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alberchico
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India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:23 am

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/I...kies_at_25/articleshow/2292829.cms

Very Interesting article. With all the demand I guess they are hiring pilots right out of flight school....
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
tonyban
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:49 am

Interesting acticle. Does a person in his late twenties have the maturity to be a Captain ?? I wouldn't be so sure.
 
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alberchico
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting Tonyban (Reply 1):
Interesting acticle. Does a person in his late twenties have the maturity to be a Captain ?? I wouldn't be so sure

In Europe most of the pilots of Ryanair and Easyjet are young graduates of ab initio training. What matters is the quality of training not physical age...
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:31 am

Quoting Tonyban (Reply 1):
Interesting acticle. Does a person in his late twenties have the maturity to be a Captain ?? I wouldn't be so sure.

20 odd year old pilots fly fighter jets for Air Force's all over the world....why can't they fly commercial planes as Commanders, assuming they have the required number of hours as FO and have undergone the necessary training and clearances....?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:12 am

Quoting Tonyban (Reply 1):

Interesting acticle. Does a person in his late twenties have the maturity to be a Captain ?? I wouldn't be so sure

It depends on an Individuals capability.One can't generalise on the age.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
zvezda
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:31 am

The part of the brain responsible for good judgement is fully developed in the early to mid twenties. Twenty year old airline pilots would be slightly worrisome; twenty-five year old airline pilots should be fine.
 
bucky707
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:33 am

Quoting Tonyban (Reply 1):
Does a person in his late twenties have the maturity to be a Captain ?? I wouldn't be so sure.

Depends on the person, depends on the training. I was an aircraft commander of a heavy jet flying all over the world when I was 28.
 
tonyban
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:40 am

Weren't the WWII pilots also in the 20's ? If so, I stand corrected. Thanks for clearing things....
 
787EWR
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 3):
20 odd year old pilots fly fighter jets for Air Force's all over the world....why can't they fly commercial planes as Commanders, assuming they have the required number of hours as FO and have undergone the necessary training and clearances....?

I believe it has to do with training. The training that military pilots go through is extensive. That's not to say that these pilots don't have extensive training, but in order to be a military pilot(at lease the US military), you need to be in the service for a certain amount of time. You also have access the best training materials and facilities. Also, it is all you do.

Finally and most important, there is only one or 2 individuals in a military jet. Not 150.
 
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Tugger
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:36 am

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 8):
Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 3):
20 odd year old pilots fly fighter jets for Air Force's all over the world....why can't they fly commercial planes as Commanders, assuming they have the required number of hours as FO and have undergone the necessary training and clearances....?

I believe it has to do with training. The training that military pilots go through is extensive. That's not to say that these pilots don't have extensive training, but in order to be a military pilot(at lease the US military), you need to be in the service for a certain amount of time. You also have access the best training materials and facilities. Also, it is all you do.

Finally and most important, there is only one or 2 individuals in a military jet. Not 150.

Another thing is that in combat/fighter pilots risk is OK.

What would be deemed risky in commercial flying will save your life and give you the upper hand in a fight. While what is required for passenger flying will get you killed, fast. Look at the difference between the two pilot groups in the military: Fighter and Transport. Lets just say that Fighter pilots consider Transport piloting to be beneath them, there is not the level of "thrill". Not say that fighter pilots are bad pilots, just that the skills that are honed, valued, emphasized are require more risk than conventional flight.

Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
bucky707
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:42 am

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 8):
but in order to be a military pilot(at lease the US military), you need to be in the service for a certain amount of time.

that's not entirely true. My first day on active duty in the U. S. Air Force was the day I showed up at my pilot training base. Prior to that I was in college, doing ROTC. One class a week, a six week field training camp and a two week flight screening were the extent of my prior military experience.
 
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Tugger
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:48 am

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 10):
Prior to that I was in college, doing ROTC.

Isn't that considered part of your service? Wasn't it a requirement to get into the cockpit? For my friends at college it was (way back when, maybe things have changed).

Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
elmothehobo
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:04 am

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 8):
you need to be in the service for a certain amount of time.

No.

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 10):
One class a week, a six week field training camp and a two week flight screening were the extent of my prior military experience.

Six week field training? Times have changed, four nowadays, and no physical discipline.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 11):
Isn't that considered part of your service? Wasn't it a requirement to get into the cockpit? For my friends at college it was (way back when, maybe things have changed).

(AF)ROTC doesn't count towards time in service unless you're simultaneously in a Reserve or Guard unit. There are incentive flights as part of professional development training and Civil Air Patrol flights which do count towards flight hours.

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 8):
You also have access the best training materials and facilities.

Absolutely.
 
KevinSmith
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:13 am

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 12):
Six week field training? Times have changed, four nowadays, and no physical discipline.

He was probably a three or two year cadet. They go to the six week camp. The extra two weeks is essentially the first year or two they missed in ROTC.

PD. Geez. Everybody makes a big deal about PD at FT. With or without it is still sucks.
Learning to fly, but I ain't got wings.
 
bucky707
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting Tugger (Reply 11):
Isn't that considered part of your service?

I didn't think so. It didn't count toward retirement, nor did it cound as time for pay scales or future promotions. But was it time in the military, yes. I wouldn't get too worked up over six weeks though.

Quoting KevinSmith (Reply 13):
He was probably a three or two year cadet

correct. I was a two year ROTC cadet.
 
jhooper
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 8):
but in order to be a military pilot(at lease the US military), you need to be in the service for a certain amount of time.

I was in the military for 3 months (Officer Training School) before strapping into an Air Force jet for the first time.

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 8):
Finally and most important, there is only one or 2 individuals in a military jet. Not 150.

The C-5 routinely transports 73 passengers, plus it has the capability to transport hundreds more in the cargo box if need be. That's was we did during Katrina and Rita. Perhaps we'll end up doing it for Dean too.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
787EWR
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting Jhooper (Reply 15):
was in the military for 3 months (Officer Training School) before strapping into an Air Force jet for the first time

Did you have prior flight exeperience? Also, were you flying the jet solo?

Quoting Jhooper (Reply 15):
The C-5 routinely transports 73 passengers, plus it has the capability to transport hundreds more in the cargo box if need be. That's was we did during Katrina and Rita. Perhaps we'll end up doing it for Dean too.

My terminology may be off, I was referring to fighter jets.

Bottom line, I have to believe that in order to be an effect commercial pilot you need a certain level of experience. With the rapid growth of commercial aviation in India and the asian region, I question how well trained those pilots are. A captain at 25 is pretty impressive.

I cannot quote how long it takes to become a captain, on a twin engine jet, in the US, but I have to believe it is more than 5 years.
 
Bofredrik
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:04 am

When you are young, 20-30, do you think that you can do anything
that older co-workers do. Despite of profession. But when you get
older do you find that experience with year after year at the job gives
a lot of security inside yourself. Not the kind of fake one that you think
you have at young age. A for example 25 year old captain is a completely
other thing than a for example 40 year old one. Life itself, not only skills
as a pilot, make you a more safe person in the cockpit. That is a fact!
 
KevinSmith
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:39 am

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 8):
Finally and most important, there is only one or 2 individuals in a military jet. Not 150.

Good point
I counter with the 23 24 year old 1st Lt who is driving a Strike Eagle with mulitple JADMs on the weapons stations. Potential to kill way more than 150.


Bottom line flying is flying and 20ish years old is young but not too young if you ask me. There are kids soloing at what 15-16 nowdays?
Learning to fly, but I ain't got wings.
 
bucky707
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:43 am

Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 17):
Life itself, not only skills
as a pilot, make you a more safe person in the cockpit.

Wow, someone who get's it. Well said.
 
jhooper
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:50 pm

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 16):
Did you have prior flight exeperience? Also, were you flying the jet solo?

Yes (in bug smashers), and Yes (I was flying a $4 Million plane solo after 16 rides with in IP).

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 16):
Bottom line, I have to believe that in order to be an effect commercial pilot you need a certain level of experience. With the rapid growth of commercial aviation in India and the asian region, I question how well trained those pilots are. A captain at 25 is pretty impressive.

This trend isn't confined to Asia. Look at all the 22ish kids getting hired on flying RJs. With upgrades in two or so years, it's going on right here in the U.S.A. as well.

As for me, I'm only 27 but I've been flying for 12 years. I know plenty of people in their mid-20s who are flying in command of very high value assets (whether fighter, bomber, tanker, transport, trainer, whatever) and many more than 150 people will die if they don't get their missions done. Young military officers are expected to "hit the ground running" and are responsible for alot more that folks may think. Not sure how we got off on that tangent, because I respect the value of age and experience, but sometimes the reality is that the younger generation is stepping up to the plate.

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 16):
I cannot quote how long it takes to become a captain, on a twin engine jet, in the US, but I have to believe it is more than 5 years.

It really all depends on the supply and demand for pilots at the time and seniority with a company. There's no arbitrary "5 years" or anything like that. Rapidly expanding carriers are upgrading within two years. Southwest could take 7-10 years, so I hear. And of course, AA still has people on the street.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
elmothehobo
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:42 pm

Quoting KevinSmith (Reply 13):
He was probably a three or two year cadet. They go to the six week camp. The extra two weeks is essentially the first year or two they missed in ROTC.



Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 14):
correct. I was a two year ROTC cadet.

Two year cadets do a five week program now, the first week being a purely academic session. I am (was) a three year cadet, the first week (academic session) was a stay at a four star hotel with classes for 7 hours a day. Now I understand where "Chair Force" comes from.
 
jamesbaldwyn
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:03 pm

I saw in the news a few months back, BA hired a 20ish yr old Captain in their europeon routes.
 
Bofredrik
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:09 pm

I want to add that i rather trust a 45-year old lawyer if i need one than a fresh direct from law school,
a 45-year old doctor to cure my cancer than a fresh one direct from medical school AND i would more
trust a 45-year old pilot in the indian air space than a 20+ one.

I would really like anybody here to argue against my opinion that education/training is one thing
but experience with that is everything...  airplane 

Ps. I worked myself in the travel trade when i was 20+. Then did i think that i had the skill to
run SAS or any other airline. "Just call me and i take over..." Now at 48 is that very funny!  ashamed  Ds.
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:08 pm

I'll be starting on my frozen ATPL next month.. When I am done with my education and working for airlines, I'll be 22 years old.... I guess that is pretty young too...
 
bucky707
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:36 pm

Quoting Jamesbaldwyn (Reply 22):
I saw in the news a few months back, BA hired a 20ish yr old Captain in their europeon routes.

I remember that article. The pilot in question was not a BA pilot, he flew for an airline that operated under the BA name. (something I don't really understand since it does not go on here in the U.S.)

Further, from what I remember, he was not hired as a captain he was hired at a very young age and had been at this particular airline long enough to be a captain. He was however, in his mid 20s.
 
pilotaydin
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:45 pm

Quoting Tonyban (Reply 1):
Interesting acticle. Does a person in his late twenties have the maturity to be a Captain ?? I wouldn't be so sure.

what? come on what if ur kid was one of those people?

i got my commercial when i was 20, ive been flying since i was 18, and now im on the boeing 737 for 2 years, i havent had any complaints and ive made senior first officer, it's about how much you love the job, not how old you are.....

hopefully when im 30 ill be a commander at TK, and im working damn hard for it as we speak....
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
bucky707
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:47 pm

here is the article about the 25 year old BA pilot:





Youngest BA captain but mum happy on groundAug 5 2005


By Kirsti Adair Daily Post Staff



PETER GIBBONS may have just become the youngest ever British Airways captain, but his love of flying doesn't run in the family.

The 25-year-old's mum, Lesley, isn't happy in the air, but says she feels safer when her son is in the cockpit.

Peter, who has seven years' flying experience, has taken command of a 159-seat Airbus.

His parents were aboard his first flight in charge to Malaga.

Mrs Gibbons, 52, from Prenton, said: "We are very proud of him. He's been into flying since he was very young.

"It was just something he wanted to do and achieved by himself. I'm not so good with it, but I do feel safer when I know Peter is flying the plane. He knows what he is doing. I'm still happiest when the plane is on the ground though.

"It was a lovely moment when we were aboard his first flight and they introduced him as captain. I was nervous for him, but he did well. You hardly knew you had landed."

Peter, who was sponsored through Oxford Air training school by the RAF, now flies passengers to holiday destinations from Manchester Airport.

He said: "I do get a few funny looks from people when I'm introduced as captain. Usually people are a few years older. I knew I was the youngest person on my training course but was quite surprised when they told me I was the youngest ever at the airline.'

After his training school, the former Wirral grammar school pupil joined Aer Lingus as a first officer flying Boeing 737 jets from Dublin Airport.

He joined GB Airways - a BA franchise in November 2001 as a first officer on the Boeing fleet, transferring to the Airbus fleet on their retirement. He took his command course in June.

Peter, from Oxton, said: 'Flying is something I have always enjoyed. I knew it was what I wanted to do. It is quite nerve wracking the first time it is you in charge but, once you have done it, it's fine. The training courses are so good these days they prepare you really well.

"It requires an awful lot of training and dedication to become a commercial airline pilot but I'm delighted to be able to demonstrate that you can have a very successful career path at an early age."

Bill Ward, GB Airways flight operations director, said: "We are very fortunate to have over 180 highly-trained pilots flying for us and Peter is living proof that hard work and determination will be rewarded."


[email protected]
 
BlueSkys
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:53 pm

Quoting Tonyban (Reply 1):
Does a person in his late twenties have the maturity to be a Captain ?? I wouldn't be so sure.

Maturity is not so much an age issue as a personal issue with many many factors that attribute to it including heredity.


I have met 20 some odd year olds with more life experience and MUCH more maturity than men int their mid 40's
 
leftwing
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:17 am

Dont see to many real aviation experts discussing this subject, when an airline trains a First Officer to Captain the candidate goes thru a serires of exams and simultaor checks only if he aces every thing can his Capt training can start.

Its not just a matter of 1500 hrs or being 45 yr old...I have seen many 40 yr old pilots with 10000 hrs who cant fly worth a dime and are very poor capts.
 
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asuflyer05
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:51 am

In order to be a Pilot-in-Command at a Part 135 operation in the United States you need to have an ATP certificate and a type rating. A pre req to the ATP is that you be 23 years old; be able to read, speak, write, and understand English; and hold an instrument and commercial pilot rating.

There are a number of schools in Arizona who train Asian, Indian, and European "ab-initio" pilots. It sort of scares me to hear them shooting ILS approaches (working on instrument training) and the student cannot make proper and legible radio calls.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:24 am

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 30):
There are a number of schools in Arizona who train Asian, Indian, and European "ab-initio" pilots. It sort of scares me to hear them shooting ILS approaches (working on instrument training) and the student cannot make proper and legible radio calls.

So, these students who 'scare' you...are they European, Indian or from other Asian countries? You need to be specific because this thread is about "India Has Really Young Pilots!".....
 
ThePinnacleKid
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:18 am

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 16):
I cannot quote how long it takes to become a captain, on a twin engine jet, in the US, but I have to believe it is more than 5 years.

In the US... upgrading to Captain can be very short... 2 years or less in some cases... all depends on the airline.

Quoting Tonyban (Reply 1):
Does a person in his late twenties have the maturity to be a Captain ?? I wouldn't be so sure

As far as age... people should stop worrying about the age of their pilot... it is more of an experience and training issue. I for one fly a RJ as a current F/O for a very very large regional in the US. I'm 24... as it stands now I'm around 1 yr from upgrade... I could upgrade while being 25 or slightly after at 26... More importantly, I'm not unique, there are tons of us flyin' everday people around North America that are my age or in some cases younger. We are well qualified, mature, and highly trained in what we do.
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
paladin87
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:41 am

RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 32):
In the US... upgrading to Captain can be very short... 2 years or less in some cases... all depends on the airline

He (or She) is right, most of the time I fly on NWA Airlink I have to fight the urge to ask them who they are taking to homecoming, the Capt. the other day look right out of high school.
 
flyf15
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RE: India Has Really Young Pilots! (article)

Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:26 am

At my airline, I encountered a crew recently where the FO and FA were both 19 and the CA was 23. Added together, thats only 61 years old. We have countless FOs in the 21-22 range and CAs in the 23-24 range.

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