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EI321
Posts: 5075
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 96):
Quoting GlobeEx (Reply 94):
Looking at LH, they won't replace their A300 with a similar sized plane, and I guess, BA will do the same. Some replaced by A321 and others by A350-800s.

An A321-200 won't carry many folks on a ~5000nm mission...

For that LH has the A330-200  Wink

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 92):
Quoting BAOPS777 (Reply 11):
BA will probably opt fot the A330 or A350

With BA's strong Boeing-only widebody history, what sense would this make?

Their RR only history is just as strong as what was once their Boeing-only history until they decided to replace the 757 and 737 with the A32X. Only reason the have GE's on the early 777's was because of a deal that GE cut with BA for their maintance facility, and BA were not happy with their early GE 777's at all.

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 92):
My guess?

-748/773s to replace 744s
-787s to replace 767s

A380 order of 5 or 6 is likely, but not this year....

Absolutly no point in ordering any 777's when the A350 is on the go. Its as bad as going for the A330 over the 787.
 
KrisYUL
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Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:25 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:52 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 100):
Their RR only history is just as strong as what was once their Boeing-only history until they decided to replace the 757 and 737 with the A32X.

Doesn't that also signal a tendency/desire to consolidate into specific type / sub-types, thus giving a historical precedent for a similar action with the A350 800-1000?
 
globeex
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RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:57 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 100):
For that LH has the A330-200

I think LH doesn't have any 332s left. They are all gone, right?

Quoting Virtual (Reply 98):

I you ask me, Airbus does have a good shot here.
I don't think the 767 replacement will play such a big role.
Looking at the fact that the 767 are just over 10% of BAs l/h fleet (actually less, if you see that only a few are used for l/h-flights).
Let us look at this. BA will at some stage buy the A380. I personally think, that this is a given. Now if they would choose the 787 and so far, the 787-1000 isn't even launched, there would be a huge gap between the A380 and 787-9. So they would have to take the 748 (well not that this isn't an option if they do go for the 350, but...)... so that would make three types in their fleet and still a very big gap between 787-9 (and even if it were a 787-100)... and also a gap between the 748 and A380. Now, that gap isn't that big, but that gap would be at the wrong end. It would be far better, if they had a small gap in the area between a 350-1000 and A350-900 and a larger gap between the A350-1000 and A380. A350-1000 / 748 / A380 would be nice as well, no question.

GlobeEx
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:00 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 93):
BA operates only 14 767 with only a few of them flying long haul. This does not justify an additional type in the fleet in my opinion. The main workhorse of BA long haul fleet is 777 and Airbus has a better option for them in that segment



Quoting GlobeEx (Reply 97):
As far as I know, must of 763 l/h flights do operate from LGW, don't they? That already indicates their position for BA as a l/h-aircraft. If I'm wrong I apologise.

All the BA B763 are based at LHR now. The 7 shorthaul at T1 and the 14 longhaul at T4.
Except for the cabin, they are identical, i.e. the shorthaul ones are ETOPS built.
 
EI321
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RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:04 am

Quoting Virtual (Reply 98):
What is the likelihood of an all-Airbus order?

A350-800 and A350-900 to replace B763 and eventually B772.
A350-1000 and A380-800 to replace B747-400.

It would certainly give the best CASM and fleet flexibility options. I still see a big gap in there for the 747-8i to fill however. The sticking point is the 767's. Assuming that they want to stay as close as possible to the 767 size wise, then there would be a seating difference of about 20 between the 787-8 and the A380-800. Unless they decided to order the A330-200, but I cant see than happening.
 
insiderinfo
Topic Author
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RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:06 am

Quoting Virtual (Reply 98):
What is the likelihood of an all-Airbus order?

A350-800 and A350-900 to replace B763 and eventually B772.
A350-1000 and A380-800 to replace B747-400.

Any guesses?

Not sure they want to phase out 772's....remember they just ordered 4..with 4 options that i think have already been firmed up..(4 UFO's for 772 for Boeing).

doesn't seem like a phase out plan to me...today the 777 is still be most effiecent plane in servce..still the bset choice availble for airliners....any the order books sure reflect that...

from boeing " The 777 is the market leader in the 300- to 400-seat segment, capturing more than 65 percent of that market since its launch. The 777 has logged orders for more than 975 airplanes over the life of the program, and has more than 325 unfilled orders worth more than $82 billion at current list prices"

i think we're looking too much into a paper plane right now..."the A350"...a great concept and unfortunatley nothing more at this time"

i think your going to see BA feel that way too...hard to bank your growth on somebody else's concept...especially when you have other choices...maybe not many...and maybe not better choices....but they have alternatives to a concept plane...which any commitment poses a high risk .
 
EA772LR
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RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 28):
Boeing is for years desperately looking for 747-8i customers. Draw your own conclusion.

I respectfully disagree Keesje. I don't think Boeing is all that concerned with selling the 748I. I think they are probably close to a ROI on it with the continuing 748F orders. The 748 is based off an older design, but it is still much more advanced and efficient plane than the 744.
 
virtual
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RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:12 am

What role will cargo capacity play in the decision?

A friend of mine who is a VS A343/346 Capt told me that the A346 is a great B744 replacement for them on business routes as they can carry similar numbers of high-yield premium passesngers, fewer low-yield economy passesnger and a hell of a lot more cargo. Thus, the B744s have largely become the 'beach fleet', flying on routes such as Antigua, Barbados, Orlando, etc., where passenger capacity is more important than cargo capacity.

Using that example, I can imagine BA replacing its 57 B744s with 10-15 A380s for the highest-density routes, plus 40-50 A350-1000's which would carry fewer of the economy class passengers that I'm sure BA despises!
 
EI321
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Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:27 am

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 106):
I don't think Boeing is all that concerned with selling the 748I.


You cant be serious. Boeing are marketing the Intercontental like crazy.

Quoting Virtual (Reply 107):
Using that example, I can imagine BA replacing its 57 B744s with 10-15 A380s for the highest-density routes, plus 40-50 A350-1000's which would carry fewer of the economy class passengers that I'm sure BA despises!

Well BA have a rather varied layout on their jumbo's, from 291 seats upwards. Whatever they replace them with, they will probably vary the capacity depending on the route.

On thing to consider is airport compatability. This would not really be a big deal with the A380, as we know that they will only order 15 or so, but there is bound to be some airports that currently see BA 744's, but cant accomodate the 748's wingspan. They are a small number, but BA will have to send in something smaller to these places.

[Edited 2007-08-27 19:28:05]
 
ncelhr
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RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:29 am

As everybody else has had a guess, I'll try too:

A380: practically confirmed for 10-12 airframes. They have to get it because their main European competitors have it as well. LHR slots are restricted and they are looking at increasing the number of seats on their key routes, to keep up with increase in passengers. Frequencies may be decreased by 1 a/c a day, or keep a frequency with 772s.

The interesting thing is what they'll order to replace the 767s. I can't see BA ordering any aircraft that hasn't flown yet. So they'll be looking at aircraft to bridge the gap until they make their main decision. The choice of those aircraft will determine what constructor they'll finally order from out of 787 & 350.
If they go for 772 & 773, the likely route will be to go for 787 in the future.
If they go for 330, the likely route will be to go for 350.
As for the 748, I don't see them ordering them just yet. There are still plenty of delivery slots not that far away and they can replace their oldest 744s with A380. When the 748 will fly, they are very likely to get around 20 airframes, just because what are they going to do with all their 744 pilots? Once delivery takes place, if there is a need for them, they'll order more. Furthermore, they'll order 748 Cargo as well. The 744 have served them well over many years and I can't see BA not having 74x A/C.

Pure speculation, so don't shoot me if you disagree.
 
EI321
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RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:37 am

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 106):
I think they are probably close to a ROI on it with the continuing 748F orders. The 748 is based off an older design, but it is still much more advanced and efficient plane than the 744.

Im highly sceptical of this assumption that the 747-8 has already turned a paper profit, never mind an actual profit as the real bucks dont come in until they actually deliver the planes.

According to many a.netters, airbus has not made anything on the A345/6 which cost as much as $2.8b and has so far sold about only 135 frames. The 747-8 will cost $4b and has so far sold 90 frames over the two varients.
 
Eureka
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RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:47 am

Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 109):
A380: practically confirmed for 10-12 airframes. They have to get it because their main European competitors have it as well. LHR slots are restricted and they are looking at increasing the number of seats on their key routes, to keep up with increase in passengers. Frequencies may be decreased by 1 a/c a day, or keep a frequency with 772s.

That is rubbish. The current ICAO and NATS separation requirements for the A380 obviate the gains in passengers carried provided by the A380's increased capacity. If BA is convinced that the 747-8 falls into a less restrictive category than the A380 it becomes very likely that the former aircraft will provide them with the greatest passenger through put benefit into LHR.
 
EI321
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RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:59 am

Quoting Eureka (Reply 111):
Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 109):
A380: practically confirmed for 10-12 airframes. They have to get it because their main European competitors have it as well. LHR slots are restricted and they are looking at increasing the number of seats on their key routes, to keep up with increase in passengers. Frequencies may be decreased by 1 a/c a day, or keep a frequency with 772s.

That is rubbish. The current ICAO and NATS separation requirements for the A380 obviate the gains in passengers carried provided by the A380's increased capacity. If BA is convinced that the 747-8 falls into a less restrictive category than the A380 it becomes very likely that the former aircraft will provide them with the greatest passenger through put benefit into LHR.

And what happens when they build a third runway at LHR? Its planned to open in 2015.
 
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Stitch
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RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:07 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 100):
Absolutly no point in ordering any 777's when the A350 is on the go. Its as bad as going for the A330 over the 787.

And yet the A330 had her best sales year ever this year...  Wink

Still, I agree that if BA takes any more 777s, they will be 777-200ERs and in small amounts (2-4).

Quoting EI321 (Reply 110):
I'm highly sceptical of this assumption that the 747-8 has already turned a paper profit, never mind an actual profit as the real bucks don't come in until they actually deliver the planes.

According to many a.netters, airbus has not made anything on the A345/6 which cost as much as $2.8b and has so far sold about only 135 frames. The 747-8 will cost $4b and has so far sold 90 frames over the two varients.

Well, you should know better then to listen to a.netters.  Smile

Seriously, it is true that the 747-8 program has generated precious little income right now since all Boeing has received checks for is the deposits. I still believe the only way Boeing has a $4 billion price tag on the 747-8 program is if it includes at least the 747-Advanced and possibly the 747-X and 747-X Stretch development costs, as well. So, frankly, should the 747-8 program recover those costs, as well, then it's doing darn well in my book.  thumbsup 
 
EI321
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Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:12 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 113):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 100):
Absolutly no point in ordering any 777's when the A350 is on the go. Its as bad as going for the A330 over the 787.

And yet the A330 had her best sales year ever this year...

As will the 777  Wink

Quoting Stitch (Reply 113):
Well, you should know better then to listen to a.netters.

Well its either them or the Leahy/Tinsith propaganda machines  Wink
 
ncelhr
Posts: 258
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RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:13 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 112):
And what happens when they build a third runway at LHR? Its planned to open in 2015.

I'll believe that one when I see it. All around West London there are leaflets to petition the governement into not allowing a third runway. Expect delays on this one... That said, I am FOR a third runway, but that belongs to another thread.
 
deltadc9
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Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting Moo (Reply 21):
No, you only have to highlight the bit you want to quote (as I did to you just now) and then hit the 'Quote Selected Text' button on that post. This creates the proper quote text and attributes it to the correct original author.

There is also an issue with posts being deleted and a quote referencing the deleted reply then referencing the new name occupying that reply number

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 53):
Boeing aren't planning on getting EASA certification for the 787-3, so BA won't be operating them.

Not correct.

Quoting TKV (Reply 65):
As far I understand, Boeing had simply decided not to seek the B773 EASA certification, due to its high cost, as long no orders were forthcoming from the EU. If BA issues an order, there would be plenty of time to get it !

Exactly the way I understand what is going on with that.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 78):
Thanks for the information. I learned something new.

I dont think you did, you learned something that is incorrect. See above.

My guess, SWAG that is, is for a 767/787 combined order and a small number, 10-12, 747i's firm and a lot of options that they may or may not firm up depending on how the 380 eventually fits into their plans, which I dont think they have fully analysed yet. This gives them all the flexability they need.
 
virtual
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RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:16 am

Hang on a minute, isn't it actually a bit too soon for BA to be thinking of replacing their earlier-built 744s, I mean they're not even 30 years old yet.  Wink

I think it was 1998 when last flew on a 1971-vintage British Airways 747-136!
 
EI321
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RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:21 am

Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 115):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 112):
And what happens when they build a third runway at LHR? Its planned to open in 2015.

I'll believe that one when I see it. All around West London there are leaflets to petition the governement into not allowing a third runway.

Happens at every airport when a new runway is proposed. I can think of an example of it suceeding though.
 
Eureka
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Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:02 pm

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:24 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 112):
And what happens when they build a third runway at LHR? Its planned to open in 2015.

That's a non sequitur statement. Regardless of the number of runways the greater number of landings the 747-8 will afford BA combined with the delta in passengers from the existing 747-400 means a greater capacity than the A380 up to the point the terminal becomes the limiting factor. At that point the lighter airframe and more efficient engines of 747-8 will keep it ahead in terms of lower fuel burn per passenger. The wing technologies of the two planes are very similar so that likely won't be enough to pull the A380 ahead. The A380 needs to be stretched to optimize its weight to its passenger capacity but that is hard to justify given the overall market for an aircraft of that size.
 
dambuster
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:49 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:26 am

I might be a little late... just saw this.
I'm repeating what some members already said but here goes: orders for 773ERs, 787-3, 787-9 and 748s are likely, it's just logical. The only thing we can't be sure of are the numbers, especially for the 748s since the 773 seems to replace 747s in some cases.
Any Airbus order is unlikely, unless of course if there's a serious need to replace the 767s which is quite an old fleet.
The only question for me are the 772ERs... don't know how long they're gonna keep those. I'd appreciate answers...
 
EA772LR
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RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:00 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 110):
According to many a.netters, airbus has not made anything on the A345/6 which cost as much as $2.8b and has so far sold about only 135 frames. The 747-8 will cost $4b and has so far sold 90 frames over the two varients.

I stand corrected. I didn't realize it was 4 billion invested on the 748. My mistake.
 
mrcomet
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RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:15 am

All interesting comments but it is pretty clear what has happened based on what hasn't happened:

Its an all Airbus order except for some 777s which were ordered last week.

Boeing would have been obligated to post a UFO order. Airbus would definitely wait until an air show or something else to announce something.

Also, the BA chief has been well known to be susceptible to Airbus's sweetheart deals.

I expect a bunch of A330s prior to A350s and some A380s.
 
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Stitch
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:18 am

Quoting MrComet (Reply 122):
Its an all Airbus order except for some 777s which were ordered last week. Boeing would have been obligated to post a UFO order. Airbus would definitely wait until an air show or something else to announce something.

Unless BA has actually signed a deal and handed over a check - and I do not believe that was what the OP was claiming - then Boeing does not have to list anything as of yet, so the lack of a sudden large 787/747 UFO order should not be a sign BA has chosen Airbus.
 
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keesje
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RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:50 am

Quoting Insiderinfo (Reply 105):
today the 777 is still be most effiecent plane in servce..

The 777 is very effiecinet especially the 777-300ER. On routes <5000 nm (most longhaul routes) the A330-300 carries the same passenger & cargo load. It is however

A330-300 - Empty 121,870kg (268,675lb), 777-200ER - Empty 142,430kg (314,000lb), a delta of 21.000kg (45,000lb) no- payload.

Which translates into CASM figures that explain why few B777-200ER´s are sold these days, even 777 operators buy A333´s.
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...ittervalueBriefin.jpg?t=1188243400

The 777-300ER will probably continue to sell well because of availability & lack of competition.
 
globeex
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:33 pm

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:31 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 124):
Which translates into CASM figures that explain why few B777-200ER´s are sold these days, even 777 operators buy A333´s.
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...43400

767 has a low/same CASM as 747, if that would be correct, i guess that would not only surprise me?!

GlobeEx
 
hawkercamm
Posts: 108
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RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:32 am

I personally think BAs long term long haul fleet renewal will be based on the B787 A350 and A380. I would consider any future A330 and B777 orders for immediate growth only and will occur in small orders.

Before considering the future BA long haul fleet and orders lets review their current long haul fleet and age.

21 B767-300/ER (average age 14.4)
MSN TYPE Delivery Date Reg
24334 (281) 767-336 08/02/1990 G-BNWB
24335 (284) 767-336 21/02/1990 G-BNWC
24336 (286) 767-336 27/02/1990 G-BNWD
24333 (265) 767-336 25/04/1990 G-BNWA
24340 (335) 767-336ER 31/10/1990 G-BNWH
24341 (342) 767-336ER 18/12/1990 G-BNWI
25204 (376) 767-336ER 25/06/1991 G-BNWM
25444 (398) 767-336ER 30/10/1991 G-BNWN
25442 (418) 767-336ER 02/03/1992 G-BNWO
25732 (421) 767-336ER 20/03/1992 G-BNWR
25828 (476) 767-336ER 08/02/1993 G-BNWT
25826 (473) 767-336ER 19/02/1993 G-BNWS
25829 (483) 767-336ER 16/03/1993 G-BNWU
27140 (490) 767-336ER 29/04/1993 G-BNWV
25831 (526) 767-336ER 03/02/1994 G-BNWW
25832 (529) 767-336ER 01/03/1994 G-BNWX
25834 (608) 767-336ER 22/04/1996 G-BNWY
25733 (648) 767-336ER 25/02/1997 G-BNWZ
29230 (702) 767-336ER 22/05/1998 G-BZHA
29231 (704) 767-336ER 30/05/1998 G-BZHB
29232 (708) 767-336ER 19/06/1998 G-BZHC

57 B747-400 (average age 13.1)
MSN TYPE Delivery Date Reg
23908 (727) 747-436 30/06/1989 G-BNLA
23910 (734) 747-436 21/07/1989 G-BNLC
23909 (730) 747-436 31/07/1989 G-BNLB
23911 (744) 747-436 05/09/1989 G-BNLD
24047 (753) 747-436 15/11/1989 G-BNLE
24049 (774) 747-436 27/02/1990 G-BNLG
24048 (773) 747-436 28/02/1990 G-BNLF
24051 (784) 747-436 21/04/1990 G-BNLI
24052 (789) 747-436 23/05/1990 G-BNLJ
24053 (790) 747-436 25/05/1990 G-BNLK
24054 (794) 747-436 14/06/1990 G-BNLL
24055 (795) 747-436 28/06/1990 G-BNLM
24056 (802) 747-436 27/07/1990 G-BNLN
24057 (817) 747-436 25/10/1990 G-BNLO
24058 (828) 747-436 17/12/1990 G-BNLP
24447 (829) 747-436 15/01/1991 G-BNLR
24629 (841) 747-436 13/03/1991 G-BNLS
24630 (842) 747-436 19/03/1991 G-BNLT
25406 (895) 747-436 28/01/1992 G-BNLU
25427 (900) 747-436 20/02/1992 G-BNLV
25432 (903) 747-436 05/03/1992 G-BNLW
25435 (908) 747-436 03/04/1992 G-BNLX
27090 (959) 747-436 10/02/1993 G-BNLY
27092 (967) 747-436 22/03/1993 G-CIVA
25811 (1018) 747-436 15/02/1994 G-CIVB
25812 (1022) 747-436 26/02/1994 G-CIVC
27349 (1048) 747-436 14/12/1994 G-CIVD
27350 (1050) 747-436 20/12/1994 G-CIVE
25434 (1058) 747-436 29/03/1995 G-CIVF
25815 (1059) 747-436 20/04/1995 G-CIVG
25809 (1078) 747-436 23/04/1996 G-CIVH
25814 (1079) 747-436 02/05/1996 G-CIVI
27091 (964) 747-436 30/09/1996 G-BNLZ
25817 (1102) 747-436 11/02/1997 G-CIVJ
25818 (1104) 747-436 28/02/1997 G-CIVK
27478 (1108) 747-436 28/03/1997 G-CIVL
28700 (1116) 747-436 05/06/1997 G-CIVM
28848 (1129) 747-436 29/09/1997 G-CIVN
28849 (1135) 747-436 05/12/1997 G-CIVO
28850 (1144) 747-436 17/02/1998 G-CIVP
25820 (1146) 747-436 02/03/1998 G-CIVR
28851 (1148) 747-436 13/03/1998 G-CIVS
25821 (1149) 747-436 20/03/1998 G-CIVT
25810 (1154) 747-436 24/04/1998 G-CIVU
25822 (1157) 747-436 15/05/1998 G-CIVW
25819 (1156) 747-436 22/05/1998 G-CIVV
28852 (1172) 747-436 03/09/1998 G-CIVX
28853 (1178) 747-436 29/09/1998 G-CIVY
28854 (1183) 747-436 31/10/1998 G-CIVZ
28855 (1190) 747-436 14/12/1998 G-BYGA
28856 (1194) 747-436 17/01/1999 G-BYGB
25823 (1195) 747-436 19/01/1999 G-BYGC
28857 (1196) 747-436 26/01/1999 G-BYGD
28858 (1198) 747-436 05/02/1999 G-BYGE
25824 (1200) 747-436 17/02/1999 G-BYGF
28859 (1212) 747-436 29/04/1999 G-BYGG
24050 (779) 747-436 01/04/2003 G-BNLH

43 B777-200/ER (4 more on order) (average age 8.6)
MSN TYPE Delivery Date Reg
27107 (15) 777-236 11/11/1995 G-ZZZC
27105 (6) 777-236 20/05/1996 G-ZZZA
27485 (53) 777-236ER 06/02/1997 G-VIIC
27486 (56) 777-236ER 18/02/1997 G-VIID lsd from BBAM
27487 (58) 777-236ER 27/02/1997 G-VIIE lsd from BBAM
27488 (61) 777-236ER 19/03/1997 G-VIIF
27106 (10) 777-236 28/03/1997 G-ZZZB
27489 (65) 777-236ER 09/04/1997 G-VIIG
27490 (70) 777-236ER 07/05/1997 G-VIIH
27484 (49) 777-236ER 23/05/1997 G-VIIB
27491 (76) 777-236ER 10/06/1997 G-RAES
27483 (41) 777-236ER 03/07/1997 G-VIIA
27492 (111) 777-236ER 29/12/1997 G-VIIJ
28840 (117) 777-236ER 03/02/1998 G-VIIK
27493 (127) 777-236ER 13/03/1998 G-VIIL
28841 (130) 777-236ER 26/03/1998 G-VIIM
29319 (157) 777-236ER 21/08/1998 G-VIIN
29320 (182) 777-236ER 26/01/1999 G-VIIO
29321 (193) 777-236ER 09/02/1999 G-VIIP
29322 (203) 777-236ER 18/03/1999 G-VIIR
29323 (206) 777-236ER 01/04/1999 G-VIIS
29962 (217) 777-236ER 26/05/1999 G-VIIT
29963 (221) 777-236ER 28/05/1999 G-VIIU
29964 (228) 777-236ER 29/06/1999 G-VIIV
29965 (233) 777-236ER 30/07/1999 G-VIIW
29966 (236) 777-236ER 11/08/1999 G-VIIX
29967 (251) 777-236ER 22/10/1999 G-VIIY
30302 (242) 777-236ER 07/01/2000 G-YMMA
30303 (265) 777-236ER 18/01/2000 G-YMMB
30304 (268) 777-236ER 04/02/2000 G-YMMC
30305 (269) 777-236ER 18/02/2000 G-YMMD
30306 (275) 777-236ER 16/04/2000 G-YMME
30307 (281) 777-236ER 17/05/2000 G-YMMF
30308 (301) 777-236ER 27/09/2000 G-YMMG
30309 (303) 777-236ER 14/10/2000 G-YMMH
30310 (308) 777-236ER 02/11/2000 G-YMMI
30311 (311) 777-236ER 08/12/2000 G-YMMJ
30312 (312) 777-236ER 08/12/2000 G-YMMK
30313 (334) 777-236ER 14/04/2001 G-YMML
30314 (342) 777-236ER 31/05/2001 G-YMMM
30316 (346) 777-236ER 15/06/2001 G-YMMN
30317 (361) 777-236ER 17/09/2001 G-YMMO
30315 (369) 777-236ER 30/10/2001 G-YMMP


The 1st 30 B747-400 will become 20+years old between 2010-2015. I would predict these get replaced by 30 A380-800 over the same time period. (5 per year for 6 years!). I don't think the remaining B747-400 will be replaced by A380. Not in the current (20year plans). BAs newest B747-400s will become 20years old by 2019 and in the time between 2015/7 upto 2025 I expect the last 27 747-400s will leave BAs fleet.

The newest 27 747-400 will be replaced by 30 A350-1000s to be delivered between 2015-2020. I don't expect we will see this order this year may be not next.

I think the A380/A350-1000 combination will offer good route flexibility and allow BA to adapt on dense routes with the flexibility of 2 A350-1000, 1A380 1 A350-1000 or 2 A380 on route where 2 B747s are currently used.

The replacement of the 21 B767s is a little late since BA have missed the B787 slots until 2013. I expect all 21 B767s to be replaced with B787-8s and I would extend this number to 30 for growth. I can see BA taking all 30 aircraft over 3 years, 10 in 2013, 10 in 2014 and 10 in 2015.

Most of the 47 B777s are still fairly young so I don't see any immediate need to replace or order. However, how they will be replaced needs to be planned in the current long term fleet planning. I would expect the 47 B777s to be replaced with a mix of 60 B787-9 and A350-900/Rs.

BA fleet 2010
21 B767
57 B747
47 B777

BA fleet 2025
30 B787-800
30 B787-900
30 A350-900/R
30 A350-1000
30 A380-800

Order in 2007 30 B787-8s, 30 A380-800s (This is not a A350 snub)
B787-8 Delivery 2013-2015 10 per year
A380-8 Delivery 2010-2015 5 per year.

Order in 2008-9 30 B787-900 30 A350-900
B787-9 Delivery 2015-2020 5 per year.
A350-9 Delivery 2015-2020 5 per year.

Order in 2010 30 A350-1000
A350-10 Delivery 2015-2022 5 per year.

I choose 30 A350-1000 over 20 B747-800. The gap between A350-1000 and A380-800 is filled with fleet flexibility that is offered by the 2 aircraft on dense routes. In the time between 2010 and 2015 fleet flexibility is drawn from B777, B747-400, A380-800 combinations.

I make no account of Y3 because I don't expect B to EIS a new long haul plane before 2022-2015 andit does not exist other than in ANET rumour. The conclusions of the Yellowstone project was a study valid in one point of time. The reality is that B may need to do something quicker to challenge A350-900,900R,1000. This could be the B787-10,11 with new wing and engine EIS 2016/17, $5/6B development cost.
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3542
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:00 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 88):
On the LHR congestion side, how many slots does BA burn with a plane smaller than a 320? I've seen some prop jobs at the gate in the past. If BA hits a real slot crunch they can utilize the old "milk run" approach, even if it is one stop. Each conversion to a one stop commuter run adds 2 slots for larger planes. (I actually enjoyed my last milk run - it was on a DC-3!

Simple answer none. their LHR fleets smallest plane is the A320.

Quoting TKV (Reply 90):
This is the same as already discussed regarding LH. Yes, they resist pressure when what is asked is clearly negative for their interests and needs, but if it cost little they comply with their government wishes, as to have good relations there is fundamental, especially for internationally operating companies. BA, between other, need government help to protect their interests against incursions of EK and alike !!

BA wouldn't take account of any outside presuure even if it only cost a penny extra.

Quoting Insiderinfo (Reply 105):
Not sure they want to phase out 772's....remember they just ordered 4..with 4 options that i think have already been firmed up..(4 UFO's for 772 for Boeing).

doesn't seem like a phase out plan to me...today the 777 is still be most effiecent plane in servce..still the bset choice availble for airliners....any the order books sure reflect that...

from boeing " The 777 is the market leader in the 300- to 400-seat segment, capturing more than 65 percent of that market since its launch. The 777 has logged orders for more than 975 airplanes over the life of the program, and has more than 325 unfilled orders worth more than $82 billion at current list prices"

i think we're looking too much into a paper plane right now..."the A350"...a great concept and unfortunatley nothing more at this time"

i think your going to see BA feel that way too...hard to bank your growth on somebody else's concept...especially when you have other choices...maybe not many...and maybe not better choices....but they have alternatives to a concept plane...which any commitment poses a high risk .

Whatever you are a buyer of, it certainly isn't English spelling or grammar books
 biggrin   bigmouth 
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13725
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:03 am

Quoting Gbfra (Reply 4):
(The last time a real insider was musing about an order - it was an LH order - he was soon banned from this forum.)

I thought he just SDed?

Anyway, my money is on a combo of 747-8Is for replacing the 747s 1 to 1, and as 1 to 1 replacement of the 767s, the 787-8 will join.
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3701
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting HawkerCamm (Reply 126):
The replacement of the 21 B767s is a little late since BA have missed the B787 slots until 2013

Although BA has 21 B767 in service, only 14 are in the long haul fleet. Only this 14 are slated for replacement.
I expect the 7 short haul B767 will be replaced by A321.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 127):
Simple answer none. their LHR fleets smallest plane is the A320.

Actually all the BA A319 are based at LHR at the moment(although you may see one at LGW now and then)
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13725
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:39 am

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 129):
Actually all the BA A319 are based at LHR at the moment(although you may see one at LGW now and then)

Wasn't (or hasn't) BA going to order more A319s for replacing the 737s at LGW?
 
WAH64D
Posts: 744
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:14 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:52 am

Quoting Eureka (Reply 119):
That's a non sequitur statement. Regardless of the number of runways the greater number of landings the 747-8 will afford BA combined with the delta in passengers from the existing 747-400 means a greater capacity than the A380 up to the point the terminal becomes the limiting factor. At that point the lighter airframe and more efficient engines of 747-8 will keep it ahead in terms of lower fuel burn per passenger. The wing technologies of the two planes are very similar so that likely won't be enough to pull the A380 ahead.

Where are you getting your wake vortex separation data?
 
TKV
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:59 pm

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:52 am

I have read some posts suggesting that to make the A380 more competitive and pollution free, it should be fitted with new
more state-of-the art engines. I do not know if I understood well, but if so:

1) I assume that such re-fitting is more than simply leaving the aircraft unmodified and hang other engines on it How much development cost would such modification cost ??

2) in such case, would this change be made immediately after the last already ordered and already not possible to stop present model engine is delivered ??

3) How long would it take that such new engines are deliverable ??

Related to the pollution and fuel consuption issues as above, I must note that I have not seen any comprehensive comparison of fuel consumption, at least for flights at max range and full load, between these aircraft. This question was asked and discussed in the past, but never comprehensibly answered.

Therefore I submit:

a) For the discussion sake I accept that that in proportion of the total max. weight carried by the aircraft the fuel consumtion PER TON is lower at the A388 :

b) But It is a fact that the A388 is a much larger and heavier aircraft as the B748i, about 40% on average, but the standard version offered is with only 525 seats in a luxurious configuration, nearly all the existing customers even fitted only 500 or less.

c) If an other airline operates on the same route B748i with the Boeing "typical", obviously less luxurious configuration with 467 3cl seats, against the A388 with 525 seats, the latter will carry only 12.5% more pax with a 40% larger aircraft.. Even with a LF 100% it seems to me that the fuel consumption and CASM per pax carried must be lower for the B748i (if not so, please correct me with figures).

Therefore, as long as Airbus is competing against the "typical" 467 seats of Boeing with its luxurious 525, even if this could be eventually and punctually be justified from the point of view of the airline, it will not only consume more fuel/pax, but contaminate more !!

And generally, as the cost/pax by the B748i would be lower, such airfline could offer better prices (added to higher frquency) which would be exactly the contrary situation as argued by Airbus when in the first year after 2000 they compared with the old B774 !!

I asked myself why, to avoid comparison problems as stated here, Airbus is not adding to its standard configuration an equivalent to Boeings "typical". Given the about 35% more surface available, thIs would mean about 630 pax ! But of course, the additional weight would diminish the range and make the deplaning uncomfortably longer

And a further question:
The max. range of the B748i is attained "fully loaded". This seems clear
The max. range of the A388 is indicated "at the designed load". What this means exactly ?

Again: I thank in advance for answers and corrections, but not flames !!

TKV
 
trekster
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:58 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 130):

That is what I have heard as well.
There are a small number of 319's that op out of LGW
 
Eureka
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:02 pm

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:10 am

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 131):
Where are you getting your wake vortex separation data?

The ICAO 747 approach separation standards for following Heavy/Medium/Light aircraft are 4/5/6 miles respectively. The current ICAO recommendation for the same Heavy/Medium/Light aircraft following an A380 on approach are 6/8/10 miles.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:22 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 116):
Not correct.

Not to correct to which point? You seriously think BA are going to buy 787-3? Boeing have withdrawn their EASA certification application, and EASA aren't backing down over fees, so what makes you think Boeing want to get the 787-3 EASA certified?

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 120):
I'm repeating what some members already said but here goes: orders for 773ERs, 787-3, 787-9 and 748s are likely, it's just logical.

787-3 isn't longhaul and isn't being certified in Europe.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 113):
Still, I agree that if BA takes any more 777s, they will be 777-200ERs and in small amounts (2-4).

Like the four 777-200ERs that have just pushed Boeing over the 1000 mark?

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 92):

With BA's strong Boeing-only widebody history, what sense would this make?

BA had a very strong Boeing-only history in the mid-90s and look what happened.

Quoting TKV (Reply 90):

As for your last sentence, why you say it does not fit ?? All Europe and some North Africa is within its range, and it would provide a optimal solution where B739 or A321 would be too small, with a vastly better CASM !!

BA only have 7 short haul and 14 long haul 767s. They're replacing the 14 long haul ones. The 767-300ER has a range of over twice that of the 787-3, which isn't being certified in Europe.
 
EI321
Posts: 5075
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:30 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 135):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 113):
Still, I agree that if BA takes any more 777s, they will be 777-200ERs and in small amounts (2-4).

Like the four 777-200ERs that have just pushed Boeing over the 1000 mark?

yes.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 135):
Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 92):

With BA's strong Boeing-only widebody history, what sense would this make?

BA had a very strong Boeing-only history in the mid-90s and look what happened.

This is something that I cant understand. BA showed no favourtusm towards the 737NG. We also have to cite the apparent alligence to RR.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 135):
Quoting TKV (Reply 90):

As for your last sentence, why you say it does not fit ?? All Europe and some North Africa is within its range, and it would provide a optimal solution where B739 or A321 would be too small, with a vastly better CASM !!

BA only have 7 short haul and 14 long haul 767s. They're replacing the 14 long haul ones. The 767-300ER has a range of over twice that of the 787-3, which isn't being certified in Europe.

You cant order a lane that is not being vertified in your market. I also think there is damn all chance of a 777 order apart from the 4 interim aircraft. Its down to the 788, 789, A358, A359, A3510, 748 and A380.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:33 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 136):
This is something that I cant understand. BA showed no favourtusm towards the 737NG. We also have to cite the apparent alligence to RR.

It shows that BA have not alligence and will go for whichever manufacturer gives them the better deal. Airbus need the majority of the order more than Boeing.
 
TKV
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:59 pm

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 135):
Not to correct to which point? You seriously think BA are going to buy 787-3? Boeing have withdrawn their EASA certification application, and EASA aren't backing down over fees, so what makes you think Boeing want to get the 787-3 EASA certified?

The certifying costs hurt if you must pay them without having orders, bur are peanuts if you have them !

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 135):
BA only have 7 short haul and 14 long haul 767s. They're replacing the 14 long haul ones. The 767-300ER has a range of over twice that of the 787-3, which isn't being certified in Europe

I am not saying that these are facts, but I read that BA want to expand their services within Europe and
the strong increase on several main lines will bring substitution of the present narrowbodies. And lets
not forget the pollution advantages of the up-to-date B783 over the conventional narrowbodies

TKV
 
virtual
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:14 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:45 am

Quoting HawkerCamm (Reply 126):
BA fleet 2025
30 B787-800
30 B787-900
30 A350-900/R
30 A350-1000
30 A380-800

I think you could be spot on, or pretty close anyway. Your interesting forecast raises some questions:

1) 30 x A380-800 - why so many when most people are predicting just 10 or 12?

2) 30 x B787-900 - why do you think this a/c will be selected over A350-800?

3) What about the replacement for the 7 B767-300s that are used on short-haul routes, do you think that BA will 'abuse' some of the B787-800s by using them for this role? Or do you think the A321 will become the largest a/c used on short-haul routes?
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:55 am

Quoting TKV (Reply 138):

I am not saying that these are facts, but I read that BA want to expand their services within Europe and
the strong increase on several main lines will bring substitution of the present narrowbodies. And lets
not forget the pollution advantages of the up-to-date B783 over the conventional narrowbodies

BA are replacing 14 767s, which is the same number they have longhaul aircraft, and have said all along they want longhaul aircraft. They won't get 787-3s.
 
User avatar
ER757
Posts: 4246
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:58 am

Quoting BAOPS777 (Reply 11):
OK 787 was desireble but due to the delivery dates unavailble intime to replace the 767 fleet a large order is unlikely BA will probably opt fot the A330 or A350

Pretty surprised to hear this - agree with everything else in the post. I don't necessarily disagree with this one but it does come as a surprise as I've said.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 16):
25-50 A380-800/-900´s (>2011)

Has the A380-900 even been offered for sale? If not, then it most definitely is not part of this order. I think they'll go for some 380's, but probably about 15 or so.
 
TKV
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:59 pm

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:11 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 137):
It shows that BA have not alligence and will go for whichever manufacturer gives them the better deal. Airbus need the majority of the order more than Boeing

Really you have little support for the allegiance statement. But even if so: I agree they will buy some A380, if the price is "attractive" and other reasons i stated in former posts. But only some !!
I agree with you that Airbus needs very much a sizable A380 order from a new customer !!

But why Airbus need so much the A350 order?? They have already a lot if they are comfortable that
all of these are really firm. From the cash point of view, BA would pay very small advance for an aircraft
still not completely designed. And therefore Airbus cannot afford to continue to make there :attractive" prices.! And BA has already said that they are not willing to incur risks, not only meaning not to be a formal launch customer and certainly will not be happy to put E330 in their fleet waiting for the A350 !

But of course, anything can happen !!

Quote:
Quoting HawkerCamm (Reply 126):
BA fleet 2025
30 B787-800
30 B787-900
30 A350-900/R
30 A350-1000
30 A380-800

I am baffled how this and other prognoses are being made without any shadow of objectiv support !!

The only answer I can find that this is considered as a lottery !!  Smile  Wink

TKV
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27685
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:35 am

Quoting Virtual (Reply 139):
1) 30 x A380-800 - why so many when most people are predicting just 10 or 12?

HawkerCamm's numbers assume most BA 744 routes will see traffic growth and less will see traffic decline, which would allow only using A388s and A3510s for replacement.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:10 am

Quoting TKV (Reply 142):

Really you have little support for the allegiance statement. But even if so: I agree they will buy some A380, if the price is "attractive" and other reasons i stated in former posts. But only some !!

BA ditched a generation-long partnership with Boeing to order a huge fleet of A320s. I think that shows that BA don't have allegiance to any manufacturer, and only look at cost and price.

Quoting TKV (Reply 142):
But why Airbus need so much the A350 order?? They have already a lot if they are comfortable that
all of these are really firm. From the cash point of view, BA would pay very small advance for an aircraft
still not completely designed. And therefore Airbus cannot afford to continue to make there :attractive" prices.! And BA has already said that they are not willing to incur risks, not only meaning not to be a formal launch customer and certainly will not be happy to put E330 in their fleet waiting for the A350 !

Airbus have almost exactly a third of the orders Boeing has for the 787. Yes, the programme is newer, the aircraft larger but Airbus still need A350 orders. BA wouldn't be a launch customer, they have no worries there. There's no particular risk with the A350 over the 787.

This order probably comes down to whether Willie Walsh can convince the BA board to buy Airbus. I think he can, and I think the A350 and A380 will be in the BA fleet, with maybe 787-8 at the lower end.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27685
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:47 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 144):
BA ditched a generation-long partnership with Boeing to order a huge fleet of A320s. I think that shows that BA don't have allegiance to any manufacturer, and only look at cost and price.

When did BA place their initial A320 order? Was the 737NG an option? As I understand it, BA owns a number of A320-100s, so they must have been close to a launch customer for the family...
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:50 am

Quoting Trekster (Reply 133):
There are a small number of 319's that op out of LGW

The last time BA operated a 319 out of LGW was on 16 August. One had been based there for some weeks to cover for out of service 737s. On 1 August the 319 at LGW was G-EUPK. From 2 to 6 August it was 'PO. G-EUOI replaced 'PO on 7 August and remained based at LGW until 13 Aug. It was replaced by 'OE on 14 August which in turn was replaced on 15 August by G-EUPZ. This was the aircraft that operated the most recent LGW 319 BA service, the late evening LGW-EDI flight on 16 August. This aircraft returned to LHR by operating the early morning EDI-LHR flight on 17 August.

The aircraft changeover can occur at either EDI or MAN as both of these airports are scheduled to receive night stopping aircraft from both LHR and LGW.
 
hloutweg
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:57 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:29 pm

I believe a fleet standardization of new Airbuses could be the best option for BA. With the A380 at the highest end, they could be followed with A350 from the largest to the smallest. Though still nonexistent, the gaps in between can be covered by further developments of the A380 and A350, and the A320 replacement. In the meantime, stepping up and down the size of their aircraft for particular routes to offer either more capacity or more frequencies could do the trick for BA, even better if some A330s are acquired for certain routes.


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However, they could also incorporate the 787 just below the A350 capacity wise and add a few 747s sandwiched between the A350 and A380. To me, Boeing has the lower chances than Airbus for this order.
 
KrisYUL
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:25 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:40 pm

Quoting Hloutweg (Reply 147):
To me, Boeing has the lower chances than Airbus for this order.

 checkmark 

If Boeing wins, it will be a political order designed to maintain the trans-atlantic "friendship" with the US.  bouncy 
 
Asiaflyer
Posts: 934
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:50 am

RE: BA Plans Firmed..who's Guessing

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:06 pm

Quoting KrisYUL (Reply 148):
If Boeing wins, it will be a political order designed to maintain the trans-atlantic "friendship" with the US.

I think Boeings planes are good enough to earn contracts based on own merits.
Whether BA will choose Airbus, Boeing or a mix of them doesn't really matter to me, neither to BA I think.
The only that really matters is that they make the right choice for BAs future business.
That is what the executives are hired by the board for. Not for supporting a specific supplier.
So far it looks like BA is evaluating their options very matured. Hope they will make a well balanced decision.
Good luck to BA, whatever planes they buy!

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