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FlyingJhawk
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Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:26 am

AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:04 am

i just returned from a trip to Cancun on AA. When we landed in DFW, the FA requested everyone close their shades in order to help keep the plane cool. In Cancun, this same request was not announced and neither was it on the return to DFW which got in around 515pm. On the return to MCI, which landed at about 8pm, again the announcement was made to close the shades to keep the plane cool. However, it was already overcast and the plane was overnighting for a early AM departure.

A few questions come to mind....

How much money can be saved if this was practiced all the time?

Why the inconsistency?
 
Transpac787
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:08 am

Quoting FlyingJHawk (Thread starter):
Why the inconsistency?

Different FA's, most likely. Some remember to make the announcement, others don't.

Quoting FlyingJHawk (Thread starter):
How much money can be saved if this was practiced all the time?

Probably not a lot, but what harm is there in closing the window shades?? If it helps to save on air conditioning costs, either by using the APU or PCA units, then so be it!!
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:17 am

For the CRJ, it is not so much the costs... saving money by putting the shades down... it is purely because of the capabilities of our air conditioning system.

We start the APU when leaving the runway on landing and sometimes don't shut it down again till on climbout and have it blowing full blast full cold the entire time, but the system is just not capable of keeping the airplane cold on the ground if its hot outside. Every little bit helps including closing the window shades. We turn off all the cabin lights (we even will go through and make sure that all the personal reading lights are turned off... those make heat too). We close the cabin door curtain to try to hold the cold air in.
 
boeing743
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:20 am

When my family and I flew on TWA from SEA-STL, before decesent into STL, the announcement from captian or F/A would say pls closed the shades so that my plane would be cool due to hot weather in STL that day. The weather in SEA was cool and little cold so when we arrived the plane would be cool for new passengers to board on it.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:24 am

Quoting FlyingJHawk (Thread starter):
i just returned from a trip to Cancun on AA. When we landed in DFW, the FA requested everyone close their shades in order to help keep the plane cool. In Cancun, this same request was not announced and neither was it on the return to DFW which got in around 515pm. On the return to MCI, which landed at about 8pm, again the announcement was made to close the shades to keep the plane cool. However, it was already overcast and the plane was overnighting for a early AM departure

Did they ask you to do this after landing and you were at the gate?

Shades are supposed to be up during taxi, takeoff, and landing..

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
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allrite
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:26 am

Which airlines have a shades down policy? When I flew Asiana and KLM the FA's were very strict about keeping the blinds closed for most of the trip. Very annoying for me who likes to look out of the window.
I like artificial banana essence!
 
ikramerica
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:26 am

Quoting FlyingJHawk (Thread starter):
i just returned from a trip to Cancun on AA. When we landed in DFW, the FA requested everyone close their shades in order to help keep the plane cool

Maybe she was ex-FL?  Wink

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 2):
We start the APU when leaving the runway on landing and sometimes don't shut it down again till on climbout and have it blowing full blast full cold the entire time, but the system is just not capable of keeping the airplane cold on the ground if its hot outside.

No kidding. ERJs are hot as heck at IAH in the summer. I even remember an ERJ flight from MHT to EWR, where we boarded (in Oct) and the plane was hot because it was sunny (but not hot outside), and then by the time we got airborne, it was too cold because I guess the plane can't keep it warm enough in really cold air?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:29 am

Quoting Allrite (Reply 5):
Which airlines have a shades down policy? When I flew Asiana and KLM the FA's were very strict about keeping the blinds closed for most of the trip. Very annoying for me who likes to look out of the window.

Indeed Alitalia and KLM are a bit rogue about their shades down policy during Movies...

Side note.. In hijackings, arent shades to be down in landings?

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
as739x
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:35 am

Very common practice with most airlines.

Alaska makes the request when landing in Mexico

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
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FlyingJhawk
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:38 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 4):
Shades are supposed to be up during taxi, takeoff, and landing..

During taxi at both DFW and MCI. On the flight from DFW to MCI, at least half the shades were closed the entire flight. I thought that was a bit odd and not according to regs.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:40 am

Quoting FlyingJHawk (Reply 9):
During taxi at both DFW and MCI. On the flight from DFW to MCI, at least half the shades were closed the entire flight. I thought that was a bit odd and not according to regs.

I always thought that the windowshades had to be up during the critical phases of flight..


Taxi.. Takeoff.. Landing

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
Venezuela747
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:52 am

I was told to do so on HP/US when we landed at PHX back in May. It looks like a nice touch, just so when people board it is not so hot before hand.
ROLL TIDE!!!
 
FutureFO
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 4):
Shades are supposed to be up during taxi, takeoff, and landing..

Not really it is not a FAR. It is company specific.
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
Riddle274
Posts: 66
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:48 am

I believe it's a good idea. While the cost savings may not be significant, anything helps. More importantly, if it keeps the cabin a degree or two cooler for the pax and crew on the next flight, then why not make the minimal effort of closing the shades upon arrival at the gate?
 
DesertAir
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:57 am

I recall being on an AA flight into Tucson in which the Fight Attendents asked that shades be lowered. Often summer temps are over 100 at the airport.
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting Allrite (Reply 5):
When I flew Asiana and KLM the FA's were very strict about keeping the blinds closed for most of the trip. Very annoying for me who likes to look out of the window.

The policy is generally unofficial, and is implemented with the customer in mind for the following:

*Keeping the sun out on long-haul flights to maximize customer comfort and sleep.
*Improving the clarity of the movie screens on aircraft with conventional main screen video programming
*Indeed keeping the cabin a tad cooler in extreme climates such as Phoenix, Las Vegas or Delhi.

Asiana has amongst the most gentle flight attendants in the skies. I'm sure it was positioned by general announcement or individually, in the same manner as our airline.

"May we request that you lower you window shades......"
Above and Beyond
 
AIR757200
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:46 am

Quoting Allrite (Reply 5):
Which airlines have a shades down policy?

It is not a policy at AA, it is simply a recommendation that the F/A asks the passengers- therefore, that's probably why some F/As do it, some don't.

And for the numbers: this practice can save as much as $60 on each 35-minute turn (figures are per AA).
 
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allrite
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:31 am

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 15):

Asiana has amongst the most gentle flight attendants in the skies. I'm sure it was positioned by general announcement or individually, in the same manner as our airline.

"May we request that you lower you window shades......"

Yes, Asiana were much nicer about it than KLM, with their big fearsome matron attendant!

I find that looking out the window really helps to overcome a fear of turbulence as you can spot when you are passing through high cloud and expect a little shake.  Smile
I like artificial banana essence!
 
zrs70
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:32 am

I doubt it is a cost factor. I think it has to do more with comfort.
20 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2020
 
iairallie
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:48 am

The airlines I worked for didn't really have an official policy about it. It's up to the crew to make a judgement call about it. If you are somewhere hot and sunny it can really help keep things more comfortable for the outbound crowd. It's a courtesy.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
tommy767
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:52 am

The crew last saturday on LGA-MCO on AA requested the same thing, and they were DFW based (752.)
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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william
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:13 am

My last flight on AA it was requested also Airtran has the same policy of lowering the shades to keep the plane cool while on the ground.
 
3201
Posts: 813
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:16 pm

RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:16 am

Quoting Allrite (Reply 5):
When I flew Asiana and KLM the FA's were very strict about keeping the blinds closed for most of the trip. Very annoying for me who likes to look out of the window.

This was discussed at length in another recent thread.

Quoting AIR757200 (Reply 16):
And for the numbers: this practice can save as much as $60 on each 35-minute turn (figures are per AA).

I would completely believe that. Why? Because...

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 2):
We start the APU when leaving the runway on landing and sometimes don't shut it down again till on climbout and have it blowing full blast full cold the entire time,

Excessive APU running on the ground is a major source of wasted fuel. Obviously in Flyf15's example it's not excessive, it's needed and not even good enough. But if you can reduce that any way, you can reduce fuel usage, which reduces both costs and emissions.

If you've ever sat on the ground during boarding mid-day next to a window facing the sun, even in a moderately warm climate, you probably know how much cooler it gets when you shut the shade. On the ground, I think it's a great idea with little or no no downside.
7 hours aint long-haul
 
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FlyingJhawk
Topic Author
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:26 am

Quoting William (Reply 21):
My last flight on AA it was requested also Airtran has the same policy of lowering the shades to keep the plane cool while on the ground.



Quoting AIR757200 (Reply 16):
It is not a policy at AA, it is simply a recommendation that the F/A asks the passengers- therefore, that's probably why some F/As do it, some don't.

Just for the record and I am not really complaining, the F/A did not "ask" or "request" that the shades be pulled down, it was an instruction.
 
FURUREFA
Posts: 640
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:24 am

I have had this happen every time i have flown into SJU on AA and AXA on MQ. I also had this happen yesterday in both DFW and EGE. This is part of American's "Fuel Smart" initiative to save fuel.

Matt
 
COTXDFW777AA
Posts: 314
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:32 am

I had this happen to me on an AE flight into SJU and DFW a few weeks ago.
Texas- it's like a whole different country!
 
katwspotter
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:10 am

Take a look at this picture that was taken of me today at BNA. If you look closely, you can see that all but 2 window shades are down. I wonder if this the for the same situation.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/finnpoika19/IMG_2943.jpg
"You're cleared to land on the green dot"
 
qfsis
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:19 pm

RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:16 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 10):
I always thought that the windowshades had to be up during the critical phases of flight..


Taxi.. Takeoff.. Landing

This was my understanding too, for safety reasons.

Could this "request" not be made once at the gate? Silly me ... that's when everybody is ignoring the seat-belt sign. Why would they pay heed to any other requests?

 banghead 
 
SWALoveField
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:49 pm

RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:18 am

Quoting AIR757200 (Reply 16):
And for the numbers: this practice can save as much as $60 on each 35-minute turn (figures are per AA).

$60 / flight, multiplied by how many daily flights? (3000+), multiplied by how many summer days in a year?

I think it is a significant cost savings if true. If I ran the airline, I'd ask that it be done.

Robb
Dallas, TX
 
coerj
Posts: 216
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:45 am

I've been on RJ flights where the same thing has been asked except for "safety purposes". Specifically once on a US airways Express ERJ 145 at LGA during dead winter.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:46 am

Well the U.S. is seeing a major heat wave in the Midwest through the Southeast...F/A's obviously want to see the aircrafts kept cool for the next pax.

I'm surprised no one mentioned that already.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:37 pm

It is preferable for window shades to be up for critical phases of flight (take-off & landing) to assess outside conditions in the event of an emergency. At AC, the only mandatory adherence was on the CRJ. As the forward entry door is a window-less airstair assembly, the windows at row 1 (left and right) had to be open for the above-mentioned reasons.
Above and Beyond
 
boeingpride800
Posts: 391
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:12 pm

I flew American's SAAB 340 and MD-80 today and both requested the shades be closed.


It is obvious why the SAAB 340 be closed, simply because the air conditioning is less than perfect on that plane and it just helps keep the temperature cool.

Its been done on other airlines that i've been on
 
iairallie
Posts: 2326
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:42 am

RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:15 pm

Quoting Qfsis (Reply 27):
Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 10):
I always thought that the windowshades had to be up during the critical phases of flight..


Taxi.. Takeoff.. Landing

This was my understanding too, for safety reasons.

Could this "request" not be made once at the gate? Silly me ... that's when everybody is ignoring the seat-belt sign. Why would they pay heed to any other requests?

The only FAR regarding windows being up is for the emergency exit rows. Which the FAA mandates must be up for taxi take off and landing. Now many companies go the extra safety mile and require all windows be up for those critical phases so that it is easy to assess conditions outside in and emergency and so that your eyes adjust to the outside light quicker. FA's have to work with the more restrictive of the two.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
AApilot2b
Posts: 481
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:16 pm

I've heard this announcement many times, especially when flying to Tucson or Phoenix. IT WORKS!! Just by keeing the sun from glaring through those windows on the ground can really help keep the plane cool. I've boarded planes in Phoenix with the shades up and I've boarded them with the shades down and there deffinately was a difference.


View Large View Medium
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Photo © David Marshall

 
captaink
Posts: 4010
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RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:48 pm

In very hot airports the AC of the airplane sometimes can't keep up. So not only does it save costs it simply helps keep the plane cool. We did the same with US in caribbean airports, the PSU air vents were also requested to be opened. In fact when I was doing ramp co-ord, I used to pull down all the shades myself and open the PSU air vents.
Look Up
 
Sandager
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 12:13 am

RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:15 pm

Wel I for one really like to get some sleep on longhaul flights. Flying to Asia it is usually nightflights or late evening when departing and then about sunrise when we get there. And it is really annoying when people continously opens and close the shades. If it not dark outside it lights up several rows in that side of the aircraft and actually wakes up people. It is not like we are really a sleeping comfortably so a thing like opening the shades is enough now and then. And besides if the crew tells people to close the shades should people doubt the crew?
 
Skyweasy82
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:04 pm

RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:14 pm

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 2):
(we even will go through and make sure that all the personal reading lights are turned off... those make heat too).

Hit the test switch twice. It will save you time.
 
Candid76
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 5:10 am

RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:23 pm

Hang on a minute - when the airplane arrives at the gate you put the shade down, right? Or are they expecting pax to do this say just before landing and keep the shades down while you taxi in, past loads of aircraft? I'm really going to do that and not look out and jot down all the registrations of passing aircraft... NOT! I suppose you just ignore the request then.

Over here in the UK it is pretty much universal that shades MUST be up on landing. I can't quote whether it is a CAA rule (although I probably should know!). Safety takes precedence over saving money.
 
airtran717
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:48 am

RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:43 pm

A little tidbit to folks here... many years ago, it used to be an FAR... but now it's done during the Summer months to help keep things cooler... some stations have an air cart for every gate. Most do not. The cooling duty defers to the APU and depending on where you are, and especially the equipment, lowering the shades doesn't necessarily aid in cost, but cooling ability. And, it should only be done at the gate. Someone else is correct, shades are to be up for taxi and takeoff.
 
airtran717
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:48 am

RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:45 pm

Quoting Skyweasy82 (Reply 37):
Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 2):
(we even will go through and make sure that all the personal reading lights are turned off... those make heat too).

Hit the test switch twice. It will save you time.

That depends on the equipment. Not all planes have test switches. I just wish there was a switch to open and close all the gasper fans!!! Now THAT would be helpful.
 
AIR757200
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 8:30 am

RE: AA..Shades Down

Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:08 pm

Quoting Candid76 (Reply 38):
Hang on a minute - when the airplane arrives at the gate you put the shade down, right?

Just for clarification for AA flights: when the aircraft is at the gate only.
 
ABQopsHP
Posts: 461
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 10:47 am

RE: AA..Shades Down

Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:34 am

I makes a big difference. On arrival in ABQ, I would make an announcement when we opened the door, for the customres to close the shades. If the a/c has a weak APU, it needs all the help it can get, along with the ground a/c.
ABQ ops, Cactus 202 requesting you order 5 Green Chile Chicken stew for us to p/u on arrival. ;)
 
captaink
Posts: 4010
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: AA..Shades Down

Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:57 am

Quoting Candid76 (Reply 38):
Hang on a minute - when the airplane arrives at the gate you put the shade down, right? Or are they expecting pax to do this say just before landing and keep the shades down while you taxi in, past loads of aircraft?

We are talking about just before the passengers deplane. As they get up from their seat they pull the shades down.
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