point), even if you're below decision height.

Quoting Acey (Reply 190):
Did fuel play a part here? Well, I'm not even going to say anything because no one knows anything yet...we'll just have to wait and see.

I don't see how it didn't play at least a minor part. A landing A320 should have at least 4,000lbs of fuel on it, and while that's very little compared to what it would have at takeoff, it can still burn for a while. And if it did go into a gas station....

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Ward86IND
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:32 pm

Looks to me like this crash is the result a lot of untimely factors adding up, like most other crashes. You have an A320 that has to be near max landing weight with 174 people on board and enough fuel for the next leg, a very short runway, pounding rain, and apparently the runway doesn't have grooves for drainage. Take out any of these factors and this crash probably would not have happened...I seriously doubt a mechanical problem on the plane, but of course this is just speculation. Very unfortunate.
Live your dream.
 
3201
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:33 pm

Quoting BravoGolf (Reply 140):
Seems like everyone is blaming the airport operator for not grooving the runway. If I was reading the posts correctly, the runway was just repaved. If the pavement is asphalt, it cannot be grooved for several months after it was laid because it is still too soft and the saw blades will not cut correctly and gum up.

There's a NOTAM out for CGH:

J0872/07 - RWY 17L/35R CLSD DUE SER GROOVING 18 JUL 03:00 2007 UNTIL 22 JUL 09:00 2007 JUL 18 0300/0830 19 TIL 22 0200/0900

that looks like they're planning to groove the other runway over the next few days? Does anyone know whether this was already planned, when the NOTAM was issued, etc.?

[Edited 2007-07-18 06:33:54]
7 hours aint long-haul
 
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Acey
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:35 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 214):
I don't see how it didn't play at least a minor part. A landing A320 should have at least 4,000lbs of fuel on it, and while that's very little compared to what it would have at takeoff, it can still burn for a while. And if it did go into a gas station....

Someone said it was tankering for an onward flight. I suppose we just don't know yet.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:42 pm

TAM has just released the list....

http://www.taminforma.com.br/noticia.aspx?id=1418

In the end seems to be the list of TAM staff on board.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
PPSMA
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:43 pm

Hi everybody,

In a time like this when we all are still trying to make out some sense of this senseless, tragic accident I wanted to point out that I feel comforted that at least I´m able to share my sadness and shock with you all, who like me, are praying for the souls of those who died.

Here are 2 photos of the accident. I look at them and still cannot believe it.

Cheers,


Big version: Width: 1190 Height: 884 File size: 50kb
An aerial view of the accident. You can see RWY 17R on the lefthand side of the photo.


Big version: Width: 1190 Height: 884 File size: 41kb
tHIS IS THE a320 TAIL SEEN FROM THE STREET
Aviation is my thing!
 
NAV20
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:54 pm

Agree that there are likely to have been a combination of circumstances, and that there is far too little information available to make any judgments.

However, according to this report there may eventually be more information available about this accident than most - in the shape of an actual FILM of the landing:-

"Sao Paulo's governor refused to speculate on the causes of the accident but suggested the plane had attempted to take off again after skidding on the runway.

"The runway is filmed the whole time. When we have the images we will have a clearer idea of what happened. From what we can tell the plane made an attempt to take off again," Mr Serra said."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2128993,00.html
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
cloudyapple
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:56 pm

Quoting 3201 (Reply 216):
There's a NOTAM out for CGH:

Questions for the investigators:

Was this runway on which the plane skidded grooved after resurfacing?
Was there a NOTAM or AIP SUP about the condition of the runway surface?
Did the tower/air controller warn the pilots of wet runway and standing puddles and ungrooved runway?
Why was there a fuel depot right at the end of the runway?
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
andrewuber
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:59 pm

Quoting LGA777 (Reply 15):



Quoting Interpaul (Reply 42):

Why was this photo removed from the database??

Our thoughts and prayers are with those families tonight.
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
TACAA320
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:02 pm

"

SAO PAULO, Brazil -- Scores of people apparently were killed Tuesday in the crash of a Brazilian airliner at Sao Paulo's airport.

The Tam airlines jet with 176 people aboard crashed and burst into flames after landing in driving rain. It slammed into two buildings.

A governor said chances are "practically nil" that anyone survived the crash because of intense flames...

"

http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/news...tmi=hon_natlbreak_1_09190107172007
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
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Acey
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:04 pm

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 223):
Why was this photo removed from the database??

Answer:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 134):
The shot was removed at the request of the photographer.



Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 222):
Was this runway on which the plane skidded grooved after resurfacing?

I believe that has been answered already and the answer is no, because several months must pass before the runway is hard enough (after being repaved) to be grooved.

[Edited 2007-07-18 07:06:04]
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
NAV20
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:07 pm

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 222):
Why was there a fuel depot right at the end of the runway?

Cloudyapple, see PPSMA's very helpful Post 67 and Google Earth image above. The final crash was well to the left of the runway line - actually in line with the taxiway, NOT the runway.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
andrewuber
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:07 pm

Quoting Acey (Reply 225):

I apologize, I didn't see that, thanks for clarifying.
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
AirTranTUS
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:12 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 177):
"Heavy rain" is a highly subjective term. Water in itself is not an issue, but traction on a runway is. Winds are much more of a risk factor in any case.

Exactly. The AA MD-80 overrun at LIT in 2001 (?) had the fact that the pilots did not deploy the spoilers as a main cause. The plane was moving too quickly and hydroplaning and still producing too much lift for the tires to grip. Wheel braking is a significant and vital portion of deceleration.

The AF example was also pilot error, landing too far down the runway and not being able to stop instead of going around.

Water doesn't pose a problem as long as all other protocols are followed. If something is forgotten, disaster can strike. We do not know anything about the crews' actions in this incident yet so we cannot speculate about them. We do know that the runway was ungrooved and it was raining at the time, not a good combination. Should the airport have been open in such a condition? Should the pilots have decided not to land? These questions will hopefully be answered in the investigation and action taken to prevent further accidents like this.
I love ASO!
 
kaitak
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:12 pm

PT-MBK seems to have been a very new aircraft; not listed in 2007 JP? When was it delivered?

With regard to the ban imposed by the Brazilian judge, I thought that had been overturned by the Brazilian CAA, on the grounds that it was they who were responsible for air safety. No doubt yesterday evening's tragedy will be used to push for a ban on all jet aircraft?
 
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teme82
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:13 pm

This is indeed sad day for aviation in Brazil. RIP to those who lost their lives on this terrible accident. I do hope that there is proper investigation to the causes of this crash and people responsible are put to trial.
Flying high and low
 
miamix707
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:37 pm

Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 154):
Why would someone build a gas station near the end of a runway? so sad....

The gas station in Le Jeune Rd next to MIA is near the end of runway 8R. IIRC it's slightly to the right but still close enough.

Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 158):
The order from Judge Ronald Carvalho Filho of the 22nd federal court in Sao Paulo comes less than two weeks before the carnival holiday, raising the possibility of delays and cancellations. He banned Fokker-100 and Boeing Co. 737-700 and 737-800 jets from the Congonhas airport after several cases of planes skidding on landing.

So the F100s, 737s are banned. Why not the Airbuses?


Hopefully it ended very quickly for the pax!  Sad
 
kaitak
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:47 pm

PT-MBK, A320-233 is LN 789, previously operated by TACA as N454TA (delivered March 1998). Also served for a time with Pacific Airlines of Vietnam.

Delivered to TAM in December 2006.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon

 
emrecan
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:51 pm

What a bad news to start a day  Sad
I've just heard this bad news.. RIP to all people on board...
 
PDXflyer31
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:52 pm

Wow, what a horrible crash. I can't think of another crash in history that was this deadly on landing. Just horrible.
 
TACAA320
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:53 pm

Quoting LGA777 (Reply 15):
If it was MBK then this would be an very interesting photo !

When I try to expand this picture I got the following legend: "There is no photo in our database with that ID number."

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 232):
previously operated by TACA as N454TA (delivered March 1998).

I flew such plane several times. That's really sad that so many people are presume dead.

Another sad page has been written in aviation history.

[Edited 2007-07-18 07:57:50]
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
ULMFlyer
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:58 pm

Just to dispel the AF 358 @ YYZ scenario, this was the (summarized) METAR around the time of the accident (19:00 local, 22:00Z):

Temp (C/F) 15 (59 ); Dew Point 14 (57 ); Pressure (Inches/hPa) 30.06 (1018); Winds (mph/km/h) N 9 (14); light rain
Let's go Pens!
 
DeC
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:59 pm

Most awful news to start off the day......so sad. R.I.P to all the victims involved.

Here's the BBC news' article with PHOTOS

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6903837.stm
DEC
 
TACAA320
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:00 pm

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 235):

When I try to expand this picture I got the following legend: "There is no photo in our database with that ID number."

Deleted at photographer request.
What Happened To This TAM 320 Photo? (by D L X Jul 18 2007 in Site Related)
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
PPSMA
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:07 pm

Here´s a link to a short computer animation of the accident:

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/cotidiano/ult95u312781.shtml

Cheers!
Aviation is my thing!
 
RAFVC10
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:09 pm

God bless their souls!

Let's pray for the death passengers, for the hurted people and for all families that today will start again their lives without one or more of their members.

R.I.P.

Gerard
El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
 
Mir
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:15 pm

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 238):
Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 235):

When I try to expand this picture I got the following legend: "There is no photo in our database with that ID number."

Deleted at photographer request.

Unfortunate, but understandable. You never know where those things can turn up - it wouldn't be surprising if someone tried to pass it off as a photo taken right before the crash.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
TACAA320
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:22 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 241):
Unfortunate, but understandable.

Absolutely right.

Quoting Mir (Reply 241):
You never know where those things can turn up - it wouldn't be surprising if someone tried to pass it off as a photo taken right before the crash.

That's definitely a high possibility.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
USAFHummer
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:42 pm

Quoting ULMFlyer (Reply 39):

CGH is like an aircraft carrier where the sea is the city. At the end of the runways there's nowhere to go except down the embankment towards the buildings/houses.


Quoting PPSMA (Reply 67):
This is to try and give those who are not familiar with the area of the airport AN IDEA of where the A320 crashed!

Just wondering, how far of a drop / how steep is the drop between the end of the runway and the base of the warehouse and gas station where the A320 hit?

Thanks in advance.

[Edited 2007-07-18 08:43:25]
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Toulouse
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:50 pm

My God, what awful news. May all the dead Rest In Peace and let our prayers and best wishes be with the families and fiends of all those killed and injured in this awful accident.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
DeC
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RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:54 pm

" Brazilian plane crash 'kills 200'

Firefighters tackle a blaze after a jet crashes in Sao Paulo
The plane skidded across a main road before hitting a fuel depot
Up to 200 people have been killed after a passenger plane crashed and burst into flames at Brazil's busiest airport, in the heart of Sao Paulo. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6903837.stm


Very, very sad.

[Edited 2007-07-18 08:55:14]
DEC
 
EK345
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:12 pm

RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:54 pm

RIP. May they all rest with the angels.

EK345
"and miles to go before I sleep..."
 
cricket
Posts: 2115
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:23 pm

RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:01 pm

RIP to all the victims...

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 228):
Water doesn't pose a problem as long as all other protocols are followed. If something is forgotten, disaster can strike. We do not know anything about the crews' actions in this incident yet so we cannot speculate about them. We do know that the runway was ungrooved and it was raining at the time, not a good combination.

Landing on a wet runway during heavy rain when you can literally feel the tires struggling for grip and the thrust reversers blowing water onto the fuselage is not a very pleasant experience. Gone through several such experiences thanks to teh monsoons here, BOM and CCU are particularly hairy!
been there, flown that
 
haddock0815
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:57 pm

RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:02 pm

News today on German Yahoo!:

http://de.news.yahoo.com/ap/20070718...-170-tote-bei-flugz-1be00ca_1.html

Experten haben schon länger gewarnt, dass es bei Regen zu einem solchen Unfall kommen könnte, weil die Landebahn des Flughafens Congonhas in Sao Paulo bei Nässe für die Landung großer Maschinen zu kurz sei. Ein Bundesgericht untersagte im Februar aus Sicherheitsgründen Starts und Landungen großer Flugzeuge. Ein Berufungsgericht hob diese Entscheidung wegen der wirtschaftlichen Konsequenzen für den Flughafen jedoch wieder auf.

I try to translate this:

Experts have warned for a longer time that such a crash could happen at rain because the runway is too short for bigger planes at such wheather conditions. In February a federal court banned take offs and landings of bigger planes due to security reasons, an appellate court overruled this decicion due to commercial consequenzes for the airport.

No comment.

haddock0815
 
ULMFlyer
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:39 am

RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:20 pm

Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 243):
Just wondering, how far of a drop / how steep is the drop between the end of the runway and the base of the warehouse and gas station where the A320 hit?

I don't know the details, but this photo might give you an idea.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Renato Viani

Let's go Pens!
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4961
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:20 pm

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20070717-0
Claim 15 bystanders killed on the ground.
May all whom lost their lives rest in peace..
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:24 pm

Quoting ULMFlyer (Reply 249):

I don't know the details, but this photo might give you an idea.

Thanks...very helpful!! The overhead shots on Google Earth don't really provide any clue of the vertical dimension, but that pic puts it in perspective perfectly...
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2365
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

RE: TAM Plane Crashed In CGH

Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:57 pm

Shocking, my thoughts fo to all those who have lost their loved ones.

The story seems to have missed all the early additions of the press over here but already some news reports are stating that TAM has a "bad" safety record citing 7 fatal crashes since 1979.

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