Copa - AeroMexico Announce Codeshare

LAXintl · Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:51 am

Seemingly more like a one-way code share allowing CM to expand its presence in additional Mexican cities.

I wonder why AM is not taking the opportunity to place its code on CM flights to places such as Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Venezuela etc.. via the PTY hub?

Quote:
Copa Airlines Announces New Codeshare Agreement With AeroMexico
Monday July 30
Passengers will benefit from enhanced connectivity throughout Mexico and Latin America

PANAMA CITY, July 30 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Copa Airlines, subsidiary of Copa Holdings S.A. (NYSE: CPA - News), announced today the signing of a codeshare agreement with AeroMexico, to begin on August 1, 2007.

In its initial stage, Copa Airlines will place its designator code on AeroMexico-operated flights beyond Mexico City to 17 cities: Acapulco, Aguascalientes, Leon/Bajio, Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, Culiacan, Cancun, Guadalajara, Hermosillo, Merida, Monterrey, Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta, Los Cabos, Tijuana, Villahermosa and Ixtapa Zihuatanejo. Additionally, AeroMexico will place its designator code on Copa Airlines-operated flights between the Hub of the Americas in Panama City to Mexico City, Cancun and Guadalajara.

"The agreement enables Copa Airlines to further expand the reach and scope of its Hub of the Americas in Panama City by providing us connectivity to many of Mexico's most important cities," mentioned Jorge Garcia, Commercial VP of Copa Airlines. "Additionally, this alliance will further promote commerce, trade and tourism between Mexico and Latin America, as passengers will have more options to conveniently connect between Mexico and the region," he added.

Full Story
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070730/mxm001.html?.v=85

luisca · Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:24 am

Good, this was bound to happen, CM through P5 are applying to operate MED-PTY-MEX and BOG-PTY-MTY. I would have thought that AM could have flown to PTY with CM codesharing, seeing how CM lost one of its PTY-MEX frequencies.

EddieDude · Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:57 am

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
I wonder why AM is not taking the opportunity to place its code on CM flights

Quoting Luisca (Reply 1):
would have thought that AM could have flown to PTY with CM codesharing, seeing how CM lost one of its PTY-MEX frequencies.

I guess that eventually AM will also place its code on some of CM's flights... I also think that AM flying to PTY is something that we could expect in the future (although I am not sure if the bilateral restricts flights to only one designated airline and if MX is finally flying its own metal to PTY).

By the way, do you guys and girls think that the MX-CM codeshare agreement will be terminated soon?

I also wonder if CM will enter into codeshare agreements with the other SkyTeam members such as DL soon.

2travel2know · Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:52 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 2):
(although I am not sure if the bilateral restricts flights to only one designated airline and if MX is finally flying its own metal to PTY).

I think the bilateral only restricts frequencies between MEX and PTY, pretty sure outside of fllights into MEX (surely TLC not counted as MEX), Panama and México do have a kind of open skies bilateral. But don't quote me on that.

Another way CM and AM could extend their code-share agreement would be to code-share PTY-XXX flights to AM and XXX-MEX flights to CM, wherever XXX is an airport which justify the CM-AM codeshare.. GUA, MGA and SAP come to mind. I should double check if CM-CO have a similar code-share agreement, even if I've seen CM passengers connect with CO @ MGA.

luisca · Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:57 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 2):
By the way, do you guys and girls think that the MX-CM codeshare agreement will be terminated soon?

Already been terminated.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 2):
I also wonder if CM will enter into codeshare agreements with the other SkyTeam members such as DL soon.

There is not really a need for DL to codeshare with CM IMO, maybe the new JFK flight operated by Delta could be codeshared with CM.

2travel2know · Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:09 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 4):
There is not really a need for DL to codeshare with CM IMO, maybe the new JFK flight operated by Delta could be codeshared with CM.

It'll be interesting to see DL-CM codeshare, but none of DL PTY flights fit in CM hub banks times. I've this feeling DL eventually would like to try LAX-PTY, but I bet no way a CVG-PTY.

EddieDude · Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:38 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 4):
There is not really a need for DL to codeshare with CM IMO, maybe the new JFK flight operated by Delta could be codeshared with CM.

Well, perhaps you are right... But maybe DL could codeshare on CM's flights from PTY to (i) the U.S.; and (ii) cities in Latin America not served by DL. And of course CM could codeshare on DL's flights to PTY and selected domestic flights ex-JFK and ATL.

But more important than this, I wonder when DL, NW, etcetera will start entering into mileage accrual and redemption agreements with CM. Per the article, it seems AM and CM will have a mileage agreement in place too.

[Edited 2007-07-31 02:41:04]

aer · Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:07 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 3):

IMO, with AM's routing, my guess is that GUA would not be a code-share city.

pzurita1 · Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:00 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 1):
CM through P5 are applying to operate MED-PTY-MEX and BOG-PTY-MTY.

BOG-PTY-MTY has already been cleared by Colombian authorities. Now it is a matter of DGAC (Mexican Aeronautical Civil Authority). Hopefully we could see this flight happening by the end of October.

PZ

rojo · Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:33 am

In my opinion, AM should be the one flying the 3rd MEX-PTY-MEX frequency CM wanted (Bilateral allows 2 Mexican airlines on the route). It will be a blow-out for MX, unless they finally get 5th freedom rights for PTY-CCS-PTY.

By the way, does anyone know if MX's plane flying MEX-PTY stays in PTY for 18 hours in order to fly the return leg PTY-MEX? Under the current schedule, the airplane is supposed to operate PTY-CCS-PTY on those 18 hours (overnight in CCS)...

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 6):
But more important than this, I wonder when DL, NW, etcetera will start entering into mileage accrual and redemption agreements with CM. Per the article, it seems AM and CM will have a mileage agreement in place too

CM uses CO One Pass as its FF program, therefore, CM passengers (who are One Pass members) can accrue and redeem miles on DL, NW and CO. On the other side, NW Worlperks members have been able to accrue and redeem miles on all CM operated flights for more than a year, and miles earned are elite qualifying. DL is the only Skyteam airline in the US missing an accrual and redemption agreement with CM.

EddieDude · Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:30 am

Quoting Rojo (Reply 9):
NW Worlperks members have been able to accrue and redeem miles on all CM operated flights for more than a year, and miles earned are elite qualifying. DL is the only Skyteam airline in the US missing an accrual and redemption agreement with CM.

Did not know about NW, thanks. How about AF, KL and the rest of SkyTeam?

ghost77 · Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:15 am

Quoting Pzurita1 (Reply 8):
BOG-PTY-MTY has already been cleared by Colombian authorities. Now it is a matter of DGAC (Mexican Aeronautical Civil Authority). Hopefully we could see this flight happening by the end of October.

Hopefully they get clear green light on this one! Any news?

Quoting Rojo (Reply 9):
In my opinion, AM should be the one flying the 3rd MEX-PTY-MEX frequency CM wanted (Bilateral allows 2 Mexican airlines on the route). It will be a blow-out for MX, unless they finally get 5th freedom rights for PTY-CCS-PTY.

Indeed a blow and a smart movement! No offense, but it would revenue more than what i does its Managua service.

g77

2travel2know · Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:32 am

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
Indeed a blow and a smart movement! No offense, but it would revenue more than what i does its Managua service.

I know a SAP (or MGA) stop enroute to MEX might not be attractive for most passangers, but with AM MEX-SAP-PTY, CM could add some extra needed PTY-MEX-PTY seats daytime and SAP could get a PTY daytime flight (currently it's TGU via SJO daytime)..
If AM is to keep GUA, SAP and MGA, better for them would be to fly MEX-GUA-SAP-MGA evenings with early morning return.

SJOtoLIR · Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:24 am

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
I wonder why AM is not taking the opportunity to place its code on CM flights to places such as Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Venezuela etc.. via the PTY hub?

Why not? PTY is doing very good transferring passenger from PTY to several points in South America: CCS, LIM, EZE, GRU, SCL, UIO and others...

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 3):
Another way CM and AM could extend their code-share agreement would be to code-share PTY-XXX flights to AM and XXX-MEX flights to CM, wherever XXX is an airport which justify the CM-AM codeshare

Support that I have written before.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 4):
maybe the new JFK flight operated by Delta could be codeshared with CM.

Maybe. CM gets its own PTY-JFK and CO flies PTY-EWR. Both are codesharing CO and CM respectively.
So, why CM has not yet started a codeshare with DL on the leg PTY-ATL?

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 5):
I've this feeling DL eventually would like to try LAX-PTY

Yes. DL currently operates LAX-GUA and some seasonal LAX-BZE and LAX-LIR.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 12):
SAP could get a PTY daytime flight (currently it's TGU via SJO daytime)..

CM 796.....……SAP 06:24….....……PTY 10:40……....…Stopped in SJO.
I have recently seen their Embraer 190 in such route.

Regards.

SJOtoLIR · Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:38 pm

Quoting Rojo (Reply 9):
By the way, does anyone know if MX's plane flying MEX-PTY stays in PTY for 18 hours in order to fly the return leg PTY-MEX? Under the current schedule, the airplane is supposed to operate PTY-CCS-PTY on those 18 hours (overnight in CCS)...

MX 375........MEX 01:05........CCS 07:00........A320........NONSTOP
MX 374........CCS 08:10........MEX 12:15........A320........NONSTOP
.
.
MX 381.........MEX 14:00........PTY 17:40........A319.........NONSTOP
MX 380.........PTY 11:15........MEX 14:45........A319.........NONSTOP
.
Both CCS and PTY are operated separately.
There is no information about the use of the aircraft on those almost 18 hours... confused

2travel2know · Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:10 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 14):
MX 381.........MEX 14:00........PTY 17:40........A319.........NONSTOP
MX 380.........PTY 11:15........MEX 14:45........A319.........NONSTOP
.
Both CCS and PTY are operated separately.
There is no information about the use of the aircraft on those almost 18 hours...

Any intersting suggestion for MX as to what to do with that A319 currently spending 17 hours in PTY?

luisde8cd · Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 14):
Both CCS and PTY are operated separately.
There is no information about the use of the aircraft on those almost 18 hours

Under the current Panama-Mexico bilateral, Mexican airlines are allowed 5th freedom rights between PTY and CCS. That means MX could continue its PTY flight to CCS and carry pax between PTY & CCS. That would work really great with MX as Copa currently struggles to offer enough seats for its PTY-CCS-PTY flights (they have upgraded both dailies to 738 from 73G a year ago) and have announced a 3rd daily for winter. AV takes a big chunk of O&D pax between CCS and PTY via BOG. That flight would also offer more seats between CCS & MEX which is also under the monopoly of MX and their daily A320 is usually very full. Currently many pax fly between CCS & MEX via PTY (Copa), SJO (Taca) or BOG (Avianca).

The problem is that Panama won't authorize MX to extend its flight to CCS.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis

luisca · Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:10 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 15):
Any intersting suggestion for MX as to what to do with that A319 currently spending 17 hours in PTY?

Right now they tow it to the Diplomatic ramp and it stays there all night and morning and is not moved till the CM flights are out, PTY does not have enough gates to allow it to stay on the terminal. What I dont get is why dond they just fly it back to MEX the same day?

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 16):
The problem is that Panama won't authorize MX to extend its flight to CCS

Mexico and Panama have a fight going on over the whole third MEX frequency for CM, I dont know which country started it but it looks like not authorizing is retaliation for that. MX and CM broke their codeshare agreement, which was not entirely unexpected because CM is moving closer to being a full SkyTeam member and MX is obviously Star. The problem came because the breakup was not friendly, both airlines accusing each other and taking out full page adds in Panamanian and Mexican papers.

I have a feeling the Panamanian government is a little to comfortable with CM and CM is fighting to not allow that extension because PTY-CCS is a BIG market for CM, the flights are almost impossible to get on usually SOLD OUT and if you get a seat it is usually in a full Y fare. A LOT of Venezuelans fleeing Chavez are reallocating in Panama City.

EddieDude · Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:25 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 17):
being a full SkyTeam member and MX is obviously Star.

Huh? CM will become an associate SkyTeam member, not full.

MX has not been with Star Alliance for years. They keep ties with NZ and LH but that's it. They are now much closer to AA, IB, LA, CX and QF.

2travel2know · Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 17):
Right now they tow it to the Diplomatic ramp and it stays there all night and morning and is not moved till the CM flights are out, PTY does not have enough gates to allow it to stay on the terminal. What I dont get is why dond they just fly it back to MEX the same day?

PTY does have remote gates, some of which include those at the Diplomatic Ramp (which should be located at the Servicio Aereo Nacional SAN base).
Have MX tried the "conditional PTY-CCS/CCS-PTY stop-over traffic" approach with the Panamanian Civil Aviation Authority? = MX is not to sell PTY-CCS or CCS-PTY tickets and will only fly PTY-CCS O/D passangers who are on a PTY stopover enroute from MEX to CCS or from CCS to MEX.

[Edited 2007-08-05 22:47:26]

Avianca · Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 19):
MX is not to sell PTY-CCS or CCS-PTY tickets and will only fly PTY-CCS O/D passangers who are on a PTY stopover enroute from MEX to CCS or from CCS to MEX.

a shame, the tickets from CCS to PTY are so high...

2travel2know · Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:51 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 20):
a shame, the tickets from CCS to PTY are so high...

Domestic CCS-MAR-CCS plus a CM MAR-PTY-MAR ticket isn't cheaper?
From Dec 15 check aslo CCS-POS-CCS plus CM POS-PTY-POS. Smile

luisca · Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:53 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18):
Huh? CM will become an associate SkyTeam member, not full.

The only difference is that an associate member has the frequent flyer program of another member and can not vote on certain things, but there is no difference besides that, I was just referring to the fact that CM will be part of SkyTeam soon, and I had no idea MX had left, thanks for the info.

SJOtoLIR · Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:09 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18):
Huh? CM will become an associate SkyTeam member, not full.

On February 2, 2007, Air Europa (UX), Copa Airlines(CM), and Kenya Airways(KQ) signed an agreement affirming their commitment to become associate members to Sky Team. CM has already established alliance and codeshares with CO, NW and now AM. These airlines are Sky Team members.

.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18):
MX has not been with Star Alliance for years.

MX left Star Alliance in 2004 after deciding not to renew a codeshare agreement.

.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18):
They are now much closer to AA, IB, LA, CX and QF.

It means MX is a potential One world member.

Regards.

EddieDude · Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:12 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 22):
The only difference is that an associate member has the frequent flyer program of another member and can not vote on certain things, but there is no difference besides that, I was just referring to the fact that CM will be part of SkyTeam soon

I think it is rather misleading to claim CM is going to be a full member (you wrote it, not me) when it has been said time and again they will be an associate member. Whether you think that having limited voting rights and using the sponsor member's F.F. program is much of a difference or not, the fact that there is a difference remains.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 22):
I had no idea MX had left

Indeed they left. Several threads were open on that subject here in a.net. Where have you been? Wink

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