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mirrodie
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Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:41 pm

The only non-stops to SXM from JFK are AA, right.

What is to stop carriers like Virgin America or JetBlue to serve these routes? While I'd love to see it happen, what are the limiting factors, if any, that others are not on this route?
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elmothehobo
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:59 pm

Quoting Mirrodie (Thread starter):
The only non-stops to SXM from JFK are AA, right.

Yup, but Continental also flies EWR-SXM.

Quoting Mirrodie (Thread starter):
What is to stop carriers like Virgin America or JetBlue to serve these routes?

Nothing really, maybe getting gate/apron space in St. Maarten, and aircraft for the route.

Quoting Mirrodie (Thread starter):
While I'd love to see it happen, what are the limiting factors, if any, that others are not on this route?

Seasonality, American Airlines and Continental.
 
ORDagent
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:09 am

I'd bet that there are charter flights during the season to SXM.
 
bobnwa
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:24 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Thread starter):
What is to stop carriers like Virgin America or JetBlue to serve these routes? While I'd love to see it happen, what are the limiting factors, if any, that others are not on this route?

Why do you think there is enough business to support more carriers? Obviously the other carriers don't think that.
 
LGAtoIND
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:29 am

I could definetly see DL or B6 trying this route in the future.
 
walter747
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting LGAtoIND (Reply 4):
I could definetly see DL or B6 trying this route in the future.

B6 soon possibly since they are adding more Caribbean destinations.
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Bofredrik
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:02 am

I think that most (all?) airlines are very good to calculate
if any profit can be done on different routes. And on this
route is it maybe not so many full fare passengers...
Full fare passengers is a important base for any route
if you are a airline like AA, DL or other large airlines.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:19 pm

Quoting LGAtoIND (Reply 4):
I could definately see DL or B6 trying this route in the future.

DL could very easily decide to operate JFK-SXM depending upon how well ATL-SXM is doing load wise at least seasonably in the not to distant future. It also depends upon the availability of any 752s or 738s to do the route as well. Does B6 even operate to SXM?
AA has had the JFK-Caribbean market for a longer period than DL. But like B6, DL is looking for expansion opportunities to the region from the east coast as well. Some have worked and some have not.
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Flighty
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:48 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 7):
DL could very easily decide to operate JFK-SXM

Yes.

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 5):
B6 soon possibly since they are adding more Caribbean destinations.

B6 may have trouble getting their A320s up and out of SXM, then all the way back to JFK. The 757 is a better bet. Still, carriers do fly 738 there (SY) so maybe it is possible for JetBlue.
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:02 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 8):
B6 may have trouble getting their A320s up and out of SXM

Jet Blue flew a couple of charters this past winter from HPN to SXM on the A320.

[Edited 2007-08-28 07:03:04]
No Vueling No Party
 
mirrodie
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:39 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 3):
Why do you think there is enough business to support more carriers?

I didn't imply that. I am simply asking the question about the subject.

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 9):
Jet Blue flew a couple of charters this past winter from HPN to SXM on the A320.

So then, B6 may be able to do it.
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NASBWI
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:57 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 10):
So then, B6 may be able to do it.

It all depends on a few factors, most of which were already covered in earlier responses. A few Caribbean destinations are aimed more at the tourist market rather than VFR traffic (SDQ/STI/SJU/BQN/PAP, etc). CUN, AUA, NAS, and SXM (and even STT) - at least from JFK, cater more to tourists (of all the NAS and CUN flights I've worked, only a handful of customers were locals). And it almost goes without saying that tourist traffic is relatively seasonal. As it stands, B6 is the only airline offering direct JFK-NAS service (DL ended their competing flight a couple years ago). However, NAS is served by multiple airlines from the NY area (EWR, LGA, and JFK). It could be that SXM is just a smaller market for tourists (further away, a more expensive vacation, etc). Therefore, the market may not warrant more seats than are already available from NYC. The question isn't whether another airline could do it, because quite a few already have. It's whether or not they should do it  wink .
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md90fan
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:25 am

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 11):
And it almost goes without saying that tourist traffic is relatively seasonal

Nassau traffic is year-round unlike many other locales where the demand flunctuates by season, and on top of that, NAS is relatively high-yielding.

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 11):
As it stands, B6 is the only airline offering direct JFK-NAS service (DL ended their competing flight a couple years ago).

Haha, I remember back in '04 Song started the flight to compete with B6, and B6 gave them a black eye! It had Song's system-wide lowest load factors  box  fever 

Fast forward to the future--> B6 is the largest carrier doing NYC-Bahamas with 3x daily flights and no competition  wink 

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 7):
DL is looking for expansion opportunities to the region from the east coast as well. Some have worked and some have not.

Yes, JFK has been a majour focus for Dela Caribbean operations, and they seem to have been generally successful except for their D.R flights which go out with horrible loads most of the time (except holidays-duh). JFK has the advantage of being alot more economically important in the Caribbean world and it plays host to significant Dominican, Puerto Rican Jamaicans, and Eastern Caribbean populations.
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mirrodie
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:08 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 12):
Fast forward to the future--> B6 is the largest carrier doing NYC-Bahamas with 3x daily flights and no competition

Well that is sort of my question. AA is the only one doing JFK-SXM non-stop. Nice monoploy they each have. I'm surprised to see no other carriers challenge them yet.

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 12):
Yes, JFK has been a majour focus for Dela Caribbean operations, and they seem to have been generally successful except for their D.R flights which go out with horrible loads most of the time (except holidays-duh). JFK has the advantage of being alot more economically important in the Caribbean world and it plays host to significant Dominican, Puerto Rican Jamaicans, and Eastern Caribbean populations.
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md90fan
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:27 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 13):
Well that is sort of my question. AA is the only one doing JFK-SXM non-stop. Nice monoploy they each have. I'm surprised to see no other carriers challenge them yet.

Regarding B6 JFK-SXM, no doubt you'll see in in the next 18-24 months, they most likely have bigger fish to fry, especially with reduced numbers of aircraft coming online, increased competition, and to a lesser extent negative PR.

NYC-NAS isn't served only by B6, there is US (73S/A32S) and Delta from LGA (MD-88) and CO from EWR (738/ERJ).

IMO, an even worse monopoly than the aforementioned is AA's JFK-PAP service, which is very high-yielding and faces no competition (AA 837 IIRC).
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Mir
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:53 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 13):
Well that is sort of my question. AA is the only one doing JFK-SXM non-stop. Nice monoploy they each have. I'm surprised to see no other carriers challenge them yet.

I'd consider CO's EWR-SXM a challenge.

-Mir
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:55 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 12):
Yes, JFK has been a majour focus for Delta Caribbean operations, and they seem to have been generally successful except for their D.R flights which go out with horrible loads most of the time (except holidays-duh). JFK has the advantage of being alot more economically important in the Caribbean world and it plays host to significant Dominican, Puerto Rican Jamaicans, and Eastern Caribbean populations.

The other big population center for people of ethnic Caribbean nationality origin is south Florida, and AA also has a huge monopoly on this one with their hub in MIA. DL has tried as have US and Spirit continuing to compete with this out of FLL. DL might do wise to take a closer look as to what is really working in the greater Caribbean region out of ATL, and then move the routes that are likely to work better out of JFK to NYC. Some can or should remain at ATL & CVG and to a lesser extent seasonally adjusted to their remaining hubs at LAX (SJU service) or SLC (CUN, CZM).
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AA767400
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:30 am

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 11):
A few Caribbean destinations are aimed more at the tourist market rather than VFR traffic (SDQ/STI/SJU/BQN/PAP, etc

SJU is not as VFR as most think. SJU has a larger amount of connecting passengers to other destinations. The VFR destinations in Puerto Rico are BQN and PSE. The only flights that have mostly VFR are the later day flights, and even then people choose to overnight in SJU for the cruises the next few days. We are talking cruise ship passengers and AA/AE connecting passengers. That is a big bulk of the tourist market.
"The low fares airline."
 
skyyblue
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:55 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 8):
B6 may have trouble getting their A320s up and out of SXM, then all the way back to JFK. The 757 is a better bet. Still, carriers do fly 738 there (SY) so maybe it is possible for JetBlue.

I don't think It would be too much trouble. We go further with our 320s to AUA. The little new expansion expected out of JFK next year is supposedly going to be focused on the Caribbean so fingers crossed.
 
kl911
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:01 pm

Notice that the only European carriers flying non-stop to SXM are KL and AF, while SXM is European territry.. thats sad and very expensive for us to go there. ( I didn't count the holiday charters.. )
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Non-stop JFK-SXM, Why Only AA?

Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:00 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 19):
Notice that the only European carriers flying non-stop to SXM are KL and AF, while SXM is European territry.. thats sad and very expensive for us to go there. ( I didn't count the holiday charters.. )

Even for North Americans it is cheaper for Canadians because of the holiday charters. But even still you can get three weeks in the D.R. for about the price of one at St Maarten.
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