I'm a bit perplexed on this one. It has always seemed to me that the largest a/c will be an airline's flagship. Is it always whcih a/c is bigger/larger? What about my examples here:

1. PIA...they have 747s, 772, and 773s. What exactly is the flagship there? I'd figure even though the 777s are somewhat smaller, because they are new and big, they are the flagships...but which one...the 772 or 773, or both?

2. LH will have both the A380 and the 748i. The 748i will start to fly after the A380...making it newer and just about as big (footprint-wise)...so which one, or both?

3. How about Swiss? don't they have both A333s and A340s? they are both the same size, but does the A340 take the cake because it has two more engines?

4. Aeroflot will fly both the A350 and the 787...which one will be the "Flagship?"


I'm sure you all can name even more unclear examples.

Any clear answers?

Whatever the airline calls its "Flagship" is determined by the marketing department nothing more. To the operations side an aircraft is nothing more or less than the metal designated for the route. When I worked for AA the MD-11 was marketed as a "flagship" or in AA speak "Luxury Liner" but the ground and air crews hated it as it was unreliable in the extreme and never truly lived up to the promises given by Douglas.

I'd say it's typically the equipment used on what the airline considers it's most prestigious route.

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2): I'd say it's typically the equipment used on what the airline considers it's most prestigious route.

does UA still have Flight #1 from ORD-HNL? And is it a 744?

It's whichever aircraft the CEO commandeers to go to San Trope or Saint Thomas or whatever expensive vacation he has planned.  

Quoting DIA (Reply 3): does UA still have Flight #1 from ORD-HNL? And is it a 744?

It's a 772...which I would consider to be their flagship.

An airline doesn't necessarily need to have a flagship.

At British Airways the flagship was obviously Concorde. Since her retirement most people have assumed the Boeing 747-436 to be the flagship which is more than logical. However, BA don't have any aircraft/type officially designated as a flagship as there is no need for one in today's industry. Aircraft from across the fleet are used in BA official images, and indeed VIP flights.

Even if BA were to order the A380 I think it's likely any publicity would be focused towards the (possibly) improved premium cabins onboard rather than using it as a 'flagship' icon simply based on the fact it's a new large aircraft.

I'd presume it would be the aircraft used on the airlines flight #1 too.

Quoting LouA340 (Reply 7): I'd presume it would be the aircraft used on the airlines flight #1 too.

CO #1 is IAH-HNL-GUM, and run by the 764. The 764 is not CO's flagship. That's the 777. Though the 764 is a nice plane...

edit: forgot poor GUM

[Edited 2007-07-31 17:19:58]

Defintion wise, a flagship is simply the largest (size wise) aircraft.

Another unclear example is SAS with the A333/A343. I guess in that case I'd say the A343 with its longer range. I guess for the most part, the bigger one is the flagship, unless it is significantly older, or only has old interiors IF it's "flagship competitor" also flies the same types of routes. For instance, I'd say that NW's flagship is still the B744, even though it has the old interior, since the A333 only flies the shorter European routes, while the B744 flies the historical and longer Asia routes.

Anyway, my opinion on flagships in the U.S.:
American: While the A300 holds the most passengers, that's just because its in high-density configuration. Using the standard "manufacturer-suggested" capacities, the 777 is larger. AA's flagship is the B772.
United: B744
Delta: B772
Northwest: B744
Continental: B772
US Airways: A333
Virgin America: A320
Frontier: A319
airTran: B73G
Spirit: A321
Hawaiian: B763
Aloha: B73G
ATA: ATA is interesting, since its widebodies are for charters only and not even in the full livery. I guess I'd have to say the B753 in their case.
Sun Country: B738
Allegiant: MD83
jetBlue: A320
Skybus: A319
USA 3000: A320
Southwest: B73G
Alaska: B739
Midwest: Another example where their biggest plane is not their flagship. The B717 is significantly newer than their MD80s, and runs the vast majority of the Signature Service flights. Granted, so do some of the MD80s, but not all of them, so I'd say that the Midwest flagship is the B717.

The only thing that varies from these are whether to count the newer planes in a couple of cases where the listed flagship is no longer in production. This includes the possibility of ATA's flagship being the B738 instead of the B753, and the possibility of Alaska's flagship being the B738 instead of the B739 (since they don't have the -ER model for the B739), but for the most part I'd say that it doesn't matter that much that the B753 and non-ER B739 are out of production in this case.

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 10): American: While the A300 holds the most passengers, that's just because its in high-density configuration. Using the standard "manufacturer-suggested" capacities, the 777 is larger. AA's flagship is the B772.

It's not even a question here. The 777 is their plane with international F class, and is their flagship. It has the "Flagship Suite" inside it and those lucky passengers are welcome in their "Flagship Lounge" for goodness sakes!  

A300 is not even in the running. Next in line would be the 763 as it's used to premiere destinations. A300 is used as a regional aircraft. For an international carrier, a regional aircraft is not a flagship.

Quoting ORDagent (Reply 1): Whatever the airline calls its "Flagship" is determined by the marketing department nothing more.

...and a.netters. It's a totally meaningless designation. It's like "award winning".

Aer Lingus have an example which complicates it further. Obviously having 2 types in fleet makes flaship comparisons easy,therefore the A330 is flagship here. Traditionally the a/c named St.Patrick was the flagship hull,so this makes EI-DUB (A333) the flagship hull, I assume that the first or second A350 they receive will be called St.Patrick (depending on when EI-DUB is retired)

In ground crew terms EI also have a traditional priority L/H flight. It the 0930Z EI105 DUB-JFK, used by businessmen and celebs alike. So EI also have a flagship flight even is it is only in staff circles.


Virgin Atlantic did have a flagship in their 'Maiden Flyer' B747, not sure of the reg, until it was retired.

[Edited 2007-07-31 17:42:23]

Quoting LouA340 (Reply 7): I'd presume it would be the aircraft used on the airlines flight #1 too.

And what if an airline has no flight #1 ???  

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12): ...and a.netters. It's a totally meaningless designation. It's like "award winning".

   Couldn't agree more !

Do airlines even use this term any more? I haven't seen it used in ages, other than of course the a.net crowning of the A380 as the flagship of any airline that will fly it.

To me, the term is a throw back to the days when airlines provided real service that meant something; when flying was an event and something to look forward to; when people actually dressed up to fly. I don't think that happens much any more.

Quoting ORDagent (Reply 1): Whatever the airline calls its "Flagship" is determined by the marketing department nothing more.

That ist he most accurate answer today.

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 9): Defintion wise, a flagship is simply the largest (size wise) aircraft.

That is no longer a useful definition. The word flagship is used in marketing an image and it's a tactic that you see in aviation but also other fields as well. For instance, the term "flagship species" comes to mind.

Ages ago, I assume the Flying boats were flagships for their airlines. In the 70's, as you already read, Concorde was a flagship of a different sort. And now AA utilizes a term to distinguish a class of service but not necessarily the a/c type.

I always thought that a flagship is the ac most associated with the airline. I didn't even know airlines still had them. They used to have really cool magazine ads with a picture of the plane. I personally like the 70's era "flagships".

Pan AM -747
American-DC-10
Delta-L-1011
United-747
Eastern L-1011 or A300?
Braniff 747 "Big Orange"
TWA 747
Continental DC-10

Quoting LouA340 (Reply 7): I'd presume it would be the aircraft used on the airlines flight #1 too.

Not necessarily. Although, as others have said, "flagship" is a meaningless marketing term, I'm sure DL would consider the 777-200ERs to be their "flagship", although DL flight #1 (JFK-LGW) is a 767-300ER.

And in the USA, carriers other than AA would have to be careful using the word since it's an AA registered trademark/service mark. They've used "Flagship" for decades in the names of many of their products, and at one time all their aircraft were named "Flagship" followed by the name of a city or state etc. I think that practice lasted until the early to mid-1960s as their early 707s all had "Flagship" names. Note the names on the DC-7 and Electra below, Flagship Texas and Flagship Los Angeles.

View Large View Medium Photo © Sterling E Weaver

View Large View Medium Photo © Bob Garrard

Going back even further, at one time they even used the word "Flagship" by itself on the aircraft fuselage. Original 1940s photo and recent photo of their restored "Flagship Detroit" in early livery below.

View Large View Medium Photo © Terry Wall

View Large View Medium Photo © Bruce Leibowitz

[Edited 2007-07-31 22:12:51]

I always thought of it as the newest aircraft (taking account of both the year it was made and the year it was designed)- there might be (or probably) more than one identical aircraft.

Once Delta's 777-200LRs enter service, that will probably be considered Delta's overall flagship. For Europe, the 767-400ER is currently the flagship aircraft.

Quoting Sv2008 (Reply 19): I always thought of it as the newest aircraft (taking account of both the year it was made and the year it was designed)- there might be (or probably) more than one identical aircraft.

Well if we go on age of fleet for AIR NZ that would make it the Q300 but i dont think anyone would consider that our flagship .. That would have to be our older 744 ..

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 20): Once Delta's 777-200LRs enter service, that will probably be considered Delta's overall flagship. For Europe, the 767-400ER is currently the flagship aircraft.

This is a great example. Why exactly do you (or Delta) consider the 764 as the "Flagship" over the current 772?

LH is calling the A380 their future flagship.

Quoting DIA (Reply 23): This is a great example. Why exactly do you (or Delta) consider the 764 as the "Flagship" over the current 772?

I said for Europe the 767-400ER is the flagship. Delta no longer flies the 777-200ER to Europe, they are flown on longer routes to Asia.

I don't know if it was considered a 'Flagship', but I fondly remember the Western Airlines DC10 'Spaceship'.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18): And in the USA, carriers other than AA would have to be careful using the word since it's an AA registered trademark/service mark

Is it really a registered term, "Flagship'", for AA? I never knew that. I could see "Flagship Service" and "Flagship Lounge" as being copyright issues. But I wonder if, for instance, NW were to state the 787 would be the flagship for their fleet, I wonder what would be the ramifications.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 24): I said for Europe the 767-400ER is the flagship. Delta no longer flies the 777-200ER to Europe, they are flown on longer routes to Asia.

You could've said "pork and beans" and I still would've stated the same thing...

That said, I disagree with your overall thought on this one. I don't think DL has a flagship for this and a flagship for that. An airline has one designated flagship...period. One crown. One king-of-the-hill. Etc. Otherwise Braniff's flagship for South America would have been a DC-8 while up north...the great pumpkin(s).

Returning to the nautical origin of the term, a "flagship" was one in a naval fleet which carried the commanding officer and thus flew an identifying flag. Carrying this forward, you could apply the label to anything (airplane, automobile, department store, broadcasting station) which has some characteristic distinguishing it from others in the same group.

In the case of airline fleets, the flagship doesn't necessarily need to be the biggest. Concorde is a perfect example, as it epitomized the height of elegance and service for BA and AF. You could also make the argument that, among the hundreds of WN 737s, those which are actual "flying flags" serve as the standard-bearers for the company.

For the time being for TK, its flight number 001 IST-JFK, and the biggest plane in the fleet, the flagship is the A343.

[Edited 2007-07-31 23:56:45]

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 26): Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18): And in the USA, carriers other than AA would have to be careful using the word since it's an AA registered trademark/service mark Is it really a registered term, "Flagship'", for AA? I never knew that. I could see "Flagship Service" and "Flagship Lounge" as being copyright issues. But I wonder if, for instance, NW were to state the 787 would be the flagship for their fleet, I wonder what would be the ramifications.

Used generically as in your NW example, I doubt there would be a problem. But if NW used "Flagship" in a product/service name they may have problems with AA. Following from AA's website listing their trademarks/service marks (Copyright link at bottom of their homepage). It has 3 references to the word "Flagship":

Trademarks / Servicemarks
AACargo, AA.com, AAdvantage, AAdvantage Auto & Recreational Program, AAdvantage Cruise, AAdvantage Dial-In, AAdvantage Dining, AAdvantage Executive Platinum, AAdvantage eShopping, AA First Call, AAdvantage Fund Raising, AAdvantage Gold, AAdvantage Golf, AAdvantage Hotel, AAdvantage Platinum, AAdvantage Program for Mortgages and Real Estate, AAdvantage Retail, AAdvantage Vacation Awards, AAirpass, AAnytime, AAttractions, Admirals Club, Admirals Club Executive Center, Americanair.com, American Airlines, American Airlines Group & Meeting Travel, American Airlines Landing Zone, American AAdvantage Mileage Funds, AmericanAirlines Vacations, American Eagle, American Airlines Interactive Travel, American Flagship Service, American Way, Business ExtrAA, buyAAmiles, Celebrated Living, Corporate AAccess, depositAAmiles, Everyfare, Express Breakfast, Flagship, Fly AAway Cruise Vacations, giftAAmiles, HospitAAlity, In-Flight Café, International Flagship Service, Latitudes, Miles For Kids In Need, Miles for Trails, Net SAAver, Net SAAver Fares, Nexos, orderAAmiles, Personal AAccess, PlanAAhead, redeemAAmiles, Sale AAlert, shareAAmiles, Snack Attack, SpAA in Flight, SpAA-To-Go, transferAAmiles, and We Know Why You Fly are marks owned by American Airlines, Inc., both in the U.S. and many countries around the world. All other product names mentioned herein are the trademarks of their respective owners.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 30): Following from AA's website listing their trademarks/service marks (Copyright link at bottom of their homepage). It has 3 references to the word "Flagship":

I guess UA would have "Mainliner" ...etc...

It just seems odd that a commonly used term such as flagship would have "rights" associated with it...seeing as though flagship was used long before A^A made it theirs. Many of the cruise lines of the world (including 19th-century ones)refered to their best ship as their "flagship" and so on...

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned yet that the only "real" Flagships are any and all aircraft operated by Pinnacle Airlines.  

A flagship combines the largest size and the most capability. When there is a split, you look which aircraft is deployed on the most important routes.

Quoting DIA (Reply 3): does UA still have Flight #1 from ORD-HNL?

That is a rather recent creation. The real Flight 1/2 was the RTW flight that turned in LAX and dated back to the Pan Am days.

Quoting DIA (Reply 3): And is it a 744?

No

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 5): It's a 772...which I would consider to be their flagship.

Which it isn't.

I'll just quickly tackle AC here:

Quoting LouA340 (Reply 7): I'd presume it would be the aircraft used on the airlines flight #1 too.

YYZ-NRT; formerly A343 equipment. Now operated by 77W/77L, which I would think is now the flagship once the A345's leave for Brazil in October. When AC had the 744's only a few years ago, those would have been the flagship I'd imagine. The 77W and later the 77L will operate YYZ-YVR-SYD, which will soon become a "flagship" route of sorts.

For F9 it will be the A320 once it enters service.

Hunter

Quoting N1120A (Reply 33): That is a rather recent creation. The real Flight 1/2 was the RTW flight that turned in LAX and dated back to the Pan Am days.

??? Back in the late 1970s, UA had a 747 on this route. I know because I still have the ticket stubs.

Quoting LouA340 (Reply 7): I'd presume it would be the aircraft used on the airlines flight #1 too.

AA 1 is run with a 20+ year old 762......definitely not AA's flagship.

Honestly, I think the term "flagship" is something that's only given significance here in the hallowed halls of airliners.net. Most people/airlines probably haven't given it any thought.

Funny, the July issue of Airline magazine in Japan has as its cover story "The Flagship - Fierce Competition for the Role of Star Airliner".

http://secure.ikaros.jp/sales/maga-detail.asp?ID=1592

Some of the article titles in this issue:

Just What is a "Flagship"?

Inspection! Near Future Flagship Candidates
A380, 747-8, 777, 787, A350XWB

"21st Century Flagship" A380 Has the Aura

Just Now 787 In Production!

The Lives of Successive Flagships

Lots and lots of opinions and choices...  

Quoting DIA (Reply 27): That said, I disagree with your overall thought on this one. I don't think DL has a flagship for this and a flagship for that. An airline has one designated flagship...period. One crown. One king-of-the-hill. Etc. Otherwise Braniff's flagship for South America would have been a DC-8 while up north...the great pumpkin(s).

Yes, the 777-200ER is Delta's official flagship. They have offered the best international product for Delta, initially being the only aircraft with PTVs in economy on Delta's fleet. With the move of the 777-200ERs on longer Asian routes, the 767-400ER is a "de facto" flagship aircraft for Delta's European ops. Both the international 767-400ERs and 777-200ERs now offer AVOD in economy. However, I remember that when I flew on a Delta 777 on ATL-MCO in 2003, the economy seats featured lumbar support. I don't know whether they still do. The 777-200LR will soon take the throne from the 777-200ER, as they will be the first to offer the sleeper suites in BusinessElite.

Historically, the L-1011 has been both Delta's flagship and workhorse aircraft. Even when the 767-200/300 and MD-11 entered service, I would still say that Delta considered the L-1011 their flagship. The MD-11 was never worthy of the flagship title, it was the lemon of Delta's fleet.

LH 001 is the first HAM-FRA flight of the day, typically an A321. For LH, I'd said their flagship flight is 400 (traditionally FRA-JFK), but I dunno if the A380 will be put there. They definitely said that the A380 will be their flagship

SailorOrion

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 26): Is it really a registered term, "Flagship'", for AA?

I know that Viscount724 already provided a list of trademarks for AA, but here is the actual registration information for Flagship.


Word Mark: FLAGSHIP
Goods and Services: IC 016. US 002 005 022 023 029 037 038 050. G & S: lithographs. FIRST USE: 19990400. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19990400
Mark Drawing Code: (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number: 76121976
Filing Date: September 5, 2000
Current Filing Basis: 1A
Original Filing Basis: 1A
Published for Opposition: October 23, 2001
Registration Number: 2529500
Registration Date: January 15, 2002
Owner (REGISTRANT): American Airlines. Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE M.D. 5675 P.O. Box 619616 DFW Airport TEXAS 752619616
Attorney of Record: Kay Lyn Schwartz
Type of Mark: TRADEMARK
Register: PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator: LIVE


http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=64psos.4.103

Ciccone

I would like to think that an airline's flagship is the aircraft that best represents the best of that carrier. It will usually have the latest installed products of the airline onboard and generally implies either it's largest or newest aquisition. The A380 for example will be the newest flagship of all of the airlines who have ordered it.
For Qantas, it's flagship, until the A380 arrives is good ol Wunula Dreaming. A 747-400ER painted in a livery that still never fails to turn heads just about everywhere.

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 40): LH 001 is the first HAM-FRA flight of the day, typically an A321. For LH, I'd said their flagship flight is 400 (traditionally FRA-JFK), but I dunno if the A380 will be put there. They definitely said that the A380 will be their flagship SailorOrion

LH does not have a "flagship route" The aircraft A380 is to be the flagship, but that will include the fleet of A380s not a specific one flying a specific route.

I wonder if any airlines will name the 787 as the flagship even if they have larger aircraft, and thus marketing will try to brand he airline as "green"?

Wouldn't the flagship the the aircraft that the airline considers most prestigous? i.e BA - Concorde, (NH - 742?) . Like in hotel chains their flagship isn't necessary the first hotel or the newest one?

BAguy

How can the term "Flagship" be used to represent a group of aircraft? I always thought a fleets "Flagship" represented a single aircraft that for one reason or another embodied something special for that airline. Whether it is the first 747 for that airline, or the aircraft that is used for flight #1.

I purchased an aircraft model onboard a MyTravel flight and noticed the registration on the tail of the model was G-MLJL. I have always considered MLJL the "Flagship" in their fleet.

Quoting DIA (Thread starter): Aeroflot will fly both the A350 and the 787...which one will be the "Flagship?"

They'll be flying the 787???? I was under the impression they lost the slots after they didn't meet the Boeing deadline of Nov then Dec 2006!   

Quoting DIA (Thread starter): 3. How about Swiss? don't they have both A333s and A340s? they are both the same size, but does the A340 take the cake because it has two more engines?

No so far LX has the 332 but will be replacing them soon by 333's
Nick

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 46): They'll be flying the 787???? I was under the impression they lost the slots after they didn't meet the Boeing deadline of Nov then Dec 2006!

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2007/q2/070609a_nr.html


Latest news suggests Aeroflot will take delivery of 20 787s and 20 A350s.

Quoting LouA340 (Reply 7): I'd presume it would be the aircraft used on the airlines flight #1 too.

Eastern Airlines, back in the 1970s, used to have it's flight #1 running EWR-MCO. I always found this a bit odd, as EWR was the "backwater" airport compared to JFK and LGA back then.

What was even more odd was they operated it with a DC9-30 series aircraft!