STNDEICER
Topic Author
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Virgin To Stansted?

Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:25 pm

Virgin are apparently interested in starting services from stn to america. I'd personally love to see them there but with EOS, MAXJET already there, doing well and AA starting services soon, would it be worthwhile?
 
sevenair
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:43 pm

I think so. With people in the UK, I believe more people would prefer to fly VS than AA any day.
 
Humberside
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:01 pm

IMO they would be stupid to go to JFK or EWR - MaxJjet/Eos/AA have that market covered, and with AA theres now an economy class service as well

STN-MCO maybe though - I doubt people in North London/East Anglia/Home Counties appreciate having to go to LGW
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RussianJet
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:19 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 2):
IMO they would be stupid to go to JFK or EWR - MaxJjet/Eos/AA have that market covered, and with AA theres now an economy class service as well

I don't think so. Eos and Maxjet only have the business market covered, and as Sevenair mentioned above anyone with half a brain would take Virgin economy over AA any day. I think they could possibly make it work.
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BA787
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:20 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 2):
STN-MCO maybe though - I doubt people in North London/East Anglia/Home Counties appreciate having to go to LGW

True but then we don't really appreciate having to go to STN either. Would be nice if we could have a few more MCO services outside of London. There aren't excactly many now

As for VS, they could do well at STN. I mean they offer much superior services to AA and I would say their business and first products run rings around both eos and MAXJET, even if they are all business carriers.

BA787
 
trent900
Posts: 520
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:14 pm

Quoting BA787 (Reply 4):
but then we don't really appreciate having to go to STN either

This ones got me..... so you would rather travel to the other side of London?


More long distance flights would be well accepted at STN considering the large catchment area, plus driving round the M25 isn't too pleasant to say the least.

D.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:19 pm

Quoting Trent900 (Reply 5):
More long distance flights would be well accepted at STN considering the large catchment area, plus driving round the M25 isn't too pleasant to say the least.

I agree with that statement, though a bigger airport would really help before further routes are taken on - this place (STN) is fast becoming a nightmare these days...
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britannia191a
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:31 am

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:20 pm

Quoting Trent900 (Reply 5):
Quoting BA787 (Reply 4):
but then we don't really appreciate having to go to STN either

This ones got me..... so you would rather travel to the other side of London?


More long distance flights would be well accepted at STN considering the large catchment area, plus driving round the M25 isn't too pleasant to say the least.

D.

Well depends how far you live. With Low Cost Carriers its just as cheap to fly internally and catch a connection. I would rather drive to Stansted then LGW from Manchester. I have flying to MCO with VS in December. I could only get flights from LGW so instead of driving im flying down to LGW with BA and the internal flights are dead cheap. Saves on Car Fuel, journey time, car parking and possible overnight stay before hand.
 
tiago701
Posts: 168
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:42 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6):
I agree with that statement, though arnbigger airport would really help before further routes are taken on -rnthis place (STN) is fast becoming a nightmare these days...

How bad is STN now in terms of congestion? Both terminal and runway capacity?

Everytime i go there it takes ages to go through security control. Do EOS and Maxjet passengers use special channels?

In terms of VS would LTN be an option to STN, as it's less congested and maybe there's the possibility of a dedicated terminal?
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:42 pm

If this rumour is true I imagine it would make VS the only airline to operate from LHR, LGW & STN.

Much is made of STN being convenient for East Anglia (Its certainly convenient for me living near Cambridge), we don't however have any really large areas of population. The majority of STN traffic must come from the London area, and is thus fairly convenient for VS's existing operations.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:49 pm

Quoting Tiago701 (Reply 8):
How bad is STN now in terms of congestion? Both terminal and runway capacity?

Runway is not too bad as far as I understand, but the terminal is sometimes absolutely dreadful. It depends on the time of day, but often late at night for instance the place just cannot cope with the numbers being shovelled through by BAA and the LCCs. The arrivals area is definitely too small and the way that flight movements are organised mean that there are several horrendous peaks throughout the day rather than having a constant flow.
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FLVILLA
Posts: 316
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:00 pm

It would be brilliant if VS flew to MCO from STN !

My families company is based in Orlando and the worst part for all the people we send is the flight back into LGW, the horrible 2-3 hour drive back home again when you've just come off an 8 hour night flight, your tired and irritable is the last thing you want to do. And if you know East Anglia well then you'll understand that our roads could be much better than they are.....especially if you have to use the A12 after Ipswich  Sad

Now if only someone would fly from NWI to the US  Wink
I hope in life i can work to live, not live to work
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5983
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:21 pm

Quoting FLVILLA (Reply 11):
especially if you have to use the A12 after Ipswich

Oh yes....speed limits galore.
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jacobin777
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:07 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 9):
If this rumour is true I imagine it would make VS the only airline to operate from LHR, LGW & STN.

...AA already operates out of LHR and LGW....when they add STN in the fall, they will be operating out of all 3 airports....
"Up the Irons!"
 
RussianJet
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:20 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 13):
...AA already operates out of LHR and LGW....when they add STN in the fall, they will be operating out of all 3 airports....

I thought the STN service was to be instead of LGW.
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jacobin777
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:55 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 14):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 13):
...AA already operates out of LHR and LGW....when they add STN in the fall, they will be operating out of all 3 airports....

I thought the STN service was to be instead of LGW.

LGW won't be ending at minimum until AA flies some of their LGW routes to LHR (i.e.-such as DFW)....I'm still in the camp who believes AA will serve LGW in one way or the other next year...

Regardless, JFK-STN is independent of LGW.... Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
RussianJet
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:09 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 15):
LGW won't be ending at minimum until AA flies some of their LGW routes to LHR (i.e.-such as DFW)....I'm still in the camp who believes AA will serve LGW in one way or the other next year...

Regardless, JFK-STN is independent of LGW

I see - thanks for info.
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jimbo27L
Posts: 46
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:03 am

I know its getting a little off topic because the thread is about Virgin, but its been touched on so Im gonna add my two pennith.

STN is a pain in the backside to get to, even from London - the 'express' is an archaic joke especially for £16-17 return.

'Ah, but more accessible from the North I here you say', hmmm, not really unless negotiating the A1, A14 is your idea of fun. The closest major conurbation (except London) is the West Midlands (2hrs drive on a good day) and look at that, they already have an airport!

Im not having a go at STN, but the infrastructure does not support it at all. I cant understand the thinking behind the planning or long term strategy of the place. The government white paper reckon an increase in passenger numbers to 35m and an extra runway.....Who is it for and where will all these additional passengers come from?? Does anyone know?

Being originally from the North East, Id take LGW and even LHR over STN anyday in terms of convenince and connections - and would suggest anyone west of the M1 and north of Peterboro would either use their local airports for European hops or chartered long haul, or if necessary head to LHR/LGW to connect to services that STN does not offer anyway!! Apart from the LCC market, which admittedly is booming, the place cannot realistically boast a meaningful catchment area.

AA's new route out of here baffles me - would love to know the thinking behind that and also the jargon in the white paper, or should that be elephant.....anyone??

...shouldve started a new thread...oh well.
 
Joost
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:27 pm

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:04 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 10):
but the terminal is sometimes absolutely dreadful.

As far as I know, they are currently construction a minor terminal expansion for Stansted?
 
STNDEICER
Topic Author
Posts: 23
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:11 am

Quoting Tiago701 (Reply 8):
How bad is STN now in terms of congestion? Both terminal and runway capacity?

The terminal at STN is soon to be expanded. The new roof sections have arrived on site and it looks like they are increasing it by about 20%

Key features of the project include doubling the size of the immigration hall, providing extra space for additional baggage carousels and the creation of a new and improved area for 'meeters and greeters'. There will also be enhanced retail and onward transport facilities.

In terms of getting through passport control, yes it is ridiculous how long it can take. However, what do People expect when there are 15 desks and only 7/8 manned at one time.

Runway capacity still has a fair way to go before before being full
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:12 am

Quoting Jimbo27L (Reply 17):
Being originally from the North East, Id take LGW and even LHR over STN anyday in terms of convenince and connections - and would suggest anyone west of the M1 and north of Peterboro would either use their local airports for European hops or chartered long haul, or if necessary head to LHR/LGW to connect to services that STN does not offer anyway!! Apart from the LCC market, which admittedly is booming, the place cannot realistically boast a meaningful catchment area.

I would generally agree with you reagrding STN and its catchment area; the one thing however where it does gain is in the terminal layout. Its far easier to navigate your way through STN than LHR or LGW. Its only 20 metres or so from the front door to your check in desk, antoher 30 metres or so to security, and finally a short walk to the tram stop for your departure gate.
 
jimbo27L
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 9:58 pm

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:16 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 20):
I would generally agree with you reagrding STN and its catchment area; the one thing however where it does gain is in the terminal layout. Its far easier to navigate your way through STN than LHR or LGW. Its only 20 metres or so from the front door to your check in desk, antoher 30 metres or so to security, and finally a short walk to the tram stop for your departure gate

No arguments with the distance mate, but try getting through the one door leading to security in a sensible amount of time...
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting STNDEICER (Reply 19):
only 7/8 manned at one time

You obviously don't see the busy times too often - the desks are very often fully manned and it's still not nearly enough to cope with the numbers coming through.
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2travel2know
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:26 am

VS purchased JM LHR slots,
VS says they'll be flying to KIN,
VS badly need more premium LHR slots,
VS shows interests in flying out of STN,
Therefore;
VS may be flying to KIN from STN ??

As VS needs premium LHR slots and LGW slots are to pricey for VS Caribbean and leisure destinations (MCO, LAS, Caribbean). Would it be O.K. to assume that selected VS leisure destination would be served from STN in the near future?
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
jimbo27L
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 9:58 pm

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:33 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 23):
As VS needs premium LHR slots and LGW slots are to pricey for VS Caribbean and leisure destinations (MCO, LAS, Caribbean). Would it be O.K. to assume that selected VS leisure destination would be served from STN in the near future?

Why set up another base in London?? LGW serves VS leisure business adequately.

I would suggest that any move to STN by Virgin is highly unlikely - it does not make business sense to invest in a fourth UK base (LHR, LGW, MAN)

Id also argue that it does not suit their branding, given that STN is essentially STag doo iNternational.
 
STNDEICER
Topic Author
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:11 pm

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:34 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 22):
You obviously don't see the busy times too often - the desks are very often fully manned and it's still not nearly enough to cope with the numbers coming through.

I see the busy times quite a lot actually as i work at STN and am a frequent flyer from there and even arriving back in about 22.00 - 00.00 (the busiest time) not all security desks are open
 
FLVILLA
Posts: 316
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RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:45 am

Quoting Jimbo27L (Reply 17):
Apart from the LCC market, which admittedly is booming, the place cannot realistically boast a meaningful catchment area.

Well that's a bit of a slap in the face to all of us living in Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire now isn't it for which STN for the majority is the closest major airport. Thats around 4.5 million people living in those counties alone !
I hope in life i can work to live, not live to work
 
jimbo27L
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 9:58 pm

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:01 am

Quoting FLVILLA (Reply 26):
Well that's a bit of a slap in the face to all of us living in Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire now isn't it for which STN for the majority is the closest major airport. Thats around 4.5 million people living in those counties alone !

I said I wasn't having a dig, and I take your point that it is the closest airport to the areas you specify. However 4.5m catchment area for a facility that aims to add another runway and increase capacity to 35m is very ambitious. Ive yet to see anywhere how these numbers will be achieved and justify any investment. And remember that LTN also eats into part of that area you describe.

STN's reliance on LCC's for it's growth is flawed, but the only option available I fear. Why would any international non LCC add STN as a destination when the infrastructure lets the place down???

Best off spending the cash that would be spent on the new runway on a high speed rail link to connect the airport to London in the south and Peterboro in the north.
 
tiago701
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:35 am

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:14 am

Quoting Jimbo27L (Reply 27):
Why would any international non LCC add STN as a destination when the infrastructure lets the place down???

EOS and Maxjet certainly did have a diferent opinion.

Maybe because it's less congested than LHR and LGW.

But i agree that STN might not be the right option for them either, although their business model is working fine and loads are there to prove it.

Silverjet has a competitive advantage, IMO, of being in LTN over STN has it is even less congested than STN, closer to get to / from the City than any other London airport and with the possibility of having their own terminal eleminating great part of the hassle of going through an airport.

Why didn't American Airlines think of a similar solution instead of STN?
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:29 am

Quoting STNDEICER (Reply 25):
i work at STN and am a frequent flyer from there

Join the club. Obviously they're not fully-manned on all occasions, but I have to say that they often are.
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RussianJet
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:39 am

Quoting FLVILLA (Reply 26):
Quoting Jimbo27L (Reply 17):
Apart from the LCC market, which admittedly is booming, the place cannot realistically boast a meaningful catchment area.

Well that's a bit of a slap in the face to all of us living in Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire now isn't it for which STN for the majority is the closest major airport. Thats around 4.5 million people living in those counties alone !

 checkmark 

And, wait, what's that other place it's quite near, you know that little place....darn, the name escapes me.....oh yeah! LONDON. Especially the north and northeast of it, and with that direct trainlink straight into the City.
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flytuitravel
Posts: 491
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 2:46 am

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:39 am

Quoting Tiago701 (Reply 8):
In terms of VS would LTN be an option to STN, as it's less congested and maybe there's the possibility of a dedicated terminal?

I don't think the runway at LTN is long enough for a fully loaded 744/A346 to MCO/MIA, so unless they're willing to get some used 767s, I don't think so. It's a shame really as it would be good for LTN. Maybe not so good for those annoying residents who don't want Luton to be a "Jumbo Jet" airport. I think they think they are louder than a 737/32S!
Ah well!


FLYTUITRAVEL.
 
jimbo27L
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 9:58 pm

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:43 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 30):
And, wait, what's that other place it's quite near, you know that little place....darn, the name escapes me.....oh yeah! LONDON. Especially the north and northeast of it, and with that direct trainlink straight into the City.

You're missing my point. London is already served by 2 major airports offering scheduled international destinations to the vast majority of the capital and higher populated areas of the south east, with better (note not 'good') connections. LHR and LGW are also a damn sight closer to London....what will the first lot of passengers arriving on AA think when they land in a field in Cambridgeshire, for not much less than a fare to LHR?? Add on the cost of getting to and from London (most peoples final destination) and you negate the benefit of flying into STN - unless of course you count crowds and delays at LHR. But lets face it, if AA are only offering a 2 class 767 to STN, theyre not exactley targeting stockbrokers.

Fine, so the north and northeast of the city (and I would argue that it is only the north east) is served by a direct train link - a train link which would be an embarrassment in the 80's.

STN is a total anomaly, it has grown as a result of the LCC's, offering travellers who are prepared to sit on a train for an hour cheap fares. Until it has the infrastructure required by a major international airport it will remain the playground of easyJet and Ryanair. Relating it back to the thread, thats why I doubt VS would entertain a presence there.
 
RussianJet
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Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:08 am

Quoting Jimbo27L (Reply 32):
London is already served by 2 major airports offering scheduled international destinations to the vast majority of the capital and higher populated areas of the south east, with better (note not 'good') connections. LHR and LGW are also a damn sight closer to London....

1) You probably know the issues with slots, congestion etc. at those 2 major airports
2) I do not accept that the connections are all that much better, a little maybe.
3) LGW in particular is not a 'damn sight' closer to London - STN is obviously closer than you think.
4) It does not take an hour to get the Stansted Express to Liverpool Street - more like 40 mins.
5) As I said, also depends on which part ot London you travel from.
6) Distance of STN from centre of London is comparable to many other major airports worldwide.
7) ALL trains in the UK are an embarrassment, not just the STN express!  Smile
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Panman
Posts: 603
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 1999 8:25 pm

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:51 am

I would argue that it takes longer to get to the center of London from LHR than from STN - and depending on the time of day it's quicker than from LGW too. The Gatwick Express has to contend with congestion in the East Croydon and Clapham Junction area, whereas the Stansted Express has only to contend with Liverpool Street. The Heathrow Express charges too much for too little (only ever used it when I worked at Heathrow and was thus entitled to a staff discount). The saving grace for Heathrow is the fact that the Picadilly Line (underground) goes there so it's the easiest to get to from central London - though that in itself is a less than romantic journey at peak times. LTN is a hassle with the train type and the multitude of stops that the trains have to make before you get to the airport (though if you go to St Pancras and catch one of the services heading to the North of the country - Sheffield, Doncaster, Leicester etc) then you can get a train where Luton Airport Parkway is the first stop). Once you get to the Parkway you then have to get the shuttle bus to the airport and at peak times you get friendly with other people's body odours - oh and the traffic due to the roadworks after the roundabout at the station. The only negative that I see with the Stansted Express is the type of trains used are not really conducive to carrying lots of luggage.

Driving to/from Stansted is much less hassle than LHR and don't even get me started on the drive to Gatwick (if it's not early morning/late evening then it's murder with the M25 and the congestion on the Gatwick exit on the M23). LTN is let down by the M1, especially with the 50 mph speed limit through the roadworks (you barely pass 30 mph at most times). I work at Luton and drive to/from my home in London everyday and I refuse to use the M1 (or the M25 as a matter of fact). There are various routes you can use to get to LHR but all of them entail eventually getting caught in traffic. M25 - traffic; A4/M4 - traffic; A406 - traffic; A40/M40 - traffic once you leave it (Hayes, Southall, Hounslow, M25).

Trust me, if STN was an option to get to where I am flying to, I would use it anyday over LGW/LHR.

One airport I haven't mentioned in all of the above is the lovely LCY. Flew from there twice so far and that is what I call NO HASSLE. Too bad you can't go transatlantic from LCY (yes I know that you can from AMS/BRU/FRA/ZRH but then you might as well have left from one of the other LON airports).

The only LON airport I haven't flown from is LTN (I don't count Cambridge, Lydd, Manston and Southend as London airports) but I work there so I know what it entails to get to/from there.

PaNMaN

[Edited 2007-07-24 22:54:40]

[Edited 2007-07-24 22:57:08]
 
AirNZ
Posts: 544
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:03 pm

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:09 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 4):
As for VS, they could do well at STN. I mean they offer much superior services to AA and I would say their business and first products run rings around both eos and MAXJET, even if they are all business carriers.

VS don't offer First on any route, but I agree with you wholehearedly on everything else.

Quoting Jimbo27L (Reply 24):
I would suggest that any move to STN by Virgin is highly unlikely - it does not make business sense to invest in a fourth UK base (LHR, LGW, MAN)

Not sure I would agree with this at all. We consistently (and quite correctly) hear on a.net the desirability and need for more L/H destinations from the UK regions......how is this going to be achieved without setting up another base?

Quoting Jimbo27L (Reply 27):
Best off spending the cash that would be spent on the new runway on a high speed rail link to connect the airport to London in the south and Peterboro in the north.



Quoting Jimbo27L (Reply 32):
what will the first lot of passengers arriving on AA think when they land in a field in Cambridgeshire,



Quoting Jimbo27L (Reply 32):
But lets face it, if AA are only offering a 2 class 767 to STN, theyre not exactley targeting stockbrokers.



Quoting Jimbo27L (Reply 32):
STN is a total anomaly, it has grown as a result of the LCC's, offering travellers who are prepared to sit on a train for an hour cheap fares

I have to disagree entirely with the gist of your posts. With all due respect, you seem to feel that everyone in the UK should travel only from London (meaning LHR and LGW) and that everything else is inferior and should be looked down upon. Indeed, I see it very clearly that at every opportunity you are having a dig at both STN and it's catchement area! Contrary to your seemingly way of thinking, the UK does not revolve soley around London.
I don't quite understand your contradiction regarding spending the cash earmarked for a new runway on a high-speed rail link to London when, essentially, your thinking seems to indicate that LCC pax and anyone even wishing to fly to STN are inferior and part of "an anomaly".
I would welcome VS at STN, and any other airline, who gets us away from this nonsense 'London Airways' syndrome.
Flown:F27/TU134/Viscount/Trident/BAC111/727/737/747/757/767/777/300/310/320/321/330/340/DC9/DC10/Dash8/Shorts330/BAe146
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1318
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:18 am

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 35):

VS don't offer First on any route, but I agree with you wholehearedly on everything else.

Correct!

The Upper Class Suote (UCS) is the product that VS use to cover Business and First Class.
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1318
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:18 am

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 35):

VS don't offer First on any route, but I agree with you wholehearedly on everything else.

Correct!

The Upper Class Suite (UCS) is the product that VS use to cover Business and First Class.
 
jimbo27L
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 9:58 pm

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:02 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 33):
7) ALL trains in the UK are an embarrassment, not just the STN express!

Agreed, it's a joke!

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 35):
Not sure I would agree with this at all. We consistently (and quite correctly) hear on a.net the desirability and need for more L/H destinations from the UK regions......how is this going to be achieved without setting up another base?

Again, totally agree, but we're talking economics here, and until STN has a clear and defined strategy to actually attract passengers cited in the White paper (including improved infrastructure etc), I just cant see mainline airlines setting up shop there.

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 35):
have to disagree entirely with the gist of your posts. With all due respect, you seem to feel that everyone in the UK should travel only from London (meaning LHR and LGW) and that everything else is inferior and should be looked down upon. Indeed, I see it very clearly that at every opportunity you are having a dig at both STN and it's catchement area! Contrary to your seemingly way of thinking, the UK does not revolve soley around London.
I don't quite understand your contradiction regarding spending the cash earmarked for a new runway on a high-speed rail link to London when, essentially, your thinking seems to indicate that LCC pax and anyone even wishing to fly to STN are inferior and part of "an anomaly".
I would welcome VS at STN, and any other airline, who gets us away from this nonsense 'London Airways' syndrome.

Guys, again, I'm not having a pop at STN. I am from the north east and see the enormous potential of developing the regional airports - chuffed to see Emirates starting from NCL next month - equally p!ssed of to see AA withdraw last year before even starting services.

The 'London Airways' theory you speak of is flawed because BA is a PLC and answers to it's shareholders - end of story - they make money by operating from LHR....these are the same market forces that have allowed STN to expand because of the rapid growth of LCC's. Incidentally, if it really were London Airways you would see them setting up at STN would you not?? Or are we now classing STN as 'the regions' - you cant have it both ways. Equally, BA routes are disappearing from LGW with the onset of Open Skies..

Unfortunately sentiment will never play part in business. I would love to see BA/CX at MAN for instance operating long haul, but they dont because more money can be made elsewhere.

Anyway, back to STN, the White Paper and expansion....I just cant see it being a case of "building it and they will come."
 
irobertson
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:35 am

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:25 am

Back to Virgin at STN... Anyone wanna suggest maybe YYZ or YVR? No one has considered Canada yet, that's all.
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:29 am

Quoting Jimbo27L (Reply 38):
I just cant see mainline airlines setting up shop there.

You mean like TK, LY and AA?
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
jimbo27L
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 9:58 pm

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:45 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 40):
You mean like TK, LY and AA?

Ah yes, TK's daily high volume route to Istanbul with a 738 and LY's sketchy service to TLV.

After NCL 's experience with AA, I wouldn't count your chickens....!  Wink
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:58 am

Quoting Jimbo27L (Reply 41):
Ah yes, TK's daily high volume route to Istanbul with a 738 and LY's sketchy service to TLV.

I never said they had high volume routes, but those two have both been at STN for a while now, and they are at least there and loads seem ok (also just remembered we have OK here too). I don't think anyone is talking about VS setting up a major base at STN. Incidentally, what precisely is 'sketchy' about LY service to TLV?
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
trent900
Posts: 520
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:06 am

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:56 pm

Quoting Tiago701 (Reply 28):
Silverjet has a competitive advantage, IMO, of being in LTN over STN has it is even less congested than STN, closer to get to / from the City than any other London airport

IMO LTN is a complete pain in the backside to get to. Its stuck on a hill which doesnt help.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 33):
7) ALL trains in the UK are an embarrassment, not just the STN express!

To be honest I have noticed an improvmement over the past year. Hopefully they will get better, the government has suffered enough embarrassment over them already LOL.

Quoting Jimbo27L (Reply 41):
Ah yes, TK's daily high volume route to Istanbul with a 738 and LY's sketchy service to TLV.

I was convinced they operated A321's on the TLV? Maybe I'm thinking of another airline.

Quoting Joost (Reply 18):
As far as I know, they are currently construction a minor terminal expansion for Stansted?

The new extension will open this time next year. Its a 2 section extension on the arrivals side so this should make immigration a lot less bother to get through at peak times.

D.
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3542
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:57 pm

Quoting Jimbo27L (Reply 32):
what will the first lot of passengers arriving on AA think when they land in a field in Cambridgeshire

If they land in Cambridgeshire they will in all likelihood be thanking the Lord for letting them walk away from the crash, as they will be at least 10 miles short of the runway

STN is in Essex and rather closer to London than Cambridgeshire

Quoting Jimbo27L (Reply 32):


STN is a total anomaly, it has grown as a result of the LCC's, offering travellers who are prepared to sit on a train for an hour cheap fares. Until it has the infrastructure required by a major international airport it will remain the playground of easyJet and Ryanair. Relating it back to the thread, thats why I doubt VS would entertain a presence there.

STN has better infrastructure than many International airports I have visited, long runway, modern terminal, mainline rail link, motorway to the boundary etc. Its just that its a bit further out than LHR (but not as far as you infer with reference to Cambridgeshire) ; I can't reallly see that its an anomaly
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:04 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 44):
STN is in Essex and rather closer to London than Cambridgeshire

Not quite so - journey time from STN to Cambridge direct on the train is 32 minutes. Liverpool Street is around 45 mins.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3542
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:13 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 45):

Perhaps I didn't make my statement 100% clear for everyone; Jimbo27L stated that STN was in Cambridgeshire; as I previousy posted

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 44):
STN is in Essex and rather closer to London than Cambridgeshire

I meant that Essex is closer to London than Cambridgeshire
 
trent900
Posts: 520
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:06 am

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:23 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 44):
STN has better infrastructure than many International airports I have visited, long runway, modern terminal, mainline rail link, motorway to the boundary etc.

Nothing more can be said, this sums it up to a T.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 45):
Not quite so - journey time from STN to Cambridge direct on the train is 32 minutes. Liverpool Street is around 45 mins.

I haven't looked on a map yet but there are many more stops on the journey to London so therefore the journey time is longer.

D.
 
jimbo27L
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 9:58 pm

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:33 pm

Quoting Trent900 (Reply 47):
STN has better infrastructure than many International airports I have visited, long runway, modern terminal, mainline rail link, motorway to the boundary etc.

Nothing more can be said, this sums it up to a T.

OK, Ive said my piece on that - Marvellous, the infrastructure you describe has been in place for 5-10yrs, the place sounds fantastic...

So then, whats the trouble with attracting more routes and airlines??
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: Virgin To Stansted?

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:55 pm

Quoting Trent900 (Reply 43):
I was convinced they operated A321's on the TLV? Maybe I'm thinking of another airline.

LY usually fly a 757 on the TLV route, occasionaly a 767 (once also remember a 737, can't remember which variety though).

Quoting Trent900 (Reply 47):
I haven't looked on a map yet but there are many more stops on the journey to London so therefore the journey time is longer.

Again, not quite so - Most of the STN express trains have only one or two stops. Always stop at Tottenham Hale, some at Harlow or Bishop's Stortford as well.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈

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