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FlagshipAZ
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7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:45 am

Hi folks...
This is probably old news to some of you A.netters here, but it never ceases to amaze me that the 737 has been built almost 7,000 times built to a single, basic design since 1967. The 7,000th 737 is being assembled right now for Lion Air...a -900ER model. Looking at the Boeing website today, there's a photo of the unfinished fuselage behind a large group of Boeing's employees spelling out "7,000". And there are 1600 more 737s yet to be built. Can this immortal airplane see 10,000 of it kind one day? All I can say is.....Wow!
Thoughts & opinions anyone? Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
FrancoBlanco
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:59 am

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/news/2007/q3/070809d_pr.html

It's not the 7,000th 737 built, they're celebrating the 7,000th order, if you read carefully. The most recent linenumbers off the production line are around 2,300, that's 2,300 NGs plus 3132 classics = about 5,400 built plus 1,600 on order = 7,000.

Sebastian
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n710ps
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:59 am

It is a crying shame the airplane is going to who it is but Congrats to Boeing.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:07 am

Franco...yes, you're right. I did mis-read the article. My bad. Sorry for the screwup, folks. Must get eyes check. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
kaitak
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Thread starter):
The 7,000th 737 is being assembled right now for Lion Air...a -900ER model.

Not quite right, as FrancoBlanco points out, but hey, it will make it to that mark and no doubt well beyond.

Quoting N710PS (Reply 2):
It is a crying shame the airplane is going to who it is but Congrats to Boeing

Well, it's good to see Indonesian carriers improve and invest in their fleets; they certainly need to. On that count, I don't see it as a bad think; who would you like it to go to? WN? FR?

Anyway, it is a massive achievement, regardless of the number ordered/delivered; the biggest selling civil acft of all time was the DC3, with around 10,596 (I think?), but remember that most of these were delivered to the military during WW2; with the 737, although some have clearly been operated by the military, it's predominantly a civil airliner.

What always amuses me is if you make a comparison between the 737-100 and the -900; apart from the common fuselage, they're virtually totally different aircraft. Different cockpit, engines, wings, tail, components, avionics - oh yes, and the small size difference.

The first DC3 was, I think delivered around 1935-36 and production lasted only until 1947, about 12 years, while the 737 has been in production 40 years (this year!) ... if the DC3 had still been in production in 1975/76 and the last version bore the same resemblance to the original as the 739 does to the 731, what would it have looked like!!!

There's a challenge for the "Modified Airliner Picture" fans!!
 
DAYflyer
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:21 am

Well with the Y1 project creeping around the corner, I seriously doubt it will ever see 10,000 sold. But hell yes, 7,000 sales for a single airframe (in all its varients throughout it's life) is amazing. You can bet the A-320 will never see that number.
One Nation Under God
 
tdscanuck
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Thread starter):
the 737 has been built almost 7,000 times built to a single, basic design since 1967

I'm with Kaitak...other than the fuselage mold lines, the 737's coming off the assembly line today have relatively little in common with the first 737. I'd be surprised if there was a single common P/N between the two.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 4):
the biggest selling civil acft of all time was the DC3, with around 10,596 (I think?)

Total run was over 13,000. 10,655 out of California, the rest built on license to Russia and Japan. A Boeing guy once told me that the Russians weren't serializing them at the time and the records are long gone so they don't actually know how many were built.

Tom.
 
redflyer
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:05 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 4):
the biggest selling civil acft of all time was the DC3, with around 10,596 (I think?),

I think that 10,596 number reflects how many were built in the U.S. If you include the number built under license in other countries, I belive the number is closer to 15,000.

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 5):
But hell yes, 7,000 sales for a single airframe (in all its varients throughout it's life) is amazing.

Boeing expected to sell only about 250 copies when the program was originally launched back in the 60's. Now there's a bad market analysis if I ever saw one!

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 5):
You can bet the A-320 will never see that number.

I think there's a good chance we might see the A320 series reach that number. With the Chinese starting to build them as well I think their relative availability may provide airlines with access to a low cost, very efficient, and modern airliner for many years to come.

While many say the 737 is the DC-3 of the jet age, I think the A320 may supplant it. The 737 has had to go through several major changes to keep selling while the A320, like the DC-3, is very little changed from the first ones that rolled off the assembly line. Besides, the 737 was just another jet in the jet age when it was introduced. The A320, like the DC-3, was revolutionary in a lot of ways when it came along.

I also think as Boeing gears up for Y1 they will be constantly looking over their shoulder to see how much the cost of production (which ultimately translates into price) for the A320 keeps going down. Because ultimately, that will determine how much more efficient and cost-effective their new design has to be in order to make a compelling business case for it.
A government big enough to take away a constitutionally guaranteed right is a government big enough to take away any guaranteed right. A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything you have.
 
Viscount724
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:28 am

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 6):
Quoting Kaitak (Reply 4):
the biggest selling civil acft of all time was the DC3, with around 10,596 (I think?)

Total run was over 13,000. 10,655 out of California, the rest built on license to Russia and Japan. A Boeing guy once told me that the Russians weren't serializing them at the time and the records are long gone so they don't actually know how many were built.

Yes I've seen articles mentioning that as many as 6,000 may have been built in Russia (as the Lisunov Li-2).
 
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BlueSky1976
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:35 am

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Thread starter):
Can this immortal airplane see 10,000 of it kind one day?

With Y1 looming on the horizon, probably not. But a 9000 frames is almost a given - unless Boeing launches Y1 next year.

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 5):
You can bet the A-320 will never see that number.

If Airbus does A320NG the same way Boeing did 737NG, I bet you it will.
The queen of the skies is dead.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:43 am

Quoting FrancoBlanco (Reply 1):
It's not the 7,000th 737 built, they're celebrating the 7,000th order, if you read carefully. The most recent linenumbers off the production line are around 2,300, that's 2,300 NGs plus 3132 classics = about 5,400 built plus 1,600 on order = 7,000.

We (SWA) took delivery of the 5,000th one (N230WN) back in February, 2006, so I was kind of wondering how Boeing managed to build 2,000 more of them in just 18 months...  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
roseflyer
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:06 am

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Thread starter):
The 7,000th 737 is being assembled right now for Lion Air...a -900ER model.

There are no 739ERs currently being assembled. The fifth one was just delivered. Right now the factory is at around 5400, with the 2370th NG in the factory.

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Thread starter):
Looking at the Boeing website today, there's a photo of the unfinished fuselage behind a large group of Boeing's employees spelling out "7,000".

I'm actually standing in that picture. I'm in the last zero. I'm not sure the fuselage behind us was even supposed to be there. It happened to be there the morning that the photo was taken since the picture is taken right in front of the factory doors, so often there are barrels sitting there. It has no real significance. I think that one is actually going to Ryannair if I remember correctly.

Quoting N710PS (Reply 2):
It is a crying shame the airplane is going to who it is but Congrats to Boeing.

It is not known who the actual 7000th plane will go to. Delivery schedules are not set that far ahead of time. Lion Air only ordered the plane.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
roseflyer
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:20 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 11):
I think that one is actually going to Ryannair if I remember correctly.

Sorry, I think I was wrong. I believe the plane in the background will be going to Jet Airways.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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scbriml
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:24 am

7,000 sales for the 737 is a great achievement. yes 

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 5):
You can bet the A-320 will never see that number.

It's far from impossible that the A320 family will see 7,000 sales, especially if Airbus does introduce an A320E. The A320 family has already achieved over 5,300 sales in some 20 years less than three distinct generations of the 737 family have taken to reach 7,000. To put the difference in perspective, the A320 has been on sale for only half the time that the 737 has been. scratchchin 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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brendows
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:56 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 13):
It's far from impossible that the A320 family will see 7,000 sales, especially if Airbus does introduce an A320E.

I fully agree  Smile

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 13):
The A320 family has already achieved over 5,300 sales in some 20 years less than three distinct generations of the 737 family have taken to reach 7,000.

Well, 6174 orders for the 737 have been signed since the A320 was launched back in 1982. The 737 didn't sell too well for the first seventeen years compared to the sales figures we've seen since then.
 
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RobK
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:32 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 11):
There are no 739ERs currently being assembled. The fifth one was just delivered.

Are you sure Rose? According to my notes it's still at Seattle, but is due to delivery very soon.    Has it gone ahead of schedule? I know for a fact that it was still at BFI late on Friday night, at least.

Rob  

[Edited 2007-08-12 02:34:14]
 
grantcv
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:23 pm

Quoting Brendows (Reply 14):
Well, 6174 orders for the 737 have been signed since the A320 was launched back in 1982. The 737 didn't sell too well for the first seventeen years compared to the sales figures we've seen since then.

The 737 really has had 2 lives. In its first incarnation, it lived in the shadow of the 727 and, while selling alright, was nothing near the success it has become. It's success was the result of Boeing misjudging the market when desiging the 757 and letting airlines like Eastern grow the aircraft too much. The result was a 757, better optimized for a regulated market, and a gaping hole where the market was headed. The 737 had to be updated, initially as a stopgap measure, to fend off the threat of Airbus building a 150 seater while Boeing was looking at the 7J7 as their true 150 seater. That the 737 has achieved the success it has given its muddled and less than promising early life is what is most remarkable.

(I remember a reporter on the Today show, after the Air Florida crash, describing the 737 as the small Boeing we don't see much of in the US as it doesn't fit into the business model of most airlines in the US, but that it had sold well overseas. Times have changed.)
 
tdscanuck
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:33 pm

Quoting RobK (Reply 15):
Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 11):
There are no 739ERs currently being assembled. The fifth one was just delivered.

Are you sure Rose? According to my notes it's still at Seattle, but is due to delivery very soon.

It's still there. Probably will be there through the week.

Tom.
 
zanl188
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:43 pm

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 6):
I'd be surprised if there was a single common P/N between the two.

There's more commonality than that. For example: The early NGs had the same infamous rudder PCU as the first 737s off the line. I'm sure there other, less well known, examples as well.
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AirNZ
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:53 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 5):
You can bet the A-320 will never see that number.

On what grounds do you suppose that, and remembering that the A320 has achieved over 5300 sales in less than half the time the 737 has taken to reach 7000?
An absolutely fantastic achievement for the 737, and congrats to a great aircraft.....but don't get carried away that's it's invincible and the be-all-end-all of the skies
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tdscanuck
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:23 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 12):
Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 11):
I think that one is actually going to Ryannair if I remember correctly.

Sorry, I think I was wrong. I believe the plane in the background will be going to Jet Airways.

Randy's Boeing blog this morning claims it's going to China Southern.

I tried to get a high resolution copy of the photo from boeingmedia.com but even their "Large" version is to blurry to make out the line number on the fuselage.

Tom.
 
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RobK
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:42 am

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 20):
I tried to get a high resolution copy of the photo from boeingmedia.com but even their "Large" version is to blurry to make out the line number on the fuselage.

Tom, fear not! I have the answers!

It's line 2372, block YL435, serial 35380, model -81B, customer CSN, reg B-5339.  spin 

R
 
roseflyer
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Mon Aug 13, 2007 2:07 am

Quoting RobK (Reply 21):
It's line 2372, block YL435, serial 35380, model -81B, customer CSN, reg B-5339.

Good one! That plane's in the factory now.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 6):
I'm with Kaitak...other than the fuselage mold lines, the 737's coming off the assembly line today have relatively little in common with the first 737. I'd be surprised if there was a single common P/N between the two.

That's not true. As someone who has seen the drawings for the plane, there are a lot of components that still use original designs form the 60s. Many systems in the plane have not been changed since the original design. There were far fewer changes made between the classics and the next generations. A lot of designs are carryovers. Proven designs of many comonents do not change with time. Yes you are correct that P/Ns are not the same anymore, but that doesn't mean that parts aren't similar designs and that the work of the engineers in the 1960s isn't still used today. P/Ns change and all the drawings are new, but you have to expect that over 40 years on a high production airplane like the 737. The drawings have all been redone using CAD instead of pencil sketched drawings, except for maybe a few suppliers.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
zanl188
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:07 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 13):
It's far from impossible that the A320 family will see 7,000 sales, especially if Airbus does introduce an A320E. The A320 family has already achieved over 5,300 sales in some 20 years less than three distinct generations of the 737 family have taken to reach 7,000. To put the difference in perspective, the A320 has been on sale for only half the time that the 737 has been.

To further put the matter in perspective the 737 has sold better than all Airbus models combined... and in a similar timeframe....
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HAWK21M
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:29 am

A very Mx Friendly & easy accessable Aircraft.
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regds
MEL
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grantcv
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RE: 7,000th 737 To Lion Air

Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:20 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 22):
That's not true. As someone who has seen the drawings for the plane, there are a lot of components that still use original designs form the 60s. Many systems in the plane have not been changed since the original design. There were far fewer changes made between the classics and the next generations. A lot of designs are carryovers. Proven designs of many comonents do not change with time. Yes you are correct that P/Ns are not the same anymore, but that doesn't mean that parts aren't similar designs and that the work of the engineers in the 1960s isn't still used today. P/Ns change and all the drawings are new, but you have to expect that over 40 years on a high production airplane like the 737. The drawings have all been redone using CAD instead of pencil sketched drawings, except for maybe a few suppliers.

Well, the wings and tail surfaces are all new - nothing in common with the older designs. The engines are new. The landing gear got a little taller if I remember correctly. The flight deck is new as are all the cabin fittings. There were a number of fatigue issues along the fuselage sides that required some redesign there. So I would imagine that all that is left is some portions of the fuselage, the doors, the floors and maybe a few other parts here and there. And even the parts that were carryover had to be produced on new tooling as the old tooling had worn out and didn't provide the stricter tolerances expected by Boeing's modern manufacturing methods. The best part is that despite all that change, the 737 remained the 737 - it didn't get a new name and marketing to try and convince the world it wasn't a 737 anymore.

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