n471wn
Topic Author
Posts: 1717
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:23 am

First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:52 am

According to ATDB, the first A-340 scrapping will take place at Goodyear and is ship #16 registered D-AIEL and owned by Lufthansa Technik......sad day
 
flytuitravel
Posts: 491
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 2:46 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:54 am

I was wondering when this day would come just recently.... What day exactly is it to be?
A sad day it will be.


FLYTUITRAVEL.
 
User avatar
N328KF
Posts: 5946
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:57 am

So we're counting the first A340 that was scrapped due due to airframe utilization? Because there have been three A340s that have been written-off to-date.
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
-Donny Miller
 
User avatar
breiz
Posts: 1445
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:12 pm

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting N471WN (Thread starter):
According to ATDB, the first A-340 scrapping will take place at Goodyear and is ship #16 registered D-AIEL and owned by Lufthansa Technik......sad day

MSN 16 was supposed to go to Air Comet together with MSN 13 and 15. May be the years with BWIA have worn her out faster than expected.
 
OceansWorld
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:00 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting N471WN (Thread starter):
According to ATDB, the first A-340 scrapping will take place at Goodyear and is ship #16 registered D-AIEL and owned by Lufthansa Technik......sad day

Here it is in both its operators colors.

VS as G-VSKY "China Girl" 01/1994 - 11/2003

BW as 9Y-JIL 01/2004 - 01/2007


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Prince Aviation Images
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Raymond Wang



And here as D-AEIL the day it was ferried to XFW from MUC.

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=613267

Quoting Breiz (Reply 3):
MSN 16 was supposed to go to Air Comet together with MSN 13 and 15. May be the years with BWIA have worn her out faster than expected.

Airlinerlist says it was intended for AR with unknown delivery date.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:22 am

Already?
The oldest A340 is less than 20 years old. Had it reached the maximum cycles it could?
How much life is left in this plane if another carrier bought it?
Bring back the Concorde
 
n710ps
Posts: 1116
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:09 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:28 am

I feel old now with this happening. I am no big 340 fan but it is just the way they were built. The airbuses of today are built on a limited life timespan and after they hit that cycles number it is time to sell her for parts. Unfortuneately no beer cans can be made of these either.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
User avatar
SEPilot
Posts: 5518
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:32 am

Well, the first 777 was parted out most likely because it had been very badly cared for; what sort of care had this one received? And could it be the same situation, that it is worth more in parts than it is worth to an airline?
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:36 am

Quoting N710PS (Reply 6):
Unfortuneately no beer cans can be made of these either.

 Wow!  Wow!  Wow!

Quoting N710PS (Reply 6):
The airbuses of today are built on a limited life timespan and after they hit that cycles number it is time to sell her for parts.

Is that true or is this Airbus bashing?
Bring back the Concorde
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7087
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:46 am

This is bull. I feel way old and think it should be put in a museum.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
aloges
Posts: 14850
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:51 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
Is that true or is this Airbus bashing?

I've often read that one, and not coming from A vs B people. And why not, lighter - but less persistent - materials mean lighter aircraft and less fuel consumption - if you guarantee a certain amount of cycles and the customer buys, then every single cycle above that guaranteed number is a bonus paid for by higher fuel costs.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
Quoting N710PS (Reply 6):
Unfortuneately no beer cans can be made of these either.

 Wow!  Wow!  Wow!

One of the nicer myths of aviation...  Wink
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Scorpio
Posts: 5042
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:58 am

Quoting N710PS (Reply 6):
I am no big 340 fan but it is just the way they were built.

Why does this always come back in a discussion about an Airbus being scrapped, but never when equally young, or younger, Boeing aircraft (like the 1995 777 a while back) go to the chopper?
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 10):
I've often read that one, and not coming from A vs B people. And why not, lighter - but less persistent - materials mean lighter aircraft and less fuel consumption - if you guarantee a certain amount of cycles and the customer buys, then every single cycle above that guaranteed number is a bonus paid for by higher fuel costs.

Thanks for the update. I hope I didn't come off accusatory towards N710PS.
The A340 is too new of an aircraft to have one going off to the scrapper.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Speedbirdie
Posts: 873
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 5:11 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:03 am

Sorry have I missed something here?
Why is it being scrapped?
Never give up..
 
n710ps
Posts: 1116
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:09 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:06 am

Because of the material that the Airbus was built with Alogas. Not to debate it at all. There is a little more in the way of composite in the frame of the airbus and as a result the lifespan on it stands firm. Boeing opted to a slightly diffrent approach on the 777 that is all. There time will come. Relax.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
Byrdluvs747
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:25 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:07 am

Am I the only one not sad to see an A340 scrapped?
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
ilikeflight
Posts: 359
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:19 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:08 am

Dose anybody know the date that the scrapping is supposed to take place?????

Always sad when a beautiful a/c gets parted out
Think Different
 
User avatar
A340313X
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 9:03 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:10 am

Sad Day

='O(

Obviously higher cycle aircraft that are worn out maybe aren't worth saving. It's one of the older A340s and a lot of strain may have been put on it doing long flights with BWIA as this machine is one of the least powerful and least capable A340s around.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:16 am

Its always sad when an airplane is scrapped, especially when its a younger airplane and/or an airplane that is still in production, but lets not forget that the decision to break up an airplane is primarily a financial one. The subject A340 is probably worth more in parts than as a whole, and/or is due for expensive heavy maintainance, and as an early build and well used airframe, there is probably very little demand for the airplane in the second hand market. Does anyone know if this particular airplane had any special problems or issues? I suspect that the years that the airplane spend with BeeWee were intense ones for this airplane.
 
MYT321
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:54 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:20 am

It appears that highly complex modern aircraft simply have a 'use by' date, beyond which maintainence becomes uneconomic. The era of old airliners seeing out their days with third-rate/third-world pax or cargo carriers with 'rubber-band and sticky tape' maintainence practices will thankfully come to an end.
"The A380 is coming to MAN"
 
N231YE
Posts: 2620
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:24 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:21 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 7):
Well, the first 777 was parted out most likely because it had been very badly cared for; what sort of care had this one received?

I am wondering about that too.

If not, and seeing that airplanes are getting scrapped at younger and younger ages, I wonder if:

  • The technology is getting better, but the build quality is getting cheaper (as in junk). This isn't an A vs. B, more more of all companies. Example, why did a washing machine built in the 70's last 25 years, and yet today's last only 10 (if one is lucky)?

    -or-

  • The airline industry is getting so tight-necked that a slighter older airplane, with slightly older technology and slightly higher fuel burn can make a big difference in profits?
 
aloges
Posts: 14850
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:22 am

Quoting N710PS (Reply 14):
Relax.

perfectly fine

Quoting N710PS (Reply 14):
Because of the material that the Airbus was built with Alogas.

The "myth" is that all airplanes become beer cans, not that Airbus chose to build a lot of composites into the A340. In reality, there's a lot of things you can make out of aviation alloys once you've recycled them.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 15):
Am I the only one not sad to see an A340 scrapped?

I hope so.

[Edited 2007-07-25 00:23:47]
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
XT6Wagon
Posts: 2726
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:06 pm

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:52 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 11):
Why does this always come back in a discussion about an Airbus being scrapped, but never when equally young, or younger, Boeing aircraft (like the 1995 777 a while back) go to the chopper?

Pssst dude, your bias is showing...


The Varig 777 was a strange case, and likely needed so much money to bring to service condition that the scrappers bid ended up being the highest. Its hard to argue FOR returning to service a plane that has no engines, and needs a complete overhaul nose to tail, coupled with a new interior. It also hit the block right around the time that Airlines were shopping slots for new build 777's that just opened up due to a line rate increase.

Last 777-200A's suck compared to 777-200ER's which means that its used value as a flying frame isn't as high even if it would do 100% of the missions the new owner would want it to do.


And Scorpio, if its SUCH a myth why are low cycle A320's getting sent to the desert? Something about cracking in the wingbox? At 20K cycles or so? Clearly cause its happening it means that the "myth" that airbus makes good planes is busted..... Its certainly not that the airline flying them has made an economic decision in favor of scrapping instead of repairing because thats what makes the most sense.
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 5165
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:16 am

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 22):
the "myth" that airbus makes good planes is busted.....

Damn! Found out at last. Oh well, they got away with pretending that they could make OK planes for 30 years and nearly 8,000 orders but I guess they couldn't keep up the pretence for ever...  rotfl 

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 22):
Pssst dude, your bias is showing...

How ironic...
 
XT6Wagon
Posts: 2726
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:06 pm

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:23 am

Quoting PM (Reply 23):
Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 22):
the "myth" that airbus makes good planes is busted.....

Damn! Found out at last. Oh well, they got away with pretending that they could make OK planes for 30 years and nearly 8,000 orders but I guess they couldn't keep up the pretence for ever...

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 22):
Pssst dude, your bias is showing...

How ironic...

you might note that I was not actualy saying airbus suck, but rather showing how dumb his argument was by turning it around.
 
Ceph
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:29 pm

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:50 am

Ok... this is turning into a A Vs B wars... I believe that both companies makes great planes. Only the conditions whereby the airframe is subjected to that affects how many cycles the airframe can take. Conditions such as weather, maintenance, etc etc. I'm currently taking a course on Aeronautical Engineering. But I have not touch on airframes or not I can tell you more.
 
User avatar
NWAROOSTER
Posts: 1259
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:29 pm

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:03 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 20):
The airline industry is getting so tight-necked that a slighter older airplane, with slightly older technology and slightly higher fuel burn can make a big difference in profits?

This is one reason Northwest Airlines is hanging onto its DC-9s and selling its A319s to the Russians.
S7 is taking as many as they can get and registering them in the Bahamas. How long will they last?  bomb   bouncy   hissyfit 
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
Poitin
Posts: 2651
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:32 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:06 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 10):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
Quoting N710PS (Reply 6):
Unfortuneately no beer cans can be made of these either.

One of the nicer myths of aviation... Wink



Quoting Aloges (Reply 21):
The "myth" is that all airplanes become beer cans, not that Airbus chose to build a lot of composites into the A340. In reality, there's a lot of things you can make out of aviation alloys once you've recycled them.

Interesting shown on Satellite TV, and I assume cable, called Boneyard. They recently had one about airplanes

http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=228708

They had a show on about what happens to aircraft, including the destruction of a 747, which was melted down. Then it showed what the metal is used for -- it either goes in to new aircraft metal or is used in automotive castings. While it is difficult to use recycled aircraft aluminum for beer cans, it can be if the metal is refined, but it is still much cheaper than making new aluminum from bauxite. Since aircraft aluminum contains quite a bit of silicon, it can be used to cast aluminum engine blocks and other parts of automobile engines directly. Your car probably has an engine block that was once an airplane.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 5165
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:06 am

Quoting Nwarooster (Reply 26):
How long will they last?

Not as long as your DC-9s.  Wink
 
mhodgson
Posts: 4673
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 8:47 pm

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:00 am

For what its worth, the A340 has been taped up, and is currently sitting on the west side of the airport next to the Corsair B743, implying it could be waiting a little while! It was also missing a winglet on arrival at GYR.
No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
 
JAM747
Posts: 524
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:17 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:59 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 18):
Does anyone know if this particular airplane had any special problems or issues? I suspect that the years that the airplane spend with BeeWee were intense ones for this airplane.

I was wondering the same thing. Does anyone know if this bird was the same that did an emergency landing with one of the main landing gears up while flying for Virgin? I believe that the plane that had this mishap later flew with BWIA.

It might not be unusual these days for a airplane to scrapped sooner than they used to be years ago. The market has alot of pressures such competition, rising fuel costs, and changes in technology which can make realtively young frames seem out dated. It does not matter if it is a A or B aircraft, they all face the same pressures. If events such as 9/11 or steep rise in fuel costs did not occur in the last few years we might still see many more planes such as 727s, 747 classics, DC10, etc carrying passengers. As someone mentioned, the value of this A340 scrapped might be worth more than it being in service. A aircraft is NOT scrapped only because it has has met its operational limits.
 
purplebox
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:43 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:26 pm

Quoting N471WN (Thread starter):
registered D-AIEL and owned by Lufthansa Technik

Does anybody know why it is now owned by Lufthansa Technik?

PurpleBox.
Next Flights:LHR-BOG,BOG-GYE,MDE-BOG-PTY,PTY-BOG-CTG,SMR-BOG-LHR - all on AV
 
KBGRbillT
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:15 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:33 pm

Quoting N471WN (Thread starter):
According to ATDB, the first A-340 scrapping will take place at Goodyear and is ship #16 registered D-AIEL



Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 4):
And here as D-AEIL the day it was ferried to XFW from MUC.

Which tail number is it? I took a photo of it at BGR the other day when it was on its' way to GYR and I want to upload the photo with the correct tail number. Thanks
 
AApilot2b
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 12:38 pm

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:52 pm

No. Technically, I think this one was scrapped before it.  Wink


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Felix Goetting

 
TWAtwaTWA
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 5:18 pm

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:53 pm

Quoting AApilot2b (Reply 33):
No. Technically, I think this one was scrapped before it. Wink

Touche' !
We're your kind of airline. Uh, I mean, We *were* your kind of airline.
 
Wsp
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 7:43 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:37 pm

Quoting N710PS (Reply 14):
Because of the material that the Airbus was built with Alogas. Not to debate it at all. There is a little more in the way of composite in the frame of the airbus and as a result the lifespan on it stands firm. Boeing opted to a slightly diffrent approach on the 777 that is all. There time will come. Relax.

Interesting theory. Do you have any source that would substantiate that?
 
andrewuber
Posts: 2142
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:45 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:40 pm

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 4):
VS as G-VSKY "China Girl" 01/1994 - 11/2003

This is the A340 that had the MLG failure in Heathrow back in '97:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Perry harris
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Perry harris



I've heard the "planned service life" of Airbus aircraft (besides the A300) is 12-15 years. Looking at the recent A320 scrappings that are starting to happen, I'd say this is fairly accurate.
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 18261
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:57 pm

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 36):
I've heard the "planned service life" of Airbus aircraft (besides the A300) is 12-15 years.

I think you heard wrong. Do you think airlines and, more relevantly, leasing companies would be buying them by the thousands if that were really the case?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Kangar
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2000 8:11 pm

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:15 pm

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 36):
I've heard the "planned service life" of Airbus aircraft (besides the A300) is 12-15 years. Looking at the recent A320 scrappings that are starting to happen, I'd say this is fairly accurate.

Whoever you heard that from is lying to you.
 
kappel
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:48 pm

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:15 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 15):
Am I the only one not sad to see an A340 scrapped?

Sadly, I think you are not. As a aviation fan myself, I love all aircraft. I recently flew the a343 for the first time myself (CX) and I loved it. Just like I loved my first 772 flight last year. I always regretted not getting a chance to hop on a DC10, but I am certainly planning a trip on a KL MD11 before they're gone.

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 11):
Why does this always come back in a discussion about an Airbus being scrapped, but never when equally young, or younger, Boeing aircraft (like the 1995 777 a while back) go to the chopper?

Good point. I have noticed the same thing.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 22):
Pssst dude, your bias is showing...

No it isn't. I certainly have no bias one way or the other, but I have noticed the same thing. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 36):
I've heard the "planned service life" of Airbus aircraft (besides the A300) is 12-15 years. Looking at the recent A320 scrappings that are starting to happen, I'd say this is fairly accurate.

I wonder why there are plenty a320's that are 15+ years old are still flying then. How many a320's are actually in the desert right now and how many have been scrapped? IIRC not that many. Where did you hear that if I may ask (about the planned service life)? No bashing, I'm just curious.
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
 
scouseflyer
Posts: 2192
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:02 pm

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:23 pm

Quoting Nwarooster (Reply 26):
This is one reason Northwest Airlines is hanging onto its DC-9s and selling its A319s to the Russians.

Isn't that partly to do with the DC9s being paid for and there being outstanding finance on them A319s?
 
Wsp
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 7:43 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:08 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 40):
Isn't that partly to do with the DC9s being paid for and there being outstanding finance on them A319s?

No, actually its just misinformation. They are reducing both their DC9 fleet and their A319 fleet.
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 4898
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:25 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
Is that true or is this Airbus bashing?



Quoting Aloges (Reply 10):
I've often read that one, and not coming from A vs B people. And why not, lighter - but less persistent - materials mean lighter aircraft and less fuel consumption - if you guarantee a certain amount of cycles and the customer buys, then every single cycle above that guaranteed number is a bonus paid for by higher fuel costs.

Widebody designed in operating cycles:

A330 - 40,000
A340 - 20,000

B747 - 20,000
B767 - 50,000
B777 - 44,000

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 36):

I've heard the "planned service life" of Airbus aircraft (besides the A300) is 12-15 years. Looking at the recent A320 scrappings that are starting to happen, I'd say this is fairly accurate.

Narrow bodies:

A320 - 48,000
B737 - 75,000

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...a26d6862571570057fa02?OpenDocument
 
Rj111
Posts: 3007
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:02 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:27 pm

Why make an aircraft too durable? That just means it has to be built heavier and more fuel hungry.  Wink
 
ehho
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:26 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:43 pm

Quoting N231YE (Reply 20):
The technology is getting better, but the build quality is getting cheaper (as in junk).

Valid point, I've thought about it myself a lot. I remember that 80s' and especially 70s' cars could be fixed and fixed again once they became old, but with modern (90s' and later) cars, they just die on you when they hit 10 years and 300.000km. There's electronics that goes wrong, complicated parts that are not made for replacement, etc. etc. Looks like the life cycle of technology is getting shorter, probably holds true for aircraft as well.
"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
 
Candid76
Posts: 562
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 5:10 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:48 pm

Quoting JAM747 (Reply 30):
Does anyone know if this bird was the same that did an emergency landing with one of the main landing gears up while flying for Virgin? I believe that the plane that had this mishap later flew with BWIA.

This aircraft was a heap. I've only flown on a tiny handful of A340s (300 and 600 series) and this particular airframe really was dreadful. I posted a long trip report a couple of years back after I experienced a major hydraulic failure with this machine on departure from Barbados and ended up stuck in Trinidad for days. So although I do like A340s, mainly because I prefer four engined aircraft to twins, I'm not sorry to see this one go, if indeed it does go.
 
ComeAndGo
Posts: 815
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:58 pm

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:50 pm

Quoting JAM747 (Reply 30):
I was wondering the same thing. Does anyone know if this bird was the same that did an emergency landing with one of the main landing gears up while flying for Virgin? I believe that the plane that had this mishap later flew with BWIA.

there's another incident where a virgin a340 hit a fence at the end of the runway on takeoff. One long takeoff and something got stuck in the wheels but apparently nothing happened to the plane.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 39):
I always regretted not getting a chance to hop on a DC10, but I am certainly planning a trip on a KL MD11 before they're gone.

the md11 is a stretched dc10. So if you'll fly the md11 in the future you'll have flown a dc10. You haven't missed anything. If love old planes stick with northwest, they found a way to maintain their dc9s until they're 60yrs old. They'll be around for another 20yrs. go maddog go.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 40):
Isn't that partly to do with the DC9s being paid for and there being outstanding finance on them A319s?

it's some bankruptcy issue and not coming to an agreement with some lessors so the a319 have to go early. I'm sure they'll get new ones straight from airbus.
 
flytuitravel
Posts: 491
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 2:46 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:58 pm

Would have thought it would be an A342 before an A343.......


FLYTUITRAVEL.
 
Ferroviarius
Posts: 257
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:28 am

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:19 pm

Quoting N231YE (Reply 20):
I am wondering about that too.

If not, and seeing that airplanes are getting scrapped at younger and younger ages, I wonder if:


The technology is getting better, but the build quality is getting cheaper (as in junk). This isn't an A vs. B, more more of all companies. Example, why did a washing machine built in the 70's last 25 years, and yet today's last only 10 (if one is lucky)?

-or-


The airline industry is getting so tight-necked that a slighter older airplane, with slightly older technology and slightly higher fuel burn can make a big difference in profits?

Good morning.

II would like to second N231YE for his comment. Though there might be some more aspects:

Concerning washing machines and the like, it might really depend on what you buy. The Miele or Electrolux or Husqvarna would do the job for a much longer period of time than some other models.

Concerning the technological development;
I recall that one of the CEOs of Deutsche Bahn (German Rail System) once was very angry about the fact that some model E194, E140 and E150 heavy goods train locos simply wouldn't get worn out, how hard you ever used them.
They had been built and designed to be used for 50 or more years (and those who had built them at the time had done a good job).
There were quite some discussions going on when they finally were phased out anyway (and there it was definitely NOT possible to re-use some components in more modern engines, since the oldest machines had passed their 40th birthday).
Some minor private companies would have liked to purchase these engines but DB wouldn't sell them to potential competitors.
The reason for all the discussions and arguing was that the development in technology had made the use of the old engines un-economical for a major actor, while minor companies still could have used them economically. However, the big guy didn't like the juniors to take an advantage out of that situation.

Today's machines are built for intensive use during a limited number of years since the cycle of technological invention and change has become faster and faster (and is in a way accelerating exponentially). In other words, certain groups of "humanity", their "civilization" and technology as a part of it, are "changing" or "developing" at a steadily faster pace (though, theologically, remaining the same old sinners all the time, but on a much more perfect level).

Best,

Ferroviarius
 
Rheinbote
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 9:30 pm

RE: First A-340 Scrapping

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:25 pm

FWIW, go here for a FLIGHT census on ageing airliners with design service goal data in cycles/hours.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...6/ageing-airliner-census-1999.html

Some select data from the 2002 census (couldn't find that in the FLIGHT archive).

type EIS cycles hours

DC-8 1959 25.000 50.000
DC-9 1965 40.000 35.000
DC-10 1970 42.000 60.000 (-10/-30, -40 30.000 clycles only)

L1011 1972 115.000 210.000

A300 1974 36.000 60.000
A310 1983 35.000 60.000
A320 1988 48.000 60.000
A330 1994 40.000*
A340 1993 20.000*

B737 1968 75.000 51.000 (Classic)
B747 1970 20.000 60.000 (Classic)
B757 1983 100.000 -
B767 1982 100.000 -
B737 1984 75.000 51.000 (737-3/-4/-5)
B777 1995 40.000*

Mind ou these are the original service goals, which can be and usually are extended based on operational experience and fatigue testing, e.g. the DC-8 was extended to 50.000 cycles and 100.000 hours.

It is known in the industry that the early Airbus types had a low design life compared to Boeing types, especially the 320 which for a SR aircraft is 'challenged' in cycles.

Does anyone have data for A380 and 787 on hand?

[Edited 2007-07-25 11:31:25]
* some figures added from a post above

[Edited 2007-07-25 11:33:29]

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos