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Wolborsk
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:38 pm

Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:24 pm

In the past few months, I have noticed a lot of airlines deciding to change cabin interiors to where they have PTVs and other amenities available on short-haul flights (i.e, Delta). Others (i.e, JetBlue) already have this technology. However, Continental seems to want to stick with their older interiors. Also, I have noticed hat many international long haul carriers have already or are going to change their cabins for Business and Coach class. With the industry changing like it is, it seems that most people would probably have an inclination toward other airlines that offer better service at a similar or lower price. So, is Continental going to change and come out as the top carrier, or will it lose business because of an almost outdated cabin?
 
LXA340
Posts: 1178
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RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:40 pm

CO currently installs AVOD in their B752's (Planes that are used for Europe) and B772's. Don't know about the B762's and B764's. Regarding short haul also no clue. Their international Business Class seems to be quite confortable hence they are not in such a rush as most other US cariers who offer a completely inferior product. Their Business First is probably still better than the new international business seats on AA which are a compete flop. I gues in around 2 years CO will launch a new premium product and probably also then decide what to do with enhancments for short haul travel.
 
airways45
Posts: 282
Joined: Wed May 10, 2000 1:26 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:42 pm

Surely it's only a matter of time until CO installs fully flat beds in BusinessFirst... now UAL, BA, Virgin and AA have new(ish) products I would think CO will have to do something.

Or, they might decide that they are sticking with Northwest and Delta and hoping that the appeal of frequent flyer miles and loyal home crowd (and the fact that their skyteam partners don't have world beating products) makes them in no particular rush.

So, they might, or, they might not! Place your best!

Airways45
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:28 pm

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 2):
Surely it's only a matter of time until CO installs fully flat beds in BusinessFirst... now UAL, BA, Virgin and AA have new(ish) products I would think CO will have to do something.

CO is looking at an upgraded seat for B/F. Probably won't have it until they introduce the Dreamliner. Larry Kellner told employees in the spring that CO wants to add a new type of seat, but without removing the current number of seats in each aircraft. It doesnt' make much sense, Larry said, to install a seat that will take up so much more room that CO would have to remove seats, thereby diluting revenue.

I'd say you won' see the new product till '09 when the 787 comes online.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
airways45
Posts: 282
Joined: Wed May 10, 2000 1:26 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:17 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
It doesnt' make much sense, Larry said, to install a seat that will take up so much more room that CO would have to remove seats, thereby diluting revenue

Interesting point. However, in my experience CO is often cheaper than rivals with superior products. So, reduce the number of seats but replacing them with a bigger better seat may allow them to charge more for them.

Dilemma for US airlines (in my opinion) is that by improving the product and removing the number of seats (because bigger seats take up more space) they may upset their frequent flyers who often fill existing cabins on upgrades, the availability of which would reduce if the product improves. However, since these upgrades aren't directly paying for their business seat it could be a positive revenue earner - remove freebies and start having revenue customers up front...

Also, existing US carriers (United springs to mind) use international business class as spill for overbooking in economy. Remove the number of seats up front and the overbooking policy might have to change  Wink

Airways45
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:44 pm

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 4):
Also, existing US carriers (United springs to mind) use international business class as spill for overbooking in economy.

I'd say that isn't an issue with CO! I don't imagine there are too many CO international flights that have BF seats available within a few hours of departure, if any, let alone any that would be available for overbooking in economy.

The international flights I have been fortunate enough to take on CO, the seats and amenities are excellent even if they have been operating in the same mode for sometime now. It seems to work fine for CO as they keep filling those seats.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
nuggetsyl
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 11:46 pm

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:36 am

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 1):
CO currently installs AVOD in their B752's (Planes that are used for Europe) and B772's. Don't know about the B762's and B764's. Regarding short haul also no clue. Their international Business Class seems to be quite confortable hence they are not in such a rush as most other US cariers who offer a completely inferior product. Their Business First is probably still better than the new international business seats on AA which are a compete flop. I gues in around 2 years CO will launch a new premium product and probably also then decide what to do with enhancments for short haul travel.

I want to laugh every time i see people talk about how business class on american carriers are falling behind. There not, the american carriers are just not turning them into first class seats. Its like buying a toyota camry way back in the day, it was a really small car but now its a midsize car. I look at the carriers in europe and wonder why buy a first class seat? Save the money because busness it pretty much the same.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15100
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:51 am

Quoting Wolborsk (Thread starter):
In the past few months, I have noticed a lot of airlines deciding to change cabin interiors to where they have PTVs and other amenities available on short-haul flights (i.e, Delta). Others (i.e, JetBlue) already have this technology. However, Continental seems to want to stick with their older interiors.

You are very new here, but may I suggest you do a search for this information? It is covered, quite well, and your presumptions are wrong.

CO is upgrading the seats in Y. 757s are in process, 738s are next. Newest 777s came with AVOD, and older are being retrofitted. As 738s are refitted with more F seats, AVOD system gets installed, and though it will only currently run the overhead screens, it is capable of running AVOD in the seats once it is installed.

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 4):
Dilemma for US airlines (in my opinion) is that by improving the product and removing the number of seats (because bigger seats take up more space) they may upset their frequent flyers who often fill existing cabins on upgrades, the availability of which would reduce if the product improves. However, since these upgrades aren't directly paying for their business seat it could be a positive revenue earner - remove freebies and start having revenue customers up front...

Well, you might want to check the facts. CO does not offer fr ee upgrades on international flights (where the J seats are) and thus removing seats in J means losing revenue. The only J pax internationally who didn't pay J fares are mileage upgrades or free tickets. Mileage upgrades are not cheap: not only do you use miles, but you must pay a high base fare (or supplement) to use them. They GENERATE REVENUE. And mileage awards are a part of doing business, something that all carriers with a FF program around the world must do. When I flew to the EU this summer, the ticket, including supplement, was about $1600 + miles to fly in the J section. That's no cheap seat, and CO got their money's worth...

So before lumping everyone together and singing the old "FF customers suck revenue" song, you should actually know what you are talking about.

[Edited 2007-09-04 18:52:52]
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
citrus1
Posts: 46
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RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:05 am

Southwest hasn't changed a thing in years and there doing just fine.
 
airways45
Posts: 282
Joined: Wed May 10, 2000 1:26 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:38 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
When I flew to the EU this summer, the ticket, including supplement, was about $1600 + miles to fly in the J section

I rest my case. Roundtrip fares in business class (if you actually paid for a J class ticket) would be more in the range of $4000 - $6000. So, you actually paid a 'premium economy' type fare but got to sit in a big seat. So, I don't agree with you that Continental, in your words ' got their money's worth'.

You've illustrated an interesting point though. That your expectation of international business class travel is in the range of less than $2000 bucks plus around 25k miles. If you travel like lots of us do, 25k miles isn't too much to pay and many of us have trouble spending all the miles we get (which is why our families often do it for us!!) It is true that many people would pay $2k but not $5 or $6k that the likes of Virgin or BA charge.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
CO does not offer fr ee upgrades on international flights (where the J seats are) and thus removing seats in J means losing revenue.

Of course they do! Don't be so silly. People are often 'bumped up' for free based on the loads (overbooking in coach). After all, that's what all of us Platinum flyers hope for on an international flight if we are stuck 'down the back'.  Wink

Airways45
 
airways45
Posts: 282
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RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:43 am

Quoting Nuggetsyl (Reply 6):
I want to laugh every time i see people talk about how business class on american carriers are falling behind. There not, the american carriers are just not turning them into first class seats.

On a world-wide basis, in my opinion, based on their current 'business-first class hybrid international product' the likes of Northwest, Delta, Continental (and currently United) are behind the rest of the world.

However, there's a reason for this. It's called 9/11 and Chapter 11. These airlines haven't had the finances to invest in their products like their competitors internationally. Only now as they start making money are we seeing them invest in their products (e.g United). Hopefully they will soon place orders for new aircraft too.

Airways45
 
airways45
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RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:54 am

And, by the way, Continental's Business First was way ahead of rivals (from other parts of the world) back in the late 1990s. It was, after all, certain US airlines that led the world by removing international First Class and replacing them with improved Business Class - First Class hybrids.

Quoting Nuggetsyl (Reply 6):
There not, the american carriers are just not turning them into first class seats

Remember, that was the whole point of them in the first place - to replace First Class seats!  Big grin
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
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RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting Nuggetsyl (Reply 6):
I want to laugh every time i see people talk about how business class on american carriers are falling behind. There not, the american carriers are just not turning them into first class seats. Its like buying a toyota camry way back in the day, it was a really small car but now its a midsize car. I look at the carriers in europe and wonder why buy a first class seat? Save the money because busness it pretty much the same.

But why fly on a US carrier with a less attractive business class product when most foreign carriers have significantly upgraded their products? If you can get business class service that's almosst as good as first class on a foreign carrier at the same price, the US carriers with the older products will lose a lot of high yield traffic. Or, as is already the case now on many routes, the US carriers will be forced to reduce their fares to reflect their less attractive inflight product, resulting in much less potential revenue than if they were offering a fully competitive product.

In Europe, virtually none of the frequent longhaul business travellers I know will voluntarily choose a US carrier in preference to the major non-US carriers, unless there's no other reasonable option.
 
nuggetsyl
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 11:46 pm

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
But why fly on a US carrier with a less attractive business class product when most foreign carriers have significantly upgraded their products? If you can get business class service that's almosst as good as first class on a foreign carrier at the same price, the US carriers with the older products will lose a lot of high yield traffic. Or, as is already the case now on many routes, the US carriers will be forced to reduce their fares to reflect their less attractive inflight product, resulting in much less potential revenue than if they were offering a fully competitive product.

Your right it will come down to cost. Which is why people fly skybus.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
In Europe, virtually none of the frequent longhaul business travellers I know will voluntarily choose a US carrier in preference to the major non-US carriers, unless there's no other reasonable option.

I disagree. They will choose continental because we have a good product with a nonstop flight. I talk to way to many people that choose us because they refuse to connect international.
 
LXA340
Posts: 1178
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:55 pm

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:25 am

Quoting Nuggetsyl (Reply 6):
way back in the day, it was a really small car but now its a midsize car. I look at the carriers in europe and wonder why buy a first class seat? Save the money because busness it pretty much the same.

well just the way the car industry has changed the airline industry changes as well just like most things on this world. Things get more moder, bigger better etc. Obviously standards for Business Class have been changed over the years. A modern business class product consists now of minimum a lie flat seat and an ideal product would be a 180 degrees flat seat. F and C have moved closer together, nevertheless seats, personal comfort, space and food are still signifcantly different at a premium airline. Unfortunately service on US airlines isn't very exclusive in premium classes especially on transcontinental flights.

One thing I realy don't get is why a flight on CO from EWR to HNL offers a limited service catering etc in Business Class on a 10 hour + flights compared to a flight which is maybe 7 hours long and goes to europe just because it is a "local" flight. Things like that really make me wonder how logic works in US air travel
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15100
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:38 am

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 9):
I rest my case. Roundtrip fares in business class (if you actually paid for a J class ticket) would be more in the range of $4000 - $6000

Wrong. Summer fares in BF are not $4000-6000. Sorry. Check your facts.

Further, you claimed that the upgrades were hurting them financially and eating into revenue.

I paid a PREMIUM to upgrade, of $800. Further, that was a premium on the minimum fare code that was allowed an upgrade, NOT the minimum price of a ticket. If I had just booked Y at the biggest discount I could find, it would have been about $600, so I paid an additional $200 for the ticket before the upgrade fee. Further, I used miles which I had have earned by flying CO (or through a partner, who PAYS CO to offer miles). By being loyal, and flying CO a lot.

That upgrade was cleared only a week before travel, in the summer when there is less business traffic, and other flights had none to offer. I specifically looked around the system to find the flights I could get a seat on, so CO was more than happy to take my $1000 extra to fill a seat that couldn't otherwise fill. CO was only offering the seat since they felt it wouldn't sell, from EWR-BRU and back from CDG-EWR.

Other days of the week, other times of year, that seat would have been full revenue. I couldn't get a seat the next day, nor on the other two CDG flights, for example.

So which is it? Did they lose money taking $1000 extra to upgrade me, or did they lose money by not stripping the seats out to adjust for the lowest demand (summer), even though on other routes at other times of year, the 777 would have fewer J seats that they couldn't sell even if they wanted to.

Again, your presumption is based on DOMESTIC UPGRADE POLICIES and not INTERNATIONAL UPGRADE POLICIES and people very often confuse the two when they aren't up to speed on the systems in place.

There is no free lunch on CO internationally, they do strong business on most routes, and they are profitable. Why you think you know more about their revenue and yields than they do, who knows...

And BTW - CO went from 24F to 16BF in their 752s for international service even though it meant fewer free upgrades available when those planes fly domestic routes. So somewhere along the line, they decided what was best, and the "freeloading" elite fliers didn't win...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
airways45
Posts: 282
Joined: Wed May 10, 2000 1:26 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:57 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):
Wrong. Summer fares in BF are not $4000-6000. Sorry. Check your facts.

What do you think roundtrip fares in international business class are during the summer? Clearly more than $1600 otherwise you would have bought a ticket and saved your miles  Wink

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):
so CO was more than happy to take my $1000 extra to fill a seat that couldn't otherwise fill.

I agree.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):
Again, your presumption is based on DOMESTIC UPGRADE POLICIES and not INTERNATIONAL UPGRADE POLICIES and people very often confuse the two when they aren't up to speed on the systems in place.

Not true. I'm totally familiar with CO's policies thank you. I'm aware that I can have 'free' guaranteed domestic First Class seats on CO by paying for a coach fare (as Platinum onepass).

I can't see how people would confuse auto-upgrades (domestic) with International. They are two separate products - one is automatic for elite flyers (domestic).

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):
Why you think you know more about their revenue and yields than they do, who knows...

Not sure who you are aiming this at - it's clearly not me.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):
Further, you claimed that the upgrades were hurting them financially and eating into revenue.

One again, not sure who 'claimed' this above - I didn't.


Airways45
 
Lemurs
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:13 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:04 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):
And BTW - CO went from 24F to 16BF in their 752s for international service even though it meant fewer free upgrades available when those planes fly domestic routes. So somewhere along the line, they decided what was best, and the "freeloading" elite fliers didn't win...

CO sells out a lot of their F cabin domestically now too. It's hard to get a seat in the front even as a gold on most transcon because they sell at least half the cabin and the rest go to plats...if not more. I've had plenty of SEA-EWR flights where I have tried to book up front more than a week out only to find it sold out. SOLD out, not upgraded out.

Also, I go out of my way to fly CO Int'l because I hate connecting internationally, I like CO's product and service, and I am comfortable with how to get things done should problems arise. CO has won a lot of business from me for consistency and options, not because of a lie-flat seat. A.netters think too often in terms of how comfortable their asses are instead of the best way to get from point A-to-B in a wide variety of situations. (Not you Ikr, just saying...)
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
airways45
Posts: 282
Joined: Wed May 10, 2000 1:26 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 17):
CO has won a lot of business from me for consistency and options, not because of a lie-flat seat

 checkmark   yes 

Excellent point. Schedule is very important. I know I am willing to trade comfort for schedule if it allows me to skip changes (with those LONG security lines!!)

Airways45
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 4197
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:52 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):
Again, your presumption is based on DOMESTIC UPGRADE POLICIES and not INTERNATIONAL UPGRADE POLICIES and people very often confuse the two when they aren't up to speed on the systems in place.

As you point out very well, the domestic (except mainland to HNL) and international upgrade policy on CO is very different.....so best read the find print in the OnePass members guide as Ikramerica has clearly done.

I've flown international this summer and what works best for us is buy the lowest BF ticket, yeah it might run ya $1800 or so for a mid Europe destination from the U.S., but rather than pay the upgrade fee based up the fare of economy you purchase and then have them the miles from your account, it just worked out better to buy the BF class ticket.

Domestic much different.

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 16):
Clearly more than $1600 otherwise you would have bought a ticket and saved your miles

Not alot more if you booked a few months out and picked the right days to travel!

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 16):
I'm totally familiar with CO's policies thank you. I'm aware that I can have 'free' guaranteed domestic First Class seats on CO by paying for a coach fare (as Platinum onepass).

That isn't true either! You have to purchase a "Y" fare and there must be seats available for upgrade at time of purchase.....being a Platinum means nothing, Silver Elite and Gold Elite are able to do exactly the same thing.

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 17):
CO has won a lot of business from me for consistency and options, not because of a lie-flat seat. A.netters think too often in terms of how comfortable their asses are instead of the best way to get from point A-to-B in a wide variety of situations

Exactly!  Smile
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
airways45
Posts: 282
Joined: Wed May 10, 2000 1:26 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:57 am

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 19):
That isn't true either! You have to purchase a "Y" fare and there must be seats available for upgrade at time of purchase.....being a Platinum means nothing, Silver Elite and Gold Elite are able to do exactly the same thing.

I must be reading something different to you guys:

See http://www.continental.com/web/en-US...ontent/onepass/elite/upgrades.aspx

For me, Platinum does mean something. And, you don't have to just purchase a 'Y' fare. I'm not sure if I'm getting something special and you are not able to have it? Rules written out below for your interest... Status counts

From Continental (link above):

Priority for First Class/Business Class Elite upgrades is determined by:

Unrestricted Y fare class or Northwest Airlines -26/-27 fare: Allows all Elite members to upgrade at the time of ticketing when a seat is available. If a member is already ticketed and wants to request the upgrade, they can visit Manage Reservations or call their Elite Priority Line and provide their confirmation number.

Elite level: Members are prioritized according to their Elite level -- Platinum, Gold and then Silver. When traveling with other Elite members or non-Elite members, Elite members should purchase their flight on a separate itinerary.

Restricted fare class: Upgrade priority within Elite level will be based on fare class purchased. The fare class structure in priority order is as follows: H, K, M, N, B, O, V, U, Q, I, S, W, T, X and L.

Booking date/time: All else being equal, the sooner Elite members book their flight, the better their upgrade chances.

Check in time: If your upgrade is processed from the standby upgrade list at the airport, check in time will be used in place of booking date/time.

Upgrade Processing & Confirmation
Upgrades are processed nightly and confirmed in priority order using the following schedule:

All Elite members on unrestricted Y fare class -- Beginning 5 calendar days before departure if an upgrade was not confirmed any time after ticketing

Platinum Elite members on non-Y fare classes -- Beginning 5 calendar days before departure

Gold Elite members on non-Y fare classes -- Beginning 3 calendar days before departure

Silver Elite members on non-Y fare classes -- Beginning 1 calendar day before departure
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4603
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 5):
The international flights I have been fortunate enough to take on CO, the seats and amenities are excellent even if they have been operating in the same mode for sometime now. It seems to work fine for CO as they keep filling those seats.



Quoting Airways45 (Reply 10):
However, there's a reason for this. It's called 9/11 and Chapter 11. These airlines haven't had the finances to invest in their products like their competitors internationally. Only now as they start making money are we seeing them invest in their products (e.g United). Hopefully they will soon place orders for new aircraft too.



Quoting Lemurs (Reply 17):
CO sells out a lot of their F cabin domestically now too. It's hard to get a seat in the front even as a gold on most transcon because they sell at least half the cabin and the rest go to plats...if not more. I've had plenty of SEA-EWR flights where I have tried to book up front more than a week out only to find it sold out. SOLD out, not upgraded out.

As always, why fix something that isnt broken??
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 4197
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:06 am

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 20):
I must be reading something different to you guys:

See http://www.continental.com/web/en-US...ontent/onepass/elite/upgrades.aspx

For me, Platinum does mean something. And, you don't have to just purchase a 'Y' fare. I'm not sure if I'm getting something special and you are not able to have it? Rules written out below for your interest... Status counts

I apologize, it was me who read incorrectly.....whoops, I was thinking you referred to buying a "Y" fare and getting the upgrade at purchase time if available in a domestic market, or Mexico.

Your correct in your unlimited upgrades with the electronic upgrade 5,3.1 day ahead based on your status, then Platinum does mean something unless as mentioned in another post, all the "Y" fare tickets bought by Silver and Gold Elite took the entire first class cabin then you as a Platinum are in the econ section so then your status means nothing!  Smile)

I've learned on some flights regardless of being a Platinum or not you might be better served to take the "Y" fare ticket, then upgrade upon the completion of the purchase, especially on long trips, cuzz if you don't someone else will.

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 20):
Rules written out below for your interest

Thanks, I memorized them long ago but again my apology for misreading your paragraph.  ashamed 
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 4197
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 21):
As always, why fix something that isnt broken??


 bigthumbsup 
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
airways45
Posts: 282
Joined: Wed May 10, 2000 1:26 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:08 am

Hey buddy, not a problem!  bigthumbsup 

Airways45
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 3619
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:34 am

Continental has a superior product relative to most other US carriers. It has built its offerings around frequent, nonstop flights from key hubs, international service, and consistency of product. The cabin interiors on CO aircraft are just fine. They are crisp, usually clean, or tidy at least, and the standards are the same, whether on a 737 or a 777, minus the obvious differences in cabin size and PTV's, etc...

Delta, American, and United are all copying CO's model.
 
bok269
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 10:19 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:28 am

Also remember that competively, while the design of the seat is important, the attitude and customer service of the employees is also very important, and in that regards, CO is ahead of many of its competitors.
"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
 
laca773
Posts: 2081
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:01 am

Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 25):
Continental has a superior product relative to most other US carriers. It has built its offerings around frequent, nonstop flights from key hubs, international service, and consistency of product. The cabin interiors on CO aircraft are just fine. They are crisp, usually clean, or tidy at least, and the standards are the same, whether on a 737 or a 777, minus the obvious differences in cabin size and PTV's, etc...

Completely agree!
CO offers a far superior product to the likes of AA /NW/UA. DL has upgraded their international flight product inline to what CO offers and in Y offers a bit more now than CO does but I feel it will only be a matter of time before CO does the same, or offers a similar product to DL's.
Now that UA is making remarkable upgrades to their premium cabins I feel CO may do something prior to the dreamliners arrive in their fleet.

LACA773
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15100
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:09 am

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 27):
DL has upgraded their international flight product inline to what CO offers and in Y offers a bit more now than CO does but I feel it will only be a matter of time before CO does the same

Actually, DL only ANNOUNCED that they do. In reality, they are slow in updating their aircraft, and CO is quietly updating it's aircraft at the same time. For example, DL has talked about bringing back BOB, yet still hasn't, and sells salty snack boxes, while CO still offers free things. DL has talked about adding PTVs to aircraft, but is slow in rolling this out, while CO is upgrading their 757s at a faster pace, and will start with 738s as well (and likely will start receiving 738s and 739ERs with AVOD already installed).

Internationally, CO and DL product is nearly the same, with a few of each carrier lacking PTV in Y, and both looking to upgrade the entire international fleet. But it sounds, again, as if CO will get it done faster.

Now maybe this is a result of CO being smaller, but if you go by size, DL should be able to do more planes at once (same percentage of larger resources).

AA, on the other hand, is far behind, as they are not even committed to bringing PTV/AVOD to their 767s or 757s, and could have put IFE into the MD80s long ago but never bothered.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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asuflyer05
Posts: 2123
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:53 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:18 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
But why fly on a US carrier with a less attractive business class product when most foreign carriers have significantly upgraded their products?

A number of reasons. But CO has some of the most loyal frequent flyers around.

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 14):
One thing I realy don't get is why a flight on CO from EWR to HNL offers a limited service catering etc in Business Class on a 10 hour + flights compared to a flight which is maybe 7 hours long and goes to europe just because it is a "local" flight.

Because of yield. If offering full-service on EWR-HNL helped them generate a higher profit, they would do it.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:21 am

Quoting Citrus1 (Reply 8):
Southwest hasn't changed a thing in years and there doing just fine.

WN doesn't have to worry about constantly fine-tuning international Business Class, either.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
ly204
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:33 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:53 am

Of all of the mainline characters, many would argue that CO has the most competitive all-around product. While there is a need for most US airlines to make some updates, I am particularly surprised that the focus is on CO. AA comes to mind as an airline that does the least amount of updates necessary...while they have updated their MD80 interiors in recent years and have toyed with in flight internet service and are slowly rolling out updated business class seats, they overall have one of the most basic, tired offerings out there.
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1618
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

RE: Will CO Ever Update Their Aircraft?

Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:28 pm

Quoting LY204 (Reply 31):
Of all of the mainline characters, many would argue that CO has the most competitive all-around product. While there is a need for most US airlines to make some updates, I am particularly surprised that the focus is on CO. AA comes to mind as an airline that does the least amount of updates necessary...while they have updated their MD80 interiors in recent years and have toyed with in flight internet service and are slowly rolling out updated business class seats, they overall have one of the most basic, tired offerings out there.

And UAL's Y interiors are a joke. Dirty, mix matched, and tired seats. It's always amazing to me when I fly a 735 from UAL and a 735 from CO the difference in the upkeep and feel in the cabin. Not to mention, 15 hrs from HKG to ORD w/o any PTV on the 744's, and no plans to change that. That was awful.

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