EasyJet B737NG Retirement

virtual · Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:45 am

Does anybody know easyJet's schedule for phasing out it's 737NGs?

AirframeAS · Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:51 am

I don't, but when they do, will WN snag some of the 73G's?

aidoair · Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:02 am

Last i heard was that they will all have left the fleet by 2010.

Aidoair Smile

dl767captain · Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:37 am

What are they being replaced with? more 737's?

richm · Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:40 am

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 3):
What are they being replaced with? more 737's?

No. I believe that they will intend to keep an all-Airbus fleet once the 737's have been phased out. Shame really. I much prefer the 737NG's. Sad

AirframeAS · Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:07 pm

Quoting RichM (Reply 4):
...I believe that they will intend to keep an all-Airbus fleet...

I never understood this, but this is the main reason why.

PM · Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:11 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 5):
I never understood this

I thought it was quite simple. It's more efficient to operate a single type than to operate two competing types.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 5):
this is the main reason why

I'd have thought it was the only reason why.

dl767captain · Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:11 pm

i din't even know they had airbus in their fleet, what models, and why are they changing fleet types

AirframeAS · Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:23 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 6):

The thing I never understood was that easyJet started out with all 737's. Then all the sudden they decided to go all-Airbus.

WestJetYQQ · Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:03 pm

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 7):
i din't even know they had airbus in their fleet, what models, and why are they changing fleet types

I believe all the other aircraft they have are A319s.

It really is a shame. I loved the 737 in the easyJet livery....... Sad

EGCC777LR · Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:16 pm

Hi Everyone,

I'm pretty certain I watched a documentary here on EasyJet that suggested the main reason for A319 over 737NG was the fact that the 319 capicity allowed for a 2 Cabin crew service and the 737 needed 3, I will stand corrected if these numbers aren't correct but I seem to recall the 319 seating 149 and the 737 being a little over 150, and below 150, regulations allow for 2 cabin crew Smile

Asiaflyer · Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:20 pm

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 7):
i din't even know they had airbus in their fleet, what models, and why are they changing fleet types

I suppose you are joking my friend. You can possibly not have missed that on this forum.
Easyjet has ordered a total of 227 Airbuses, with 107 of them delivered so far.
All of them are A319s. That makes them by far the largest A319 customer in the world.
What surprises me alittle is the fact that they dont have any A320s for the more popular routes, but apparently fleet commonality is top priority.

trintocan · Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:29 pm

U2's A319s are configured in a dense seating arrangement which in fact enables each A319 to carry as many passengers as an A320 would in a multi-class configuration - and this is the reason the U2 A319s have 2 overwing exits, instead of the 1 typical of the type. This may explain why they do not fly A320s. Their operations which are based on frequent rotations between city pairs also enable the smaller A319 to be suited to purpose. As for why they are changing from a new fleet of 73G's so soon, it is all about business! Planes are business assets and can be moved around at will as long as maximum profits are derived therefrom. Sentiment does not enter the picture.

TrinToCan.

christopherwoo · Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:29 pm

Quoting EGCC777LR (Reply 14):
Hi Everyone,

I'm pretty certain I watched a documentary here on EasyJet that suggested the main reason for A319 over 737NG was the fact that the 319 capicity allowed for a 2 Cabin crew service and the 737 needed 3, I will stand corrected if these numbers aren't correct but I seem to recall the 319 seating 149 and the 737 being a little over 150, and below 150, regulations allow for 2 cabin crew

No you're wrong. Its the other way around. The boeing 737-700 has 149 seats allowing for a minimum of 3 cabin crew. The Airbus 319 has 156 seats which require a minimum of 4 cabincrew. May sound stupid, but for the amount of money easyJet gets through on-board sales, its worth having the extra cabincrew member. Plus with the 319 you get the extra 7 seats.

columba · Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:53 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 6):
I thought it was quite simple. It's more efficient to operate a single type than to operate two competing types.

Tell that Air Berlin which flies F100, 737-300s, -700s,-800s, A319s, A320s and soon 787s

djmatthews · Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:55 pm

Am I right in thinking that it's only Luton that is a 737 base, all other bases are A319s?

Many Thanks

BMED · Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:02 pm

Quoting EGCC777LR (Reply 14):
319 capicity allowed for a 2 Cabin crew service

The A319 has 4 cabin crew

Quoting Christopherwoo (Reply 19):
Plus with the 319 you get the extra 7 seats.

I think I have read somewhere that they are taking these seats out now or something about not selling them.

aidoair · Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:04 pm

Quoting Djmatthews (Reply 21):
Am I right in thinking that it's only Luton that is a 737 base, all other bases are A319s?

Many Thanks

As well as Belfast and Newcastle although i have heard that they are planning on Newcaslte to be the next base to change to A319s.

Aidoair Smile

jenkingeorge · Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:15 pm

Boeing bases - LTN, NCL, BFS

Airbus bases - LGW, STN, EDI, GLA, LPL, ORY, DTM, SXF, MXP, MAD, GVA (Swiss AOC), BSL (Swiss AOC)

I think this is correct, and it is A319's replacing all their B737's.

-JG

christopherwoo · Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:18 pm

Quoting BMED (Reply 22):
I think I have read somewhere that they are taking these seats out now or something about not selling them.

Nah i doubt that will happen. Too many short flights where the cabincrew are pushed to even get a round of drinks through. it costs easyjet roughly 10 pounds a flight per cabincrew. If that cabincrew member sells say, 10 cups of coffee they have made a profit!

F27Friendship · Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:31 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 12):
(JetBlue got buy one get one free, apparently, though it's not something I can provide a link to, so keep your trousers on)

Ryanair also get a phat discount.

They get their 737's at least for a 50% discount

Scorpio · Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:37 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 12):
JetBlue got buy one get one free, apparently

Funny, because in another thread, someone mentioned B6 paid $32 to $35 million per plane, hardly a 'buy one, get one free' deal...

viscount630 · Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:56 pm

Quoting Jenkingeorge (Reply 24):
Airbus bases - LGW, STN, EDI, GLA, LPL, ORY, DTM, SXF, MXP, MAD, GVA (Swiss AOC), BSL (Swiss AOC)

And BRS ??

dutchjet · Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:22 pm

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 27):

Funny, because in another thread, someone mentioned B6 paid $32 to $35 million per plane, hardly a 'buy one, get one free' deal...

If Airbus gives airplanes away for free.....why wont they send one to me?

JetBlue got a very good deal on the A320s, if you do the math, it was about a 40% discount off of list price which was exceptional for a THEN unproven newly launched airline; also, the JetBlue deal had some ""back end"" payments...meaning that JetBlue could pay Airbus certain payments much later than usual, which was very interesting for a start-up carrier (even a well capitalized one).

EasyJet benefited from very sharp pricing from Airbus in return for its enormous order.....and Airbus agreed to produce the special version of the A319 for Easyjet with the extra emergency exits allowing increased seating. I also remember reading/hearing that Airbus indirectly picked up some of the costs incurred by Easyjet resulting from the transition from a 737 to A319 fleet.

Did EasyJet and JetBlue get very very good deals from Airbus? Absolutely. Did EasyJet and JetBlue get their A32Xs for free? Of course NOT. EasyJet and JetBlue did get better deals from Airbus than Boeing was willing to offer at the time....so simple is it.

And, remember that JetBlue's and EasyJet's decisions concerning aircraft selection was primarily a FINANCIAL one.....in these cases, as is most cases (especially when in comes to the 737NG and A32X) both the Boeing and Airbus products are equals and either airplane could perform the missions intended. Its all about which manufacturer offers the best price, best package, and which can deliver the airplanes quicker. We airplane geeks can discuss A vs B until next Christmas, but in almost every case, the men and women in the financial department will make the final decision.

gilesdavies · Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:36 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 12):
Boeing's management has changed, and now we see certain airlines that switched to Airbus (Air Berlin comes to mind) switch back to Boeing.

I disagree to an extent, at the time Air Berlin switched to Airbus they were a short haul airline and decided to switch from the 737NG to the A320 family and this still remains the case for their shorthaul fleet. But now they are going into the Long Haul market they have gone back to Boeing because of either a better deal or more suitable equipment for their Long Haul plans.

If airlines like Ryanair, easyJet, Southwest and JetBlue were to expand into new markets that required a new family of aircraft, I think they would be foolish just to go to the same manufacturer without considering what else it out their.

Quoting Jenkingeorge (Reply 24):
Boeing bases - LTN, NCL, BFS

BFS is due to be an Airbus before the Summer 08 timetable and assume these will switch, to NCL or LTN. I thnk there may even be a rogue A319 based their this winter as they are increasing operations at BFS this winter unless a 737NG is being switched from another base.

columba · Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:07 pm

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 30):
I disagree to an extent, at the time Air Berlin switched to Airbus they were a short haul airline and decided to switch from the 737NG to the A320 family and this still remains the case for their shorthaul fleet. But now they are going into the Long Haul market they have gone back to Boeing because of either a better deal or more suitable equipment for their Long Haul plans

Also not quite true:
Air Berlin wanted to buy new aircraft and Boeing was not willing to offer them a good deal (AB wanted a similar deal as Ryanair got earlier) but Boeing did not believe in ABï¿½s growing plans and was reluctant to offer them a good deal also they took AB a long time Boeing customer for granted (AB started with used 707s and 737-200 as Air Berlin USA and later had -300s, -400s and NGs).
Later as they took over DBA and DBAï¿½s order for additional 73Gs they got back to business again with Boeing and did not only accepted the DBA order for 73Gs but ordered additional 737s (the biggest 737 order ever taken by a German airline).
After the take over of LTU they were looking for new long haul aircraft and choose the 787 over the A350.

ACEregular · Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:42 pm

I just do not understand the reasoning behind switching BFS to Airbus before NCL. At the end of the day LTN has had to take crew from other bases such as BFS and NCL just to keep LTN up and running, such as last Summer which saw a lot of crew living like gypsy's down south! When the need arises for LTN to get Boeing crew from other bases, BFS is the better option as they fly direct into LTN and can position more easily. NCL crew have to fly to STN and then endure the journey from hell across to LTN. I for one would prefer NCL went Airbus before BFS, after all we only have a fleet of five a/c this winter so its easier to train NCL up over the growing BFS base.

jenkingeorge · Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting Viscount630 (Reply 28):
Quoting Jenkingeorge (Reply 24):
Airbus bases - LGW, STN, EDI, GLA, LPL, ORY, DTM, SXF, MXP, MAD, GVA (Swiss AOC), BSL (Swiss AOC)

And BRS ??

Not sure which planes are based at BRS or EMA? Is it Airbus at BRS? and EMA?

-JG

DfwRevolution · Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 26):
Ryanair also get a phat discount. They get their 737's at least for a 50% discount

Ryanair (and QF for that matter) capitalized on the downturn of the U.S. carriers following 9/11. Boeing had rampant cancellation and deferment on their hands and Ryanair offered to pick up those delivery slots at bargain prices. That's quite a bit different then backing an unproven startup like B6.

gilesdavies · Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting ACEregular (Reply 32):
I just do not understand the reasoning behind switching BFS to Airbus before NCL. At the end of the day LTN has had to take crew from other bases such as BFS and NCL just to keep LTN up and running, such as last Summer which saw a lot of crew living like gypsy's down south! When the need arises for LTN to get Boeing crew from other bases, BFS is the better option as they fly direct into LTN and can position more easily. NCL crew have to fly to STN and then endure the journey from hell across to LTN. I for one would prefer NCL went Airbus before BFS, after all we only have a fleet of five a/c this winter so its easier to train NCL up over the growing BFS base.

So you would prefer NCL has A319's just for the reason, so NCL based crew do not have to cover for LTN based crew when there is a shortage? You refer to the problems last summer with crew shortages... I don't recall their being any problems since then - move on!

In many respects I think the interiors of the 737NG's are more pleasant than the A319's and most of the Boeings are still less than five years old and make a very pleasant ride!

F27Friendship · Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:28 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 34):
Ryanair (and QF for that matter) capitalized on the downturn of the U.S. carriers following 9/11. Boeing had rampant cancellation and deferment on their hands and Ryanair offered to pick up those delivery slots at bargain prices. That's quite a bit different then backing an unproven startup like B6.

be that as it may, but nevertheless it's good publicity for Boeing when the most famous low-cost carrier in Europe has their product.

JRadier · Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:18 am

Quoting ACEregular (Reply 26):
after all we only have a fleet of five a/c this winter so its easier to train NCL up over the growing BFS base.

As you say, BFS is expanding while NCL isn't quite so. Because Airbus keeps delivering A319's it is easier to switch BFS over now as that growth can be accommodated by new A319s. Furthermore, if you train new BFS staff on the 737 and later again on the 319, you train them twice.

Tornado82 · Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:36 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1):
I don't, but when they do, will WN snag some of the 73G's?

Seeing as WN "rescheduled" some new-build 73G deliveries recently and are slowing growth, I highly doubt they'd go grabbing used ones.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 23):
If Airbus gives airplanes away for free.....why wont they send one to me?

JetBlue got a very good deal on the A320s, if you do the math, it was about a 40% discount off of list price which was exceptional

Well, "buy one get one free" is a 50% discount on each bird, if you're saying it was a 40% discount (though NOBODY pays list price) then it was almost a buy one get one free scenario.

But why does it matter what JetBlue or anyone else pays? If you go in to buy a car don't you try negotiating down a couple grand from the sticker? I know I've surely never paid within $1500 of sticker price on a car. Why would the airlines not negotiate as well?

AirframeAS · Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:30 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 32):
Seeing as WN "rescheduled" some new-build 73G deliveries recently and are slowing growth, I highly doubt they'd go grabbing used ones.

My understanding when coming to WN getting more 737's is that Boeing turned them away (because of backlog issues, I believe..) and pointed them to those two Ford 73G's that they have now. WN is looking for more planes, IIRC. I believe OPNL can back this up, where is he when we need him??

This is a good opportunity for WN to score more 737's from easyJet, they should take advantage of it.

Tornado82 · Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:35 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 33):
WN is looking for more planes, IIRC.

Like I said, WN deferred near-term orders...
https://airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/3517572

Boeing74741R · Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 29):
In many respects I think the interiors of the 737NG's are more pleasant than the A319's and most of the Boeings are still less than five years old and make a very pleasant ride!

I wonder if the number of cycles on easyJet's 73Gs are as such that they will soon be needing their first C or D-Checks and if this is a factor in replacement? If so, then maybe they're getting rid now so that they can make more money per airframe rather than waiting until they come up for a check which will then harm the re-sale value of the aircraft (these checks are not cheap) unless your company is known as WN and are basically looking at every single 73G that becomes available on the second-hand market.

I think when easyJet first took delivery of A319s they planned to work them alongside the 73G while at the same time, catering for growth and fulfilling the need to phase out 733s. Now that the 733s are history they can now start towards simplifying the fleet even further. I think it's common practice within a few airlines worldwide that if they order an aircraft they sometimes use it to complement their existing fleet before using it to replace it? I remember reading that EVA Air plan to use their 777-300ERs alongside their 747-400s before replacing them.

Haven't flown on the 73G, but after riding on a 733 LPL-BCN and back in December 2005 and then on an A319 LPL-AGP and back in February this year I preferred the A319 simply because I felt it was more roomier inside (the front lav on the 733 was not built to allow a 6ft person like myself to stand upright in it!!!) and for the superior in-flight ride. Only fault was the lack of recline on the easyJet A319 seats but there you go!

aidoair · Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 24):
BFS is due to be an Airbus before the Summer 08 timetable and assume these will switch, to NCL or LTN. I thnk there may even be a rogue A319 based their this winter as they are increasing operations at BFS this winter unless a 737NG is being switched from another base.

The aircraft are coming over to BFS from NCL this winter to accommodate the new routes.

Quoting Jenkingeorge (Reply 27):
Not sure which planes are based at BRS or EMA? Is it Airbus at BRS? and EMA?

Yes both of these bases are airbus.

Aidoair Smile

express1 · Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:32 am

I did hear a rumour that Easyjet might buy the A321s too,but, im not holding my breath!!!

dave

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