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gothamspotter
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10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:35 am

Americans practically take safe commercial flight for granted these days: out of over 50 million takeoffs over the past five years, there has been only one fatal crash (Comair flight 5191). It wasn't always this way... much of the technology that makes air travel so extraordinarily safe today has come as a direct result of fatal accidents of the past. Popular Mechanics lists eight crashes and two emergency landings whose influence is felt—for the good—each time you step on a plane.

[Edited 2007-08-30 20:35:29]
 
flyf15
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:45 am

Very interesting article, thanks for posting it.

One comment I do have though, it is very unfortunate that many times, it requires a loss of life to cause change. Although some of these were unknown, there are many problems in aviation where the FAA simply looks the other way with the attitude that "it would cost too much to fix, and it hasn't killed anyone yet..."
 
sebring
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:53 am

Interesting that the publication seems to believe that no crash that didn't involve US carriers, US airspace, or a US origin/destination contributed to the improvement in air safety. I would also suggest that there have been a number of crashes (Arrow Air/ Gander; Air Ontario, Dryden; Air Florida; DCA) involving de-icing or lack thereof that have had a huge impact on the handling of aircraft in conditions exposed to wing contamination by ice. There have been significant changes in fuel handling, de-icing (including large capital investments in advanced de-icing equipment) and standard operating procedures to deal with icing issues.
 
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SEPilot
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 1):
Very interesting article, thanks for posting it.

Ditto.
A few points: The article states that there have been no further collisions between airliners; this is not true. A UA DC-8 collided with a TWA Connie over New York in 1960; the DC-8 was traveling twice as fast as it should have been and overflew its holding clearance.
During the 60's several 727's crashed short of landing-leading to a new understanding of the lack of quick response of jet engines, especially when "low and slow."
There were also a series of crashes of PA 707's in the pacific that were largely caused by the "Skygods" concept (hat tip to the book of the same name by Robert Gandt) that, combined with Tenerife helped with the drive to CRM. It was not just the DC-8 crash that led to it.
The real lesson from TWA 800 is avoid ground-to-air missiles.  duck 
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
ltbewr
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:07 am

One of the most important crashes (or actually a series of them) that changed Aviation were the British Comet ones in the early 1950's. They led to important and new design and engineering rules to prevent fatague from pressurization and designs of components that could trigger it. It is unfortunate that Popular Mechanics used only accidents involving the USA in some way and exclude non-USA involved ones like the Comet ones.
 
globeex
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:21 am

I have to say, somehow I think 9/11 misses. The crash of the two airliners into the WTC changed a lot, concerning aviation apart from a lot of other things.

GlobeEx
As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks.
 
airtran717
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:56 am

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 1):
the FAA simply looks the other way with the attitude that "it would cost too much to fix, and it hasn't killed anyone yet..."

Precisely. The NTSB had been recommending to the FAA that fire suppression systems be installed in the cargo holds of planes for nearly a decade before VJ592 went down in the Everglades. It took only 110 lives that time, to get the FAA to sit up and pay attention that time...
 
bok269
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:01 am

A bit of a coincidence surrounding flight number 191. AA, DL, OH. All had flight 191 crash.
"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:04 am

I thin kteh Dec 16, 1960 collision of a UA DC-8 and TWA Connie should have been there. Cuz of that crash there are speed limits below 10,000 ft
 
kaitak
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:10 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 3):
The real lesson from TWA 800 is avoid ground-to-air missiles

If we learned anything from the events surrounding TWA 800, it was the cost and delay caused by conspiracy theories; frankly, I find it so difficult for people to even think this, given that every night, for the past 40-50 years, airliners have taken off from JFK/Idlewild, heading east towards Europe and suddenly people think that the Navy would have shot an aircraft down? Come on!

I think the answer is that virtually all aircraft crashes have contributed in some way, as long as there is a willingness to face up to the issues raised. The real concern I would have is that in some countries, due to national pride (and perhaps due to a fear of litigation), the real cause can be obscured and that is a far bigger danger to aviation.

Having said that, my votes go to the Eastern 727, JFK, 1975, which led us to a greater understanding of the damage that could be done by windshear, thanks largely to the work of Dr. Ted Fujita. That said, windshear also led to crashes at New Orleans (PA 727) and Dallas (Delta L1011).
 
otnysaslhr
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:11 am

How about the BEA Elizabethan crash at Munich?
This lead to the investigation into the effects of runway contamination by snow/slush which caused the crash by increasing drag on the undercarriage.
A number of tests were carried out by the Royal Aircraft Establishment at Bedford using a Dan-Air Ambassador (Elizabethan) aircraft in the late 60's/ early 70's. Over a week of high speed taxi trials with the aircraft travelling in troughs filled with crushed ice and calculations regarding acceleration and drag were made. These helped in the understanding the effects on aircraft take-off performance of such contamination.
oTny
 
JGPH1A
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:12 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 3):
A few points: The article states that there have been no further collisions between airliners; this is not true. A UA DC-8 collided with a TWA Connie over New York in 1960; the DC-8 was traveling twice as fast as it should have been and overflew its holding clearance.

There was the midair collision in 1973 between an Iberia DC-9 and a Spantax CV990 over Nantes, France. Caused by pilot and ATC error - French civilian ATC was on strike, so military controllers were in charge. One of the aircraft was instructed to descend, but descened too late, anyway the 2 hit, the DC-9 managed to land but the CV990 disintegrated. My grandmother was on the CV990.

 Sad
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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:13 am

I found it odd that BOTH September 11th and the Tenerife Collision were left off the list.  confused 

Did UA 232 have any noticeable impact on the aviation industry following the event?
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
baron95
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:19 am

Thanks for posting. This is by far and away thi greatest achievement in civil aviation.

All those people that are nostalgic and miss the so called "golden age" of aviation should remember that, if things were as they were then with the traffic we have now, we'd be seeing two fatal crashes a week.

I think we are leaving in the tru golden age of aviation. Safe, efficient (innexpensive), comfortable (if you play for J and F) air transportation. Tomorrow comes the platinum age. Even safer with cooler airplane types (77W, 787, 748i, A380/350, etc).
Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
 
Boeing727flyer
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:23 am

I would add a BEA Trident and an Inex Adria Avioproment DC-9 over Zagreb and the Hijacking and then blown up aircraft in the Jordan desert - BOAC VC-10, Swissair DC-8 and a TWA B707 I think.
Hail the mighty Boeing 727
 
MIT787
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:35 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 3):
The real lesson from TWA 800 is avoid ground-to-air missiles.

Here is an even better lesson...You can not have a conspiracy involving over 400 people and expect not one person to say a thing. This is the craziest conspiracy theory yet. Do you really believe over 400 people witnessed innocent civilians murdered and nobody said a word? Sorry, but I believe most people have more compassion than that.
 
MaidensGator
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 3):
The article states that there have been no further collisions between airliners; this is not true. A UA DC-8 collided with a TWA Connie over New York in 1960

Actually, the article states "There hasn�t been a collision between two airliners in the United States in 47 years," which refers to the crash you cite.... The 1956 crash over the Grand Canyon occurred 51 years ago...
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
na
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:44 am

10 Plane Crashes That Changed AMERICAN Aviation

Quoting GlobeEx (Reply 5):
I have to say, somehow I think 9/11 misses. The crash of the two airliners into the WTC changed a lot, concerning aviation apart from a lot of other things.

Absolutely right.

Overall this list is flawed.
 
wolbo
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting NA (Reply 17):
10 Plane Crashes That Changed AMERICAN Aviation

Actually it's 10 Plane Crashes in AMERICA That Changed AMERICAN Aviation. I guess if you die in an American accident there is at least the small comfort of knowing that you may have aided the cause of aviation safety. Apparently no such luck for us poor furuners. Gotta love America!  Big grin
 
Eirules
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:02 am

Interesting article. And while I understand that it is focussed on America, I think its fair to say that every crash in the world has helped to raise air safety is some way, one of the few good things to come out of such a tragic event. Good article nonetheless
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contrails
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:05 am

The Cutter crash isn't listed, and that was an important crash back in the 30's. I'll look up the information and post it later. Cutter was a U.S. Senator who died in a crash back in the 30's.
Flying Colors Forever!
 
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SEPilot
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:13 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 9):
If we learned anything from the events surrounding TWA 800, it was the cost and delay caused by conspiracy theories; frankly, I find it so difficult for people to even think this, given that every night, for the past 40-50 years, airliners have taken off from JFK/Idlewild, heading east towards Europe and suddenly people think that the Navy would have shot an aircraft down? Come on!

I'm sure this has been hashed to death, but there are questions about this crash that the official explanation does not answer. Let me say that I am not a conspiracy theory buff; I did have many questions about JFK's assassination (and still have some about RFK's) but ultimately came to the conclusion that Oswald did in fact act alone, primarily because it became obvious that no mobster or CIA operative in his right mind would have trusted him to deliver the mail; he was such a flake. I have questions about TWA 800 primarily because of the number of witnesses that are sure that they saw a missile track headed toward the plane BEFORE it exploded. I also had a friend who was a TV newscaster who told me that he knew for a fact that they had a separate hangar where some of the parts of the wreck were that nobody was allowed access to; that in fact they did know that it was a missile that brought it down, and they knew what type of missile and it was in fact being covered up. But I have no first-hand knowledge of any of this, so I can only have doubts. I do not know that the official explanation is wrong; but I am not convinced it is right. Unfortunately that is the way it is with many events. There certainly is the factor that the more people that know about an event that is supposed to be kept secret the less chance that it will be, and this is the biggest reason to doubt grand conspiracy theories (three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead.)
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
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teme82
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 12):
I found it odd that BOTH September 11th and the Tenerife Collision were left off the list.

I agree! At least for the Tenerife part!
Flying high and low
 
Viscount724
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting Boeing727flyer (Reply 14):
and the Hijacking and then blown up aircraft in the Jordan desert - BOAC VC-10, Swissair DC-8 and a TWA B707 I think.

And the Pan Am 747 that was hijacked after takeoff from AMS for JFK as part of those September 1970 coordinated hijackings, except the 747 wound up at CAI where it was also blown up, fortunately after the passengers/crew had been released. That was the first 747 hull loss. The hijacking of the 5th aircraft involved, an LY 707 also soon after takeoff from AMS for JFK, failed after an LY sky marshal shot and killed one of the hijackers and the second hijacker (female) was overpowered and the flight made an emergency landing at LHR.

That incident had a lot to do with the subsequent introduction of airport security checks.
 
globeex
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:18 am

Quoting Wolbo (Reply 18):
Actually it's 10 Plane Crashes in AMERICA That Changed AMERICAN Aviation.

Well, now as you say it, I can see how New York isn't in america. (i know that wasn't your point)

GlobeEx
As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks.
 
brilondon
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:20 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 3):
The real lesson from TWA 800 is avoid ground-to-air missiles.

Are you suggesting that there is more to the TWA 800 explosion then we have been led to believe.  cheeky 
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
SirDeath
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:21 am

JAL 123 saved a lot of lives in the form of UAL 232. Capt. Denny Fitch was so intreagued by the concept of thrust based control (what the JAL 123 pilots tried deperately but ultimately unsuccessfully to use to control their ship) he practiced it in the simulator. He just happened to be deadheading of UAL 232 and his extra effort and innate sense of duty turned him into a hero. I don't know why it hasn't been implemented further in commercial circles, but with FADEC, I know MD did tests on an MD-11 and landed her with NO hydrolics many times using computerised thrust based controls. This is used in military aircraft now. It also saved lives in the when DHL A300 that was hit by AA fire over BGW landed intact (the first ship to do so without computer assistance). So JAL 123 has saved SCORES of lives from that issue, and better inspections of repairs, another outcome, saved countless lives too. The pilots of JAL 123 are true heros who everyone on UA 232 owes a debt of gratitude, and to Capt. Denny Fitch, who turned certian death into a fighting chance to live.
 
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SEPilot
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:23 am

Quoting Brilondon (Reply 25):

Are you suggesting that there is more to the TWA 800 explosion then we have been led to believe.

Read my answer in reply 21. In short, yes.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
UncleBuck
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:31 am

I am surprised the 1979 American DC-10 ORD crash wasn't in there, as well as the 1982 (I believe) Pan Am 727 crash in MSY. Because of that crash, wind shear detection and avoidance was significantly increased for critical periods such as takeoff and landing.

Great article. As a flight attendant, I recognize the importance of the sacrifices that have been made such as those to improve the safety of air travel and am grateful every safe takeoff and landing for the way that those horrible incidents have turned our system into the safe and common thing that it is today.
 
PanAm747
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RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:35 am

Quote:
There was the midair collision in 1973 between an Iberia DC-9 and a Spantax CV990 over Nantes, France. Caused by pilot and ATC error - French civilian ATC was on strike, so military controllers were in charge. One of the aircraft was instructed to descend, but descened too late, anyway the 2 hit, the DC-9 managed to land but the CV990 disintegrated.

Actually, it's the other way around - the DC-9 disintegrated and crashed, but the CV990 landed safely:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19730305-1

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19730305-2

As for the list itself, I think each of the topics discussed is important, I think there are several more accidents that should be part of the push for changes.

  • As stated, one cannot discuss changes in aircraft controlling by discussing only the 1956 collision over the Grand Canyon. The 1960 crash also produced significant changes to aviation such as maximum speeds at lower altitudes and disallowing flights on aircraft where certain equipment was not in working order.

  • The 1978 United crash in Portland was one of several where Cockpit Resource Management fell apart. The 1972 crash of Eastern Airlines flight 401 is legendary for how one burnt-out light bult caused four flight crew members to forget to fly the plane. Also in that category would definitely be the 1972 BEA Trident crash where, although there is no CVR tape, it is generally believed that deference to the senior pilot (and his possible incapacitation) probably caused the cockpit crew to lose track of what they were doing, allowing the plane to stall. As mentioned, the Pan Am "SkyGods" crashes also played a factor in the changes to CRM.

  • American 191. Even today, the public doesn't understand that McDonnell Douglas specifically said to the airlines, we do NOT approve of this type of engine repair!! The manufacturer is helpless at preventing an airline from doing what they want to an airplane, and in this case, American thought it had found an easier way to work on the engines. The problem was fatigue cracks appeared, and engine separation became inevitable. But who took the blame? McDonnell Douglas. Since this horrible crash, however, airlines do NOT engage in repairs or modifications not approved by the manufacturer.

  • United 232 and Japan Air Lines 123. Both of these crashes demonstrated what happens when hydraulics are lost, and JAL 123 further demonstrated the necessity of double and triple checking that repairs are done correctly, especially in areas that are not checked regularly.

  • Finally, while the Delta L-1011 crash at DFW is important, it is worth pointing out that there was yet another microburst accident in the U.S., a full eight years after this crash:

    http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19940702-0

    The Eastern 727 at JFK in 1975 was the first, Pan Am 727 at MSY was the second, Delta L-1011 at DFW was the third, and this, God willing was the fourth and last. Most airports (and now most airplanes) have Doppler weather radar now.
  • Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
     
    MSYtristar
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:38 am

    Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 29):
    The Eastern 727 at JFK in 1975 was the first

    Which, oddly enough, originated in MSY....like PA759.
     
    md80fanatic
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:44 am

    Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 12):
    I found it odd that BOTH September 11th and the Tenerife Collision were left off the list.

    Well, that's easy to explain. This is Popular Mechanics and those planes were Boeings. It isn't hard to imagine that PM will pick mostly on American manufacturers that no longer exist. Out of a total of 10 accidents listed:

    MD - 6 listings
    Lockheed - 1 listing
    Boeing - 3 listings

    Another impartial display of "journalism" by Popular Mechanics.
     
    RobertS975
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:54 am

    Quoting Maidensgator (Reply 16):
    Actually, the article states "There hasn�t been a collision between two airliners in the United States in 47 years," which refers to the crash you cite.... The 1956 crash over the Grand Canyon occurred 51 years ago...

    December 4, 1965: There was a mid-air collision between an Eastern Lockheed L1649 Connie and a TWA B707 over Danbury, CT. The Connie was a BOS-LGA shuttle flight and the TW 707 was headed for JFK. The TW jet landed safely at JFK. The EA Constellation made a somewhat controlled crash landing in a field in Westchester County. There were 4 fatalities aboard the Connie, including the pilot who went back into the plane to aid evacuation of passengers.
     
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    SEPilot
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:57 am

    Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 29):
    The Eastern 727 at JFK in 1975 was the first, Pan Am 727 at MSY was the second, Delta L-1011 at DFW was the third, and this, God willing was the fourth and last. Most airports (and now most airplanes) have Doppler weather radar now.

    There was discussion on another thread as to why airline travel comes to a screeching halt during thunderstorm activity; this is why.
    The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
     
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    northstardc4m
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:59 am

    VJ592: doesnt belong, didnt show anything new... hazardous cargos date back to the 30s causing crashes. VJ592 is only important because of the overwhelming amount of coverage it received

    Ditto TWA800: Nothing new here... If it was a fuel tank explosion, there was one in the Philippines 2 years ealier.

    Better accidents to include IMHO:

    Air Ontario 1492, F.28 at Dryden. Icing concerns. Or at least the Roselawn accident.
    World Flight 30 at Boston, 1982: Forced changes in stop distance calculations and aborted landing training.
    Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
     
    FlyDeltaJets87
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:59 am

    Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 31):
    Well, that's easy to explain. This is Popular Mechanics and those planes were Boeings. It isn't hard to imagine that PM will pick mostly on American manufacturers that no longer exist. Out of a total of 10 accidents listed:

    MD - 6 listings
    Lockheed - 1 listing
    Boeing - 3 listings

    Another impartial display of "journalism" by Popular Mechanics.

    I don't read or follow Popular Mechanics enough to know whether your pointing of their bias is wrong or not, so please don't think I'm going there.

    I don't see what the aircraft being Boeing aircraft had to do with 9/11 though. The aircraft type had no effect in the cause of the crash (well, we all know the aircraft were selected because of their size and capabilities, but the actual cause of the crash was no fault of the manufacturer). But I would argue that 9/11 has by far, had the largest impact on the aviation industry, and just as importantly, a large impact on many other industries outside of aviation as well.
    Maybe I'm answering my own question though and 9/11 was not chosen because of it's effect on far more than just the aviation industry.

    My guess as to Tenerife not being chosen was because even though the article didn't state it, all the incidents were incidents in the US, except for Swissair 111, which still originated in the US and probably identifies why it was chosen to be part of the list.
    "Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
     
    RobertS975
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:59 am

    Certainly, the 9/11 crashes have greatly influenced so much in the aviation world that it should be included. There have been massive changes in so many ways... airport perimeter security, terminal security, ramp worker ID and security, and a complete change in the way in which airline crews handle hijacking attempts.
     
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    OzarkD9S
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:02 am

    TWA 800 changed things, but not because of misiles or conspiracy theories. TWA had just reported their first operating/net profit for that quarter in YEARS. Whatever momentum TWA could have built from that was wiped away by 800 and TWA never really recovered.

    For ME anyway, apart from the loss of life...that was the real tragedy there. Another "what if" that hit a great airline for the worse.
    Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
     
    57AZ
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:13 am

    Don't forget the TWA flight that hit Mt. Weather back in the early 1970s. That crash led to a revision for ATC clearances to lower altitudes and obstructions. They cleared the flight to descend to what was essentially the pattern and the crew descended without realizing that Mt. Weather was still ahead of them.
    "When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
     
    pizzaandplanes
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:20 am

    Almost every non-pilot error crash anywhere changes aviation in a big or small way. It's unfortunate that innocent people have to die for us to correct visible errors but we learn from our mistakes and go from there. Also, we must remember those innocent people because it is likely that they have possibly saved your life.
    A real man lands where he wants to
     
    Pu752
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:24 am

    The TCAS was made after the mid-air collision Aeromexico flight 498 and a private GA plane, back in 1986.
     
    don81603
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:48 am

    Quoting SEPilot (Reply 3):
    A UA DC-8 collided with a TWA Connie over New York in 1960;

    A bit off topic, but this incident is referred to in a book I've read a few times. Does anyone have any more info on this? I checked the NTSB website, but found nothing. Thanks.
    Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
     
    WesternA318
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:56 am

    I also think the Tenerife crash and PA103 should have been in there, even perhaps the TWA 847 hijacking. What about the Avianca 707 that crashed in NY?
     
    frontierflyer
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:18 am

    Aeromexico Cerritos mid air crash gets my vote.
     
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:35 am

    Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 42):
    What about the Avianca 707 that crashed in NY?

    This did not really change anything; the problem was that the crew never made their fuel situation clear to the controllers. There were already procedures to do so; they merely got greater attention after this crash.
    The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
     
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:39 am

    Actually another crash that did lead to changed procedures and had a positive impact on safety was the Air Florida 737 that went down in the Potomac in the early eighties. What always puzzled me about this one is why, when the pilots knew the plane was going down that they didn't firewall the throttles regardless of what the guages said. Granted, it would be hard on the engines but not as hard as trying to fly underwater. If they had done so the crash probably would not have happened.
    The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
     
    airtran737
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:47 am

    Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 34):
    VJ592: doesnt belong, didnt show anything new... hazardous cargos date back to the 30s causing crashes. VJ592 is only important because of the overwhelming amount of coverage it received

    I disagree. 592 changed the industry as a whole, and how we all thought about HAZMAT. Many airlines still use 592 as an example in their training courses. While 110 people lost their lives, the number that have been saved due to industry improvements is immeasurable. 592 definately belongs on the list.
    Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
     
    gr8slvrflt
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:48 am

    I would add the TWA Fokker Trimotor crash in 1931 that killed famed football coach Knute Rockne. This crash spelled the end of wooden airliner construction in the U.S. and led indirectly to the DC-2 & DC-3.

    The Hindenburg crash led to the premature, if inevitable, end of lighter-than-air passenger ships.

    The American A-300 crash in New York in November 2001 pointed to some very bad pilot training procedures.

    There was also a Delta Convair 880 crash in Atlanta in 1960 blamed on bad training procedures.

    The Delta 727 crash at DFW in 1988 led to the "sterile cockpit" concept.

    [Edited 2007-08-31 01:50:18]
    I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
     
    contrails
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:50 am

    The Senator was actually Bronson Cutting of New Mexico. Sorry for the error.

    The Cutting crash happened on May 6, 1935. A TWA DC-2 enroute from Albuquerque to Kansas City ran out of fuel and crashed near Kirksville, MO . There were a number of errors made that contributed to the crash.

    The crash eventually led to the creation of the Civil Aeronautics Board, predecessor of today's FAA. IMO, that makes it a crash that changed aviation.

    There's a good analysis of the crash, and its aftermath, at http://www.iprr.org/papers/98ijrcaus...w.iprr.org/papers/98ijrcause.html.
    Flying Colors Forever!
     
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    RE: 10 Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

    Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:53 am

    Quoting Contrails (Reply 48):
    There's a good analysis of the crash, and its aftermath, at http://www.iprr.org/papers/98ijrcaus...html.

    Link doesn't work; can you try again, or post relevant parts?
    The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler

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