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beefer
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SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:14 pm

I know videos of planes landing at St. Maarten SXM are a dime a dozen on the internet, but here's a new one (at least to me) which has to be the lowest I've seen yet.

I don't think you can possibly get any lower on the third landing in the video.


St. Maarten Plane Landings - Watch more free videos
 
EGBJ
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:48 pm

Nice video... Big grin

Are there any plans for SXM to get an ILS installed?

 Smile
 
Sketty222
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:51 pm

The last landing is very very very low. He's lucky he didnt take the roof off of a car

Lee
There's flying and then there's flying
 
kappel
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:54 pm

Is it me, or is it a widescreen shot compressed at the sides to fit a regular screen. The 744 looks a bit fat IMHO
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FlySSC
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:10 pm

Quoting Beefer (Thread starter):
I don't think you can possibly get any lower on the third landing in the video.

Well, you can always get lower ... and finish like this :


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Walter Pietsch

 
National757
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:14 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 4):
Well, you can always get lower ... and finish like this :

Whoa! That's insane!

One of these days I am going to spend a few days in SXM. Sounds like a perfect vacation spot for the aviation enthusiast!
 
BCAL
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:23 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 4):
Well, you can always get lower ... and finish like this

But that DC10 was attempting to take off. Here is a picture that shows a low, low landing that made a truck driver slam on his brakes to let the aircraft fly overhead.


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Photo © Marlo Plate - Iberian Spotters

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FlySSC
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:24 pm

Take a look at the most viewed picture of A.Net (and many more), and you will see that such a "low" approach is actually quite common at SXM


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Photo © Justin Cederholm


 
Kevin777
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:27 pm

Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 2):
The last landing is very very very low. He's lucky he didnt take the roof off of a car

Or some guy's wig... man that's close..! Have to see SXM before some authority puts a stop to this..!

Kevin777  Smile
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting EGBJ (Reply 1):
Are there any plans for SXM to get an ILS installed?

There's really no point as visibility is pretty much always good.


Having been there I will say there is some degree of optical illusion in play. The road and especially the beach are on a slight downslope compared to the runway. so it's not quite as bad as it seems in a video. Also, aircraft never touch down on the very end of the runway. Pretty sure SXM has a displaced threshold anyway.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Kevin777
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:44 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
Also, aircraft never touch down on the very end of the runway. Pretty sure SXM has a displaced threshold anyway.

Actually, SXM hasn't got a displaced threshold... There's a picture here on a.net of a KLM 747 touching down on the yellow markers (don't know what it's called, safety zone or whatever), R I G H T behind the fence, and e few meters before the threshold, which is at the very end of the runway...

Kevin777  Smile
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
bloodyrascal
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:55 pm

As i say you must be really skilled at SXM
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:48 pm

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 11):
As i say you must be really skilled at SXM

Well, not that difficult. The biggest difficulties are:
- Water creating an optical illusion, making you go too low.
- Mountains at the other end requiring a turn if you go around.

It's not even comparable to a place like Kai Tak.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
FlySSC
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:57 pm

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 10):
There's a picture here on a.net of a KLM 747 touching down on the yellow markers

here they are ...


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chris Starnes



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © James Rowson


[Edited 2007-08-15 17:02:11]
 
APFPilot1985
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 10):
There's a picture here on a.net of a KLM 747 touching down on the yellow markers (don't know what it's called, safety zone or whatever),

Those sure look like displaced threshold markers to me.
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
nycaviator
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:22 am

Can't wait to go to SXM soon. Amazing place to do some spotting, take pictures, and enjoy the beach!

The third landing was really close. Can you imagine being in the red car? I can only imagine what would have been going through their minds.
Flying is like having eyes on the top of the world.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 14):
Those sure look like displaced threshold markers to me.

Nope... Displaced threshold markings are white, indicating pavement intended/usable for takeoff or rollout. The yellow chevrons indicate a blastpad/stopway, which is NOT considered a useable part of the runway.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
797
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:34 am

...Another reason for me to go visit SXM...

I have this strange feeling that some day a fool is going to come with 'safety B.S.' and take away the place us A.netters consider to be the Vatican...

Must go a.s.a.p.

Cheers.
Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
 
iaddca
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:34 am

how high is the fence?
 
FlySSC
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:53 am

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 14):
Those sure look like displaced threshold markers to me.

 no 

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 16):
Nope... Displaced threshold markings are white, indicating pavement intended/usable for takeoff or rollout. The yellow chevrons indicate a blastpad/stopway, which is NOT considered a useable part of the runway.

 checkmark 

This is a displaced threshold :

 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:02 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 19):
This is a displaced threshold :

I stand corrected, according to the AIM the chevrons indicate pavement areas aligned with runway that are unusable for landing taxiing and takeoff.
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
spacecadet
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:12 am

Ted: We're gonna have to come in pretty low on this approach.
Elaine: Is that difficult?
Ted: Well sure it's difficult. It's part of every textbook approach. It's just something you have to do ... when you land.

- Airplane II
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phxplanes
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:17 am

Do you think pilots purposely fly a little lower then normal going in there, they know everyone is watching and might want to give a little show. If I ever got to fly in there I think I would fly a little low, of course still being safe.
 
Dakota
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:21 am

Does anyone know when this was filmed? It does not seem very recent: it looks like the AF 747 is a -200 series and the KLM 747's have the old color scheme. KLM did stop using 747's since april if I am correct.
 
Boeing747_600
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:28 am

Quoting 797 (Reply 17):
a fool is going to come with 'safety B.S.'

While we'd all miss the spectacular low approaches, I wouldnt be quite as cavalier about the VERY genuine safety issues involved. We've been extremely fortunate that there hasnt been a major disaster at that airport - its a testimony to the flight crew of all carriers operating at SXM for decades now.
 
LH450
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:34 am

Oooh wow, thats really dangerous!!! I'd love to stand at this beach one day!  Smile

Thanks for sharing!
Cheers
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tjc2
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:38 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 13):
Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 10):
There's a picture here on a.net of a KLM 747 touching down on the yellow markers

here they are ...

Are you sure those two planes aren't taking off? Big grin


Alot of people on this forum have always said it how cool it would be to go to SXM and spot some heavie's at an armslength... What I was wondering however, was what it is like to looking out the window whilst on finals for SXM....

nothing, nothing, nothing...ok are we ditching? ah there's the runway....

Brings back memories of my first landing at HKG, (at Chek Lap Kok though) which was similar to above. Except I could see Lantau and I knew the geography around the Airport and so what to expect.
The only time I made a mistake was when I thought I was wrong...
 
AllegiantAir
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:43 am

Here's another really low land at SXM.


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Rotate

Live to Fly.
 
luisca
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:52 am

Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 24):
We've been extremely fortunate that there hasnt been a major disaster at that airport - its a testimony to the flight crew of all carriers operating at SXM for decades now.

I honestly dont see anything particularly dangerous about the approach, the road should be closed, but other than that a runway is a runway is a runway.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
757Driver
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:30 pm

RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:59 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 28):
Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 24):
We've been extremely fortunate that there hasnt been a major disaster at that airport - its a testimony to the flight crew of all carriers operating at SXM for decades now.

I honestly dont see anything particularly dangerous about the approach, the road should be closed, but other than that a runway is a runway is a runway.

I take it you don't have a problem with the specific approach...not this particular approach by the KLM 747. If this were in the US, that pilot would be violated. Especially with photographic and video proof. This pilot clearly laded on a portion of the runway not usable for landing.

As for SXM, I love the airport and the beach. I certainly hope non of the local officials close the beach. I went there for the day a couple years ago and it is LOADS of fun to sit and watch the airplane go by. For all of you that are thinking about going down there, I highly recommend it. You won't be disappointed!

Fly Safe!
 
Jerald01
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:27 am

I've not been to SXM, but IIRC Maho Beach was either wiped out by a storm or was closed by the authorities some time in the last couple of months, wasn't it?

Also, wouldn't it be a lot better (safety-wise) if there was a traffic control light system set up on the roadway along the beach to stop motor vehicle traffic when an aircraft is on short final for the runway? The local controller in the tower would activate the lights to stop traffic when an aircraft is within, say, 3 - 5 miles on landing.
"There may be old pilots, and there may be bold pilots, but there are darn few green cows"
 
scrubbsywg
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:34 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 19):
Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 14):
Those sure look like displaced threshold markers to me.

no

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 16):
Nope... Displaced threshold markings are white, indicating pavement intended/usable for takeoff or rollout. The yellow chevrons indicate a blastpad/stopway, which is NOT considered a useable part of the runway.

checkmark

This is a displaced threshold :


So what is the point of that displaced threshold? If i udnerstand correct with the definitions in this thread, the part with the arrows is usable for runway operations. So why isn't it considered just a regular part of the runway? Do you tend to not use it if you don't need the extra distance? Are you supposed to avoid landing early before the stripes(that's where you are supposed to land right?).
 
MD80Nut
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:35 am

My family vacationed in St. Martin back in 1970 when I was just 14. The runway then was only about 5,250 or so feet long then and I got to lay on the beach with several people while a NorthEast Yellowbird 727-100 leased to ALM landed. It blew sand and jet exhaust all over us and it was one of the more exhilarating experiences I've ever had. The plane looked like it was going to land right on me. The landing gear couldn't have been more that 9 or 10 feet above us. I'd love to relive the experience with a 747, I bet it would be a real blast!

Yeah, I'm nuts!  biggrin 

Cheers, Ralph
Fly Douglas Jets DC-8 / DC-9 / DC-10 / MD80 / MD11 / MD90 / 717
 
Morvious
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting Jerald01 (Reply 30):
Also, wouldn't it be a lot better (safety-wise) if there was a traffic control light system set up on the roadway along the beach to stop motor vehicle traffic when an aircraft is on short final for the runway? The local controller in the tower would activate the lights to stop traffic when an aircraft is within, say, 3 - 5 miles on landing.

Why just don't close that road or dig a tunnel.

Quoting 757Driver (Reply 29):
Especially with photographic and video proof. This pilot clearly laded on a portion of the runway not usable for landing.

Although the images are clear, the video isn't. I agree that the pilot should have gone around with that one, but that is pretty easy saying from this chair  Smile
have a good day,

HereThen
 
ClearedDirect
Posts: 198
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:47 am

Quoting LH450 (Reply 25):
Oooh wow, thats really dangerous!!! I'd love to stand at this beach one day!

In my visit there, myself and two friends actually went to the chain link fence on the airport side of the road and hung on to the fence as a CO 757 blasted down the runway. As they taxied into position the co-pilot gave us a thumbs up.
Once in position on the runway - they held the brakes and applied the thrust - and after what seemed like 5--10 seconds-released the brakes and went down the runway. If I was in better shape (hey round is a shape!) I might have been able to do a superman impression with my feet in the air and my hands holding onto the fence.

There is a sign that discourages this practice, but after watching several others do it - it was too much to resist.

It was an amazing experience. I am grateful there wasnt any FOD blasted in our direction!
 
jrowson
Posts: 332
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:17 am

The 3rd clip from that video and the photos that have been posted above are the same incident. That's the 2nd video i've seen of that landing (the other one was from the other side) and both show just how low it was.

I was up on the roof of a nearby building watching the 747 come in and we knew it was going to be a extreme landing as he was much, much lower on approach than aircraft usually are at that point and i just kept following it with my camera snapping the whole sequence.

I've been accused of faking the photo, but the video clips simply show that it was for real and could have nearly been a disaster if he had hit the fence.

There was a very close inspection the next day of the area of tarmac where the 747 touched down.
James Rowson
 
luisca
Posts: 1530
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:37 am

RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:37 am

Quoting 757Driver (Reply 29):
I take it you don't have a problem with the specific approach...not this particular approach by the KLM 747. If this were in the US, that pilot would be violated. Especially with photographic and video proof. This pilot clearly laded on a portion of the runway not usable for landing.

Sure this was a bad approach, but these things happen, everybody has had a horrible landing (or a few) in their lives. Its not like the pilot did it on purpose, what I do hope he did was report that he had landed on the stop way because that is not full strenght pavement and it needs to be inspected if they landed there.

Quoting Morvious (Reply 33):
Although the images are clear, the video isn't. I agree that the pilot should have gone around with that one, but that is pretty easy saying from this chair

He might have thought he was going to make it, it takes at least 3-4 seconds to get the engines to spool up and the descent to slow down, it might have been too late when the pilot realized, now if he was coming low the entire time then he should have gone around.

At the end of the day it hindsight will always be 20/20, it was a bad landing, but shit happens, as long as he reported that he landed short then everything will be fine, the pilot will get a slap on the wrist and all is well.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting Jerald01 (Reply 30):
Also, wouldn't it be a lot better (safety-wise) if there was a traffic control light system set up on the roadway along the beach to stop motor vehicle traffic when an aircraft is on short final for the runway?

It would just be ignored. There is a sign there now that no one pays attention to.

Quoting Morvious (Reply 33):
Why just don't close that road or dig a tunnel.

It is the only road there is and digging a tunnel is cost prohibitive.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
EGCC777LR
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:16 pm

RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:19 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 13):
Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 10):
There's a picture here on a.net of a KLM 747 touching down on the yellow markers

here they are ...



View Large View Medium

Photo © Chris Starnes




View Large View Medium

Photo © James Rowson


[Edited 2007-08-15 17:02:11]

Good spot my feind, these photos are of the same landing in the film, (The 3rd one) It has been discussed here before, think someone else said it was the KLM pilots last week on duty before retirement. Also the same member from the The Netherlands said he got in trouble for the proximaty the fence, hell of a way to retire though....
 Big grin
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platinumfoota
Posts: 213
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:39 am

RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:20 am

Quoting ClearedDirect (Reply 34):
In my visit there, myself and two friends actually went to the chain link fence on the airport side of the road and hung on to the fence as a CO 757 blasted down the runway. As they taxied into position the co-pilot gave us a thumbs up.
Once in position on the runway - they held the brakes and applied the thrust - and after what seemed like 5--10 seconds-released the brakes and went down the runway. If I was in better shape (hey round is a shape!) I might have been able to do a superman impression with my feet in the air and my hands holding onto the fence.

There is a sign that discourages this practice, but after watching several others do it - it was too much to resist.

That just made my to do list! Big grin
Never forget United 93
 
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LTU932
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:25 am

That's nothing compared to this. Big grin

Big version: Width: 572 Height: 385 File size: 85kb
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wolfpacker
Posts: 343
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:33 am

wow .. those are low landings .. is that beach a nude beach? i really didnt need to see that guys butt
 
PH-TVH
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat May 26, 2001 1:07 am

RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:38 am

Yeah, yeah, we all know its spectacular....

Ugh...
Still waiting till someone breaks the fence with the main wheels...

lol
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 19926
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RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:15 am

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 18):
how high is the fence?

I would guess a bit over two meters. I don't think I could reach the top. But I wasn't really checking closely.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
COA735
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:49 pm

RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:55 am

Quoting PH-TVH (Reply 42):
Ugh...
Still waiting till someone breaks the fence with the main wheels...

Makes me wonder, Has there ever been a incident where a plane (or fence) has been damaged in the history of this airport? Got to be one at least.
 
ebs757
Posts: 620
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:45 pm

RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:18 am

Did I see an AA 767, I didn't know they flew there. Maybe an equipment change?
Viva la Vida
 
mymiles2go
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 4:00 pm

RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:29 pm

Quoting Ebs757 (Reply 45):
Makes me wonder, Has there ever been a incident where a plane (or fence) has been damaged in the history of this airport? Got to be one at least.

Rumor says that one AF pilot did it (removal of fence)...twice, and was subsequently banned from further landings at SXM. Again, island rumor fwiw.
 
10113851
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:10 pm

RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:36 pm

The boys in the KLM (3rd clip) were very low. Would love to see the look on the foqa analysts face, when reviewing that flight!
 
AF777300ER
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:12 pm

RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:44 pm

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 18):

The fence is around 2 meters high. People have to stay attached to the fence just after landing because the blow can push them on the little road just behind them.
Next trip : BOD - AJA - BOD - AMS - AUH - CDG - BOD - WAW - KRK - WAW - BOD - NCE - BOD - MRS - BOD - GVA - BOD - NCE - BOD - ZRH - ATH - JTR - JMK - HER - ATH - FRA - BOD - AMS - SIN - DPS - LOP - DPS - LBJ - DPS - SIN - AMS - BOD
 
EBGflyer
Posts: 637
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:05 pm

RE: SXM Low, Low, Low Landing

Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:57 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 19):
This is a displaced threshold :

Looks like CPH Airport.
Future flights: CPH-BOS; CPH-SVG; CPH-PVG-HKG-MNL-DVO; CPH-CDG; CPH-NRT; CPH-MIA; CPH-PVG

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Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos