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LAXintl
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Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:44 am

Quote:
Republic Amends Delta, UAL Agreements
Tuesday August 28
Republic to Replace 16 Delta Planes, Add 10 to United's Fleet

NEW YORK (AP) -- Regional air carrier Republic Airways Holdings Inc. amended services agreements with Delta Air Lines Inc. and UAL Corp. regarding aircraft for each carrier.

Republic will replace 16 of Delta's 70-seat Embraer 170 aircraft with 76-seat Embraer 175s during the second half of 2008 and first quarter of 2009. The planes are part of the Delta Connection fleet. It will also add 10 70-seat Embraer 170s to UAL's United Express-branded fleet.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070828/republic_airways_contracts.html?.v=1
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RL757PVD
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:48 am

Are these new E175's or are they comming from US or were they origionally planned for US?
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floridaflyboy
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:49 am

Nice. This will be awesome! Can't wait to fly the 175 with DL. I am surprised it adds only 6 seats, though.
Good goes around!
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:51 am

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 2):
Nice. This will be awesome! Can't wait to fly the 175 with DL. I am surprised it adds only 6 seats, though.

DCI is limited to 76 seats due to scope.
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jbmitt
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:51 am

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 2):
Nice. This will be awesome! Can't wait to fly the 175 with DL. I am surprised it adds only 6 seats, though.

The current delta connection agreement only allows regionals to operate with 76 seats. All of the new CRJ-900s are in a similar configuration.
 
loggat
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:58 am

These are new aircraft to Republic Airways (not in any way related to the US Airways operation). It is currently not known the destination of the remaining 6 170's being pulled from the DL system. I'm sure there is a plan that none of us know about.
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toltommy
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:02 am

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 2):
I am surprised it adds only 6 seats, though.

Compass will be flying the E175 in a 76 seat config for NWA. It could hold more seats in an all coach config, but scope gets in the way. Besides, I think the addition of FC seats on regionals in general is a good thing. Makes the product more attractive to frequent flyers.
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skibum9
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:14 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 6):
Compass will be flying the E175 in a 76 seat config for NWA. It could hold more seats in an all coach config, but scope gets in the way.

Or you could say that scope protects mainline flying as opposed to scope gets in the way.
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kingcavalier
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:37 am

Will there be a F class configuration on the DL E175's? It says it will only have 76 seats, and that's what RW has on the E170's it flies for Frontier.
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OBSMGR
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 8):
Will there be a F class configuration on the DL E175's? It says it will only have 76 seats, and that's what RW has on the E170's it flies for Frontier.

The aircraft will be configured as 12 in FC and 64 in YC.
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jbmitt
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:44 am

Yes, there will be F class, the current 170's have 6 F seats. The CRJ-900 have 10 F, and are rumored to have 12 after a reconfiguration. According to A.net "Embraer is also building the Embraer 175, stretched by 1.77m (5ft 10in) over the Embraer 170." There is definently room, to answer your question.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:57 am

Add to the news piece,

The United 10 E-170s are expected to be placed into service between 4Q2008 and 1Q2009.
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Transpac787
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 8):
Will there be a F class configuration on the DL E175's? It says it will only have 76 seats, and that's what RW has on the E170's it flies for Frontier.

The E170's flying for Frontier have F-class seats, if that's what you're asking. I have no idea if they sell them as F-class or not, but there is a 6-seat F cabin.
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:20 am

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 7):
Or you could say that scope protects mainline flying as opposed to scope gets in the way.

Absolutely. Or even better yet, 'scope prevents management from outsourcing all the flying'.

DeltaGuy
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indywa
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:08 am

Well it's nice to see my airline FINALLY getting a slice of the additional flying. I LOVE our planes and it definately shows with our passengers. Not a trip goes by without comments on how nice the planes are, or people asking how new they are. I always make sure to check when someone asks. Anyway, this is exciting news for me...!
 
ATWZW170
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:04 am

Just goes to show you that when you take a chance on a nice plane your major carrier partners will take notice....good for Republic. I just wish some of their crews were more customer focused -- but then again that can be said about any carrier.
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ytib
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:54 am

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 12):
The E170's flying for Frontier have F-class seats, if that's what you're asking. I have no idea if they sell them as F-class or not, but there is a 6-seat F cabin.

These are scheduled to be phased out. Elite members of the FF program are usually assigned these seats.
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DeltaAVL
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:04 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 3):
DCI is limited to 76 seats due to scope.

Okay, what if an ERJ170 wanted to become mainline? Would they allow a 70 seat plane flying for DL mainline?
 
skibum9
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:29 pm

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 17):
Okay, what if an ERJ170 wanted to become mainline? Would they allow a 70 seat plane flying for DL mainline?

Very doubtful. The economics would not work out. Crew costs alone for using mainline pilots would make it prohibitive. One of the reasons that it is outsourced to regionals is that pilots have low payscales at the regionals.

To give you an example, from Airline Pilot Central, a mainline pilot at DL on the MD88 (DL's smallest plane) makes $49 an hour first year as an FO and $126 as a captain. This increases to $84 an hour for an FO and $130 for a captain by the 5th year. (This does not count per diems, etc.). At Republic, a first year FO on the E170 makes $23 an hour and the captain makes $57 an hour, which increases to $36 an hour for the FO and $69 for the captain by the 5th year.

There is no way that DL would pay mainline payscale for a 70 seater and there is no way that DALPA would allow mainline payscale to be reduced to the level that is being paid at the regionals. Thus is the reason for scope clauses. At one point DALPA had other clauses in their contract that put a maximum on the number of jets that could be deployed at the regionals to prevent outsourcing of mainline flying to the regionals and to put a barrier on regional fleet growth. However, IIRC, most of those clauses have been stripped. So net net....you will never see mainline flying an E170.
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FlyPNS1
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:04 am

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 18):
This increases to $84 an hour for an FO and $130 for a captain by the 5th year. (This does not count per diems, etc.). At Republic, a first year FO on the E170 makes $23 an hour and the captain makes $57 an hour, which increases to $36 an hour for the FO and $69 for the captain by the 5th year.

The funny thing is that if you do the math on a per seat basis, the costs aren't all that different.

5th yr CA on E170: $69/hr divided by 70 seats = $0.99 captain's cost per hour per seat
5th yr CA on MD88: $130/hr divided by 142 seats = $0.92 captain cost per hour per seat

Granted this doesn't take into consideration a lot of other costs (benefits, work rules, etc) which can shift the equation a bit. But the bottomline is that after all the cuts taken by mainline, the costs on a per seat basis with mainline vs regional are pretty competitive.

With that said, I do agree with you that we'll never see a 70 or 76 seater at DL mainline. The DL pilot's contract does still have restrictions on the number of 70/76 seaters that can be operated. The total can't exceed 200. There's also another restriction tied to the 76 seater. DL is initially allowed 30 76 seat aircraft. Growth beyond that requires growth in the mainline fleet (which is happening). Each growth mainline plane allows for 3 more 76 seaters.
 
Delta787
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:31 am

How many E175s will be flying for Delta Connection? I cant seem to find a number anywhere.
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ChicagoFlyer
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:01 am

One obvious question: Are 10 DL E170s going to transition in UA fleet, or is RP (or, more likely, S5) buying new ones?
 
loggat
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting Delta787 (Reply 20):
How many E175s will be flying for Delta Connection? I cant seem to find a number anywhere.

16, see thread starter's post

Quoting ChicagoFlyer (Reply 21):
One obvious question: Are 10 DL E170s going to transition in UA fleet, or is RP (or, more likely, S5) buying new ones?

Again, see thread starter's post

However, to fix your confusion... RP is Chautauqua Airlines, RW is Republic Airlines, S5 is Shuttle America. All 3 of these airlines are owned and operated by 1 single entity - Republic Airways Holdings (RAH). There is 1 pilot seniority list, 1 flight attendant seniority list, and 1 upper management.

Any plane that is purchased, is purchased by RAH and allocated to a certificate (RP, RW, or S5). Interchange of airplanes between certificates is possible, as in the case of the DL and UA spares that were on the S5 certificate are now flying for F9 on the RW certificate.

As it relates to this news item, 10 of the 170's being removed from the DL system, are going to be repainted in UA colors and flown for them.
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LGA777
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:45 am

Slightly off topic but I understand 5 of the Repubic 170's operated for US are to be transferred to the F9 operation and they will be replaced at US by new E-175's. Anyone with info as to when and which aircraft are going feel free to post?

Regards

LGA777
 
FutureFO
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:47 am

Some of the E70's on the US side are going to go to F9. They are being reconfigured to 76 seats. Also the F9 airplanes are being reconfigured to 1 class 76 seats.
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DeltaAVL
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:15 am

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 18):
There is no way that DL would pay mainline payscale for a 70 seater and there is no way that DALPA would allow mainline payscale to be reduced to the level that is being paid at the regionals.

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks for the answer.  Smile
 
N1120A
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:32 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 6):
It could hold more seats in an all coach config, but scope gets in the way.

80 is what I believe they ran for US

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 7):

Or you could say that scope protects mainline flying as opposed to scope gets in the way.

Yep

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 18):

Very doubtful. The economics would not work out. Crew costs alone for using mainline pilots would make it prohibitive. One of the reasons that it is outsourced to regionals is that pilots have low payscales at the regionals.

That is, however, only one factor. Remember too that mainline not only pays the costs of operation, but also subsidizes the profit margins for the regional. That means you end up with higher costs.

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 17):

Okay, what if an ERJ170 wanted to become mainline? Would they allow a 70 seat plane flying for DL mainline?

I don't think the airplane itself cares where it flies  Wink

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 18):
So net net....you will never see mainline flying an E170.

Well, there have been mainline 70-80 seaters in the past.
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FutureFO
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:57 pm

On the US side we operate the E170 in a 72 and 76 seat configuration. The 175 as an 86 seater. The E190 operated my mainline is 99 seats.
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Web
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:02 pm

So basically F9 and UA are getting all the 170s and DL and US are getting all the 175s, correct? Or is US still going to use a mix of 170s and 175s?
 
loggat
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:41 pm

US will be operating a mix of 170's and 175's (38 175's total). F9 will be operating just 170's (the 6 leftover planes being removed from the DL operation are going to the F9 operation). DL will be 175's only(16 total), and UA will be 170's only (38 total).
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bucky707
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RE: Republic Swaps Planes For DL, Adds At UA

Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:53 pm

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 18):
There is no way that DL would pay mainline payscale for a 70 seater and there is no way that DALPA would allow mainline payscale to be reduced to the level that is being paid at the regionals.

in our current contract, DALPA has pay rates for the EMB-190. The rate for the 190 is less than what some regionals pay for their 70 and 76 seaters.

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