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airevents
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LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:26 pm

Hello there,

it seems like it is official now: starting May 1st, 2008, LH offers the following flights ex Dusseldorf (just found it on the CRS):

DUS-ORD LH 436 A340
DUS-EWR LH 408 A340
DUS-YYZ LH 472 A340.

Congratulations Dusseldorf, quite a move!
 
TriStar500
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:53 pm

Daily services?

How do you translate "Konkurrenz belebt das Geschaeft"?  Wink If it would not have been for the AB/LT/DI-Merger and the new nonstop flights of CO, DL and NW, we certainly would not have seen these new services, which are the first examples in about six years for hub-bypassing longhaul flights operated by LH.
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Avianca
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:19 pm

Quoting Airevents (Thread starter):
DUS-ORD LH 436 A340
DUS-EWR LH 408 A340
DUS-YYZ LH 472 A340.

Congratulations Dusseldorf, quite a move!

I am not sure if its a good move... remember LH has already 2 hubs.... before putting the 340 on routes ex DUS they should better fill the gap in the Southamerican network... LIM, BOG, GIG
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usairways85
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:20 pm

Looks like EWR is getting back to pre 9/11 levels when LH had daily flts to FRA, MUC, and DUS
 
TriStar500
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:37 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 2):
I am not sure if its a good move... remember LH has already 2 hubs.... before putting the 340 on routes ex DUS they should better fill the gap in the Southamerican network... LIM, BOG, GIG

This is a purely re-active and not a pro-active move. I don't believe that LH honestly expects to make a fortune with these flights, they most likely intend to just break even and make it more difficult for the new direct-flying competitors at DUS/ CGN to operate their services economically.
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upperdeckfan
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:44 pm

Quoting Airevents (Thread starter):
DUS-EWR LH 408 A340

Why EWR instead of JFK?

EWR doesn't offer connections for STAR while partner UA offer some connections out of JFK.
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usairways85
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:47 pm

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 5):
STAR while partner UA offer some connections out of JFK.

UA offers very few connections at JFK (LAX, SFO). There are more UA flts to more destinations at EWR(SFO, LAX, DEN, ORD, IAD) than JFK.

JFK and EWR as a whole are rather weak Star airports with minimal North American Star presence.
 
DALCE
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:52 pm

Just started a new topic and did not see this one :S

It's now official :

As of the summer '08 schedule LH will operate and base 3 A340-300's at DUS to improve and increase the services from DUS.

The daily Privatair 319 DUS-EWR will be upgraded into 343 ( 3-class )
The 5x weekly A 319 DUS-ORD will also be upgraded into 343 ( 3-class )
A new 5x weekly DUS-YYZ ( 3-class 343 ) will be installed

The 319's will be transferred to FRA to serve an early FRA-JFK rotation.

Seems that LT / AB is getting some serious competition in DUS

Brgds,
DALCE
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Humberside
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:26 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 6):
There are more UA flts to more destinations at EWR(SFO, LAX, DEN, ORD, IAD) than JFK.

US also have more destinations out of EWR than JFK

Quoting DALCE (Reply 7):
The 319's will be transferred to FRA to serve an early FRA-JFK rotation.

What about the recently started BBJ service on FRA-EWR? And will there be an overall reduction in Privitair flying for LH as even if LH have them do once daily on both FRA-EWR and FRA-JFK, thats one less daily flight that at the moment
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RAFVC10
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:07 am

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 1):
Daily services?

ORD served weekly except on wednesday.

EWR served daily.

YYZ served weekly except on Tuesday.

Regards,

Gerard
El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
 
MAH4546
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:44 am

It's clear they are aiming to protect themselves against a now stronger LTU/Air Berlin, who has become much more agressive in their long-haul schedules across the Atlantic. If this works and LH has the planes, I wouldn't be surprised to see some more A340s and service to Los Angeles, Bangkok, and/or Miami, which are key LTU cities.
a.
 
Andie007
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:01 am

Great news for my homeairport.
Especially the flight times to north america are perfect.
 
DALCE
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:09 am

I really think this is a very good move for LH, let's hope the flights will be succesfull.
The only thing what could become somewhat tricky is that there are not too much feederflights into DUS.
It is a good chance for LH to grow in a competitive market like DUS.
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HT
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:25 am

Quoting DALCE (Reply 12):
The only thing what could become somewhat tricky is that there are not too much feederflights into DUS.

At least the timings are that late, that pax will be able to reach DUS by train w/o having to get up in the middle of the night.

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 9):
ORD served weekly except on wednesday. {..}
YYZ served weekly except on Tuesday.

that would be "daily" ...  Wink
YYZ is not served on Tuesday and Thursdays.

With ORD and EWR already established routes for Business Class pax, LH can build on a solid base.

Would "freight" also be a siginificant contributing factor of income out of / into DUS ?
-HT
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N383PA
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:38 am

LH 408 X7 DUS EWR B 1000 1220 0 01MAY08 04AUG08 343 8:20
LH 436 X3 DUS ORD 5 1235 1440 0 01MAY08 25OCT08 343 9:05
LH 472 X2 DUS YYZ 1 1235 1455 0 01MAY08 07MAY08 343 8:20

LH 473 X2 YYZ 1 DUS 1635 0605+1 0 01MAY08 07MAY08 343 7:30
LH 437 X3 ORD 1 DUS 1800 0915+1 0 01MAY08 24OCT08 343 8:15
LH 409 D EWR B DUS 1645 0605+1 0 01MAY08 24OCT08 343 7:20


Just for your info

cheers

N383PA
 
LXA340
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:16 am

Quoting DALCE (Reply 7):

The 319's will be transferred to FRA to serve an early FRA-JFK rotation.

So 2 new daily flights with the BBJ from FRA? But LH has already an early flight out of FRA at 10AM, which also leaves JFK again at around 16:00
 
Avianca
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:15 am

Quoting Airevents (Thread starter):
DUS-YYZ LH 472 A340.

DUS: 12:35
YYZ: 14:55
YYZ: 16:35
DUS

Quoting HT (Reply 13):
Would "freight" also be a siginificant contributing factor of income out of / into DUS ?

well I think freight will be additional income... but not really high-yield cargo... even the opposite... they will fill the space with cheap-charly cargo....
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RAFVC10
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting HT (Reply 13):
that would be "daily" ...

Hi HT,

Ok, ok... will be served... Right?  Silly
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johnnybgoode
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 15):
So 2 new daily flights with the BBJ from FRA?

highly unlikely that two PT BBJs/ACJs will operate from FRA to the NYC area.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:00 am

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 5):
EWR doesn't offer connections for STAR while partner UA offer some connections out of JFK.

JFK has almost no UA connectivity and limited US connectivity. They both have big presence at LGA, but that's not useful, and they have at least good connections to their hubs at EWR.

Sometimes I think it hurts LH that their smallest long-hauler is the A333/343. CO 752 and 762 and DL 763, etc. They have to put a big jet on any mid-size route they want to start.
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LAXintl
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:50 am

Article on Lufthansa's DUS strategy

Quote:
Lufthansa Alters Strategy With Shift Of A340s To Duesseldorf
08/15/2007

Lufthansa is making important changes to its long-haul network strategy by basing three Airbus A340-300s at Duesseldorf Airport.

The step is seen as a major change and does not come as a voluntary measure. The airline has so far focused its long-haul network on Frankfurt and Munich while also allowing fully owned subsidiary Swiss to keep and grow its long-haul capacity in Zurich. However, Lufthansa so far has refused to offer long-haul services from any other of its German airports, arguing that markets are not big enough to sustain such an operation.

Lufthansa, however, is under increasing pressure to protect its markets, as airlines such as Emirates are pushing for more traffic rights into Germany and have unlimited rights between Germany and the U.S, while several U.S. carriers, such as Delta and Continental, offer flights to business and population centers such as Stuttgart, Berlin and Hamburg.

Moreover, German competition authorities last week cleared Air Berlin's takeover of LTU. Air Berlin in July placed an order for up to 50 Boeing 787s and is converting itself and affiliate LTU into more of a scheduled airline focused on business traffic.

Duesseldorf is Germany's largest origin/destination market, but has been left aside by Lufthansa for years. Lufthansa's European operations in Duesseldorf are flown mainly by regional affiliate Eurowings and its fully owned subsidiary Lufthansa CityLine.

And a tidbit about the carriers ACJ/BBJ flying

Quote:
The decision to offer mainline long-haul services from Duesseldorf means that the existing Private Air business-class-only flights on a Boeing Business Jet and an Airbus A319CJ to New York and Chicago will be dropped. Lufthansa will also stop the Private Air Boeing Business Jet flight from Munich to New York, citing high demand for larger-capacity aircraft. One BBJ will be shifted to Frankfurt to offer one additional early morning frequency to New York, Lufthansa said. The other two aircraft are to be used in new markets yet to be announced.

Full story (subscription required)
http://www.aviationweek.com/publicat...ith+Shift+Of+A340s+To+Duesseldorf+
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LHUSA
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:02 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 20):
The other two aircraft are to be used in new markets yet to be announced.

I've heard a bit of the new potential routes for the BBJs and they're pretty interesting. I wonder when they will be announced.
 
upperdeckfan
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:24 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 19):
Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 5):
EWR doesn't offer connections for STAR while partner UA offer some connections out of JFK.

JFK has almost no UA connectivity and limited US connectivity. They both have big presence at LGA, but that's not useful, and they have at least good connections to their hubs at EWR.

A question comes to my mind:

Why does LH offer 3xdaily FRA-JFK and 2xdaily FRA-EWR when EWR gives much better options for their FF's. Most of you'll probably say JFK is based just on O&D but giving the fact that EWR is more or less the same distance from midtown manhattan than JFK, this argument doesn't make sense for me.
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LHUSA
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:32 am

It's probably the same reason AF and BA offer so many more flights out of JFK than EWR, but i'm not really sure what that reason is. I know they have more feeder options for BA and AF at JFK with DL and AA, but those connections weren't always there and I'm not even sure how much feed they really provide. I think that JFK has always been considered New York's main airport while EWR was always kind of secondary (no offense New Jersey!). This makes me think... Why has EK not opted to fly out of EWR.

Anyway, can't wait to see what other changes LH has in store this year.

[Edited 2007-08-15 03:33:33]
 
upperdeckfan
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:42 am

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 23):
It's probably the same reason AF and BA offer so many more flights out of JFK than EWR, but i'm not really sure what that reason is. I know they have more feeder options for BA and AF at JFK with DL and AA, but those connections weren't always there and I'm not even sure how much feed they really provide

The connections weren't there for AF and BA when alliance didn't exist so then the argument of the main against the secondary airport probably made sense back then. With the introductions of alliances the business has changed a lot and connecting traffic within alliances is a big focus.

Regarding how much feed BA and AF provide at JFK for AA and DL respectively, I don't know either but for sure it's more than what they do provide on their flights to EWR. So for them (OW/Sky) it makes sense to serve more JFK than EWR.
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Lp0815
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:50 am

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 24):
Regarding how much feed BA and AF provide at JFK for AA and DL respectively, I don't know either but for sure it's more than what they do provide on their flights to EWR. So for them (OW/Sky) it makes sense to serve more JFK than EWR.

AF can offer more connections out of JFK than out of EWR? Why, EWR is CO hub and therefore there should be plenty connections out of EWR. For sure more than out of JFK for AF.
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a3xx900
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:24 am

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 1):
How do you translate "Konkurrenz belebt das Geschaeft"? Wink

"competition stimulates business"  Wink
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upperdeckfan
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:13 pm

Quoting Lp0815 (Reply 25):
AF can offer more connections out of JFK than out of EWR? Why, EWR is CO hub and therefore there should be plenty connections out of EWR. For sure more than out of JFK for AF.

You're right, CO offer more connections out of EWR than DL out of JFK, however the rationale behind AF serving JFK more than EWR is their codeshare agreement with DL.
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wilco737
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:40 pm

Why DUS?! dont get it... Why not Berlin?! Its our capital and we dont have any US flights from there (well, except DL and CO), but no German carrier... In my opinion thats a shame...

WILCO737 (MD11F)
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fraT
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:45 pm

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 28):
Why DUS?! dont get it... Why not Berlin?! Its our capital and we dont have any US flights from there (well, except DL and CO), but no German carrier... In my opinion thats a shame...

Because Berlin doesn't have the market. There is very little corporate travel in contrast to the Rhein-Ruhr region. Until BBI is completed you won't see any intercontinental flights from LH. And even afterwards it's not a save bet.
 
wilco737
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:49 pm

Quoting FraT (Reply 29):
Because Berlin doesn't have the market.

Well, but why are DL and CO flying there if there is NO market... Of course there is no market anymore for LH because they missed the right time to fly that route... So, why not opening a route theirself and making DLs and COs life harder? Big grin

WILCO737 (MD11F)
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fraT
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:05 pm

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 30):
Well, but why are DL and CO flying there if there is NO market... Of course there is no market anymore for LH because they missed the right time to fly that route... So, why not opening a route theirself and making DLs and COs life harder

LH tried the TXL-IAD route and it didn't work.
DL and especially CO have smaller long haul aircraft, which are easier to fill. And both of them have a more or less big hub on the other side of the pond. That makes it a lot easier to operate a route profitable.
 
wilco737
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:07 pm

Quoting FraT (Reply 31):
LH tried the TXL-IAD route and it didn't work.

Then use Privatair BBJ or 319CJ  Big grin like from MUC, DUS and soon from FRA to EWR or ORD... Why not using that from TXL? Small aircraft, easier to fill and especially made for business travel...

WILCO737 (MD11F)
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fraT
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:14 pm

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 32):
Then use Privatair BBJ or 319CJ like from MUC, DUS and soon from FRA to EWR or ORD... Why not using that from TXL? Small aircraft, easier to fill and especially made for business travel...

Because business travel is exactly what Berlin is lacking.
 
wilco737
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:18 pm

Quoting FraT (Reply 33):
Because business travel is exactly what Berlin is lacking.

Alright, then put 80 Y class seats in the BBJ then we should be fine, shouldnt we? Big grin hehe
I guess the guys at LH checked about all that and decided it is not worth it. And I trust those guys, because they decide about my job as well... So they better know what the do  box 

WILCO737 (MD11F)
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LH498
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 19):
Sometimes I think it hurts LH that their smallest long-hauler is the A333/343. CO 752 and 762 and DL 763, etc. They have to put a big jet on any mid-size route they want to start.

I think the same way. This routes could have been an option for their A310s.

Could LH (in theory) return the A310 to service?
There were 3 parked at HAM (or no longer?)
Just a crazy idea Big grin
 
Sabena332
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RE: LH Longhaul Ex DUS 2008

Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:31 am

I heard radio commercials for the new flights on 1Live and WDR 2 while standing in the traditional afternoon traffic jam on the A40 in Dortmund this afternoon. When you book till September 4th you can fly for 333 EUR to all three destinations in May 2008, the 333 EUR are incl. taxes, fees, and ticket service charge.

Patrick
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