UAL4ever
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Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:38 pm

With El AL no longer flying direct to ORD I feel there is a lack of service. As a Premier executive on UA I have to fly through FRA or YYZ to get to TLV. Any chance United would start a direct flight to TLV from ORD?
 
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mats
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:09 pm

United would probably fly from Washington/Dulles. That's their transatlantic hub, and the origin for their one flight to the Middle East (Kuwait.)

I think that American actually has the route authority to fly to Tel Aviv. But there's some problem because this was originally TWA's route authority, and they broke certain work rules by laying off their Israeli staff when they went bankrupt.

But I don't think it's likely:
1. If El Al wasn't profitable on ORD-TLV (or LAX-ORD-TLV, or ORD-YYZ-TLV), would United have better luck?
2. Flights to Tel Aviv are longer and "tie up" an airplane for longer periods of time than shorter European routes. United might be more interested in using a 767-300 for flights connecting Dulles or O'Hare with SkyTeam hubs, such as Lisbon, Warsaw, Oslo, or Madrid.

On the other hand... Continental's flights to Tel Aviv are reputed to have very high yield and loads. They typically fill their BusinessFirst cabin, and they have a lot of revenue business passengers. (I did, however, have an empty seat next to me in BusinessFirst from Tel Aviv to Newark a few weeks ago.)
 
ORDagent
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting Mats (Reply 1):
Dulles or O'Hare with SkyTeam hubs

Last time I checked UA was a founding member of Star Alliance. However you are correct. LH has lots of service to TLV.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:30 pm

I think theres next to no chance of them starting the route. Apart from everything else, they dont have the metal, so to start the route, they would probably have to pull metal from somewhere else and on an international front they have done that already. Apart from DEN-LHR to start next year dont look for too many new interantional routes from UA to start, unless its to Asia, such as SFO-CAN?
 
MAH4546
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:43 am

Just because an airline pulls out of a market doesn't mean there is a lack of service. Usually when an airline pulls out of a market, it is because of lack of demand. El Al's O'Hare route performed poorly, and there is no reason UA's would do any better.
a.
 
PlaneGuy27
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:34 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
Just because an airline pulls out of a market doesn't mean there is a lack of service. Usually when an airline pulls out of a market, it is because of lack of demand. El Al's O'Hare route performed poorly, and there is no reason UA's would do any better.

Amen to that - add on a lack of profitability as well.

In addition to FRA, MUC and YYZ don't forget about connecting in VIE and ZRH - WAW with a long layover.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:37 am

UA strongly relies on its STAR partner, LH, when it comes to Europe and Middle East destinations such as TLV......I dont see UA launching a nonstop ORD-TLV service for a couple of reasons, first, it would probably require a 772 (the segment is a bit long for UA's 763ERs), second, UA does not have a spare longhaul aircraft available, never mind the two it would take to operate this route daily and, three, if UA were interested in TLV they would probably open the route out of IAD. I am sure that there would be adequate demand for an ORD-TLV service, but the yields could be problematic. As far as LH is concerned, its probably one of those many destinations that it will leave for LH to handle on their behalf......I dont see much transatlantic growth coming from UA; if and when UA expands (which depends so much on if and when UA will acquire additional airplanes) it will be over the Pacific....and UA may find itself in the position of defending its huge pacific network if DL does launch LAX-Asia routes (as many expect) and if CO and NW deploy their new 787s on innovative new routes from their respective hub cities to Asia.

Wasn't there a rumor that US was seriously looking at PHL-TLV; maybe US will represent the STAR alliance on a nonstop service connecting the US and Israel?
 
ORD Boy 2
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:21 am

I read the rumor on PHL-TLV I cant find the link but I think that LY screwed the pooch so to say on ORD by sky high fares and selling limited seats from ORD. With what we have seen from DL and CO on the route and US looking at it, I think it is only a matter of time before UA AA US NW all have service to Israel, it might not be within 5 years but it is a possibility within 10
 
Viscount724
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:41 am

Quoting ORDagent (Reply 2):
However you are correct. LH has lots of service to TLV.

If not mistaken, LH has the most capacity to TLV of any airline other than LY.
 
IAD380
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:01 am

I agree with all those who say that if UA expands its international route network, it will focus on trans-Pacific, not trans-Atlantic, flights.

If direct flights between ORD and TLV resume, I think that LY, not an American carrier, will restart this service. However, LY would first have to learn from its past mistakes. If LY ever decides to restart TLV-ORD, it will need to offer non-stop flights at times that are convenient to its passengers, and at prices that attract travellers. Additionally, it will need to find a codeshare partner for routes to the United States. Probably, AA is the best codeshare partner for LY on its flights to JFK, MIA, LAX, and ORD (if it returns there). LY destinations in the United States are either AA hubs or focus cities. Additionally, AA could profitably serve TLV through a codeshare. However, AA could not start its own flight to TLV in the foreseeable future because of its dispute with former TW employees, and it does not have spare longhaul aircraft to deploy on this route.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:09 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 9):
If direct flights between ORD and TLV resume, I think that LY, not an American carrier, will restart this service. However, LY would first have to learn from its past mistakes. If LY ever decides to restart TLV-ORD, it will need to offer non-stop flights at times that are convenient to its passengers, and at prices that attract travellers. Additionally, it will need to find a codeshare partner for routes to the United States. Probably, AA is the best codeshare partner for LY on its flights to JFK, MIA, LAX, and ORD (if it returns there). LY destinations in the United States are either AA hubs or focus cities

I think that EL AL already has a relationship with DL......although the status of that deal may change with DL starting its own JFK-TLV flights next summer.

I do agree that EL AL has had an odd history at ORD.....and if they do return, it should be with nonstop flights. (EL AL has flown ORD-TLV via many different cities over the years). Nonstop service ORD-TLV, 3 times per week in the winter and 5 times per week in the summer (with 777s) would be a winner.....the thing is that EL AL has always been so focused on its lucrative NYC services that other cities in North America have never really gotten the attention that they deserve; maybe that will change in the future.
 
IAD380
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:32 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
I think that EL AL already has a relationship with DL......although the status of that deal may change with DL starting its own JFK-TLV flights next summer.

I have read on other threads that EL AL and DL will terminate their codeshare agreement in October, even though DL won't start JFK-TLV flights until March 2008.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
the thing is that EL AL has always been so focused on its lucrative NYC services that other cities in North America have never really gotten the attention that they deserve; maybe that will change in the future.

Dutchjet, I totally agree with you on this one. Too bad you and I disagree on whether TLV-EZE could ever be a feasible route. Best regards - IAD380
 
MAH4546
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:42 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
the thing is that EL AL has always been so focused on its lucrative NYC services that other cities in North America have never really gotten the attention that they deserve; maybe that will change in the future.

It has already changed, as we see Los Angeles and Miami now have three weekly non-stops each to Tel Aviv. One of the primary reasons that O'Hare was discontinued is because El Al decided it wasn't feasible to run the route non-stop.
a.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
It has already changed, as we see Los Angeles and Miami now have three weekly non-stops each to Tel Aviv. One of the primary reasons that O'Hare was discontinued is because El Al decided it wasn't feasible to run the route non-stop.

When you say ""feasible"".......are you suggesting that EL AL determined that there was not adequate demand for ORD-TLV nonstop with couple times per week frequency, or that ORD-TLV would not be profitable, or does EL AL simply not have the aircraft available to run the route? Interesting, from what I have heard, MIA-TLV nonstop has been a runaway success (friends fly it often and its a challenge to get a seat in J class from what they say) and LAX-TLV is also doing well, thus, why the doubts about ORD?

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 11):
Dutchjet, I totally agree with you on this one. Too bad you and I disagree on whether TLV-EZE could ever be a feasible route

That was a long time ago.....sometimes its fun to agree to disagree. Regards.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:38 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):

When you say ""feasible"".......are you suggesting that EL AL determined that there was not adequate demand for ORD-TLV nonstop with couple times per week frequency, or that ORD-TLV would not be profitable, or does EL AL simply not have the aircraft available to run the route? Interesting, from what I have heard, MIA-TLV nonstop has been a runaway success (friends fly it often and its a challenge to get a seat in J class from what they say) and LAX-TLV is also doing well, thus, why the doubts about ORD?

It came down to it not being a profitable opportunity, from what I've heard. And it doesn't surprise me. The route has always struggled. Even when MIA and LAX were via Montreal, New York City, or Toronto, they have traditionally performed very well. Chicago, however, has always struggled, and was dropped for a short time after 9/11. Chicago does have the fourth largest Israeli ex-pat community in the US (it's simple to guess where the first, second, and third largest are), which was a main driving force behind trying to keep the route going.

As for MIA-TLV, there is room for improvement on yields, but it's been an overall a strong performer, and it is averaging an unheard of 100% load-factor. Yes, 100%. Month after month.
a.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
Just because an airline pulls out of a market doesn't mean there is a lack of service. Usually when an airline pulls out of a market, it is because of lack of demand. El Al's O'Hare route performed poorly, and there is no reason UA's would do any better.

I agree and disagree with this. I think UA would do better if they flew the route. They have a very large bank of connections. Its why DL is successful with ATL-TLV. It sure isnt the local market.

However I agree that UA wont be doing this anytime soon.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
amirs
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:32 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
El Al's O'Hare route performed poorly, and there is no reason UA's would do any better.

Ofcourse they would. EL AL has not offered ORD - TLV nonsyop for many many years.
IT was always either via EWR, JFK or YYZ (at the end).

IF UA or AA would offer nonstop ORD - TLV I think they would do much much better than LY.

1. They have the network to bring Midwest pax to ORD - TLV.
2. They can offer nonstop or at the most one stop service from many midwest cities.
3. *alliance and OW networks.

I can definetly see easily a daily 763 or 777 on the route. If DL can make ATL work with daily 777 I am sure UA or AA can make ORD work.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
think that EL AL already has a relationship with DL......although the status of that deal may change with DL starting its own JFK-TLV flights next summer.

Yeah, the codeshare ends end of October,
I agree with above,
AA is probably the best option for LY codeshare.

[Edited 2007-08-11 12:37:31]
 
laca773
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:18 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
As for MIA-TLV, there is room for improvement on yields, but it's been an overall a strong performer, and it is averaging an unheard of 100% load-factor. Yes, 100%. Month after month

By chance does anyone know how well LY is doing on their LAX flights? I
LACA773
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:09 am

Quoting Amirs (Reply 16):
Ofcourse they would. EL AL has not offered ORD - TLV nonsyop for many many years.
IT was always either via EWR, JFK or YYZ (at the end).

IF UA or AA would offer nonstop ORD - TLV I think they would do much much better than LY.

1. They have the network to bring Midwest pax to ORD - TLV.
2. They can offer nonstop or at the most one stop service from many midwest cities.
3. *alliance and OW networks.

I can definetly see easily a daily 763 or 777 on the route. If DL can make ATL work with daily 777 I am sure UA or AA can make ORD work.

This is very true. If DL can make ATL-TLV work, why wouldnt UA or AA be able to make ORD-TLV work? They have a large connection bank to work from. I personally think they could do well on the route, but I dont think either airline will start the route.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 17):
By chance does anyone know how well LY is doing on their LAX flights?

Ive heard the Loads are around 85%. Im not sure about yields.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
amirs
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
think that EL AL already has a relationship with DL......although the status of that deal may change with DL starting its own JFK-TLV flights next summer.



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 17):
By chance does anyone know how well LY is doing on their LAX flights? I
LACA773



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 18):

Ive heard the Loads are around 85%. Im not sure about yields.

Not sure exact numbers, but its doinf very very well.
Its always packed months in advance in C and F class.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:37 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 15):
I agree and disagree with this. I think UA would do better if they flew the route. They have a very large bank of connections. Its why DL is successful with ATL-TLV. It sure isnt the local market.



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 18):
This is very true. If DL can make ATL-TLV work, why wouldnt UA or AA be able to make ORD-TLV work?

One thing to consider: Delta's ATL-TLV flight is extremely popular with pax headed to/from Florida.....there are a good number of pax flying MIA/FLL/PBI-TLV and return; US residents visiting Israel and Israeli visiting Florida, a mix of business, leisure and VFR traffic. I would not be surprised if other Florida cities also contribute to the pax load on the ATL-TLV flights. I have no exact numbers but I do suspect that I am correct. If UA would launch ORD-TLV (and think that we all basically agree that they will not), they would not have a niche such as this to help support the flight.....which would make the service a more difficult proposition. Just something to think about, regards.
 
amirs
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:26 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 20):
One thing to consider: Delta's ATL-TLV flight is extremely popular with pax headed to/from Florida.....there are a good number of pax flying MIA/FLL/PBI-TLV and return; US residents visiting Israel and Israeli visiting Florida, a mix of business, leisure and VFR traffic. I would not be surprised if other Florida cities also contribute to the pax load on the ATL-TLV flights. I have no exact numbers but I do suspect that I am correct. If UA would launch ORD-TLV (and think that we all basically agree that they will not), they would not have a niche such as this to help support the flight.....which would make the service a more difficult proposition. Just something to think about, regards.

ORD - TLV would be good for many Midwest and west coast pax.

LY should have MIA - TLV daily and codeshare with AA if they really want to succeed on the route.
 
atlaaron
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:31 am

US has mentioned starting TLV service from PHL, so you could get Star Alliance miles that way too.

EDIT: Sorry I just realized this was already mentioned above.

[Edited 2007-08-11 22:36:08]
 
IAD380
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 18):
If DL can make ATL-TLV work, why wouldnt UA or AA be able to make ORD-TLV work?

Probably because they won't even try. In contrast to CO and DL, expanding their trans-Atlantic network is not a major priority for either AA or UA. Their priorities are elsewhere. AA, in particular, has no incentive to fly to TLV. First, it would have to settle its labor dispute with former TW employees. Starting a route to a new destination that is far from its hubs is costly, and AA may not have the aircraft to dedicate to this route. However, codesharing with LY on its routes to the United States would prove profitable for AA.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 20):
One thing to consider: Delta's ATL-TLV flight is extremely popular with pax headed to/from Florida.

A DL flight attendant who regularly flies the ATL-TLV route stated in his trip report on A Net that these flights attract a lot of passengers who are travelling to or from Latin America.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:36 am

Quoting Amirs (Reply 21):
ORD - TLV would be good for many Midwest and west coast pax.

When in comes to Israel-US........demand to/from Florida is far more interesting than the Midwest and/or even the West Coast. Also, consider that many pax travelling West Coast-Israel have the option of flying with an EU carrier via a European hub.

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 23):
A DL flight attendant who regularly flies the ATL-TLV route stated in his trip report on A Net that these flights attract a lot of passengers who are travelling to or from Latin America.

Is the DL flight timed for these connections? Uh oh, are going to discuss EZE-TLV once again?!  Smile

Quoting Amirs (Reply 21):
LY should have MIA - TLV daily and codeshare with AA if they really want to succeed on the route.

EL AL, even without AA, could certainly keep the seats filled, but yields could be of issue.....

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
As for MIA-TLV, there is room for improvement on yields, but it's been an overall a strong performer, and it is averaging an unheard of 100% load-factor. Yes, 100%. Month after month.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:37 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 20):
I would not be surprised if other Florida cities also contribute to the pax load on the ATL-TLV flights.

Fort Lauderdale is the number one feeder onto the flight, followed by Miami, Orlando, and West Palm Beach. Not surprisingly, the flight typically has more FLL-originating passengers than ATL-originating passengers.
a.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:49 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25):
Fort Lauderdale is the number one feeder onto the flight, followed by Miami, Orlando, and West Palm Beach. Not surprisingly, the flight typically has more FLL-originating passengers than ATL-originating passengers.

I wonder how these passengers used to travel to Israel...via NYC, or a European hub, or what?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
dutchjet
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:55 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 26):
I wonder how these passengers used to travel to Israel...via NYC, or a European hub, or what?

Nothing scientific, just chatting with friends and neighbors that have used the DL flight and, in fact, have flown FLL-ATL-TLV......in the past, they flew via the NYC area, mainly flying to NYC to connect to EL AL flights to/from Israel.

I have heard two main comments.....they avoid NYC and its weather (especially in the winter) and it seems that the Delta flight to TLV was a ""good buy"" this past winter, I heard some say that they saved a bit of money by flying DL instead of doing the NYC/EL AL thing.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:01 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 26):

I wonder how these passengers used to travel to Israel...via NYC, or a European hub, or what?

Well, El Al has been flying to Miami since the early 1990s. In fact, Delta starting Atlanta-Tel Aviv was one of the primary driving forces behind El Al launching Miami_Tel Aviv non-stops, since it for the first time left an option other than going via New York City (since El Al's flights usedto allstop in Newark). Even though Delta announced ATL-TLV first, El Al started MIA-TLV before Delta launched Atlanta service.

Swiss is an extremely popular option for MIA-TLV. They carry a good 30-40 passengers a day between Miami and Tel Aviv.
a.
 
IAD380
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:53 am

I think that ATL-TLV primarily depends on connecting traffic. Although I do not know the statistics, I doubt that ATL-TLV generates a lot of O&D traffic. In contrast, TLV-ORD may depend more heavily on O&D traffic instead of passengers in transit. ATL offers convenient connections to passengers who are travelling between Israel, Florida, Texas, and Latin America. ORD primarily offers convenient connections to other cities in the midwest, where demand for flights to or from TLV may not be so high.
 
UAL4ever
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:03 am

One of the main reasons I think it would be great is because I have flown to TLV through YYZ on Air Canada, and FRA on LH. Next time I think I will try ORD-IAD-ZRH-TLV as I really have not been enjoying the FRA conection. At first I flew through YYZ a couple of times but I was not a big fan of sitting in coach on the 11 hour flight. I figured through ORD I could at least be upgraded to FRA and then just sit in coach for the 4 hour flight to TLV. The problem is to get the UA flights to/from ORD it is a 4-5 hor layover on the outbound and 3 hours on the return not to mention I can't stand the flight from TLV-ORD that leaves between 4:30 and 5:30 am based on the seasons. On all these flights be it AC or LH many of the passengers are connecting from the midwest so I believe UA could make this route profitable especially given the success of CO and DL on the TLV routs. It is annoying for me because I would prefer to connect somewhere in the US to fly to TLV but for star aliance there is no option. I also can't imagine that US would really start PHL-TLV before UA would start service to TLV if not from ORD, at least from IAD.
 
UAL4ever
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:08 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 29):
ORD primarily offers convenient connections to other cities in the midwest, where demand for flights to or from TLV may not be so high.

There is demand from many midwestern cities such as Milwaukee, Chicago, Minneapolis, Detroit, and even places like Denver where flying to ATL is out of the way and I'm sure if there were an ORD-TLV flight people would prefer ORD over ATL from these cities. Also it could be a nice alternative from NYC as some people are committed to avoiding JFK.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:20 pm

DL's flights to/from TLV are timed to best connect with its flights to/from central America rather than deep S. America, other than the daylight GRU flight for the part of the year it operates.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:29 pm

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 31):
There is demand from many midwestern cities such as Milwaukee, Chicago, Minneapolis, Detroit, and even places like Denver where flying to ATL is out of the way and I'm sure if there were an ORD-TLV flight people would prefer ORD over ATL from these cities. Also it could be a nice alternative from NYC as some people are committed to avoiding JFK.

Not only that, but were forgetting the West Coast. Outside NYC and (debateably Southern Florida), Los Angeles sends more people to TLV than anywhere else in the US. LY does well on its nonstop flight to LAX, but it doesnt operate every day and its rather expensive to fly on. ORD-TLV could capture traffic from not just LA, but San Fran, Seattle and other markets out here too.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 32):
DL's flights to/from TLV are timed to best connect with its flights to/from central America rather than deep S. America, other than the daylight GRU flight for the part of the year it operates.

If there is one thing DL is a master of, its connecting people through ATL. I pin the success of DL's ATL-TLV on that. Lord knows its isnt local traffic.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
Swiss is an extremely popular option for MIA-TLV.

LX also captures a very large portion of the LAX-TLV market as well.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
MAH4546
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:16 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 33):
. Outside NYC and (debateably Southern Florida), Los Angeles sends more people to TLV than anywhere else in the

Nothing "debatable" about Southern Florida. It's Tel Aviv's second largest trans-Atlantic O&D market. While Southern California and South Florida have roughly the same amount of Jews, South Florida has more than double the amount of Israelis. There is also strong business/cargo traffic thanks to banking and biochem industires. Though with so much VFR traffic on MIA-TLV, LAX-TLV is a more premium market.

[Edited 2007-08-12 08:17:55]
a.
 
IAD380
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RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:04 am

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 30):
I also can't imagine that US would really start PHL-TLV before UA would start service to TLV if not from ORD, at least from IAD.

I believe it because US has repeatedly signaled its intent to start PHL-TLV flights. In contrast, UA has not shown much interest in flying from either ORD or IAD to TLV although these routes may be very profitable. Personally, I wish that TLV would be high on UA's list of new international destinations, but it is not. I agree with you that TLV would benefit more from flights to ORD and IAD than it would from flights to PHL. However, US is interested in the TLV market, and UA is not. If any airline starts flights from TLV to ORD and IAD, it will be LY not UA.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:18 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 35):
However, US is interested in the TLV market, and UA is not.

Dont get too excited about US launching service to TLV.......the PHL-TLV discussion came up in connection with US's China proposal and its idea to pick up second hand A340s (AC A345s were discussed, LH A343s were mentioned, etc) to operate that route. The question of what US would do with the A343s if it did not get the China authority.....and then it was said that PHL-TLV could be a possible route. The rumor then became part of US's future plans to expand longhaul service from its PHL hub.......its really hard to say if US is serious about PHL-TLV.
 
IAD380
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:34 am

RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:25 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):
its really hard to say if US is serious about PHL-TLV.

I agree with you. Although officials at USAir have from expressed interest in launching PHL-TLV, it is uncertain that US will actually do so anytime soon. At this time, all discussions about US flights to TLV are speculation and conjecture. The only point I made earlier was that US is more likely to start flights to TLV before UA, which has never expressed any interest in this route. The likelihood that either airline will start flying to TLV within the next few years is low.
 
El Al 001
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 1999 11:50 pm

RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:23 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
In fact, Delta starting Atlanta-Tel Aviv was one of the primary driving forces behind El Al launching Miami_Tel Aviv non-stops, since it for the first time left an option other than going via New York City (since El Al's flights usedto allstop in Newark).

That is simply wrong. That was really not the reason.

The only reason for making MIA flights nonstop was in order to stop the great loss of the feeding flights, 1st operated by NAA and then by LY 744/777 via NYC.

While current service may not be that profitable, its much, much better than it used to be.

But MIA still has to go under massive work from LY in order to succeed.

Mike
 
IAD380
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:34 am

RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 38):
MIA still has to go under massive work from LY in order to succeed.

All the signs indicates that El Al nonstop flights to MIA are a success. These flights are always full, and they are popular with both business and leisure travellers. TLV-MIA seems to be a profitable route for LY. However, LY still needs to upgrade its service to MIA if it wants to improve its profit margin and compete more effectively with DL and LX. LY should consider flying a 777 or 787 to MIA, and increasing the number flights it offers each week. Also, LY should time its MIA flights so they conveniently connect with AA flights to Latin America.
 
amirs
Posts: 1237
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:20 am

RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:06 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 39):
LY should consider flying a 777 or 787 to MIA

LY should FIRST consdier being SERIOUS on ordering 787!!!!!!
 
laca773
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:31 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 18):
Ive heard the Loads are around 85%. Im not sure about yields



Quoting Amirs (Reply 19):
Not sure exact numbers, but its doinf very very well.
Its always packed months in advance in C and F class.

Thanks for the information. I had some family who took the LAX flight in J and they said it was sold out in both directions.

Has LY thought about making TLV-LAX-TLV a near daily flight with the exception of Saturday?
Is the flight duration approximately 12.5 hours?

LACA773
 
amirs
Posts: 1237
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:20 am

RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:10 pm

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 41):
Has LY thought about making TLV-LAX-TLV a near daily flight with the exception of Saturday?
Is the flight duration approximately 12.5 hours?

LY is a VERY VERY conservative airline.
It took them almost a decade to introduce
5 x HKG flights (from the original 2 weekly)
4 x BOM and JNB (FINALLY)

the flight o LAX is more like 15 hours.
 
El Al 001
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 1999 11:50 pm

RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:12 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 39):
All the signs indicates that El Al nonstop flights to MIA are a success. These flights are always full, and they are popular with both business and leisure travellers. TLV-MIA seems to be a profitable route for LY.

Tell that at El Al.
Other than load factor, there are more things like rotation cost, yield, cargo, schedule, a/c performance.... etc'
Were these all taken in mind when saying "All signs indicates"?
There are reasons why not any other airline in the world flies a 762 for a 14:30 hours journey. Simply - it cant make money.
 
BoeingBoy
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:36 am

RE: Any Chance UA Will Start ORD-TLV?

Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:50 am

Quoting UAL4ever (Thread starter):
With El AL no longer flying direct to ORD I feel there is a lack of service. As a Premier executive on UA I have to fly through FRA or YYZ to get to TLV. Any chance United would start a direct flight to TLV from ORD?

What's Premier executive got to do with anything -
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