787EWR
Topic Author
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:41 am

Qantas Flights 107-108

Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:52 am

I guess this is for any Qantas flight staff or observers.

Flights 107 and 108 are the SYD-LAX-NYC and reverse flights. After the initial 14hr flight, I assume there is a crew change in LAX. My question is, does anyone know if the same crew flies to New York and then back to LAX? This is not a daily flight, so I assume that there would not be multiple crews waiting in New York.

The other night, I picked up an in-law at Kennedy. The flight was on the ground by 6pm, but it took about 90 minutes to get to the gate because a BA777 had some problem. That being the case, I would have to assume that the plane heading west, would be a few hours late.

Thanks.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15057
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Qantas Flights 107-108

Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:32 am

Quoting 787EWR (Thread starter):
My question is, does anyone know if the same crew flies to New York and then back to LAX? This is not a daily flight, so I assume that there would not be multiple crews waiting in New York.

I'm sure some QF people will clear it up, but from what I recall from other posters, it used to be a layover city and crews liked it since you get a couple days in NYC, but QF switched it to a single crew doing the turn at NYC, and it's become less desirable duty.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
pers
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 10:43 pm

RE: Qantas Flights 107-108

Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:55 am

On the inbound and outbound flights, where do you clear customs for the USA?
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15057
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Qantas Flights 107-108

Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:05 am

Quoting Pers (Reply 2):
On the inbound and outbound flights, where do you clear customs for the USA?

The crew(s) that work the LAX-NYC leg are already inside the USA.

The customers all must clear customs in LAX before continuing on to JFK. Leaving JFK, we don't require you to clear any customs at all, but you do return your documentation to QF if you are on the leg leaving LAX for SYD.

The thing about the LAX-JFK-LAX turn is that it can carry "domestic" passengers as long as they are on a continuing itinerary that leaves the USA on QF flight numbers.

Thus, if you are an Aussie visiting the USA, you may stop-over in LAX. You may then take the LAX-JFK leg as a pure "domestic" leg, as it is not considered Cabotage. You can also take the JFK-LAX leg, then connect to a different QF flight that goes to SYD, MEL, BNE or Auckland. You can also take the JFK-LAX leg, spend more time in LA, then take a flight days later back to OZ.

This is not allowed for travel wholly inside the USA, and I do not believe that it is allowed for USA citizens either. In other words, a US citizen must fly on domestic metal to go from JFK to LAX if there is a stopover included in the trip. If you want to do a trip as a USA citizen such as JFK-LAX-stopover-LAX-SYD-stopover-SYD-JFK, you must fly domestic metal for all flights within the USA. But I believe you can fly on QF metal if you are not planning on stopping over in Los Angeles (and this would also allow for connections to other QF flights in LAX as long as it was same day).

At least this is how I understand it.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Qantas Flights 107-108

Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:21 am

Quoting 787EWR (Thread starter):
My question is, does anyone know if the same crew flies to New York and then back to LAX?

A few months ago, a QF F/A posted that the F/As do an LAX-JFK-LAX turn, while the pilots layover in NYC. I assume this is still the case, but not entirely sure...

Quoting 787EWR (Thread starter):
The flight was on the ground by 6pm, but it took about 90 minutes to get to the gate because a BA777 had some problem.

Ouch, I've noticed QF using the United side of the terminal lately as things get hectic on the BA side during the evening...I'm surprised they didn't do so then. Anyhow, I'm not sure what the F/A work rules are but I imagine that they have a sufficient number of F/As on board and rest periods so that it is no different than a long-haul QF flight (in terms of number of hours).
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
planetime
Posts: 613
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Qantas Flights 107-108

Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:45 am

Quoting 787EWR (Thread starter):
This is not a daily flight, so I assume that there would not be multiple crews waiting in New York.

It is a daily flight QF107/108 SYD-LAX-JFK and JFK-LAX-SYD.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Qantas Flights 107-108

Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:00 am

Quoting 787EWR (Thread starter):
This is not a daily flight,

I think it went from 5/week to daily fairly recently.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
In other words, a US citizen must fly on domestic metal to go from JFK to LAX if there is a stopover included in the trip

I've never heard of that restriction. Do you know where it is published? Can anyone at QF confirm whether this is correct. I tried booking QF JFK-LAX-SYD with a stopover at LAX using QF flights on both sectors and it never asks for the passenger's nationality. That would be very unusual.
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2521
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

RE: Qantas Flights 107-108

Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:42 am

Citizenship has nothing to do with it- you can have a stopover in LAX if your journey commences at JFK and the fare permits it.

The cabin crew fly LAX-JFK-LAX in one day now as the flight is rarely more than 50% full- it's primary purpose is for cargo, so it's not as if the crew are working very hard.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15057
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Qantas Flights 107-108

Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:03 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
Do you know where it is published?

And you may very well be right. I only said it was how it was explained to me in the past, and asked for corrections.

But... what a booking engine allows you to book and what you are allowed to actually fly are not the same thing. QF may very well allow you to book a lot of things that are not going to be allowed once you actually try to fly.

Or they may allow you to book and fly something that is illegal. Travelocity just got in trouble for that due to a system error that allowed them to sell travel to Cuba to USA citizens, and got a huge fine for it.

I was told that to fly 107/108 as a domestic leg (with LAX stopover), you must be a foreign citizen. Maybe it's not true.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4416
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

RE: Qantas Flights 107-108

Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:03 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 4):
A few months ago, a QF F/A posted that the F/As do an LAX-JFK-LAX turn, while the pilots layover in NYC. I assume this is still the case, but not entirely sure...

That is correct. Cabin crews operate various flights up to LAX (MEL,SYD,BNE,AKL) have a layover in LAX then operate LAX-JFK-LAX as a return flight. The only time they get to slip in NY is if the plane goes tech, unexpected large delays, weather (ie snowbound). Usually operated by Brisbane and Auckland based crews with the occasional Sydney crew member. It is quite a cross-crewed flight!
Pilots just operate LAX-JFK stay a day or two then return back to LAX for another slip before returning to Australia or New Zealand.
64 types. 44 countries. 24 airlines.
 
User avatar
azncsa4qf744er
Posts: 347
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:04 pm

RE: Qantas Flights 107-108

Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:14 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 9):
That is correct. Cabin crews operate various flights up to LAX (MEL,SYD,BNE,AKL) have a layover in LAX then operate LAX-JFK-LAX as a return flight. The only time they get to slip in NY is if the plane goes tech, unexpected large delays, weather (ie snowbound). Usually operated by Brisbane and Auckland based crews with the occasional Sydney crew member. It is quite a cross-crewed flight!
Pilots just operate LAX-JFK stay a day or two then return back to LAX for another slip before returning to Australia or New Zealand.

Wow how times has changed. I guess with daily flights it's alot easier to adjust cabin crew to do return than paying for transportation to and from hotel. Back when I was still with QF cabin and tech crew spends anywhere from two to five nights in NYC depending on the days they operate the flight.
 
flyboysp
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:43 pm

RE: Qantas Flights 107-108

Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:30 pm

Quoting 787EWR (Thread starter):
This is not a daily flight

It became daily on the 14th of this month.
#proudtobeabulldog
 
VHXLR8
Posts: 487
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:58 pm

RE: Qantas Flights 107-108

Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:35 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
QF switched it to a single crew doing the turn at NYC, and it's become less desirable duty.

That's right, it is now done as a LAX-JFK-LAX turn. I wouldn't say it's not a desirable duty though; whilst it'd be nice to spend a night or two in New York, the JFK trips are still fairly senior as the hours are good, and the slips in LAX either side are quite good.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 4):
I'm not sure what the F/A work rules are but I imagine that they have a sufficient number of F/As on board and rest periods so that it is no different than a long-haul QF flight (in terms of number of hours).

The crew compliment is always the same, 15 on a 3 class 747 400. Whilst it's the same amount of time as many long haul sectors, the whole '2 flights' thing can make a difference. Two cabin/galley checks, two sets of pax etc etc

Quoting ETA Unknown (Reply 7):
The cabin crew fly LAX-JFK-LAX in one day now as the flight is rarely more than 50% full- it's primary purpose is for cargo, so it's not as if the crew are working very hard.

The loads on a particular flight have nothing to do with crew scheduling. QF 107/QF 108 can often be quite full, and the crew really work when they are!

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
You can also take the JFK-LAX leg, then connect to a different QF flight that goes to SYD, MEL, BNE or Auckland.

SYD, MEL and BNE yes, AKL no. You can only connect onto Australia bound flights, not NZ.
 
User avatar
azncsa4qf744er
Posts: 347
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:04 pm

RE: Qantas Flights 107-108

Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:34 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 4):
I'm not sure what the F/A work rules are but I imagine that they have a sufficient number of F/As on board and rest periods so that it is no different than a long-haul QF flight (in terms of number of hours).

I believe Aussie requires that one flight attendant to every door of the planes. Given that Qantas has 12 doors thus requires 12 flight attendants and one CSM.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Qantas Flights 107-108

Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting VHXLR8 (Reply 12):
That's right, it is now done as a LAX-JFK-LAX turn. I wouldn't say it's not a desirable duty though; whilst it'd be nice to spend a night or two in New York, the JFK trips are still fairly senior as the hours are good, and the slips in LAX either side are quite good.

What happens when there are delays at JFK, as the poster above mentioned? What are the maximum number of hours QF F/As can work?

Quoting VHXLR8 (Reply 12):
The crew compliment is always the same, 15 on a 3 class 747 400. Whilst it's the same amount of time as many long haul sectors, the whole '2 flights' thing can make a difference. Two cabin/galley checks, two sets of pax etc etc

How does having two cabin/galley checks, etc, affect work rules and maximum hours?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Qantas Flights 107-108

Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:50 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 8):
Or they may allow you to book and fly something that is illegal.

The airlines' own websites, since they generally only permiit online and codeshare bookings, are probably easier to program than the various Internet travel agency sites (Orbitz, Travelocity, Expedia etc.) to ensure they don't accept bookings the carrier can't legally sell.
 
VHXLR8
Posts: 487
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:58 pm

RE: Qantas Flights 107-108

Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:49 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 14):
How does having two cabin/galley checks, etc, affect work rules and maximum hours?

Sorry, didn't quite explain that one properly. It does affect maximum hours etc; just meant that from the crew's perspective, it can make the day 'feel' longer. Just a psychological thing I guess.  Smile

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 14):
What happens when there are delays at JFK, as the poster above mentioned? What are the maximum number of hours QF F/As can work?

Would have to look that one up to get an exact figure for you; I think it's somewhere in the vicinity of 22 hours. As I said, I'm not totally sure, but it's a pretty high number of hours. When it's an extreme case like that, the crew would also receive a few extras in return, like higher hourly rates after a certain time, an extra couple of days off, stuff like that. In terms of the LAX-JFK-LAX duties, it would have to be a fairly hefty delay to displace the crew. It's usually a 15 hour day (with a minimum of 31 hours rest afterwards), so the company has got a fair bit of time up their sleeve to play with if there's delays.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos