Carls
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Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:57 am

This is my first post and I was wondering if Emirates is already decided for the A350XWB instead of the B787 since Boeing is reluctant to announce the launch of the 1000 variant. And they have told many times that the 788/9 are too small for their expansion plans.

[Edited 2007-08-15 22:09:14]
 
dl767captain
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Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:24 am

Maybe, but it seems like Emirates doesn't really like the A350 and is trying to get a better deal on the -10 and get it created. Or they might like both planes and want both, the 787-10 for a 772 replacement and the A350-1000 for a 773 replacement, and are trying to get better deals and make sure they get both of them. The 787-8/9 would work for their A330 replacement, Emirates already knows what they want, them trying to get boeing to make the -10 could mean that is what they really want, or they want boeing to make it so Airbus will give them a better deal on the A350. Personally if Boeing makes the -10 we will see more than just Emirates ordering the plane, and i think boeing needs to move fast.
 
TKV
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Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:47 am

Carls: Welcome !! I do not know if you know about the way to proceed by Tim Clark, EK's CEO, but if somebody wants to reach a conclusion from what he says, this is a task so difficult as to assess the prophecies of Nostradamus:

But of course, you could select between the following "few"  Smile alternatives

He will chose the 100 frames between other from these alternatives or its variants:

-100 A350
- 50 B787-9 + 50 A350-1000
- 50 B787-9 + 50 B787-10
- 20 B748i + 50 B787-9 + 30 A350-1000
- 20 B748i + 50 B787-9 + 30 B787-10
- 20 B777-300ER + 20 B777-200LR + 20 B787-9 + 30 A350-1000 Big grin
And nobody know if the 100 orders will be firm or partially options (instead options it could be easily walk-away orders)

Before I get flame for this please consider this is not serious (or a least not totally so !  Wink

TKV
 
Carls
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Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:57 am

Quoting TKV (Reply 2):
Carls: Welcome !! I do not know if you know about the way to proceed by Tim Clark, EK's CEO, but if somebody wants to reach a conclusion from what he says, this is a task so difficult as to assess the prophecies of Nostradamus:

But of course, you could select between the following "few" alternatives

He will chose the 100 frames between other from these alternatives or its variants:

-100 A350
- 50 B787-9 + 50 A350-1000
- 50 B787-9 + 50 B787-10
- 20 B748i + 50 B787-9 + 30 A350-1000
- 20 B748i + 50 B787-9 + 30 B787-10
- 20 B777-300ER + 20 B777-200LR + 20 B787-9 + 30 A350-1000
And nobody know if the 100 orders will be firm or partially options (instead options it could be easily walk-away orders)

Before I get flame for this please consider this is not serious (or a least not totally so !

TKV

Thank you.

I am familiar with Mr. Clark way. But he has been saying that the A350 looks like a great plane and have been really quiet about B787. And with his last movement with his follow on order on the A380 shows that he is confident in Airbus capabilities.

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 1):
Maybe, but it seems like Emirates doesn't really like the A350 and is trying to get a better deal on the -10 and get it created. Or they might like both planes and want both, the 787-10 for a 772 replacement and the A350-1000 for a 773 replacement, and are trying to get better deals and make sure they get both of them. The 787-8/9 would work for their A330 replacement, Emirates already knows what they want, them trying to get boeing to make the -10 could mean that is what they really want, or they want boeing to make it so Airbus will give them a better deal on the A350. Personally if Boeing makes the -10 we will see more than just Emirates ordering the plane, and i think boeing needs to move fast.

Yes, you have a point.
 
EI321
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Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:19 am

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 1):
Maybe, but it seems like Emirates doesn't really like the A350

Based on ........... ?

For a moment lets ignore CASM figures.

Only one of these aircraft has the long term potential to replace everything that Emirates has in its passenger fleet right now, aswell as all the 777's that they have on order.

Add to that the assumption that Airbus will undercut Boeing on purchase price, and that the A350 will have less fuel burn per passenger and more range.
 
KL808
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:44 am

Opinion wise, I believe that EK will go for the whole A350 series -800 -900 -1000.

One common fleet to replace all its A330, A340, B777 fleet.

The whole B787-10 is for price haggling.

My opinion only.

Drew
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Ken777
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:09 am

Quoting KL808 (Reply 5):
One common fleet to replace all its A330, A340, B777 fleet.

Unless EK had been given sufficient information on Y3 to stir that pot a bit.  Smile
 
dl767captain
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:04 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 4):
Based on ........... ?

For a moment lets ignore CASM figures.

Only one of these aircraft has the long term potential to replace everything that Emirates has in its passenger fleet right now, aswell as all the 777's that they have on order.

If they really thought the A350 was the right plane they would have ordered it already, they wouldn't keep trying to get Boeing to build the -10, personally i see them ordering the 787 and A350, i don't know what models but right now i think they are playing the price game.
 
azhobo
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:29 pm

Personally I think Boeing will get a good portion of the 100 aircraft. EK is not going to risk putting all that outlandish growth in the Airbus basket with all the 380s on order.

HOBO
 
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Stitch
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:48 pm

With EK's growth, they're going to take the 787, the A350, and Y3 over the next two decades.
 
EA772LR
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:49 pm

Quoting Azhobo (Reply 8):
Personally I think Boeing will get a good portion of the 100 aircraft. EK is not going to risk putting all that outlandish growth in the Airbus basket with all the 380s on order.

This is an interesting point. It would seem risky to base your future growth on one manufacturer, no matter which one it is. Why, would EK even be interested in the 350-1000 right now when they have a ton of 77W's on the way and won't have all of them for years. As I do think that EK may fly the 350, I think they will order some 787's and I think they will order the 748I, they've already got the 748F on order. And I can't forget about the 77L's they have on order. They have a $hit load of 777's on the way, why would they be interested in buying 100 '777 replacements' right now??
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
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BlueSky1976
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:19 pm

Right now, EK is playing both Airbus and Boeing to get the price they want. Once they are past that point, they will go with A350-900/-1000, unless Boeing pulls out an 8,500nm 787-10 (something Tim Clark said they want right from the get go).
The queen of the skies is dead.
 
Leskova
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:05 pm

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 10):
They have a $hit load of 777's on the way, why would they be interested in buying 100 '777 replacements' right now??

They do - but at some point, they'll want to replace them: they don't seem to be interested in anything that's much smaller than a B777-200 or even -300 these days, so the B787 with anything below the -10 seems to be a bit on the smallish side for them, just as it seems to be for LH.

I would not, however, be surprised to see them ordering the B748i - would fit pretty much within the arguement of them not being interested in "small" planes.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
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Stitch
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:23 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 12):
they don't seem to be interested in anything that's much smaller than a B777-200 or even -300 these days, so the B787 with anything below the -10 seems to be a bit on the smallish side for them, just as it seems to be for LH.

Well they do have a shedload of A332s, so the 787-8/787-9 would be an option for them, as would the A350-800, unless they just want their fleet to start at ~300 seats which would mean replace them with a 777-sized plane like the 787-10/A350-900.
 
legoguy
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:32 pm

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 7):
If they really thought the A350 was the right plane they would have ordered it already,

If you want to go that route, why are AA and Delta waiting on ordering the 787? Perhaps they do not want them as they have not ordered any.
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
boeing767-300
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:55 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 4):
Add to that the assumption that Airbus will undercut Boeing on purchase price

...........maybe  scratchchin 

Quoting EI321 (Reply 4):
and that the A350 will have less fuel burn per passenger and more range.

....what...you mean like the A346 promised to do to the 77W?????. EK never took their over promising under delivering A346s and have at least 59 77W on order that won't need replacing anytime soon.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 6):
Unless EK had been given sufficient information on Y3 to stir that pot a bit.

Y3...talk of Y3 could be very damaging to A3510. The replacements for the 77W could well overlook A350-1000 for a superior Y3!!!!!
 
EI321
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:02 pm

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 15):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 4):
and that the A350 will have less fuel burn per passenger and more range.

....what...you mean like the A346 promised to do to the 77W?????.

   It never promised that. It never even suggested at it.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 15):
EK never took their over promising under delivering A346s

   Can you demonstrate how the A340's that EK canceled would have been ''over promising, and under delivering'' ?

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 15):
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 6):
Unless EK had been given sufficient information on Y3 to stir that pot a bit.

Y3...talk of Y3 could be very damaging to A3510.

Talk is Talk is Talk. The only place I've ever seen Y3 discussed is on a.net. Can you name a single instance of any airline refering to or mentioning to Y3, ever?

[Edited 2007-08-16 15:07:43]
 
Carls
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:20 pm

I am astonish because I just realise how bad company Airbus is. If some one like me, who is just an AC fan, read all these post will realise that Airbus is a fake company, but then one will be confuse because if Airbus never deliver what has promised, how come it is the biggest AC builder on earth? How come Airbus is head to head with Boeing this year in firm orders and it is almost 100% more than Boeing in MOU. Can someone explain to me all these facts?   

[Edited 2007-08-16 16:22:31]
 
EA772LR
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:37 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 16):
Talk is Talk is Talk. The only place I've ever seen Y3 discussed is on a.net. Can you name a single instance of any airline refering to or mentioning to Y3, ever?

Not just on a.net my friend  Wink

"Yellowstone is a Boeing Commercial Airplanes project to replace its entire civil aircraft portfolio with advanced technology aircraft. New technologies to be introduced include composite aerostructures, more electrical systems (reduction of hydraulic systems), and more fuel-efficient turbofan engines (such as the GEnx, the CFM International LEAP56 and the Trent 1000). The term "Yellowstone" refers to the technologies, while "Y1" through "Y3" refer to the actual aircraft.

Yellowstone is divided into three projects:

* Boeing Y1, to replace the Boeing 717, Boeing 737 and the Boeing 757 product line. Y1 covers the 100 to 200-passenger market, and is expected to be the second Yellowstone Project aircraft to be developed. It will compete with the Airbus A320 family.
* Boeing Y2, to replace the Boeing 757 and Boeing 767 product lines. It may also replace the 777-200. Y2, which initially referred to the Sonic Cruiser, has now been built as the 787 and covers the 220 to 320-passenger market. It will compete with the Airbus A330 A340 and later A350 families.
* Boeing Y3, to replace the 777-300 and 747 product lines. Y3 covers the 320+ passenger market, and is expected to be the third Yellowstone Project aircraft to be developed. It will compete with the Airbus A380 family as well as the largest model of the A350 family, the A350-1000 which will be introduced in 2015."

But you're right El321. Y3 is extremely 'fuzzy' at this point in time.
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:55 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 16):
Talk is Talk is Talk. The only place I've ever seen Y3 discussed is on a.net. Can you name a single instance of any airline referring to or mentioning to Y3, ever?

To be fair, the concept of a nine-abreast twin-engined Airbus jet seating between 300-375 people in three classes flying 8000nm+ was never discussed outside of airliners.net until Farnborough last year...

Just because Boeing hasn't publicly announced the program doesn't mean they're not giving any thought to it privately...
 
haan
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:39 am

Here's my 2c's worth

Emirates will anounce yet another huge aircraft order at this years Dubai airshow in November.
They will order 50+ A350XWB's. Emirates needs to replace their aging A330's and B777-200 A and B models.
So they will lease a couple of A330-300's to replace the older aircraft and once the A350XWB's arrive give back the A333's. Dont be to suprised if they order a couple of B747-800I's and B787's as well.

[Edited 2007-08-16 18:40:02]
 
deltadc9
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:50 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 14):
why are AA and Delta waiting on ordering the 787? Perhaps they do not want them as they have not ordered any.

Because they have their bond ratings and stock price to worry about.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 16):
Talk is Talk is Talk. The only place I've ever seen Y3 discussed is on a.net. Can you name a single instance of any airline refering to or mentioning to Y3, ever?

Airlines are only interested in what is offered or what is next to be offered. Y3 is one step beyond that. Boeing has said many times the market will dictate the dividing line between Y2 (787) and Y3 and the timing. This is IMHO why Boeing is hesitent to go with a -10 or -11 model because this is getting into that grey area between the two projects. While originally the 773 was the low end for Y3, I beleive that there will not be enough demand to justify Y3 unless they go down to the 772 size, which puts the -10 on the fence.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
boeing767-300
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:46 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 16):
Can you demonstrate how the A340's that EK canceled would have been ''over promising, and under delivering'' ?

I think you have answered your own question. The fact that EK went to great lengths never to take A346 says it all. The fact that EK has gone on to order numerous 'more' batches of 77W only reiterates my point.

It you can think of a modern airliner dumped from grace so quickly then what is it. The 77W has killed the A346 and relatively soon after launch.

This is not to flame but the fact remains the A346 under delivered and the 77W exceeded expectations and to put it in layman terms you know what happens on Sunday in the Masters at Augusta when the leader drops two shots and the the pack picks up two shots.. there is a change at the top. There is no doubt the A346 under delivered especially in the range and SFC stakes and the market has confirmed that.
 
dl767captain
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:51 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 14):
If you want to go that route, why are AA and Delta waiting on ordering the 787? Perhaps they do not want them as they have not ordered any.

Well DL just got out of a bankruptcy and both carriers might not have the money, not to mention the delivery slots are set out pretty far already so they could be in talks with boeing and leasing companies, plus DL and AA are all boeing including the gentlemen's agreement that Boeing can't enforce but DL and AA are certainly committed, They obviously want the plane because it is the perfect replacement for their 767's but they have time because delivery slots in 2008 and 2009 aren't just appearing.
 
dank
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:05 am

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 22):
This is not to flame but the fact remains the A346 under delivered and the 77W exceeded expectations and to put it in layman terms you know what happens on Sunday in the Masters at Augusta when the leader drops two shots and the the pack picks up two shots.. there is a change at the top. There is no doubt the A346 under delivered especially in the range and SFC stakes and the market has confirmed that.

No, the 346 delivers what it was supposed to (other than the first few overweight frames). But those specs aren't as good as the 773ER (other than the fact that it was available when the 773ER wasn't, which is a moot point now). The rising cost of oil made the efficiency bonus that the 773ER had more than outweigh the higher purchase price which is why we see the dominance of the 773ER. If they hadn't hit the specs they promised, then it would have been a different story, and it would be concern that they can't deliver what they promise.

cheers.
 
Carls
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 23):
Well DL just got out of a bankruptcy and both carriers might not have the money, not to mention the delivery slots are set out pretty far already so they could be in talks with boeing and leasing companies, plus DL and AA are all boeing including the gentlemen's agreement that Boeing can't enforce but DL and AA are certainly committed, They obviously want the plane because it is the perfect replacement for their 767's but they have time because delivery slots in 2008 and 2009 aren't just appearing.

I was wondering, if there is a "Gentleman Agreement" how AA got their Airbus A300?.
I am new here in A.Net, so please be nice.
Thank you.
 
Lumberton
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 10):
It would seem risky to base your future growth on one manufacturer, no matter which one it is.

I would usually agree with you on this, but Dubai took a 3.1% investment stake in EADS. Dubai=Emirates. They will go with the A350 IMVHO. This only makes good business sense.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting TKV (Reply 2):
- 20 B748i + 50 B787-9 + 30 B787-10

 bigthumbsup 

Quoting EI321 (Reply 4):
Add to that the assumption that Airbus will undercut Boeing on purchase price, and that the A350 will have less fuel burn per passenger and more range.

What makes you think Airbus can afford to undercut Boeing? Remember, Airbus is in a big financial hole because of the A-380 and A-400M screw ups, plus the A-350 screw ups (versions Mk. I-VI). The B-787 is kicking Airbus's but, financially, too.

How do you know the A-350 will burn less fuel and have more range? Wasn't the A-340-500 and A-340-600 suppose to do that?  scratchchin 
 
EI321
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:24 am

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 22):
[If] you can think of a modern airliner dumped from grace so quickly then what is it.

Sure, the 767-400ER. The orders had stopped coming in before it even flew. Even in 2007 the A340 is getting some orders, and it was launched before the 767-400.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 22):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 16):
Can you demonstrate how the A340's that EK canceled would have been ''over promising, and under delivering'' ?

I think you have answered your own question.

Sorry, but you got caught with your pants down on that one, and now your just trying to wriggle out of it. I'll just set the record straight - airbus never promised that the A340-5/6 would have lower fuel burn than the 777-L/W, as you claim. Fictitious claims like this say more about you than they do about the aircraft. Neither did they ''over promise and under deliver''. Those x10 A340-600HGW's's that Emirates ordered in 2003 at the same time as the x26 777-300ER order would have had the fuel burn that airbus said they when they were ordered in. Emirates made a sensible economic decision in the face of a rise in fuel prices which topped the economics in favour of their already large 777-300 fleet.

Quote:
The decision to order both the 777-300ER and rival A340-600 is a surprise, but reflects the heavily discounted competing deals put on Emirates' table by Boeing and Airbus, as well leasing companies General Electric Capital Aviation Services and International Lease Finance, both of which are expected to share in the deal.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...tes-plans-paris-shopping-trip.html

[Edited 2007-08-16 21:41:08]
 
TKV
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 26):
I would usually agree with you on this, but Dubai took a 3.1% investment stake in EADS. Dubai=Emirates. They will go with the A350 IMVHO. This only makes good business sense.

As already noted in past posts, the Dubai investment in EADS (~ $ 750) are (very fat ones, but) peanuts regarding the value of 100 A350 or B787. could be $ 10 B.

So, price, timing, CASM and completion risk disadvantage of the A350 Could be more important than their whole investment !!
The Dubai Investment manager had said so repeatedly: their policy is buying undervalued stock with
no risk of bankruptcy as EADS, as such stock long term will recuperate, independently of individual orders.

I would say: if the A350 after evaluating all factors is very slightly more costly (timing and completion risk evaluated) as the B787, it would be good business sense to buy it, except that to put all the eggs in one still not ready basket is certainly not so.

If the difference is important, the Dubai investment would be irrelevant.

TKV
 
gbfra
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:43 am

Quoting Carls (Reply 17):
I am astonish because I just realise how bad company Airbus is. If some one like me, who is just an AC fan, read all these post will realise that Airbus is a fake company, but then one will be confuse because if Airbus never deliver what has promised, how come it is the biggest AC builder on earth? How come Airbus is head to head with Boeing this year in firm orders and it is almost 100% more than Boeing in MOU. Can someone explain to me all these facts?

That's easy to explain:

1. Airlines ordering Airbus are run by a bunch of fools who do not understanding anything about their business and, given their stupidity, refuse to take precious advice from all these armchair-CEOs on a.net., who, of course, understand everything about the business.

2. Airbus gives away airplanes for free.

3. Airbus orders are heavily influenced by political considerations, because otherwise nobody would buy them, except for .. see point 1 and 2..

4. Airbus constantly tricks them all by promising everything, which is easy, because ...see point 1.

5. Airbus receives orders from unreliable airlines which will soon disappear because their business model is out of the world. See EK for example, but unfortunately, Clark et al. are so stupid to not listen to the precious strategic reasoning delivered by some of a.net's most distinguished armchair-CEOs, of whom one or two might even confuse Dubai with Dubya.

Now, seriously:
Look at the national flag of most Airbus-bashers. This explains almost everything.
The fundamental things apply as time goes by
 
EI321
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 27):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 4):
Add to that the assumption that Airbus will undercut Boeing on purchase price, and that the A350 will have less fuel burn per passenger and more range.

What makes you think Airbus can afford to undercut Boeing?

I dont, I was telling that anti Airbus squad what they want to hear. Excuses are needed on a.net whenever airbus lands a big deal  Wink

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 27):
How do you know the A-350 will burn less fuel and have more range?

Lets see.

Lower OEW per seat + Lower SFC per engine + Higher composite content + Larger wings

= Higher Fuel Burn and Less range?

Please.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 27):
Wasn't the A-340-500 and A-340-600 suppose to do that?

Over the 777? NO
 
Carls
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RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:03 am

Quoting Gbfra (Reply 30):
That's easy to explain:

1. Airlines ordering Airbus are run by a bunch of fools who do not understanding anything about their business and, given their stupidity, refuse to take precious advice from all these armchair-CEOs on a.net., who, of course, understand everything about the business.

2. Airbus gives away airplanes for free.

3. Airbus orders are heavily influenced by political considerations, because otherwise nobody would buy them, except for .. see point 1 and 2..

4. Airbus constantly tricks them all by promising everything, which is easy, because ...see point 1.

5. Airbus receives orders from unreliable airlines which will soon disappear because their business model is out of the world. See EK for example, but unfortunately, Clark et al. are so stupid to not listen to the precious strategic reasoning delivered by some of a.net's most distinguished armchair-CEOs, of whom one or two might even confuse Dubai with Dubya.

Now, seriously:
Look at the national flag of most Airbus-bashers. This explains almost everything.

That explain everything.

Any way, I like Airbus better than Boeing, and is only because I use to find the Americans AC as reliables as Chevy and Ford cars are, based in my experience, every time I have booked a flight with AA with their 737 or 757, the flight have been delayed because something happens to the AC, and this is almost a rule.
 
EA772LR
Posts: 1285
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 am

RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:20 am

Quoting Carls (Reply 32):
Any way, I like Airbus better than Boeing, and is only because I use to find the Americans AC as reliables as Chevy and Ford cars are, based in my experience, every time I have booked a flight with AA with their 737 or 757, the flight have been delayed because something happens to the AC, and this is almost a rule.

No offense, but that is a very ignorant statement. Look at AA with their A300 fleet. But let's not even point the finger at the plane manufacturer, how about the airlines maintenance programs....??

Quoting EI321 (Reply 31):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 27):
How do you know the A-350 will burn less fuel and have more range?

Lets see.

Lower OEW per seat + Lower SFC per engine + Higher composite content + Larger wings

= Higher Fuel Burn and Less range?

Please.

All true, and also all assuming that Boeing will stand still with the 787 and make NO improvements to the 787. Boeing will not become complacent again with the 787 in regards to the 350XWB.
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2811
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:20 am

Quoting Carls (Reply 32):
every time I have booked a flight with AA with their 737 or 757, the flight have been delayed because something happens to the AC, and this is almost a rule.

And this has something to do with Boeing how?  Yeah sure

Ya think maybe you need to look to the AIRLINE?
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
dl767captain
Posts: 1206
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:51 am

RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting Carls (Reply 25):
was wondering, if there is a "Gentleman Agreement" how AA got their Airbus A300?.
I am new here in A.Net, so please be nice.

i think that was before the agreement, but i could be wrong
 
astuteman
Posts: 7076
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:00 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 27):
How do you know the A-350 will burn less fuel and have more range? Wasn't the A-340-500 and A-340-600 suppose to do that?

Sorry, I believe this to be a substantial misrepresentation.

Where was it EVER specified that the A345/6 would burn less fuel, and have more range than the 773ER/2LR?

Where is the evidence that the A345/6 aren't delivering what they said they would (apart from the first few frames perhaps)?
The only published information I've ever seen from the user airlines indicates they pretty much do what they said on the tin.
That the 773ER/2LR ultimately exceeded this capability is not debated, but IS a different argument, and is in no way relevant to the A350 specifications.

(Just my  twocents .  Smile )

Regards
 
EI321
Posts: 5029
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:16 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 36):
The only published information I've ever seen from the user airlines indicates they pretty much do what they said on the tin.

They would not recieve orders if they did not, and we would be hearing about compensation payments left right and centre.
 
legoguy
Posts: 2981
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:59 pm

RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 21):
Because they have their bond ratings and stock price to worry about.



Quoting DL767captain (Reply 23):

How about BA? What suitation are they currently in with regards to not ordering the 787 yet?
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
Carls
Topic Author
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:22 am

RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:25 am

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 33):
No offense, but that is a very ignorant statement. Look at AA with their A300 fleet. But let's not even point the finger at the plane manufacturer, how about the airlines maintenance programs....??
I am not offended, you can't offend me. So applying your "thoughts" we should think twice before fly in AA because their maintenance could be poor. Do you have any proof of that or it is only your guess. I use to fly from MIA to South America and I can tell you that I have bad experience when the AC is a B757 always something happens and the flight get delayed.

[Edited 2007-08-17 00:30:36]
 
dl767captain
Posts: 1206
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:51 am

RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:33 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 38):
How about BA? What suitation are they currently in with regards to not ordering the 787 yet?

i believe their fleet renewal announcement is sometime in september (correct me if I am wrong), it seems to me that the 787-3 would be a good 767 replacement for them but it is not approved in Europe, it could become approved if a carrier wanted it though, i believe that they are waiting because there is no need to rush, its not like they will be getting the plane in a year or two anyways. I think BA will look closely at the A350 and the 787 and i think both will be ordered, the A350 will make a great 777 replacement, but Boeing could still come up with their own 777 replacement before the A350 enters service. I think BA will order the 748 and a few A380's and a 787 order will most likely follow, then they will decide on the A350. Maybe BA is waiting for the -10 model, who knows
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:43 am

Quoting Carls (Reply 32):
I have booked a flight with AA with their 737 or 757, the flight have been delayed because something happens to the AC, and this is almost a rule.

....hmmmm...I fly AA at least 50k-60k miles/year for basically the past 1/2 decade (which means lots of flights) and I can't recall that happening.... scratchchin .....

Lets see....I read AA's flyertalk section and there are folks there who have flown millions of miles with AA, and don't here this complaint either... scratchchin  scratchchin ....
"Up the Irons!"
 
EA772LR
Posts: 1285
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 am

RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:49 am

Quoting Carls (Reply 39):
I am not offended, you can't offend me. So applying your "thoughts" we should think twice before fly in AA because their maintenance could be poor. Do you have any proof of that or it is only your guess.

No I'm just saying, that you can't necessarily point the finger at Boeing or Airbus for an aircraft having issues, unless that type of aircraft has similar issues with several other operators. We have to be sure and know how the actual airline is maintaining its aircraft.
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
azhobo
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:52 pm

RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:24 am

Quoting Gbfra (Reply 30):
1. Airlines ordering Airbus are run by a bunch of fools who do not understanding anything about their business and, given their stupidity, refuse to take precious advice from all these armchair-CEOs on a.net., who, of course, understand everything about the business.

2. Airbus gives away airplanes for free.

3. Airbus orders are heavily influenced by political considerations, because otherwise nobody would buy them, except for .. see point 1 and 2..

4. Airbus constantly tricks them all by promising everything, which is easy, because ...see point 1.

5. Airbus receives orders from unreliable airlines which will soon disappear because their business model is out of the world. See EK for example, but unfortunately, Clark et al. are so stupid to not listen to the precious strategic reasoning delivered by some of a.net's most distinguished armchair-CEOs, of whom one or two might even confuse Dubai with Dubya.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting EI321 (Reply 37):
They would not recieve orders if they did not, and we would be hearing about compensation payments left right and centre.

We have not heard details of compensation payments for the late A380s or the early ordered A350s. Seen speculation on ANET but nothing concrete in the media. So why would we see these on the A345/6 if ones were ever made.

HOBO
 
FlyingAY
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:26 pm

RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:28 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 41):
I fly AA at least 50k-60k miles/year for basically the past 1/2 decade (which means lots of flights) and I can't recall that happening.

You fly that much and never had a flight delayed because of technical reasons? I've been flying about the same for past 2 years and have experienced delayes because of technical reasons (on MD and B planes, but those could have been an A plane as well).

However, that was not the topic of this thread, so let's get back to business.

I can see Emirates both splitting the order between Airbus and Boeing in order to get enough planes fast enough for their planned expansion. Also an all-Airbus order a'la QR would not surprise me. Heck, even a 748i order would not be that surprising...

What comes to putting all your eggs in the same basket, I don't see that as a big problem. After all, CO, DL and AA (despite of having the A300s - nobody expects more A orders from them anywhere soon) are doing that quite happily when it comes to longhaul fleet, and I don't see a problem there either.
 
Carls
Topic Author
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:22 am

RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:24 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 41):
....hmmmm...I fly AA at least 50k-60k miles/year for basically the past 1/2 decade (which means lots of flights) and I can't recall that happening.... .....

Lets see....I read AA's flyertalk section and there are folks there who have flown millions of miles with AA, and don't here this complaint either... ....

Ok. that means AA works perfect. Must be that someone in AA is looking for my reservations and then some how they make that AC to be delayed. Please.
I do not need to create an statement, it's well know how bad AA service is, not only onboard but in all the other areas. So you can check AC record specially those that are flying to MAR, CCS, BOG and you will see that your sources are not that accurate.
Thank you.
 
Carls
Topic Author
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:22 am

RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:29 pm

Quoting FlyingAY (Reply 44):
What comes to putting all your eggs in the same basket, I don't see that as a big problem. After all, CO, DL and AA

Seems that what really matter here in A.Net is to put all the eggs in a Airbus fleet, instead if were all Boeing fleet then everything runs perfect. It is amazing how Big the anti Airbus feeling is here in A.Net.
 
EI321
Posts: 5029
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:32 pm

Quoting Azhobo (Reply 43):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 37):
They would not receive orders if they did not, and we would be hearing about compensation payments left right and centre.

We have not heard details of compensation payments for the late A380s or the early ordered A350s. Seen speculation on ANET but nothing concrete in the media. So why would we see these on the A345/6 if ones were ever made.

We have seen details of compo payments for the initial A350 customers. Airbus has put aside a figure (approx $500m) for this purpose, and these customers will receive the larger, more expensive XWB at the same price. Airbus have publicly stated this. We also know about compo payments to the early A380 customers. Again, airbus has publicly stated that they will be compensated. In both cases, the A380 and A350, the compensation is related to EIS delays, not performance issues. There is no grounds for compensation on performance grounds in either case. As for the A340-5/6, if compensation was payed, we would know about it. The reason we have not seen details of compensation on the A340-5/6 is because there was not any. The aircraft are performing as airbus said they would. Sorry to break the bad news. But hey, dont let facts stop you making up malicious rumors  Yeah sure
 
tdscanuck
Posts: 8572
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:59 pm

Quoting Gbfra (Reply 30):
Look at the national flag of most Airbus-bashers. This explains almost everything.

You do realize that this theory works for Boeing bashers too, right?

Quoting EI321 (Reply 31):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 27):
How do you know the A-350 will burn less fuel and have more range?

Lets see.

Lower OEW per seat + Lower SFC per engine + Higher composite content + Larger wings

Where did you get lower OEW per seat? The OEW for the A350 isn't known yet and the per-seat weight for every single Airbus is higher than the equivalent Boeing.

Tom.
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2811
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Is Emirate Already Decided For The A350 XWB?

Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:24 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 38):
What suitation are they currently in with regards to not ordering the 787 yet?

From what I understand, BA is very good at fleet planning and buy what and when they need to buy. When and if they need it they wil buy it. I know their 767s are starting to age, but they are not in a bind like the American majors.

American majors are simply under severe financial constraints and have perception issues with Wall Street that affect their actions, and at the same time need more modern efficient planes pretty badly. Catch 22.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny

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