In general I preffer the seating layout on 767 / Airbii widebodies as that middle bank of 5 can be a nightmare as even though you might have an aisle seat you have three people that need to crawl over you to get up for the lav.
I've never flown on the CO 777 but the seating looks so much better as 3-3-3 avoids the double middle seats. Do other carriers have that layout. I really dont get why AA / UA etc use that 2-5-2 layout.
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- Slovacek747
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RE: CO 777 Seating In Y
AA uses the 3-3-3 layout and I'd say 95% of airlines use the 3-3-3 layout. I've only heard of a few carriers that use the 2-5-2 like United and I can't remember who they are.
Slovacek747
Slovacek747
RE: CO 777 Seating In Y
2-5-2 means only 1person has to squeeze past 2 people to get in/out, 4 people have to climb over 1 and 4 are on the aisle.
3-3-3 means 2 people have to clamber over 2, 3 have only 1 person to disturb and 4 are on the aisle.
Plus - in 2-5-2 the middle person has a choice of which people they disturb.
So there's some sense to it. I would just hate being the piggy in the middle!
3-3-3 means 2 people have to clamber over 2, 3 have only 1 person to disturb and 4 are on the aisle.
Plus - in 2-5-2 the middle person has a choice of which people they disturb.
So there's some sense to it. I would just hate being the piggy in the middle!
RE: CO 777 Seating In Y
| Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 1): AA uses the 3-3-3 layout and I'd say 95% of airlines use the 3-3-3 layout. I've only heard of a few carriers that use the 2-5-2 like United and I can't remember who they are. |
No, American is 2-5-2 like United. Delta and Continental are both 3-3-3, as are most other carriers.With 3-3-3 you don't have to worry about being in the middle surrounded by 2 people on either side, but you do have to deal with a "double excuse-me" window seat. As long as I'm not in one of the 3 middle seats on a UA or AA 777, I'd probably prefer this layout as its better for couples traveling together and window there's no middle seats on the exterior side of the aisle; window seats are more "desirable" with this configuration.
RE: CO 777 Seating In Y
| Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 1): AA uses the 3-3-3 layout |
AA doess, and has always had the 2-5-2 layout.
http://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do?...lanes/boeing777AtlanticSeating.jsp
RE: CO 777 Seating In Y
Actually, DL used to have the 2-5-2 layout, but switched to 3-3-3 somewhere around late 2001 or early 2002.
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- flydreamliner
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RE: CO 777 Seating In Y
| Quoting 747fan (Reply 5): Actually, DL used to have the 2-5-2 layout, but switched to 3-3-3 somewhere around late 2001 or early 2002. |
This confuses me. While I understand Boeing's whole pitch that in 3-3-3, the plane can get to 2/3 full before anyone sits in a middle seat or next to anyone else, but when was the last time you were on a longhaul flight that wasn't full, or awfully close? I'm not aware of many 2/3 full 777 flying around.
In 2-5-2, only 1 person is more than 1 seat away from the aisle, in 3-3-3, there are 2.
A downside of 2-5-2 is because 2 seats are not that wide, if the airline places its lavatories outside of the aisles instead of in between them, you only have a space 2 seat widths wide, fairly compact, whereas 3-3-3 offers a space 3 seat widths to place a larger lav.
Strangely, Korean uses 2-5-2 on its 777-300 fleet but 3-3-3 on its 777-200ER fleet. I believe Malaysia also uses 2-5-2. I believe while Egyptian used to be 2-4-3 on their 777s, they are/have changed those over to be 3-3-3. Oddly enough, I do not know of any airline that used 3-3-3 on its DC-10, MD-11, or L-1011 fleets, all of which were 9-abreast.
In any event, 2-5-2 is strongly my preference, so long as i'm not in that middle seat.
I was initially excited about A380 when there were rumors of 3 aisles in main deck coach. Sadly, I'm sure I'll someday get to ride on one with EK that is like, 11 abreast and can enjoy something like 3-5-3.
RE: CO 777 Seating In Y
| Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6): I believe while Egyptian used to be 2-4-3 on their 777s |
Why don't more carriers use this layout? Is it because of balance? Then there would be only one "double excuse me" window seat, and every non-aisle seat would only be one seat from the aisle. This layout seems to offer the least amount of undesirable seats. But I'm sure the airlines have done their research, and they have chosen what works best for them.
RE: CO 777 Seating In Y
| Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6): Oddly enough, I do not know of any airline that used 3-3-3 on its DC-10, MD-11, or L-1011 fleets, all of which were 9-abreast |
Yeah, I don't think anyone used 3-3-3 on those planes, but KLM actually uses 2-4-3 on their MD-11's. Finnair on their MD-11's uses 3-4-3.
2-4-3 on a 777 does seem like a logical layout that only Egyptair ever adapted. Maybe it wasn't/isn't widely used to the balance issues that were mentioned, but you only have one seat that's 2 seats away from the aisle. Actually, AA (and a few other carriers IIRC) uses this layout intially on their 747's back in the 1970's!
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- TreeHillRavens
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RE: CO 777 Seating In Y
| Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6): I do not know of any airline that used 3-3-3 on its DC-10, MD-11, or L-1011 fleets, all of which were 9-abreast. |
KL is the only M11 operator with 3-3-3 layout. KL M11 were originally configured in 2-4-3.
| Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6): Strangely, Korean uses 2-5-2 on its 777-300 fleet but 3-3-3 on its 777-200ER fleet. |
KE old 772 were all configured in 2-5-2. Just like MH, AA & UA. KE reconfigured all of their existing 772 to 3-3-3 in Y when they introduced the new inflight products.
While 3-3-3 is better on the eyes (more uniform). I still prefer 2-5-2.
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- Amazonphil
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- calpsafltskeds
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RE: CO 777 Seating In Y
While a little off-center, the 2-4-3 layout gives better seating pairing for groups of two, three or four with only one seat that is two away from the aisle. I don't know if any 777 operators use this, but it came pretty standard on the original 747.
RE: CO 777 Seating In Y
We go over this ever 3-6 months. In 3-3-3, while you have more "double excuse me" seats, they are PREFERED seats. People who like windows will take windows REGARDLESS of the layout of the seats next to them. You've taken a "bad" thing and given it a huge perk that makes people want to choose it. The middle of 5 seats on a capacity widebody has exactly zero redeeming features to it at all. No one ever wants that seat on a full airplane, and no one is happy to get stuck with it. The "worst" seat in 3-3-3 is the middle seats on the outside columns, where you are still only one seat away from the aisle and one seat away from a window.
This is simple when you look at the overall comfort of each and every seat in the plane, instead of the maximum comfort you can get in you favorite seat should you get first choice.
This is simple when you look at the overall comfort of each and every seat in the plane, instead of the maximum comfort you can get in you favorite seat should you get first choice.
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- Viscount724
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RE: CO 777 Seating In Y
| Quoting 747fan (Reply 8): Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6): Oddly enough, I do not know of any airline that used 3-3-3 on its DC-10, MD-11, or L-1011 fleets, all of which were 9-abreast Yeah, I don't think anyone used 3-3-3 on those planes, but KLM actually uses 2-4-3 on their MD-11's. Finnair on their MD-11's uses 3-4-3. |
KL's MD-11 layout was 3-4-2 (going from left to right as you face forward). However KL is switching to 3-3-3. Not sure if that change has been completed.. If not mistaken, a few other MD-11 operators in the past were also 3-3-3.
Also, Finnair is only 10-abreast (3-4-3) in the rear economy class cabin. The somewhat smaller forward Y class cabin is 9-abreast (3-3-3).
RE: CO 777 Seating In Y
How easy is it to convert say a 2-5-2 aircraft to a 3-3-3?
I know personally, regardless of how many people I have to climb over, the middle seat on a 2-5-2 is exponentially worse as far as claustraphobia goes than a window seat on a 3-3-3.
How do F/A's feel about the comparison?
I know personally, regardless of how many people I have to climb over, the middle seat on a 2-5-2 is exponentially worse as far as claustraphobia goes than a window seat on a 3-3-3.
How do F/A's feel about the comparison?
RE: CO 777 Seating In Y
| Quoting Lesismore (Reply 7): Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 6): I believe while Egyptian used to be 2-4-3 on their 777s Why don't more carriers use this layout? Is it because of balance? |
Cost, perhaps; it's probably easiest to do 3-3-3, as you buy seats in groups of 3, and need only 3 AVOD boxes per row.
With 2-5-2 it's more complicated, and 3-4-2 it's even worse. Perhaps someone else (who actually knows about this) can elaborate.
RE: CO 777 Seating In Y
Thanks for the input. I've been stuck in the "double excuse me" seat on AA. As I was traveling alone it really was a mess because I had to be a bit more polite to my neighbors as at least with a traveling companion you can be a little less careful about leaning towards the next person to you.
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