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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:13 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 17):
MD-80
How many are leased?
-Potential future use for


According to the latest ATW World Airline Report Alitalia has 29 out 74 total MD-82's leased
G4 anyone?
72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
 
VictorKilo
Posts: 242
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:26 am

Quoting HT (Reply 36):
www.planespotters.net list 4 of AZ's B777-243ER with Irish reg', the other 6 with Italian reg. The Irish one should be leased without no doubt, no clue on the Italy-registered ones.

B763's ER, with different customer codes. 7 are registered in Ireland, 6 in Italy

According to SC's Airliner Lists, the six Italian registered 777's (I-DISA, I-DISB, I-DISD, I-DISE, I-DISO, and I-DISU) are owned by Alitalia. The four Irish registered 777's (EI-DBL, EI-DBH, EI-DBK, EI-DBM), as well as two of the Irish registered 767's (EI-CRL and EI-CRM) are owned by GECAS. OF the five other Irish registered 767's, three are owned by IFLC (EI-CRF, EI-CRD, and EI-CRO), one by Pegasus (EI-DDW), and one by CIT (EI-DBP). The six Italian registered 767's (I-DEIB, I-DEIC, I-DEID, I-DEIF, I-DEIG, and I-DEIL) appear to be owned by AWAS, although I-DEIL may have been bought by Alitalia.

One of the AWAS 767's, I-DEIB, is listed as going to new VARIG as PR-VAG in February 2008. In the event of an Alitalia liquidation, I would expect that new VARIG would try to pick up leases on many of these 767's, to quickly use the route authorities they got from old VARIG.
 
af773atmsp
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:22 am

Could Blue Panorama replace AZ if AZ liquidates?
DC10-40,MD88,A319,A320,A332,717,722,733,737,738,752,ATR-72,736,788
SY,DL,FI,FL,BA,EI,NW,MG,DY,EZY,F9,WN,SN,ET,SK
Too many airports to fit in signature.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:24 am

Quoting Tsaord (Reply 49):
How can a countries primary carrier just stop operations?

Remember Sabena?

Someone will step into the void left by AZ but they won't have to worry about the debt or the employees from AZ. There is a market maybe not for a true hub at both FCO and MXP but both cities can support significant service within Europe and to the US; service to other continents might be pushing it from both hubs.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:25 am

Quoting Tsaord (Reply 49):
How can a countries primary carrier just stop operations?

Remember Sabena?

Someone will step into the void left by AZ but they won't have to worry about the debt or the employees from AZ. There is a market maybe not for a true hub at both FCO and MXP but both cities can support significant service within Europe and to the US; service to other continents might be pushing it from both hubs.
 
Pope
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:26 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 16):
Can't the Pope buy it off?

Not interested.  Wink
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
galapagapop
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:31 am

Quoting HT (Reply 41):
MD82 I-DAWA l/n 1126 completed on 19-OCT-1983

Certainly old, but not bad, wonder if AA would want to pick a few MD80's from AZ if they are young enough to replace some of their eldest birds, does AZ still call them Super 80's like AA or was that dropped many moons ago?
 
art
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:38 am

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 28):
I hope they don't liquidate...I do think someone will come in and purchase them.
LH or AF I'm guessing.

Who do you know who wants to throw away a few hunded million euros a year?

Quoting Comeflywithme (Reply 31):
Best thing is to liquidate and start again. Employing new staff and management with the right attitude under profit making terms and conditions.

Could work. Current offer can't work.

Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 32):
the government will bail them out (subject to EU rules)

EU rules prevent this.

Quoting CURLYHEADBOY (Reply 42):
1) the government concedes a fair deal to possible customers and let them proceed to major job cuts, and get the unions seriously pissed, facing rallies, strikes and so on.

Who do you know who wants to buy a business that is then immediately crippled by strikes?

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 44):
AZ are losing 2M euro per day. Concentrating hub operations out of MXP might limit the losses to 1M euro per day, but that is a political no-no.

Short of making strikes illegal, liquidation is the best option.

Do you know of a government that has legislated against strikes in a single company? I think that would be illegal under EU rules.
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:52 am

Arrivederci. Lousy airline. Rude, incompetent staff (except for the pilots), bloated state sponsored dinosaur.

Alitalia may have a proud legacy but it is one crap heap of an airline.
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:57 am

Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 58):
incompetent staff (except for the pilots

Thet's the most ignorant remark I have seen i a long, long time ....  goldmedal 
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:02 am

I predict GOL might be interested in the T7's or AM. DL and CO have a good shot.

The MD11's will most likely go to FX or UPS.

The MD80's might and could go to G4 unless someone else wants them.

The Airbus fleet will probaly be disposed between multiple carriers.

The 767's well, everyone wants them so maybe LOT, Flyglobespan, or even DL would take them. Would MaxJet put in a bid for them?

The ERJ's is anyones guess.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
IFlyATA
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:04 am

I thought I just read the other day about MatlinPatterson still wanting AZ.

*EDIT* Here: http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKN1827283920070718?rpc=44

[Edited 2007-07-20 03:05:14]
ATA - an honestly different airline.
 
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LTU932
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:07 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 60):
The MD11's will most likely go to FX or UPS.

Like I said in my previous post, because of the rear side cargo door all of AZ's MD-11 Freighters have, it will be difficult to find any buyers or leasees for them. Just remember that when AZ was trying to sell them to LH for LCAG, LH didn't want them at all because of this. Even at FX and 5X, the rear side cargo door would make them big oddballs with the rest of the fleet, so personally, I think they could end up in the desert for a while.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
art
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:41 am

Comments from Italy's Infrastructure minister Antonio di Pietro reported on BBC business website:

"It should be sold for even one euro if we find anyone willing to revive it or we need to let it file for bankruptcy," Mr di Pietro stressed.

"To have a loss-making flag carrier is absurd. When something is diseased, you need to amputate it."

Source: http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6907275.stm
 
MCOflyer
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:44 am

Hell, I'll buy it one euro. Just let me be president. They need to focus on domestic runs first with the exception of NYC, MIA, and Tokyo.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
Halophila
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:08 pm

I just got a reimbursement cheque for some expenses incurred in August 2006 - it took forever to pursue a claim for them. Initially ignored, I finally had to go through official EC passenger claims, which involved getting in touch with ENAC in Italy. Back in May I heard they were going to send me a cheque - this Monday I received it. My god I hope it clears by the time they liquidate.

Truly a shabby operation IMO at the top. But the f/a's are some of the most attractive that's for sure!!  Smile
Flown on A36 310 319 320 321 332 333 343 388 350 707 717 727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 743 744 74SP 757 753 762 763 772 773 77W 787 D10 DC9 M11 M80 M87 CRJ CR7 CR9 CR1000 120 135 145 175 190 146 F28 F50 F70 F100 Tristar
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:23 pm

Quoting Zone1 (Reply 48):
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 27):
Remove UA and DL off the list. Those T7s are GE90 powered,

DL still might consider picking them up since they will be getting GE90 powered 777LRs starting in February. They might really consider them as interim lift for ATL-PVG before the new 777s come on board.

While the 772LR is a GE90, it's the 110B1 at 110,100 lb thrust, not the same engine as the GE90-94B at 94,0900lb thrust.
I can't see why DL would pick up a few of AZ aircraft to have another subfleet of 777's. DL would then have three fairly small subfleets of 777's, 8 772ER's with one engine, ?AZ 772ER's with GE90-94 and 6 772LRs with GE90-110.
 
PanHAM
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:41 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 64):
Hell, I'll buy it one euro. Just let me be president. They need to focus on domestic runs first with the exception of NYC, MIA, and Tokyo.

you would not be happy if the Italian State gives it to you for free and puts a Billion Euros on top of it. That money would be eaten up in latest 2 years.

I said that before in earlier threads - no one needs AZ, other European Airlines and the dpomestic competetors can pick up the routes and the pilots and F/Asshould look for jobs in the Gulf or in China, whereb they are put into jail if the try to spell the word strike.

These people have flown AZ into the ground and they don't deserve anything better..
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
scotron11
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:39 pm

Most, if not all, aircraft in their fleet was used as collateral for a loan they received from Bank of New York last year. Also the conditions that the Italian government placed on the sale probably made it impossible for anyone to make a viable operation going forward.

The EU is watching like a hawk that no more government money is used to keep them going.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:56 pm

Quoting Art (Reply 57):
Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 28):
I hope they don't liquidate...I do think someone will come in and purchase them.
LH or AF I'm guessing.

Who do you know who wants to throw away a few hunded million euros a year?

IMHO, LH would do what they may do with BD (A big finacial investmant, I hope!) with Air One. Let AZ be liquidated and then invest in Air One, to allow them to expand, picking up the pieces of AZ, routes, airctraft etc. Why anybody would now actually want to touch AZ is beyond me.
 
Burkhard
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:08 pm

We did not discuss the political dimension of this. In Italy, inner politics are left versus Berlusconi ( correct me if I'm wrong ). Berlusconi stretched the law ( as usual with him) in prolongation of the Altitalia life, Now the new government, looking to be stable for the next months ( not so usual in Italy ) can do the job and have something new shiny showing up when the next unavoidable early election comes.

Of course, they want one of the majors to come and rescue - but I believe there is no chance to break up the structures inside AZ. So I think LH already is orting out which 737s to give to AP to take over the island connections. And they have some A343 ( the non X ones ) that will be replaced by 333/346 - give them to AP,JK,SR? - nothing that costs too much and risks too much...
 
Asiaflyer
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:20 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 20):
The former Pope flew on Concorde a couple of times. He even had one AF Concorde chartered on his visits to the islands of the Indian Ocean



Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 25):
All of the Pope's trips from the US to Italy were on TWA, except for one trip in the mid 1990s when he took AA.

In the early 1980s, when Pope John Paul II made the first visit by a Pope to England in hundreds of years, he flew home on British Caledonian, not BA.



Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 19):
Also notice that the Pope has been using an Alitalia 767-300 lately, and an Alitalia A319 lately vs the usual Alitalia 747(in years past), and 777.

It does not seem to bring any holy strenght to have the Pope onboard!!
Soon maybe only AA left to fly with among the the carriers/planes mentioned above.
 angel   angel 
 
HowSwedeitis
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:33 pm

You know when Aeroflot is looking to buy you, you are in trouble....  indifferent 
Heja Sverige!!
 
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Vasu
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:10 pm


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Diego Ruiz de Vargas - Iberian Spotters



Ryanair must have a huge smile on its face right now!
 
art
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:23 pm

Quoting Vasu (Reply 73):
Ryanair must have a huge smile on its face right now!

Does Ryanair stand to gain more routes if Alitalia ceases operations?
 
jumpjet
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:38 pm

Can you imagine it? I can't think of a worse scenario thant I've got at the moment with Alitalia teetering on the brink. I'm flying with them in August from LHR to FCO, I'm looking at the tickets now!

It'll be a complete miracle if:

1: the flights actually take place and they don't fold first...
2. if any cabin crew turn up on the day - what an atmosphere to try to work in...
3. as I'm travelling between the worlds 2 worst airports for lost baggage, our bags don't disappear...
 
HowSwedeitis
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:04 pm

Quoting JumpJet (Reply 75):
I'm flying with them in August from LHR to FCO

I wish you the BEST OF LUCK!!  crossfingers 
Heja Sverige!!
 
UAL777UK
Topic Author
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:42 pm

Quoting JumpJet (Reply 75):
Can you imagine it? I can't think of a worse scenario thant I've got at the moment with Alitalia teetering on the brink. I'm flying with them in August from LHR to FCO, I'm looking at the tickets now!

It'll be a complete miracle if:

1: the flights actually take place and they don't fold first...
2. if any cabin crew turn up on the day - what an atmosphere to try to work in...
3. as I'm travelling between the worlds 2 worst airports for lost baggage, our bags don't disappear...

To be honest, even if AZ was not thretened with liquidation, I would not fly them anyway. They strike so bloody often its just not worth the aggro. I am flying to Naples from LHR on BD at the end of September. AZ, didn't evevn come into the eqation as to whether we would fly them via FCO or alike evevn if the fare was cheaper. Sad but true.
 
jumpjet
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:02 pm

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 77):



Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 77):
To be honest, even if AZ was not thretened with liquidation, I would not fly them anyway. They strike so bloody often its just not worth the aggro. I am flying to Naples from LHR on BD at the end of September. AZ, didn't evevn come into the eqation as to whether we would fly them via FCO or alike evevn if the fare was cheaper. Sad but true.

I haven't got any choice! We're flying out to join a cruise ship and they've organised the flights....  pessimist 
 
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American 767
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:03 pm

Va bene  Smile
I flew with them a couple of months ago from BRU to LIN roundtrip. I didn't have any problem, the flights were on time and there was no cancellation or rescheduling. No strike. I posted a trip report.

Anyway, I consider myself very lucky because:
1. No problem on this trip as I explain.
2. It was the first time I had ever flown with them and maybe the last because they are facing liquidation. I'm glad I flew with them before it would be too late.
3. The validity of my miles on my Sky Team account is extended until May 2010.
4. I enjoyed Milan and Bergamo.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium
Ben Soriano
 
DAYflyer
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:20 pm

I have no doubt Ryaniar and Easyjet will swoop in and claim most of the inter-European market. LH, AF, BA, etc will only be too happy to take up the international slack.
One Nation Under God
 
zvezda
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:29 pm

Quoting Art (Reply 57):
Do you know of a government that has legislated against strikes in a single company?

A single company? No, strikes should be illegal everywhere. They violate principles of anti-trust and are harmful to the overall economy.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:37 pm

Quoting JumpJet (Reply 78):
I haven't got any choice! We're flying out to join a cruise ship and they've organised the flights.

Well good luck. you never know, they may still be on life support from the government then. Have a great holiday.
 
phollingsworth
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:46 pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 66):
While the 772LR is a GE90, it's the 110B1 at 110,100 lb thrust, not the same engine as the GE90-94B at 94,0900lb thrust.
I can't see why DL would pick up a few of AZ aircraft to have another subfleet of 777's. DL would then have three fairly small subfleets of 777's, 8 772ER's with one engine, ?AZ 772ER's with GE90-94 and 6 772LRs with GE90-110.

Delta hasn't shied away from operating small subfleets in the past. When DL took possession of the former Gulf Air 763ERs, they were very different from the existing 763s and 763ERs. They had the extra set of doors and GE CF6-80C2 engines. All of DLs other B763ERs were PW powered (all of the GE powered B767s used -80A engines) at the time and they had not yet ordered the new B763ERs with GE engines. Now this does not mean that they would do this in today's climate; however, if it looked to be a better use of capital than the other alternatives I would expect that DL would make a play for GE90-94B powered B777s. If nothing else they can have AF perform the engine mtc on them.
 
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Vasu
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:43 pm

Quoting JumpJet (Reply 78):
We're flying out to join a cruise ship and they've organised the flights.

I wouldn't worry too much then... if all goes wrong, the company should book you all onto alternative flights
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:45 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 16):
I am sure the Vatican must have some sort of financial organizations. They own so much real estate all over the world so can't they buy an airline?

And they could give state aid, as the Vatican is not part of the EU or EEA. They'd need fifth freedom rights to operate out of Italy though.

Seriously now, I doubt that the government has much of a chance to change the sale conditions in such a way that AZ becomes attractive to investors. They can't change the willingness to strike, the fleet (at least not quickly) and thus setting up a new auction round is probably a waste of time and money. Put an end to it and start over, better today than tomorrow.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
VictorKilo
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:28 pm

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 17):
The only slots of value at Alitalia are the following:

13 Slots at Heathrow
10 Slots at Narita

Looking at AZ's timetable, I see 13 daily flights into LHR, and 10 weekly fights into NRT. I'm assuming that the 13 LHR slots are daily, but the 10 Narita slots are weekly - or are there a bunch of cargo flights into NRT, or slots at NRT that AZ is leasing to other airlines, that I'm not considering?

Of the 13 flights into LHR, four of the flights arrive to LHR in the morning, with arrival times similar to flights into the USA. Are the slots at LHR for a specific time, or are they for one flight a day regardless of time? In other words, with the demand for morning arrival slots at LHR due to the end of Bermuda II, would these four slots be worth more in a AZ liquidation case than the other slots?

Is it the same situation at NRT - is the 7-days-a-week slot for one landing a day or for a flight arriving at a specific time in the morning at NRT, or is it for any time of the day?
 
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lightsaber
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:32 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 8):
Airbus 319,320,321 will find costumors, same for the Embraer 170 and the 777s.

Definitely those airframes will find quick homes. The others? Not so quick.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 17):
The only slots of value at Alitalia are the following:

13 Slots at Heathrow
10 Slots at Narita

Those slots are of quite some value. But I doubt they could even pay a fraction of AZ's debt.  Sad

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 17):
B777-200
How many are leased?
-Potential future use for United, Delta, or Continental

How many are leased? I'm sure they were trying to raise cash any way they could.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 47):
Does anyone have a sense of how soon liquidation might occur?

Bump on this question, I'm curious.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 60):

The MD11's will most likely go to FX or UPS.

Are they still aquiring MD11's. With FX buying 777F's, do they still want/need more? I'm guessing it would depend on the price.

Quoting Art (Reply 63):

"To have a loss-making flag carrier is absurd. When something is diseased, you need to amputate it."

 checkmark  However, it is worth subsidizing transportation. That said, at some point they need to let a healthy airline(s) take over the routes. Italy would do better.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 64):
Hell, I'll buy it one euro.

Get in line. For one Euro I want to run an airline!  Wink Heck, I'd bid 100! Ha! I'm sure I could have fun with the route planning.  spin 

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 77):
They strike so bloody often its just not worth the aggro.

And that is the killer. High yield passengers demand reliable service first. Other items are a preference... but reliable service is a must. Its one thing to defend a standard of living, its another to prevent an airline from breaking even. Strikes must be a very calculated option...

Its sad to lose an airline... but with the management and strikes...

Quoting Phollingsworth (Reply 83):
Delta hasn't shied away from operating small subfleets in the past.

And that killed their economics. They need to really consider before operating another subfleet. Airlines must be run as a business first. Which means buying lots of new aircraft.  Wink

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
LHRBlueSkies
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:47 pm

Quoting Vasu (Reply 73):
Ryanair must have a huge smile on its face right now!

Depends - they are probably still spitting feathers since being kicked out of Ciampino!  Wow!

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 81):
No, strikes should be illegal everywhere.

Yeah, and let's forget workers rights, health & safety issues, a fair and equal workplace while we're at it! Stupid comment.  Angry Unions have their uses (protecting workers, etc), but unions with too much muscle anywhere in the world do no good at all.

Looks like the sale requirements of AZ are being rethought anyway, to encourage someone (anyone!) to buy them!
flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
 
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Vasu
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:48 pm

Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 88):
being kicked out of Ciampino!

What happened there?
 
dl021
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:57 pm

An airline sunk by it's staff....poor management appointed by patronage and union driven seppuku.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
zvezda
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RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:00 am

Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 88):
Yeah, and let's forget workers rights, health & safety issues, a fair and equal workplace while we're at it! Stupid comment. Angry Unions have their uses (protecting workers, etc), but unions with too much muscle anywhere in the world do no good at all.

I'm not the one who's forgetting. There was far more and faster progress in workers' rights, health and safety issues, etc. during the fifty years before unions were given exemption from anti-trust laws than in the fifty years following. I realize that unions are popular here, but the reality is that they do far more harm than good. In the long run, even the workers fare worse due to the unions. The only net beneficiaries are the union/mafia bosses and the politicians who cater to them.
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7087
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:02 am

Would I DL be interested in the 763ER? I know Zoom will likely look at them, but could DL be a possibility. What about CO?

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:06 am

Virgin Italia


Why not?  Smile
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 93):
Virgin Italia


Why not?

As long as it's not a US carrier setting up business with their stupid government aid called 'chapter 11'. That will kill all competition. I guess Virgin would do well, they have a fresh, modern approach, offer good quality, affordable fares and not overpaying their employees.
 
phollingsworth
Posts: 758
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:05 am

RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:38 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 87):
And that killed their economics. They need to really consider before operating another subfleet. Airlines must be run as a business first. Which means buying lots of new aircraft.

Subfleets do hurt economics; however, engine subfleets are less problematic than a/c level subfleets, especially those that fit in different pilot pools or crew training. The ex Gulf Air B763ERs still have significantly different engines, i.e. not directly swapable with the other GE power B763ERs. As I said above the key to deciding is if acquiring this subfleet looks to be a better use of capital than not. I am sure that is on the mind of the DL execs.

As for acquiring new aircraft. If AZ goes under their aircraft would be available long before new a/c could come online. Leasing 3-7 B777s and a handful of B767s will not substantially change the ability to order 100+ B787/A350s etc.
 
yanksn4
Posts: 1375
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:05 am

RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:54 am

Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 86):
Is it the same situation at NRT - is the 7-days-a-week slot for one landing a day or for a flight arriving at a specific time in the morning at NRT, or is it for any time of the day?

Speaking of the NRT slots, if AZ does actually fold, could this what EK is looking for in order to get into Tokyo. I know it's said there slots available, just that they aren't the best times. However, with this slot by AZ, could EK find possible to get in.
Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story
 
FLYGUY767
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:26 pm

RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:53 am

Quoting Yanksn4 (Reply 96):
Speaking of the NRT slots, if AZ does actually fold, could this what EK is looking for in order to get into Tokyo. I know it's said there slots available, just that they aren't the best times. However, with this slot by AZ, could EK find possible to get in.

I think the Japan-UAE Bilateral is maxed out on the UAE side, thus you are not seeing EK in the NRT market..

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
User avatar
Vasu
Posts: 3116
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:34 am

RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:39 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 93):
Virgin Italia

... I like it!
 
airbazar
Posts: 9950
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: AZ: Looks Like Liquidation Is Going To Happen

Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 45):
They are too far gone for any investor to be able to revive without government support which is illegal and which would not be given if the money had to be viewed as investment. AZ has been on death's doorstep for years; to think it can be turned around at this point is dreamy.

That is the likely scenario however, there is a precent for success here. If you go back in time 7-10 years and take a look at TAP you will find that they were in exactly the same situation. Effecting and competent management combined with some political will has turned that airline around. But it took at lot of work, most all to change the mind set of the Unions. Routes were cut and the entire airline was restructured into a more sustainable size. Will AZ's Unions agreee to do the same? At this point I have serious doubts.

Quoting Vasu (Reply 73):
Ryanair must have a huge smile on its face right now!

Not just Ryanair. IB and AF too will benefit greatly by filling AZ's transatlantic void and so will LH.

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