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TUGMASTER
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Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:48 pm

Mornig all,

This morning i was looking up some information on the CAA/G-INFO website, and stumbled across the following regarding the BA A320-111's....

here is a list of when all there C of A runs out

G- BUSD ...TOO LATE....!!!!

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © A J Best



G-BUSE 30 NOV 2007
G-BUSB 19 APR 2008
G-BUSC 01 JUN 2008
G-BUSF 25 AUG 2008

Looks like BUSE is the next to head to Lasham, with lest than 4 months till her Cof A runs out , expect her to leave very soon....

so if you want a ride on one of these unique machines, get a move on......

I think there were less of these built than the B737-100...???
and theres noway you'll get a ride on one of those now....

rgds

T
 
speedbirdegjj
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:04 pm

Such a shame, i love the distinctive noise of those birds in the cabin. Infact on the inside they aren't too shabby.

I remember 18months ago, waiting around at LHR for 5 hours in order to ride one, although since then i've been on the whole lot of them including BUSD.

R
 
TruemanQLD
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:34 pm

Such a waste. They just become an environmental nightmare because people want to fly on new aircraft not old ones!
 
vv701
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:08 pm

Quoting TUGMASTER (Thread starter):
I think there were less of these built than the B737-100...???

There were just 21 A320 111s of which eight (F-GFKA to 'FG and 'FQ) went to AF, seven (F-GGEA to 'EF) to Air Inter and then AF and five to BA (G-BUSB to SF).
 
B747forever
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:15 pm

Which route does BA operate the A320-111 on.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
Ryanair737
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:20 pm

They were pretty lousy for BA, they don't have the range with the payload that the 200 model has and therefore BA were limited to where they could send them. That is why they only used to go to FRA/DUS/MUC/PRG and internal UK etc.

737
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Tristarsteve
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:20 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 4):
Which route does BA operate the A320-111 on

They are not kept as a separate fleet, but are scheduled together with the 5 A320-211 aircraft, which are also leaving the fleet next year. But these 9 CFM56 powered A320 are regularly substituted on other A320 routes and appear anywhere on the shorthaul network. It is impossible to say more than 24hours in advance which routes the -111 aircraft will fly on.
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:38 pm

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 2):
They just become an environmental nightmare because people want to fly on new aircraft not old ones!

this is not about people wanting to only fly in new airplanes, these planes are approaching their operational life limits.

It's a lot more environmentally friendly to scrap the planes and reuse the componenets than to let the plane come unglued and fall to peices at 9000 M.
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
vv701
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:44 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 3):
There were just 21 A320 111s

Forgot to mention that the 1st of these was retained by Airbus.

Coincidentally there were also 21 731s, all initially operated by LH as D-ABEA to 'EW (with no 'EE or 'EJ). Interestingly all these aircraft were sold on to other operators after around 14 years service with LH. However all of the 320 111s stayed with the one operator for around the 20 years since they entered service if the absorption of Air Inter by parent company AF is discounted.
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:48 pm

Quoting Ryanair737 (Reply 5):
only used to go to FRA/DUS/MUC/PRG

I flew on one LHR-GVA in August of 2002
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
Strathpeffer
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:53 pm

Were some of Air France and Air Inter -111s not converted to -211s?

PJ
Another Technical Problem?
 
Ryanair737
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:58 pm

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 9):
I flew on one LHR-GVA in August of 2002

I wasn't listing exact destinations; I was purely stating the usual distances for the 100 on the BA network.

737
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vv701
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:00 pm

Quoting Strathpeffer (Reply 10):
Were some of Air France and Air Inter -111s not converted to -211s?

I am not aware of this. But one crashed near SXB back in early 1992.
 
TUGMASTER
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:20 pm

Hello again,

It's nice to get a wee bit of response concerning a rather rare aircraft....

strange there were 21 B737-100's and 21 A320-100..... and the difference being that a A320-100 is worth more in pieces , whereas the B737-100 continued flying for many more operators after their initial buyer.

BTW, these machine are around 20 years old......

As for finding one to fly on....... Have no idea regarding the AF ones, but like has been previously said, internally in the UK is a good bet....

rgds
 
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northstardc4m
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:18 pm

There were 28 737-100s:

21 for LH to PEX>CO>many (-130)
2 for AVIANCA via GATX Leasing, later to Aloha, Air California (-159)
4 for MSA-Malaysia Singapore, to Singapore Airlines, to Air Florida, some to America West, 1 to Mexican Air Force (-112)
1 for NASA (prototype/N73700) (-130) preserved

Ive got sources claiming 29 and 30 also, but i can only find 28 plus the static test frame
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:06 am

Quoting Ryanair737 (Reply 5):
They were pretty lousy for BA, they don't have the range with the payload that the 200 model has and therefore BA were limited to where they could send them. That is why they only used to go to FRA/DUS/MUC/PRG and internal UK etc.

I appreciate that they aren't as capable as the 200 model, but IMO "pretty lousy" is a bit strong; they are the oldest aircraft in the BA fleet, and were put into service by BA which was then perceived as a Boeing only airline, as a result of the Bcal takeover. Most were delivered direct to BA after the takeover, who could have chosen to sell them on. Theres no way BA would have operated a "pretty lousy" aircraft for 19 years.
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 15):
Most were delivered direct to BA after the takeover

Although the first A320 was painted in BCAL colours, it was repainted in BA scheme before delivery to BA in Spring 1988. These aircraft spent the summer of 1988 operating out of LGW with the ex BCAL crews before being moved to LHR for the Winter 1988/89 season.
 
ContnlEliteCMH
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 2):
They just become an environmental nightmare because people want to fly on new aircraft not old ones!

How do they become an "environmental nightmare"?
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
Ryanair737
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:41 am

Bongodog1964,

When fully loaded and fuelled on top of alternate fuel the 100s can't go more then Prague/Madrid/Oslo from Heathrow, I think that proves my point.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 15):
Theres no way BA would have operated a "pretty lousy" aircraft for 19 years.

They do the job on internals and short European trips, nuff said. Anywhere other than that they are pretty much useless.

I'm not being harsh; I'm only comparing the 100 on what the 200 has no problems and no restrictions doing.

737
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Bongodog1964
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:10 am

Quoting Ryanair737 (Reply 18):
When fully loaded and fuelled on top of alternate fuel the 100s can't go more then Prague/Madrid/Oslo from Heathrow, I think that proves my point.

No not at all. It proves that their performance was such that BA had far more routes they were suitable for, than 100's available. As I said before if they were "pretty lousy" they would not have survived 19 years in BA service.

They were merely less capable than the 200 series. Pretty lousy in my vocabularly is unfit for purpose or always breaking down.
 
Sketty222
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:54 am

I have flown on one these back in June. It was G-BUSF and you can find it in my trip report ANU-LGW/LHR-NCL Part2 With Pics And Vids (by Sketty222 Jul 10 2007 in Trip Reports)

Anyway BUSF is operating the BA1332 LHR-NCL 03Aug if anyone is really desperate to fly on one beofre they retire.

(it will also be opertaing the BA1333 NCL-LHR and then BA1334 LHR-NCL and BA1335 NCL-LHR)


Lee

[Edited 2007-08-02 18:56:29]
There's flying and then there's flying
 
wingsofman72
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:47 am

I had no idea the 320-111 was that rare...and I've flown on both..AF -KA and KE (both short flight DUS-CDG/CDG-GVA, and the -100 (-112 as HP LAS-PHX-SEA, and -130 as CO RIC-EWR). No real diffeence to the passanger, but really nice for those of us that keep track of these things.
 
Super98
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:02 am

Supposedly A28NM [TC] is only good for 48,000 cycles Design Service Goal.

But then it depends on what observations are made for the widespread fatigue damage and environmental damage as to whether or not they allow an amended on aircraft maintenance plan to provisionally take it out further.

Anyone know the WFD findings on the A320 so far. IE, so far the only issue affecting MD-80s DSG is the famous aft pressure bulkhead requiring a 75,000 cycle re-eval on the MSG3 plan.

kinda strange to see the A320s being parted out already like the 737's were.....
 
ddbonf
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:09 am

I once saw a photo of G-BUSB in British Caledonian colours when it was registered G-BRSA ....briefly in 1988.

I can't remember where I saw the photo though


Someone may
 
ikramerica
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 14):
Ive got sources claiming 29 and 30 also, but i can only find 28 plus the static test frame

Boeing says there were 4 customers, 30 frames, all delivered.

2x Avianca
22x Lufthansa
5x MSA-Malaysia/Singapore A/L
1x NASA

Should we not trust them?  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:27 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 24):
Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 14):
Ive got sources claiming 29 and 30 also, but i can only find 28 plus the static test frame

Boeing says there were 4 customers, 30 frames, all delivered.

2x Avianca
22x Lufthansa
5x MSA-Malaysia/Singapore A/L
1x NASA

Should we not trust them?

Yes that is correct. Boeing and all other production lists I have show 30 737-100s. I have never seen any other figure mentioned.
 
Reggaebird
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:03 am

I just took a picture of G-BUSB at Newcastle International (NCL) last Wednesday (25/07/07 or 07/25/07). It was operating a flight to LHR.
 
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northstardc4m
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:03 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 24):
Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 14):
Ive got sources claiming 29 and 30 also, but i can only find 28 plus the static test frame

Boeing says there were 4 customers, 30 frames, all delivered.

2x Avianca
22x Lufthansa
5x MSA-Malaysia/Singapore A/L
1x NASA

Should we not trust them?

Yes that is correct. Boeing and all other production lists I have show 30 737-100s. I have never seen any other figure mentioned.

So there is another -112 somewhere... interesting.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
boo25
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:22 am

Well i flew on G-BUSB Today! ... operating as crew on Milan - London  Wink

It was absolutely fine, they do have a distinctive noise yes, and the cabins are still pretty smart all considered .

The worst thing about our remaining A320-100's is the cramped/dirty rear galley and the serviceability of the toilets.

They're pretty well looked after,like all of the 300+ fleet and so i guess when they're time is up, that will be that...

If you want to catch a ride on one, they are mostly used on the domestic routes,MAN/EDI/GLA etc , and occasional german / italian routes.
 
Analog
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:58 am

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 17):

How do they become an "environmental nightmare"?

It takes a lot of energy to produce a new aircraft. Unless a replacement aircraft is significantly more efficient than what it replaces, there is a net cost in energy. Of course a much more efficient replacement would produce an energy savings, but only after many years (years is a guess).

Disposal of the old aircraft components also has its problems. I assume aircraft contain some less-than-non-toxic parts that have to be disposed of properly.

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 7):

It's a lot more environmentally friendly to scrap the planes and reuse the componenets than to let the plane come

How much is actually reused? The Al is recycled (saving a huge amount of energy vs. newly refined Al), but are actual non-trivial (i.e. more than ovens) components reused ?
 
ikramerica
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:45 am

Quoting Analog (Reply 29):
How much is actually reused? The Al is recycled (saving a huge amount of energy vs. newly refined Al), but are actual non-trivial (i.e. more than ovens) components reused ?

Engine parts and seats and tires...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
ContnlEliteCMH
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:34 am

Quoting Analog (Reply 29):
It takes a lot of energy to produce a new aircraft. Unless a replacement aircraft is significantly more efficient than what it replaces, there is a net cost in energy.

So, a net cost in energy is an "enviromental nightmare?"

Quoting Analog (Reply 29):
Of course a much more efficient replacement would produce an energy savings, but only after many years (years is a guess).

Ah, so it's not really an "environmental nightmare" after all. Make up your mind.

Quoting Analog (Reply 29):
Disposal of the old aircraft components also has its problems. I assume aircraft contain some less-than-non-toxic parts that have to be disposed of properly.

If they are disposed of properly, is that an "environmental nightmare?"

Honestly, do those of you who worship at the Church of Gaia ever actually analyze these things? Or do you just look at anything that humans do as an ecological scourge while ratcheting up your rhetoric to levels that necessarily impugn your credibility? How do you sleep at night if disposal of an A320 is a "nightmare"? The people who have lost family and friends in the bridge collapse in Minneapolis are living a real nightmare. The families of the TAM crash victims are embroiled in their own waking nightmares.

Anybody who thinks disposal of an A320 is a nightmare, or even an event of *any* negative significance, is as genuine as a three dollar bill.

Here's what I see in that picture: a piece of equipment whose disposal is an ecologically responsible activity. It's sad when machinery we love and to which we assign emotion reaches the end of its life. But to claim that disposal and recycling of such machinery is an "environmental nightmare" is just obtuse because in fact it is the exact opposite.
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
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zeke
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:51 am

Quoting TUGMASTER (Thread starter):
here is a list of when all there C of A runs out

CofAs run out even on brand new aircraft, normally its just a paperwork exercise to renew them. Like the certificate of registration, the are issued by the CAA, and have to be renewed from time to time.

What makes you think that these will be scrapped when then CofA expires ?
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
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zeke
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:59 am

Quoting Analog (Reply 29):

How much is actually reused? The Al is recycled (saving a huge amount of energy vs. newly refined Al), but are actual non-trivial (i.e. more than ovens) components reused ?

Airbus has a new recycling project called PAMELA, "85 to 95 percent of aircraft components can be easily recycled, reused or recovered"

Quote:
The Airbus initiated aircraft recycling project called PAMELA (Process for Advanced Management of End-of-Life of Aircraft) has been selected as one of the European Commission's LIFE Environment Programs (L'Instrument Financier de l'Environnement). The idea behind the €2.4 million PAMELA project is to make sure that end-of-life aircraft such as thirty year-old A300s do not end up rusting away on the side of airfields. The project wants to demonstrate that 85 to 95 percent of aircraft components can be easily recycled, reused or recovered. Equipment and products such as the electronics system, tires, batteries, CFC (chlorofluorocarbon) and hydraulic fluids from aircraft have to go through a controlled processing channel. With PAMELA, working spares recovered from end-of-life aircraft will be tracked and put back into the system safely. As part of the project, PAMELA will also help launch a European network to disseminate information about plane dismantling. The European plane builder and its partners (SITA, EADS CCR, Sogerma Services, and the Hautes-Pyrénées Prefecture) hope to see Tarbes airport become a center of excellence for PAMELA. At the airport located in southwest France, Airbus and its partners will set up a special facility where procedures for decommissioning and recycling aircraft in safe and environmentally friendly conditions will be tested. Airbus will be setting standards for best practice in this field while controlling the way retired aircraft are handled. From 2004 to 2023,
more than 4,000 airliners will be reaching end-of-life. Importantly for the environment and public health, their disassembly must be managed safely. Project participants also want to export their skills and technology to other regions of the world. PAMELA is expected to create up to 100 jobs over the next few years.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
flyorski
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:20 pm

Very interesting stuff. What is BA looking at to replace them?
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:03 pm

I think the main reason why they are scrapped is simply that nobody wants to buy them. They certainly could fly for many years to come, but since the type is so rare, it makes no sense at all. On the other hand, European legacy carriers rarely use planes for more than 25 years, so it would be very untypical if BA used them any longer.

Still a shame to see them go, I think at least some of those early birds deserved to be preserved, considering how important the A320 is for aviation history, and for Airbus.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:21 pm

Quoting Flyorski (Reply 34):

A320 series aircraft already on order.
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:15 pm

Quoting Boo25 (Reply 28):
The worst thing about our remaining A320-100's is the cramped/dirty rear galley and the serviceability of the toilets

The 10 A320 that were ordered by BCAL had recycling blue water toilets. Every other A320 I have met has the standard vacuum toilets. BCAL didn't believe in the vacuum system and specified recyling toilets as an option.
So these aircraft have two toilet service points, the fwd one is on the left under the L1 door, and very difficult for the toilet service truck to reach. It also gets regularly forgotton. Also the dump cable is very unreliable and frays over the top pulley meaning we have to do manual dumps by pulling the cable with grips all the time.
Are there any other A320 with blue water toilets?
New buid A320 still have the fwd toilet service panel fitted, and blanked off. Strange that it wasn't deleted as it hasn't been used for years.
 
BA777ER236
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:20 pm

Quoting Strathpeffer (Reply 10):
Were some of Air France and Air Inter -111s not converted to -211s?

PJ

No, non of the -111s have been converted.

IIRC, the wing structure is different to the 211, and the wing tip is incapable of upgrade to carry the standard -200 winglet. The -111 engine pylon is also different to the -211, and is 6 inches shorter. So, in short, to convert a -111 to -211 standard would have involved a wing change (or major structural modification) and a change of pylons for the CFM56. Altogether, this would have been uneconomic.

I have happy memories of flying the -111, many uneventful hours plying back and forth between LHR and MAN,GLA,EDI,NCL,ABZ and sometimes further afield to DUS,BCN,ZRH etc. The only times that I had trouble with performance were in ABZ when the temperature was warm (rare!) and the QNH low, and also in ZRH on a warm day whilst planning for a departure from rwy 28(we could have departed from rwy 16, of course).

Quoting Ryanair737 (Reply 5):
They were pretty lousy for BA, they don't have the range with the payload that the 200 model has and therefore BA were limited to where they could send them.

Actually, you are overstating the case. The majority of short haul routes are no problem for the -111, and as I type this 'Busby' (SB) is on the way to PRG, SC is on the way back from MXP, SE is about to set off for NCE, and SF is setting off back from LIN. There are only 4 left out of a current fleet of 69 (of all types) and to suggest that they restrict the operational flexibility of BA is a little unfair. The -111s have been work horses for nearly 20 years, and the best reason for retiring them, is that they are coming up for major maintenance, and they are less compatible with the IAE powered fleet than desirable parts wise(same with -211), not because they are 'pretty lousy' operationally.

Cheers
 Smile
Flying would be easy if it wasn't for the ground
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:46 pm

Quoting BA777ER236 (Reply 38):
The only times that I had trouble with performance were in ABZ when the temperature was warm (rare!) and the QNH low, and also in ZRH on a warm day whilst planning for a departure from rwy 28(we could have departed from rwy 16, of course).

We see them in ARN now and then, but I notice that the problem we get is usually trying not to exceed MZFW. With 149 pax and bags you get very close to it. No problem in the afternoon, when there are less bags, but an early morning dep when everyone has bags can be a problem. Take off on our 10000ft runway with fuel for 2.5 hours was not a problem.
 
BA777ER236
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:41 pm

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 39):
We see them in ARN now and then, but I notice that the problem we get is usually trying not to exceed MZFW. With 149 pax and bags you get very close to it.

Hi TristarSteve. I would have to look at my log book (not to hand) to see if I ever took one to ARN, but I certainly don't remember having problems there.

I hope you will agree with me though, that I don't think that BA have had a bad deal with the -100s, and that they have been good value for money, far from 'pretty lousy' operationally that a previous poster suggests!

Cheers
 Smile

p.s. how are your RB211s & Trents nowadays, anything of note since the Malaysian incident?
Flying would be easy if it wasn't for the ground
 
Ryanair737
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:32 pm

BA777ER236,

Thanks a lot for the info it is much appreciated, perhaps I was overstating the case. But all I was was saying that compared to the 200, the 100 had more restrictions placed on it with regards to a full payload and fuel to where it could go from Heathrow, I've heard things from previous air crew on it that haven't been as favourable as yourself. Saying basically with large sum of baggage, pax load and fuel on top of that from Heathrow it is a struggle to make BCN or MAD or the MLW is exceeded (which is much lower on the 100). Pretty lousy was being quite harsh I guess, they haven't been, I picked the wrong word.

737

[Edited 2007-08-03 13:39:24]
LAST FLIGHTS= Ryanair LPL-BGY-LPL - EI-DPS/DWV - MAY 08 // NEXT FLIGHTS= TBC
 
BA777ER236
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:18 am

RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:54 pm

Quoting Ryanair737 (Reply 41):
I picked the wrong word.

Fair enough, I note what you say, and also the previous post by TristarSteve.

From my perspective, whilst aware of the -111s lower MTOW,MZFW, and MLW, these were known quantities and you worked around them. I seem to remember more performance problems with the 737-400, such as trying to scratch the last kg of RTOW performance for departure out of NAP, than for the A320-111s.

What I found more irritating about the A320-111s and -211s in BA, was the lack of brake cooling fans. This was a big factor on short shuttle sectors (especially to MAN) with high loads and in warm summer temperatures. It was also a big pain at Stuttgart, as the taxi out is generally fairly steeply down hill, and again in summer, with a high load, it was easy to exceed the brake temp limits just taxiing to the rwy! - Oh, and the pilots seats are less comfortable!!

Cheers
 Smile
Flying would be easy if it wasn't for the ground
 
itsnotfinals
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:51 am

RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:18 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 35):
They certainly could fly for many years to come

If they are approaching 45,000 (or 48,000 cycles as mentioned, still trying to find a definitive limit on the -111s). which they probably are, then they are almost done and cannot be used anymore .

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 2):
They just become an environmental nightmare

I am sure you wear shoes made out of tree bark that are stiched together with horse hair and that you would never use plastic or any of it's evil incarnates.

Whatever happened to think globally , act locally?
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
Ryanair737
Posts: 1364
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:14 am

RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:20 pm

BA777ER236,

Thanks again for the insight it is very interesting to speak to people who actually have flown these machines! Yeah I also know of some of the perf problems with the 734 as well. But doesn’t BA still use them on longish flights out of Gatwick - CTA/ALG/ADB/TIA etc. which are 3+ hours long. Looking at Catania's fairly short runway, hot temps in the summer, there isn't a lot of room to play with!

737
LAST FLIGHTS= Ryanair LPL-BGY-LPL - EI-DPS/DWV - MAY 08 // NEXT FLIGHTS= TBC
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4510
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:39 pm

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 43):
If they are approaching 45,000 (or 48,000 cycles as mentioned, still trying to find a definitive limit on the -111s). which they probably are, then they are almost done and cannot be used anymore .

But couldn't you technically give them extensive checks to extend the possible number of cycles? Probably nobody with any sense of reason would do that, but could it be done?

45000 cycles is quite a lot. How many hours would that be for these planes? Probably around 50.000?
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3686
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:49 pm

Quoting BA777ER236 (Reply 40):
p.s. how are your RB211s & Trents nowadays, anything of note since the Malaysian incident?

The Trent has been good as gold since then. Touch wood....I haven't opened the cowlings this year!
The RB211 on B757 and B767 have been behaving well also. In fact the only engine job I can remember recently was changing a nose cowl on V2500 after a baggage loader hit it. That was painless as the new nosecowl fitted in the B767 cargo hold on a pallet.
 
itsnotfinals
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:51 am

RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:34 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 45):
But couldn't you technically give them extensive checks to extend the possible number of cycles? Probably nobody with any sense of reason would do that, but could it be done?

That is a certifcation limit. In order to go past that Airbus would have to spend many millions of Euros to get an additional certification for the aircraft with the JAA and FAA, etc, with the extended life limit and since they are in the business of selling new planes, there would be no reason to supprt that.

2 of HP's(US) A320's that are approaching their life limits have had issues with empannage cavitation and Toulouse has been understandably very supportive in fixing this unfortuate situation.
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
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RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:13 pm

Quoting TUGMASTER (Thread starter):
G- BUSD ...TOO LATE....!!!!

I flew on 'SD in April 1992. My God, was that 15 years ago?!  Sad
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Times Running Out For BA's A320-111's

Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:22 pm

Quoting SpeedbirdEGJJ (Reply 1):
Such a shame, i love the distinctive noise of those birds in the cabin. Infact on the inside they aren't too shabby.

 checkmark ..I think those are fine looking birds...

Quoting TUGMASTER (Thread starter):
G-BUSE 30 NOV 2007
G-BUSB 19 APR 2008
G-BUSC 01 JUN 2008
G-BUSF 25 AUG 2008

...seems the G-"B" series are being removed....are the G-"E" series still going to be in the fleet for a while or are they going to be removed soon also?


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