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RICARIZA
Posts: 2029
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:56 am

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:39 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 47):
Hi Ricardo,
I think you were right in that BAQ is already "open skies". Aerocivil's resolution 3299 is dated 16th July. It is an unilateral decision, and not formally linked to the US - Colombia bilateral. BAQ is now open to airlines from any origin, and not just from the US.

Thanks for the update. I thought i was still to be announced. Well, great for BAQ a close to my heart city and the city that gave birth to aviation in Latin America...

[Edited 2007-07-29 21:10:50]
 
yow
Posts: 2125
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RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:25 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 48):
(and Ottawa and Toronto from MIA).

The MIA flights are merely to connect people to the cruise ships. YOW didn't even have them last year and I'll be surprised if they return for winter 07-08.

[Edited 2007-07-30 04:26:01]
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4603
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:06 pm

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 12):
What about FLL-CCS-FLL? Still waiting for authorization from Venezuela's authorities?

I'd personally LOVE to see this happen...
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26701
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:29 pm

And the first airport foaming at the mouth for a flight to Fort Lauderdale is...

Niagara Falls

http://www.niagara-gazette.com/local/gnnlocalnews_story_211171611.html
 
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jetpixx
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RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:53 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 53):

I read the article - but I am a little blurry still. Is this for flights into YSN? ...or is there another airport in the region that I am missing?

Thanks.
 
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na747
Posts: 91
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RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:51 pm

Quoting Jetpixx (Reply 54):
or is there another airport in the region that I am missing?

The Buffalo areas has 2 airports: the better known BUF and about 15 miles north is IAG which lies 4 miles east of Niagara Falls, NY. IAG has 2 runways: one at 9,829ft and the other one at 5,189ft according to airnav.com.

The few airlines that have previously used IAG seemed to all have failed there.
Wonder if NK can stirr up something if it decides to fly to IAG.
 
nkops
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RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting NA747 (Reply 55):
Wonder if NK can stirr up something if it decides to fly to IAG.

I don't see us going there... we really aren't a secondary airport carrier... we seem to hit the major airports (ORD,LGA,DTW,BOS).. if we went up there I think it would defenitely be BUF or YYZ. However, I don't really see a domestic station opening up anytime soon anyways (referring to BUF of couurse.)
 
WesternA318
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RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 53):
And the first airport foaming at the mouth for a flight to Fort Lauderdale is...

Niagara Falls

LOL, quite literally, eh?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 9119
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RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:02 am

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 4):
I wish they would stop building up FLL. That airport can't handle much more from them. They have space and gates here in DTW (where they started). They should give NWA a good run for the money if they did some of these flights from DTW.. I know they would need to have bigger aircraft. Maybe more A321's or A319's.

The market for nonstop DTW - Carribean / Central / South America would be very difficult to fly with any sort of regularly scheduled service. NW flies less than a handful of routes weekend-seasonal to the Carribean and that is realistically the best than NK could do. Seasonal charters also handle some of the leisure demand. The concentrated VFR demand isn't there for DTW, while yes there is some it is very dispersed across many places, hence why AA through MIA and/or NK through FLL connections offer suitable service. Nonstops from FLL, where the O&D is exponentially higher is a much better bet than flying long-thin routes from DTW.

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 4):
In the last 2 years they seem to have forgot about DTW. And something is up. NK just layed off 150 res. agents out of their Eastpoint location. Are they planning on pulling out of DTW all together???

They are not leaving DTW, but maintaining status quo for now. The most recent addition was DTW-BOS. They plan on taking 8 gates in the new North terminal. DTW expansion will be secondary to FLL Internation expansion. DTW is already saturated between NK, WN, FL, F9, and HP/US with few remaining viable LCC markets left, plus with the more nimble NW these days. Yes, NW may be experiences some scheduling hiccups in the short term, which they appear to be addressing after this month, but I've heard plenty of horror stories out of NK people too. So no airline is immune to anything.

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 13):
If BOS and SFO are on that list, that leaves up to 5. HOU and MSY make sense.. how bout DFW, PHX, and DEN?

NK tried DEN and pulled out, and I don't see them going back between the F9 & WN battle, along with UA.
Wasn't NK in DFW at one point in time also?
 
Humberside
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RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:47 am

Quoting NA747 (Reply 55):
The few airlines that have previously used IAG seemed to all have failed there.

Currently Myrtle Beach Direct have scheduled charter service to Myrtle Beach
 
MAH4546
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RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Laud

Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:55 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 58):
NK tried DEN and pulled out, and I don't see them going back between the F9 & WN battle, along with UA.
Wasn't NK in DFW at one point in time also?

Denver was pulled because of performance issues more than anything else. They only had MD80s back then and, honestly, the MD80 was a terrible aircraft to route on FLL-DEN. Frequently was weight restricted, they had to kick off people, and all those ski bags and cruise ship luggage didn't help.

Dallas was tried in 2005-2006. It performed poorly. The surprise launch that year was Atlanta, which has been a huge hit for Spirit. Who would have though they would still be flying ATL-MCO/TPA/LAS when they launched them as an attack on AirTran's Detroit expansion?
 
PVD757
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RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:57 am

Having read through the RFP, it is clearly more aimed at non-domestic markets. I'm sure there will be several airports in the U.S. that will submit one though.
 
MAH4546
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:06 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 61):
Having read through the RFP, it is clearly more aimed at non-domestic markets. I'm sure there will be several airports in the U.S. that will submit one though.

They will literally get an application from just about every decent sized airport on the Eastern seaboard. No doubt in my mind the following airports will be applying, among others:

Allentown
Baltimore
Birmingham
Charlotte
Gary
Greensboro
Gulfport/Biloxi
Hartford
Memphis
Mid-America/St. Louis
Portsmouth, NH
Raleigh
Rockford, Ill.
Rochester
Savannah
Stewart/Newburgh

I only expect them to pick two or three domestic airports, assuming some strong applications. Many of those airports don't stand a chance at landing Spirit, but they're going to apply.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:10 am

For an additional laugh, Youngstown, OH - YNG is attempting to lure NK.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:26 am

Well I made sure the director of Marketing at MSY knew about NK's little proposal. She told me that she'll be passing the info along to the right channels. Personally, I think NK could a MSY-FLL and be successful at it....WN only has one nonstop....and NK would get some Caribbean connecting traffic.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:36 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 63):
For an additional laugh, Youngstown, OH - YNG is attempting to lure NK.

No surprise. They've been trying to lure Spirit for more than a year now.
 
MSYtristar
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Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:41 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 63):
For an additional laugh, Youngstown, OH - YNG is attempting to lure NK.

I think Pan Am 4 (or whatever it is now) flew there for what....a month or two? Or maybe they annouced servcie there but never started it.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26701
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:55 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 66):
I think Pan Am 4 (or whatever it is now) flew there for what....a month or two? Or maybe they annouced servcie there but never started it.

They have Allegiant service right now, but I've heard it does poorly.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 64):
Personally, I think NK could a MSY-FLL and be successful at it

Agreed.

Mark or anyone else, know of NK looking closely at MSY (now or in the past)?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26701
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 68):
Mark or anyone else, know of NK looking closely at MSY (now or in the past)?

Nope, but my money is on MSY sending in an application trying for not only FLL service, but SAP service too.
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:29 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 69):
Nope, but my money is on MSY sending in an application trying for not only FLL service, but SAP service too.

I never thought of that...it would make sense I guess...ever since TA bailed, all MSY has now to SAP are seasonal charters (via Miami Air). Obviously, demand from MSY to Honduras in general has never been a problem. We'll just see what happens.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:50 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 69):
but my money is on MSY sending in an application trying for not only FLL service, but SAP service too.

...heck, why not throw CUN into that one as well?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26701
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:12 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 71):

...heck, why not throw CUN into that one as well?

At one point Spirit had big plans for CUN. They applied for ORD/DFW/TPA/MCO-CUN. They didn't get O'Hare, while they pulled their MCO and DFW applications. They were awarded TPA-CUN, and even made it bookable, but it never launched.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:17 am

yeah, I meant for MSY though.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5329
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:22 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 67):
They have Allegiant service right now, but I've heard it does poorly.

Allegiant sees annual load factors out of YNG in the 80 to 85% range. I think the real question is could the YNG market absorb more seats geared for leisure travel. I'm not sure but also don't know the market well enough.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 9119
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 74):
Allegiant sees annual load factors out of YNG in the 80 to 85% range. I think the real question is could the YNG market absorb more seats geared for leisure travel. I'm not sure but also don't know the market well enough.

Because of their business model, and ultra-low fare leisure vacation package affiliation, G4 generally needs at least an 85%-90% load factor to break even. They have been holding their own at YNG but nothing to get excited about as they only fly to MCO on a less than daily frequency and its not even year-round service either.

NK would never think about about going into YNG, it is way, way to small of a market than currently doesn't even have year round scheduled air service. There was a lengthy thread a few weeks ago regarding YNG, as they are applying for a SCASD grant to get scheduled airline service restored to either ORD, CVG, CLT, or CMH.

Traffic tends to prefer PIT, CAK, CLE and even ERI.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5329
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:20 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 75):
Because of their business model, and ultra-low fare leisure vacation package affiliation, G4 generally needs at least an 85%-90% load factor to break even.

I think you are a little high there.

Their system-wide scheduled service load factor in the 2nd quarter was 85%.

In Q1 2007 they had a system-wide scheduled service load factor of 82.5% and made money.

2006 was only 80.7% LF on the scheduled side.
 
laca773
Posts: 2097
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:42 pm

How's NK doing on their LAX-FLL/DTW flights?
Just as important how is their redeye doing to GUA? There are quite a few flights leaving around the same time their flight on TA, UA, AA, DL.
If they expand into South America they'll need to do some sort of upgraded inflight service to compete at all with the excellent airline LA, CM.....

LACA773
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3259
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:20 pm

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 77):
Just as important how is their redeye doing to GUA?

FROM GUATEMALA
Flight ..... Departure ....... Arrives......... Equipment
NK144 ... GUA 07:40 ... FLL 12:05 ..... A319-132
NK863 ... GUA 19:40 ... LAX 23:50 ..... A319-132

TO GUATEMALA
Flight ..... Departure ....... Arrives......... Equipment
NK143 ... FLL 18:10 ... GUA 18:50 ...... A319-132
NK864 ... LAX 00:59 ... GUA 06:45 ...... A319-132

I am supposed the aircraft coming FLL-GUA shift to GUA-LAX
I am supposed the aircraft coming LAX-GUA shift to GUA-FLL
They operate daily.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 77):
If they expand into South America they'll need to do some sort of upgraded inflight service to compete at all with the excellent airline LA, CM.....

GUA belongs to Central America. Some other destinations served by NK in this region are MGA, SAP and SJO.
LIM is the only airport in South America that is currently operated by NK.
Regards.
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:27 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
They are really just playing a game of "how low can you go" to see how desperate some communities are to get a flight to Nassau. I could see them adding more flights from Nassau and Cancun to the mainland, but not anything outside of that.

I can see some sort of Tampa-Nassau service with a 4x weekly A319 service similar to Orlando-Nassau, it might be a struggle initially, but I'm confident NK can make it work, that's about it, unless it's something out of the box.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 38):

Well, In the past any suggestion for PBI-Latinamerican flights have been received with suspicion if not anger by fellow a.neters.

The only Latin American route I see working from PBI is AA to SJU, even that would be seasonal or on a reduced frequency.
 
laca773
Posts: 2097
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:59 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 78):

GUA belongs to Central America. Some other destinations served by NK in this region are MGA, SAP and SJO.
LIM is the only airport in South America that is currently operated by NK.
Regards

Thanks for the information. It's greatly apreciated.
Does anyone know how they are doing on their GUA flights?

LACA773
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26701
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:55 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 79):
I can see some sort of Tampa-Nassau service with a 4x weekly A319 service similar to Orlando-Nassau, it might be a struggle initially, but I'm confident NK can make it work, that's about it, unless it's something out of the box.

Spirit doesn't fly MCO-NAS. They offered a temporary service this past spring, because they had a contract with Atlantis. When Atlantis opened their new expansion in March, there was a rise in traffic from Florida for people going to check it out, so Atlantis contracted with Spirit to temporarily offer MCO-NAS.
 
N587NK
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:26 pm

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:29 pm

As for the GUA flights, I've done that several times and its always been fairly full. so less than 120 pax out 144 seats on any of the flights I've done. Now what the yields are on those flights I have no idea.

The aircraft is routed FLL-GUA-LAX-GUA-FLL
 
N587NK
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:26 pm

RE: Spirit To Add 10 Destinations Out Of Fort Lauderda

Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:30 pm

As for the GUA flights, I've done that several times and its always been fairly full. No less than 120 pax out 144 seats on any of the flights I've done. Now what the yields are on those flights I have no idea.

The aircraft is routed FLL-GUA-LAX-GUA-FLL

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