Is This A320 Dirty, Or Patchwork, Or Both?

DIA · Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:32 am

Can't tell if this A320 just needs new paint, a wash, or touch-up. What's going on around the over-the-wing exit doors...and at the top of the rear of the fuselage? Thoughts?

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Photo © Weimeng

jetjeanes · Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:40 am

looks like just dirt around the doors.. that strip that looks painted on top im not sure,unless they were testing a section of new paint of something... Is this the one that burned yesterday..

Scorpio · Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting JetJeanes (Reply 1):
Is this the one that burned yesterday..

Nope. Wrong aircraft type / manufacturer, wrong airline, wrong country even.

richierich · Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:51 am

The dirt around the main cabin door is easy to identify. It is from a jetbridge.
Look at any older aircraft from CO, B6, BA, or other "white"-liveried airline - they all get dirty! Its not just Air France!!

The different color around the emergency exit doors I have a harder time explaining. Maybe the doors were recently replaced or something?

DIA · Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:56 am

Quoting Richierich (Reply 3):
The dirt around the main cabin door is easy to identify. It is from a jetbridge.

Civil Aviation 101.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 3):
The different color around the emergency exit doors I have a harder time explaining.

That, along with the rectangle patch up top is what I can't figure out. I'm sure one of A.net's techies can shed some light on this...

WINGS · Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:37 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 2):
Quoting JetJeanes (Reply 1):
Is this the one that burned yesterday..

Nope. Wrong aircraft type / manufacturer, wrong airline, wrong country even.

Scorpio, You are a classic. Wink

I could have not said it better myself.

JetJames, this was the plane that went up in flames yesterday.

CHINA AIRLINES (TAIWAN) BOEING 737-800

Regards,
Wings

jamesbuk · Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:54 am

Could it be that they may have increased the seat amount so they had to put new emergency exits in to keep within the rules? Cheaper than buying a new plane with 4 overwing exits silly

rgds --James--

richierich · Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:05 am

Quoting DIA (Reply 4):
Civil Aviation 101.

I agree - just wasn't sure if you knew that. Some people on this site probably wouldn't know that.

Quoting DIA (Reply 4):
That, along with the rectangle patch up top is what I can't figure out. I'm sure one of A.net's techies can shed some light on this...

I see what you mean. Not sure.....

airfoilsguy · Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:07 am

My guess is that the plane was filthy and was at a jet bridge. A horrendous rain storm came about and cleaned the plane except for the part covered by the bridge. The emergency doors are new patches and the top by the tail is the retractable moon roof.

paladin87 · Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:14 am

Quoting DIA (Thread starter):
What's going on around the over-the-wing exit doors

Most likely to identify them, perhaps for de-icing or emergency response for quicker locating

Scorpio · Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting Paladin87 (Reply 10):
Most likely to identify them, perhaps for de-icing or emergency response for quicker locating

You make them dirty to identify them??? rotfl

copter808 · Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:28 am

My guess would be that the different color shade around the overwing exits is to make the exit doors easier to see. If you look at the bottom of those exits, you can see the white strip in the blue. The white on white wouldn't be very easy to see!

jamesbuk · Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting Copter808 (Reply 12):

Thats one most airlines with a similar livery....

I'm still adamant I'm right in the fact they increased passenger loads/seats hence they had to increase the number of exits per law... so instead of buying a new plane, which is of course costly.. they cut out a hole over the wing and inserted in these exits, which is why the "dirt" is square, when has anyone here ever seen square dirt? or a jet bridge on an emergency exit?

rgds --James--

paladin87 · Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 11):
You make them dirty to identify them???

Funny. I was referring to the emergency exits over the wing not the main cabin door

avianca707359b · Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:08 am

Here's the same aircraft, taken in Dec 2006:

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Photo © Xu Zheng

Same phenomenon.

I can't believe that plane was not washed once during an 8 month period.

Perhaps it is not dirt but moisture? Maybe some fuselage panels have a different metallurgical composition and collect condensation differently - and through an optical illusion it just looks like dirt? I don't know what to make of this. I have no real explanation, especially regarding the roof "strip".

bmibaby737 · Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 13):
I'm still adamant I'm right in the fact they increased passenger loads/seats hence they had to increase the number of exits per law... so instead of buying a new plane, which is of course costly.. they cut out a hole over the wing and inserted in these exits, which is why the "dirt" is square, when has anyone here ever seen square dirt? or a jet bridge on an emergency exit?

If you look at previous photos, you'll see that your 'theory' is in fact false.

jamesbuk · Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:20 am

Quoting BmiBaby737 (Reply 16):

So why would there be square dirt? both on top of the fuselage and around the emergency exit?

Quoting BmiBaby737 (Reply 16):
'theory'

Rgds --James--

hman · Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:27 am

Quoting BmiBaby737 (Reply 16):
Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 13):
I'm still adamant I'm right in the fact they increased passenger loads/seats hence they had to increase the number of exits per law... so instead of buying a new plane, which is of course costly.. they cut out a hole over the wing and inserted in these exits, which is why the "dirt" is square, when has anyone here ever seen square dirt? or a jet bridge on an emergency exit?

If you look at previous photos, you'll see that your 'theory' is in fact false.

Its totally false, since all A320s have 4 overwing exits as far as I know. It's the A319s that need an extra pair for extra capacity.

paladin87 · Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:30 am

Quoting BmiBaby737 (Reply 16):
If you look at previous photos, you'll see that your 'theory' is in fact false.

True, but also it's a 320 , they all have two window exits on each side.

jamesbuk · Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:34 am

Quoting HMan (Reply 18):

Ah ok thanks... could they be replacements? maybe during a D check if the aircraft is old enough?

rgds --James--

Scorpio · Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:40 am

Quoting Paladin87 (Reply 14):
Funny. I was referring to the emergency exits over the wing not the main cabin door

So was I.

flybyguy · Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting Avianca707359B (Reply 15):
...Same phenomenon.

I can't believe that plane was not washed once during an 8 month period.

Perhaps it is not dirt but moisture? Maybe some fuselage panels have a different metallurgical composition and collect condensation differently - and through an optical illusion it just looks like dirt? I don't know what to make of this. I have no real explanation, especially regarding the roof "strip".

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Xu Zheng

I think that this plane may have just been abused in its years of service. You can clearly see a large patch underneath the L2 door... probably the work of a careless airstair driver. Other patchwork might be because of metal fatigue cracks or something of that sort. Perhaps that's the reason why the overwing exits are also included in what looks like patchwork?

Just to put my 2 cents, I don't think any of the state owned Chinese airlines take particular pride in the appearance of cleanliness of their planes... much like large municipalities rarely wash their metro busses simply because of the costs and logistics of it and the fact that they get replaced after a few years anyway. I believe that this sort of mentality is the same in Chinese commerical aviation... they probably run their aircraft into the ground because at the rate the Chinese economy is going the government will just make another ginormous multi-billion dollar order with Airbus or Boeing every few years and disperse them among the national carriers.

A roommate of mine from Shanghai once told me that Chinese medical centers get huge budgets, however if they don't use all the money their budget gets slashed... so it's not uncommon for a medical center to have multiple MRIs and med-evac helicopters they don't need. If this is true, maybe this sort of budget philosophy carries over to the airlines as well.

teme82 · Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:56 am

Me thinks it's because the air in major cities in china is bad. I was in Beijing in 1996 and when I stepped out of that A310 I felt the dust in the air. So I don't wonder why Chinese planes are looking dirty.

bx737 · Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:42 am

Could it be that the aircraft was cleaned in all bar sensitive areas. Maybe the scrubbing brush damages the overwing exits and cant reach up to the patch on the roof? Maybe the wash plants can't cope with the A320s and dont clean that particular area on the aircraft. I remember for a while when our local bus company introduced a brand new fleet they all had an identical dirt stripe on the back where the existing washers couldn't accommodate the new vehicles.

It is an airbridge that causes the marks at Door 1L, they are visible on all aircraft that park at airbridges.

wingletsman · Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:22 am

just dirty, and wear and tear...
however.... so sad to see that new 738 go!! Sad

the winglets didn't burn though!!

GeorgeJetson · Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:32 am

Quoting HMan (Reply 18):
Its totally false, since all A320s have 4 overwing exits as far as I know. It's the A319s that need an extra pair for extra capacity.

Some A319s (although not many) do have 4 overwing emergency exits. Search for D-AGWE, an A319-132 of Germanwings and you will see what I mean.

PH-TVH · Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:33 am

Quoting Breiz (Reply 7):
Easy. In China, the passengers use also the emergency exits to disembark. After a while, these doors do not seal very well anymore, so the airline techs use duck tape to seal them off.
In other words, not a clue.

I have a hard time to believe pax use emergency exits to disembark.

First point: These exits are sealed, once used, they need to be resealed by certified mechanics.
Second point: Where would the get of the wing?
Third point: A wing is not made to handle dozens of pax per day....

And I can go on for quite a while when I think about it...

bx737 · Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:34 am

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Reply 26):

Some A319s (although not many) do have 4 overwing emergency exits.

Easyjet have their A319s configured with 156 seats, as a result all of their A319s have 4 overwing exits

GeorgeJetson · Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:00 am

Quoting Bx737 (Reply 28):
Easyjet have their A319s configured with 156 seats, as a result all of their A319s have 4 overwing exits

It’s interesting how sometimes the number of overwing emergency exits can be used to easily distinguish one aircraft type from another one that’s similar. I remember back in the old days, it seemed like the easiest way to tell a Boeing 707 from a Boeing 720 was by counting the number of emergency exits. The 707 always had four overwing exits while the 720 usually had two instead. And of course, there were always exceptions as Eastern’s 720-025 as well as Northwest’s 720-051B had four of them! But nowadays, it really doesn’t matter since almost all these old birds have been long gone. As for today’s planes, one can also distinguish Next Generation Boeing 737s not only by the fuselage length (which may not be obvious to most people) but also by the number of overwing emergency exits with the Boeing 737-600 and -700 having two emergency exits and the -800 and -900 having four of them. I imagine that there may be exceptions with the NGs as well but can’t think of any offhand.

David L · Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:07 am

Quoting PH-TVH (Reply 27):
I have a hard time to believe pax use emergency exits to disembark.

I suspect the rest of the post gives a clue as to how serious it was...

Quoting Breiz (Reply 7):
so the airline techs use duck tape to seal them off.
In other words, not a clue.

Blackbird1331 · Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:32 am

If this airliner is owned by Air France, then I would say it is dirt. If it is owned by any one else, then I would say it is dirt. But, not as dirty.

Aaron747 · Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:44 am

Quoting Avianca707359B (Reply 15):
I can't believe that plane was not washed once during an 8 month period.

Have you been to China recently? The air quality is horrendous. If you flew through all of that particulate matter, dirt, soot, and industrial gunk you'd look like that after a week too.

QXPDXMTX · Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:04 am

I believe that the areas around the emergency exits are for easier identification and area on the top of the plane could be like the areas on the top of CRJ aircraft where it is best to cut the fuselage to rescue people who may be trapped inside if they are unable to escape via the doors/overwing exits. Just my 2 cents, and a heck of a run on sentence now that I look back at it.

Panman · Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:10 am

The different shades of paint just tell me that some work was done there recently and the paint required a touch up.

It could be any of numerous things

Corrosion

Structural repair

Flaking Paint

Paint discoloration - though too uniform in shape for me to believe it is this.

The mechs didn't use the exact shade of white, or enough coats of the correct shade of white (the primer can make the white appear darker than the surrounding area). Case in point: We had a TNT A300 in the hangar a while back where some corrosion was removed. The mech then reprotected the area, primed it with green primer, and applied one coat of orange paint. The result was a brown patch. After a few more coats it was orange.

Quoting PH-TVH (Reply 27):
First point: These exits are sealed, once used, they need to be resealed by certified mechanics.
Second point: Where would the get of the wing?
Third point: A wing is not made to handle dozens of pax per day....

First point: They are not 'sealed' as such and are quite easy to open, though unless the slides are deactivated (have to open up a panel in the aft cargo bay to do that) opening them will set off the slides.
Second point: If you can find an A320 pic that shows the upper surface of the wing at the emergency hatches, you will find that arrows pointing the way to disembark are painted on it. The arrows show the way to the slides, the slides will enable them to get down.
Third point: Correct. It was made to handle far more weight than that.

PaNmAn

kieran74 · Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:34 pm

maybe it is mold spots.........hahaha

Ruscoe · Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:52 pm

Could it have something to do with "cold sink" where the more heavily reinforced (or possibly repaired) areas hold the "cold" longer resulting in the appearance of a different colour. I had a car like that once. However the area above the fuselage would not fit my theory I think.

ruscoe

hman · Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:04 pm

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Reply 26):
Quoting HMan (Reply 18):
Its totally false, since all A320s have 4 overwing exits as far as I know. It's the A319s that need an extra pair for extra capacity.

Some A319s (although not many) do have 4 overwing emergency exits. Search for D-AGWE, an A319-132 of Germanwings and you will see what I mean.

That's what I was talking about although I was thinking about the Easyjet ones.

D328 · Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:28 pm

Way dirty....haha...I like dirty planes though..

cricket · Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:44 pm

No insult intended towards any Chinese friends here, but my god the planes in that country are Dirty. I was at PVG once and the SQ 773 I was taking was parked next to a MU jet and it seemed the wings hadn't been cleaned ever, so much dirt and grime had accumulated on them. What is so peculiar though is that the streets in Shanghai are spotless, the Pudong side seems cleaner than Singapore. In fact, I began to wonder if it was a city/culture obsessive about cleanliness. But then you saw the planes.

Anyway, the dirt can't really affect flight performance can it?

AirPacific747 · Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:07 pm

Quoting Cricket (Reply 39):
Anyway, the dirt can't really affect flight performance can it?

I think it can a little bit.. just like dirt on cars can affect performance on those a little bit too.

Strathpeffer · Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:55 pm

Personally I favour the 'touch-up' explanation. Perhaps MX used a paint that had a reduced gloss component compared to the stuff Airbus initially specs the plane with - maybe even the stuff painted under cockpit windows to restrict glare.

This could have been done in error or because they had no alternative. Either way, dirt and airborne particulates would adhere faster and more effectivly to the rougher surface of the less glossy paint - leading to the effect seen.

PJ

Bongodog1964 · Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:39 pm

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 20):
I think that this plane may have just been abused in its years of service. You can clearly see a large patch underneath the L2 door... probably the work of a careless airstair driver. Other patchwork might be because of metal fatigue cracks or something of that sort. Perhaps that's the reason why the overwing exits are also included in what looks like patchwork?

I tend to agree with the above, could it be that the door framing has either been replaced or is of a different material to the rest of the fuselage ?

iflyswa · Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:26 pm

It looks to me like some sort of poorly mismatched paintwork, or as Panman suggests, a hastily applied coating of paint over fresh primer. Above the overwing exits, take notice of the care taken to mask around the bottom of the C in the word "China."

The bowl (bottom) of the letter C dents the baseline just a little, extending below the imaginary line the word "China" seems to rest upon. It's a simple trick of perception, since putting something with a curve (or a point, in some cases) precisely on such an imaginary line so that they meet exactly would give the effect of the character riding high, instead of being in-line with the other characters.

The top of the painted (discolored) area above the overwing exits takes into account the C dipping below its baseline, dipping with and around it, so as not to cover any part of the letter C with the new application of paint to that area.

iflyswa

cx777fan · Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:34 pm

Quoting QXPDXMTX (Reply 33):
I believe that the areas around the emergency exits are for easier identification and area on the top of the plane could be like the areas on the top of CRJ aircraft where it is best to cut the fuselage to rescue people who may be trapped inside if they are unable to escape via the doors/overwing exits

That would stack up if every A320 - or at least every CZ A320 - but this one seems to be unique. I'm leaning towards some kind of mx issue and for some reason (price maybe) glossy white paint wasn't reapplied. Not a very thorough answer, but it's my best guess.

PH-TVH · Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:39 pm

Quoting Panman (Reply 34):

First point: They are not 'sealed' as such and are quite easy to open, though unless the slides are deactivated (have to open up a panel in the aft cargo bay to do that) opening them will set off the slides.
Second point: If you can find an A320 pic that shows the upper surface of the wing at the emergency hatches, you will find that arrows pointing the way to disembark are painted on it. The arrows show the way to the slides, the slides will enable them to get down.
Third point: Correct. It was made to handle far more weight than that.

First point, you are indeed correct, my fault

Second/third point, I know there are arrows on top of the wing. But I cant imagine the surface of the wing is made for the daily abuse of handling high heels and that kind of stuff. Indeed the wing is made for far more weight... But not on the way a high heel presses upon a coke-can thin surface... The wing is veeeery strong.. as a WING. Its made to withtstand crazy load factors.. But again, not high heels...

USADreamliner · Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:39 pm

Quoting JetJeanes (Reply 1):
Is this the one that burned yesterday..

Oh, Lord... nobody in USA listen during geography class????

Scorpio · Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting PH-TVH (Reply 45):

Um, have you still not figured out that the post you were originally replying to (by Breiz) was, in fact, said jokingly? One would think the

Quoting Breiz (Reply 7):
In other words, not a clue.

part would have given it away...

planesavvy · Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:17 am

In my experience Chinese airliners are the dirtiest flying into Heathrow, and that includes Cathay Pacific. The polution in China certainly has an effect.

In regards to this picture, I reckon that when the aircraft was being cleaned in a maintenance area, the over wing exit doors had been removed for servicing and a patch was stuck over their position, explaining why there is a dirty square around them and they are clean themselves.

PH-TVH · Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 47):
Um, have you still not figured out that the post you were originally replying to (by Breiz) was, in fact, said jokingly? One would think the

why do I take things always to serieus when it goes about aviation Sad

Cheers

copter808 · Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 13):
I'm still adamant I'm right in the fact they increased passenger loads/seats hence they had to increase the number of exits per law... so instead of buying a new plane, which is of course costly.. they cut out a hole over the wing and inserted in these exits, which is why the "dirt" is square, when has anyone here ever seen square dirt? or a jet bridge on an emergency exit?

You're kidding, right?

Other than the darker white around the overwing exits, there is no contrasting paint, except for the stripe on the bottom.

As for the darker color around the front loading door, it may not be dirt. The dirt from the jetway is evident as a curved arc over the top of the doorway, extending to the left (front) and down over the cockpit window.

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