MSYtristar
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:27 am

There are way too many prudes out there. That's a big problem with America. The lawyer made a good point when talking about Paris Hilton. I bet Keith would be awestruck if Paris decided to hop a ride on the WN. This girl's dress was short...but again....you see it EVERY SINGLE DAY! If I tried to deny boarding to everyone I ever saw dressed like that, they would fill up an A380. People should just mind their own business, really. You may not like what someone wears, but that's life. As long as she didn't go running down the aisles flashing people, there is nothing wrong with the outfit she wore. And besides, it's not like she was on a flight full of Nuns or anything. This is a basic, low frills, WN flight. This should not have been remotely offensive to anyone. I mean come on....
 
zvezda
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:31 am

If US airlines were remotely interested in a safe evacuation in the event of an emergency, there would not be FAs working (well, those I've seen don't actually work, even if they are present and on the clock) into their 80s.
 
wingletsman
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:23 am

SUE THEIR BUTTS!!!!
:D HEHE!!
WINGLETS!!!!
she looks sad!!
 
JRDC930
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:41 am

Nice to see the kind of people that fly these days have absolutely no regard for what is worn on a plane. I think ill go nude to the airport and see what happens.... Also im sure the people on here who advocate hoochie skirts and bras for shirts would still be supporting the women if she were a 250lb woman.  Yeah sure You dont like their rules go fly some one else. Granted she wasn't too horribly dressed, but its still WN's aircraft, they have the right to refuse service to those they deem as causing an inappropriate disruption. You dont like what WN did, dont fly it. What a nice way to start a trip for a 10 year old, by geting a glimps of a womans A**

P.S. This is obviously an attention stunt. Worked too, now she's got every ones attention. Im sure she didnt think of that when she put on her booty skirt.
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
FlyboyOz
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:50 am

It's similar to the german news about bus driver told a sexy woman to get off the bus two months ago.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22085306-13762,00.html

A GERMAN bus driver threatened to throw a 20-year-old sales clerk off his bus in the southern town of Lindau because he said she was too sexy.

"Suddenly he stopped the bus," the woman named Debora C told Bild newspaper.

"He opened the door and shouted at me 'Your cleavage is distracting me every time I look into my mirror and I can't concentrate on the traffic. If you don't sit somewhere else, I'm going to have to throw you off the bus."'

The woman, pictured in Bild wearing her snug-fitting summer outfit with the plunging neckline, said she moved to another seat but was humiliated by the bus driver.

A spokesman for the bus company defended the driver.

"The bus driver is allowed to do that and he did the right thing," the spokesman said.

"A bus driver cannot be distracted because it's a danger to the safety of all the passengers."

...

[Edited 2007-09-08 03:51:33]
The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
 
zvezda
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:11 am

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 153):
You dont (sic) like their rules go fly some one else. Granted she wasn't too horribly dressed, but its still WN's aircraft, they have the right to refuse service to those they deem as causing an inappropriate disruption. You dont (sic) like what WN did, dont (sic) fly it. What a nice way to start a trip for a 10 year old, by geting (sic) a glimps (sic) of a womans (sic) A**

If an airline has a problem with the way a passenger is dressed, the right time to mention it is during check-in, not after everyone has boarded and the aircraft door is about to be closed.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:36 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 127):
Well, I asked around and I got some answers. Not that anyone here will pay any attention to what I have to say here, but...

My suspicions were correct. The article and included photo do not tell whole story. She did not look like that at the time of the incident. Feel free to PM me if you care to know more.

Anyway, carry on with your WN/"Keith" bashing since I don't think anyone is reading the thread before snapping to judgement.

I've tried to stay out of this thread for obvious reasons, but the lunacy of the reactions here and in the media has just gotten absolutely ridiculous. (Everything in this post is my personal opinion).

Not that anyone would believe me either (since the lynch mob that's here with pitchforks and burning torches would be deprived of their raison d' etre), but you're absolutely correct in your suspicions, and your conclusions.

Keith isn't some kind of prude (or nutcase, or power-tripper, or whatever derogatory name has been used to describe him in the last 150+ posts) that "decided" on his own to speak with the Customer and supposedly impose his personal standards. The reality is that a concern was brought to his attention by someone else, and as a supervisor, he acted in response to that concern. The Customer wasn't forced off the aircraft a gunpoint or made to walk the plank--she was discretely spoken to about the situation, and after making some wardrobe adjustments, she was able to travel on the very flight she had intended to be on in the first place. Whether anyone else not involved with the situation agrees with that expressed "concern" is immaterial. Yes, you're all entitled to your own opinions, but then so too was the person that expressed their concern to Keith.

I don't have every airline's rules and tariffs memorized, but all airlines have their own policies and procedures regarding similar situations. Whether a Customer has skimpy dress, severe B.O., or clothing with offensive comments or graphics on it, other Customers have their rights too. Just like buying a movie ticket doesn't allow the bearer the right to exercise their "free speech" by yelling "FIRE!" inside a crowed theater, an airline ticket holder doesn't have carte blanche either.

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 140):
Seriously there is nothing offensive about wearing an outfit like that unless she wasn't wearing any underwear, which is a point that WN should have bought up if that was the case.

*IF* (and I'm going to repeat that so there's no misunderstanding here), *IF* what you suggest were the case, it should be pretty easy to conclude why such a *possible* point wasn't mentioned or discussed. Think about it.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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remcor
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:16 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 156):
Just like buying a movie ticket doesn't allow the bearer the right to exercise their "free speech" by yelling "FIRE!" inside a crowed theater, an airline ticket holder doesn't have carte blanche either.

What about wearing a skimpy outfit inside a movie theater? Flight from SAN to Tuscon is about the same length of time as a movie, and the seats are even closer in a movie. hmmmm.... something to think about.  Smile
 
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Tugger
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:24 pm

Hello all,

Just checking back in. Never knew that this thing would take off like it did, for me it was just an unusual situation and and very cute, bordering on hot, girl. I've been keeping an eye on the thread trying to get what was up with the situation between this girl and Southwest.

First off I am not anti Southwest, in fact I do rather like them, a lot. And like many here at first I just thought it was a case of over reaction by an FA. But that would be rather abnormal for Southwest.

As I followed the thread and found her Myspace page, it became apparent that this young lady really likes to flirt with the edge (to the point of falling off) of what is decent. I have a feeling that the mom is the one that started to press this further and sent a request to Southwest for more information. I also believe that Southwest sought discretion when discussing the matter with all parties, from what Kieth said to Ms. Ebbert to what was put in the letter replying to her mother (which for legal reasons is also probably due to privacy concerns). I can imagine and would even bet that a bit more than the skirt was showing and if that was the case then I have no problem with what was done. She was allowed back on the flight and nothing else was done to bring undue attention to her. Now perhaps simpler ways to solve the problem could have been used ("here's a blanket, use it please") but again discretion is the path Southwest and Kieth chose when he requested to speak with her in a private and controlled area and when the problem was addressed she continued her trip.

I have no proof that anything was justified or not but I am certain enough that there is more to the story that I emailed the gentleman who wrote the UT newspaper article that he should check it out more. Though I suspect that the truth of this situation will be coming out sooner or later based on the increasing attention it is getting. Of course as many posters have pointed out I suspect that Ms. Ebbert will come out of this just fine. She will meet lots'o guys with plenty'o money that are specifically interested in her because of what she does wear and what it does show. She'll be just like The Girls Next Door. And probably very happy. We'll see.

Anyway, I do think there are plenty of crazy FA's out there and that an "unreasonable" version of these events could have also been possible. And I do think the discussion of what is reasonable and allowable on airlines is a good one.

Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
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fxramper
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:36 pm

She looks like a 40 year old alcoholic.  drunk 

I'd boot her.  rotfl 
 
MDorBust
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:55 pm

Quoting FXramper (Reply 159):
I'd boot her.

AH!

So, you would give her the boot, eh?

Know what I mean? Know what I mean?

Nudge nudge.

Say no more.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
iwok
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:31 pm

I notice in the video that her lawyer is present, which means a "civil rights" lawsuit coming up soon.  mad 

I think she could make more money on a certain magazine  bigthumbsup  ... just take em off, smile for the camera and collect $. Easy as pie for a dummy like her...

iwok
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:02 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 156):
but all airlines have their own policies and procedures regarding similar situations.

Policies which are never made clear to the public. They are only made clear when it comes down to this....asking someone to step off the aircraft. Been there, done that. If airlines were really concerned about this, they'd have a sign up at the ticket counter, and they would advise their res agents to let customers know of the rule. Otherwise, they really have no right to tell the public what they can and cannot wear, as long as it is within reason, and this was clearly within reason. Pushing the limits? Perhaps. But how IS riding on an airplane any different than going to the movies or going to a sporting event or going out to eat? You are still out in public and are paying for a service. And when you are at dinner the restaurants usually have dress codes posted...sporting events, not so much, who cares?....same with the movies.

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 156):
but the lunacy of the reactions here and in the media has just gotten absolutely ridiculous.

Honestly, there really is no lunacy involved. And would you expect anything less from the media?
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:25 pm

I saw this story on different news outlets all day long. On the Inside Edition version, they read a response from Southwest which stated that there were "concerns" expressed by others about the way she was dressed. I got the impression that the "concerns" (complaints) were from other passengers, not the FA's or Keith, the GA. There were some other discrepancies in this woman's story. On one news report she says that the conversation with Keith took place in the jetway, whereas on the Today Show interview they made it sound like it took place at the front of the plane in view of other passengers. I'm not buying that version. I think Southwest would have been discrete enough to have the discussion in the jetway. Also, on the Today show interview, she says her legs were crossed, magazine and purse in her lap. On Inside Edition, she says her legs were crossed, and she was reading a magazine and the tray table was down (unlikely, since the plane was preparing to depart momentarily.) I wonder if her underwear (if she was wearing any) was of the sheer (see-through) variety.

LoneStarMike
 
DeC
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:25 pm

Anyone thought as well that MAYBE that Keith guy and the driver who kicked out the sexy lady from the bus a couple of months back in that other story - but also any other similar case is basically because those "Keith"'s of the world are in fact driven crazy by the thought they never had nor they will ever have a gorgeous woman like that and therefore act like total a***s??! And in the case that "Keith" was a female, maybe because of sheer jealousy? Don't know, thinking out loud here, but maybe some things are not always as complicated as we want them to be (regulations, airline policies and such) but more down to the human nature instead?
DEC
 
chris133
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:04 pm

I also have been trying to stay out of this topic but things are getting out of hand a bit. People should not jump to condemn someone until they know all of the facts (and i assure you, ALL of the facts were not given by the person that felt wronged). We do not know if something else was done that may have caused more concern than just what she was wearing (i.e. did she have anything on under it, did she bend over a lot, or sit normally in the seat).

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 155):
If an airline has a problem with the way a passenger is dressed, the right time to mention it is during check-in, not after everyone has boarded and the aircraft door is about to be closed.

I agree with this statement, which leads me to believe that she did something else after she boarded that caused the problem.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 162):
Policies which are never made clear to the public. They are only made clear when it comes down to this....asking someone to step off the aircraft.

As for the policies, I tend to find that if people actually read the policy, instead of assuming they know what they say, they usually prove to be pretty straight forward. Here is a section straight from the WN website that seams pretty straight forward.
F. Comfort and Safety - Carrier may refuse to transport or remove from the aircraft at any
point any passenger in the following categories as may be necessary for the comfort or safety of such passenger or other passengers:
(1) Persons whose conduct is or has been known to be disorderly, abusive, offensive, threatening, intimidating, or violent, or whose clothing is lewd, obscene, or patently offensive;
 
737tdi
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:32 pm

Have you ever listened to Paul Harvey? "And now for the rest of the story", all of ya'll slammers, there is more to this story. Either she was going commando or caused some other problems after boarding. To be honest with ya I could care less if my son saw her snapper, but it is a huge problem with my daughter. Gals should be a little more private with their privates. Don't know if that was the deal or not but I wouldn't bet against it. Keep your package covered up. JMHO.

Semper Fi:

737tdi
 
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par13del
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:56 pm

Has anyone seen the security video or has that already been destroyed or not allowed for release due to security concerns, would that even help, what would work is if there were security camera's on the plane itself.
Based on what I know of US airports, after checkin and security access points, there are usually long corridors to get to your gates / boarding areas' which have sitting area's, bathrooms, restaurants etc., the means and oppertunity to adjust ones clothing even change them are all over the place.

I will be trolling youtube and others, I somehow have a feeling that the person or persons on the flight who took pics of her using their camera phone will be going all out to see how valuable they are, especially if this ends up in court. How many of us has seen a "hot looking" lady and sneaked shots for posterity?
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:04 pm

Quoting Chris133 (Reply 165):
I tend to find that if people actually read the policy, instead of assuming they know what they say, they usually prove to be pretty straight forward. Here is a section straight from the WN website that seams pretty straight forward.

Right. I never doubted that it was there. But as I said, if they were serious about enforcing it, it should be put to the forefront...not just thrown somewhere on the website or in the COC. This is not a policy which is carried out effectively, because most airline employees realize that in the end, this is not a big deal. Do I think people need to wear revealing attier when they travel? No. It's not a fashion show. But at the same time, it is none of my business why they wear what they wear, so I would never complain. I generally try to mind my own business, and if I see something strange or what not, I just laugh to myself, maybe shake my head, and then carry on reading my newspaper.
 
zvezda
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:21 pm

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 166):
To be honest with ya I could care less if my son saw her snapper, but it is a huge problem with my daughter.

Why would that be a problem with your daughter? You want her to wear underwear in the summer when it's too hot to reasonably do so? Why do so many men feel the need to oppress women in this way? There are enough positive role models like Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears for girls who want to be free of Victorian prudishness. Your daughter doesn't need Kyla Ebbert in order to figure out that underwear is unnecessary. If Kyla Ebbert wasn't wearing any on her WN flights, then Bravo!
 
concordegboad
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:55 pm

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 153):
P.S. This is obviously an attention stunt. Worked too, now she's got every ones attention. Im sure she didnt think of that when she put on her booty skirt

She's been looking for attention for quite some time. It is apparent by her formerly public Myspace profile/pics.

Someone should send the booty picture of her and her 2 friends in lingerie boyshorts (and don't forget the Coach purse!) to a news outlet that would run it. I'm sure she wouldn't mind since it is on her Myspace profile (front page, not in the photo albums. If you are THAT curious, Google cache is your friend).
 
chris133
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:58 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 168):
Right. I never doubted that it was there. But as I said, if they were serious about enforcing it, it should be put to the forefront...not just thrown somewhere on the website or in the COC.

I understand your point about putting things to the forefront, but, how do you effectivly do that? This week its how you dress, next week it'll be profanity, then carry on bags..... How can an airline or any other company move a particular rule to the forefront. They are all important or they wouldn't be listed at all. To do that every website would be just a list of rules and we all know people still would not read them, let alone follow them. I understand what you are saying but at some point people have to take responsibility themselves for knowing the rules.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:07 pm

It looks like she is wearing a white leotard.....



with a blue top covering and a cutoff (from white jeans) skirt below. Even if the white skirt fell to the floor she'd be no more exposed anyone else on the plane. Without the top and skirt, she would be wearing what over 90% of female figure skaters (ages 5 - 50) wear that I see each and every week. She has every right to complain IMO.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:26 pm

Quoting Chris133 (Reply 171):
I understand what you are saying but at some point people have to take responsibility themselves for knowing the rules.

I know. And I agree to an extent with what a lot of people are saying on here. But I guess you can't change the way people want themselves to be perceived. Obviously this person has no problem with showing off her body. Or maybe she dresses like that everyday and doesn't think about it, who knows, nothing surprises me. I think that this is a touchy subject because let's be honest...you just don't hear about it a lot. If airlines decided to really crack down on the dress code, it would probably go a long way in helping folks understand that the airline expects them to dress in way a which they feel is appropriate.

They could put a link on the front page of the website...in bold font..."Click here to review important information regarding our travel policies"...or something like that. I don't know. I just think they could make it a little more known so that people like this lady...and to the countless others dressed a lot worse than her...know that certain standards are expected to be met to avoid situations like this.

And with that....I have said pretty much all I need to say.
 
BNinMSY
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:29 pm

Her coochie was blurred on the NBC Today show ... when she sat back down.. BUT when the clip is run on MSNBC or other outlets it's not ... because those are cable stations. Blurred on the networks.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:52 am

Quoting BNinMSY (Reply 174):
Her coochie was blurred on the NBC Today show ...

Her "coochie" could not have been visible wearing a leotard. It wasn't even a thin see-thru type leotard (trust me, I looked very closely and repeatedly  Smile ). And BTW, those myspace pics were NOT explicit, as was mentioned by some poster above. For God's sake folks, most current fashion swimwear reveals far more.

The blurring made you think there was something there worthy of blurring. Wishful thinking, perhaps?

Time now for everyone to get a life already. She will sue and win, rightfully.
 
2175301
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:55 am

While I suspect there is more to the story than initially presented in the media; I am also concerned about some of the points I have read here:

1) Airlines are not concerned about the safety aspect of passenger clothing. Just look at what they have allowed forever. Yes, in many emergency situations people are going to have additional injuries because they were not dressed appropriately for the emergency situations. I suppose I could wear leather soled shoes (the sole will not melt on contact with hot metal), wool pants (wool does not burn like cotton - and many welders wear wool pants for the protection), long sleeve shirts, and have leather gloves available, etc.

If the airlines were worried about passenger clothing for an emergency - that is the kind of dress code they would enforce on all flight crew and passengers - all the time. Since they don't - and allow people to wear short shorts, nylons, & light short sleeve shirt (and even halter tops). Discussion of this point is moot - and I think kicking someone off of a plane raising the safety issue of their clothing would quickly warrant a very winnable lawsuit in the US and other countries.

2) What is "indecent"? I will concede that in normal public places within the US full nudity is normally considered indecent. Once you start adding even a little bit of clothing it becomes much harder to claim indecency in general public settings and public transportation systems (such as most airlines, trains, busses, etc).

Flirting - and even "flashing" as part of flirting is not normally considered indecent in public.

Nudity in of itself is not provocative or sexual behavior. Many people from other countries understand that; and in the US just talk to any health care provider.

I am personally familiar with one sport where the european athletes tend to strip off their race gear and clothing and wander the race course in good weather (whitewater slalom canoe/kayak racing: both male and female athletes). Here in the US this almost created an international incident and the police were planning on arresting entire national teams. In the end - it was decided that a large "athlete/officials" area would be roped off and the athletes would restrict their "au-natural" activities to that area. That became standard practice in about half a dozen locations in the US. We just explained that to the locals (including local police) when a race moved to a new location city.

3) There is such a thing as gross behavior (regardless of how you are, or are not dressed).

4) There are prudes as well.


I have seen many things I personally do not like in airports and on planes. Yet, It really would have to be something extremely bad for me to complain. If someone wanted to fly nude (even if 250 lb) I really would not care as long as they otherwise behaved themselves and were clean (and they would probably be cleaner than someone elses clothing). I do understand that other people may not feel the same.


Overall, I really do not see how SW can win this one publicly. If she was exhibiting "gross" or perhaps belligerent behavior then SW should have said so - and end of story. If its just the clothing.... and other passengers complained - I don't see any reason for what happened to her. Sometimes people who are complaining need to be reminded that sometimes civility is the best attribute.

In the end; I feel that the real story is that this incident could have been handled better - and I hope Kieth and his associates are considering that.
 
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SANFan
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:13 am

IMHO, just another young lady hoping to be discovered and will probably end up either on the Stern show or Playboy and who knows after that... You obviously can't pay for this kind of "exposure" (except the price of a SAN-TUS-SAN ticket on WN!  Smile ) Not a bad deal for her...

bb
 
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remcor
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:39 am

It's kind of funny that a bunch of young to middle aged men are discussing ad nauseam what is appropriate or not appropriate for a young woman to wear.

Is there a woman reading this thread that could comment on her opinion about all this?
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:03 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 175):
She will sue and win, rightfully.

Wrong. If she took it to court, then the rest of the story would come out. She has no case. She, with the help from her mother, is just looking for 15 minutes of fame.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
highflier92660
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:20 am

This story has gotten legs far beyond all sensibility. In the interests of ferreting out the facts I did see Matt Lauer's interview with Kyla Ebbert- in high definition- after she had received coaching in how to speak in indignant albeit innocent sound bites, and she does come-off as more "Motel 6" and less "Peninsula/Ritz-Carlton" if the analogy works. Also my lightning fast 20/15 peepers did detect her white undies as she sat down, a sight rarely seen in a morning news and entertainment show. So my original hypothesis is right, it wasn't the outfit alone but the person wearing the outfit.

I submit that if another recent 15 minutes-of-fame young woman had attempted to board that Southwest flight to Tucson wearing the same outfit, every boarding agent, male passenger and (straight) male flight attendant would never have given it a second thought. Remember Miss Teen South Carolina, Caitlin Upton; the woman who suddenly forgot her mother tongue during a Q and A, and started speaking nouns and verbs by their Latin root with a little Vulcan thrown in? Take a brief look at her portfolio and tell me any red-blooded male Southwest Airlines supervisor would refuse boarding to her. http://www.lockemanagement.com/view.cfm?modelID=199

I rest my case.
 
psa188
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:52 am

Of course, back in the day, Southwest flight attendants wore hot skimpy uniforms with hot pants:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR7JApjgIGw
 
N911YX
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:07 am

Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
It says something about society, sure, but it's the world we live in.

The fact that this society puts up with such displays (her snatcx was on display boys and girls) says everything about the deteriorization of public decency. We don't have to put up with it. Are we going to allow naked passengers to park their sweaty asses on our seats because 'it's the world we live in'? The world we live in is of our making. You want it changed? Then JUST SAY NO. No more, no less, live by the rules of a civilized society or go elsewhere and live in anarchy.
The airline biz needs a Quantum Physic
 
N911YX
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:09 am

Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
It says something about society, sure, but it's the world we live in.

The fact that this society puts up with such displays (her snatcx was on display boys and girls) says everything about the deteriorization of public decency. We don't have to put up with it. Are we going to allow naked passengers to park their sweaty asses on our seats because 'it's the world we live in'? The world we live in is of our making. You want it changed? Then JUST SAY NO. No more, no less, live by the rules of a civilized society or go elsewhere and live in anarchy.
The airline biz needs a Quantum Physic
 
L-188
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:22 am

Quoting RachelBDL (Reply 76):
According to our manual, we can deny a passenger transport "whose clothing is lewd, obscene, or clearly offensive."

Nobody ever reads the mice-type.

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 123):
I have to take Southwest side on this.

I wasn't going to until....

Quoting BNinMSY (Reply 130):
She has dragged herself onto the TODAY show right now! It's interesting when she was showing off her outfit and sat back down .. the camera BLURRED her coochie!

If it can't be shown on daytime television, it shouldn't be tolerated on an aircraft.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:42 am

Quoting N911YX (Reply 182):
her snatcx was on display boys and girls

Could you please point out where this happened? Do you have any proof at all to your assertion?

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 179):
If she took it to court, then the rest of the story would come out.

What is the rest of the story, in your opinion?

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 179):
She, with the help from her mother, is just looking for 15 minutes of fame.

Can you prove this assertion? Or is this just your gut instinct, "seat of the pants" opinion?


I have seen every picture and video associated with this overblown story, and have seen her MySpace page.....nowhere have I seen anything obscene or even the slightest bit sexually suggestive. I have seen some decent lingerie worn with friends, and in a playful and partylike atmosphere. She's an attractive young lady who appears to enjoy showing off her figure.

I'm a Christian and have spoken out sternly on the website when events warrant a reaction. This event does not even qualify. You guys who doth protest too much, and you girls too, need to focus on more pressing issues (like airport bathroom hookups, and lav-sex (mile high club). Else....be silent please.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:49 am

Quoting N911YX (Reply 182):
The fact that this society puts up with such displays (her snatcx was on display boys and girls) says everything about the deteriorization of public decency. We don't have to put up with it.



Quoting N911YX (Reply 182):
You want it changed? Then JUST SAY NO. No more, no less, live by the rules of a civilized society or go elsewhere and live in anarchy.

I agree completely, and the ironic thing (which will continue to sail over the heads of many here) is that the other Customer (and not Keith) that was offended was indeed taking the very steps that you so aptly mentioned...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:06 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 185):
What is the rest of the story, in your opinion?

I have already stated my opinion many times in this thread. I do not think it would be wise for me to go into much more detail.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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Tugger
Topic Author
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:11 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 185):
e or even the slightest bit sexually suggestive. I have seen some decent lingerie worn with friends, and in a playful and partylike atmosphere.

Then you my friend have a very smokin' hot and sexually liberal woman at your side. In general, in the USA, lingerie is supposed to be sexy. You can go and show me a dictionary definition that says it just underwear but then why not call it underwear? If its sexy then its lingerie, if its not its underwear THAT's why. And I am very much a social liberal.

On the other side of this thing my wife pointed out quite rightly that this should have been handled by a female FA (Yes I understand that maybe this level of problem was Keith's job). It could have alleviated some of the issue. I think women are better at handling women (some have suggested that Keith was at a loss of words due to the problem).


This isn't mine,

Quoting N911YX (Reply 183):
Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
It says something about society, sure, but it's the world we live in.

it belongs to:

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 4):
It says something about society, sure, but it's the world we live in.

Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
Phoenix9
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:23 am

This story is being beaten to death and every version seems to have some difference.
Here is another link from a Toronto newspaper: http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/254499
Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
 
N911YX
Posts: 74
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:43 am

Quoting Tugger (Reply 188):
This isn't mine,

Sorry Tug, thot I was in MSYtristar's messasge when I quoted text.

I have had to turn away numerous non-revs for inappropriate dress over the years at the counter. YX has a strict policy on dress for non-revs. It is PLAINLY printed on the non-rev passes. No shorts or sandals, no warm-up suits or jogging pants, no midriff tops, In it's desire to stuff every possible butt in a seat many airlines have thrown in the towel and given-up on standards. I am proud to say we have not. Were this woman to be found to be displaying herself inappropriately I would tell her to put some undies on or return when she could. It's not a male/female issue, it's a human decency issue. In a different time not so long ago, her presentation would have been called slutty. Alas, we are too timid to call it what it really is. So much for politically correct thinking. It will eventually get us all killed.
The airline biz needs a Quantum Physic
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:08 am

Quoting Tugger (Reply 188):
Then you my friend have a very smokin' hot and sexually liberal woman at your side.

Yeah, I wish.  Wink


When the poster said (WARNING: EXPLICIT) about this girl's myspace page.....I was concerned that perhaps I should not look at it. However....I decided to take the leap and what a surprise I got. I did not see a thong-clad girl without a top, simulating sexual positions with her body or otherwise.....I did not even see her make a face as if she were in some kinda carnal ecstacy. I did not see her friends (guys and gals) touching on her, or simulating sex.

It looked like a get-together with good friends (when she posed with the guys) and a slumber-party when she posed with the girls. Nothing more.....I have seen worse at church-based functions. What I can tell you beyond any doubt is it was NOT explicit in any way.
 
DeC
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:23 am

"Remember What It Was Like Before Southwest Airlines? You Didn't Have Hostesses in Hotpants. Remember? (1972)" speaks for itself

DEC
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:00 am

Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
OK, I edited to remove the pic and not bust the copyright. Click here to see her pic (its worth it
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070905/images/braun220.jpg

So I ask our Southwest brethren (and sistren?) out there, what the hell was Keith's problem? It just sounds too bizarre.

Tug

Tug couldn't have said it better than if I sad it myself!

Being an employee with one of WN competitors FL for over five years I realize, the inflight crew has the final say in regards to their passengers airworthiness. And, 9 times out of 10 I'll back them up. However, if this happened at my gate this would have been that 1 time out of 10 I'd vehemently disagree with the flight attendant. Hello, check out many of the young and not so young women who pay our saleries by flying on our respective airlines! Different story if she had cooch fish funk odor or toe cheese that could fill the cabin with toxic air. I bet, if this woman was a 300 pound fatty who smelled like a cow, WN would have thought twice challenging them. Maybe they'd try to get said passenger to pony up an additional fare for being large. If Pam Anderson, Teri Hatcher or Cameron Diaz boarded wearing even less, chances are they would be escorted to their seat and served free drinks and peanuts.




http://www.181st.net/celebrity-galleries/Jeri-Ryan/pictures/Jeri-Ryan_xxx.jpg

I wonder if Keith would deem Jeri Ryan's sexy outfit and look as too revealing?

Let's face it, today, with higher passenger loads you're going to see many hotties wearing barley there clothse for flying.
The girls are younger, fitter, prettier and hotter overall all these days!  bouncy 
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
BA84
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:55 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 53):
Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 50):
Also, exactly what kind of interview was she going to that required that kind of attire?

A doctor's appointment! Not a job interview...

Obviously she was going to see her gynecologist.

BA84
 
RachelBDL
Posts: 64
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:41 am

Quoting Remcor (Reply 178):
Is there a woman reading this thread that could comment on her opinion about all this?



Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 187):
Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 185):
What is the rest of the story, in your opinion?

I have already stated my opinion many times in this thread. I do not think it would be wise for me to go into much more detail.

I've only posted once in this thread, so I'll add on a bit (will it ever end?) Even though I'm 3000 miles away, I feel like I've got a good idea of what happened on this flight. From what I've experienced in my 5+ years working for SWA, Customer Service Supervisors generally are not sitting around, watching the passengers board. Keith most likely was summoned to the gate because someone, probably a passenger, commented to the flight crew about Ms. Ebbert's attire. Maybe she bent over in line for boarding and exposed herself too much, or her skirt rode high while accessing the overhead bins. Keith asked her to step into the jetway to discuss it. It is extremely unlikely that the discussion occured in the forward galley. I've had to speak to passengers a few times myself, and NEVER have I made it clear to the rest of the flight what was being discussed, with the exception of the passenger is obviously intoxicated. She may have felf embarrassed, but I doubt the rest of the planeload of passengers had a clue why. She was not asked to cover up with a blanket, she admits she asked for one herself.

If you had a complaint about a passenger who you felt was inappropriate for any reason, and you reported it to someone, would you not be disappointed if nothing was done about it? Keith was simply doing his job. Ms. Ebbert is probably enjoying the fruits of her media fanfare, rolling in the tips at Hooters.

My opinion, as a female and not a WN employee? As long as she is covered, I don't care. If she's showing the world her goods in a public place, then YES she needed to be spoken to.
I not only drink the KoolAid, I do the Jello shots too!
 
USAirALB
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting FLALEFTY :If I had been the captain, I would have invited her up to the jump seat in the cockpit

good one!  laughing 
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Tom in NO
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting N911YX (Reply 182):
The fact that this society puts up with such displays (her snatcx was on display boys and girls) says everything about the deteriorization of public decency.

The most accurate assessment I've seen in this entire thread.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 184):
Nobody ever reads the mice-type.

I'm sure that's gotten all of us at some point or other in our lives.

Quoting N911YX (Reply 190):
So much for politically correct thinking. It will eventually get us all killed.

One of the many reasons why this country is socially so far behind where it was even ten years ago.

Quoting RachelBDL (Reply 195):
Ms. Ebbert is probably enjoying the fruits of her media fanfare, rolling in the tips at Hooters.

.....and as I said before, no doubt keeping the lines open to either Playboy, or, from what we've seen of her history, more likely Penthouse.

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
WesternA318
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:57 am

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 193):
If Pam Anderson, Teri Hatcher or Cameron Diaz boarded wearing even less, chances are they would be escorted to their seat and served free drinks and peanuts.

Yanno, I doubt either of these ladies would fly WN, come to think of it, well, except maybe Pam to see hubby (or ex?) Kid Rock in the double wide...
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Too Sexy To Fly? Southwest's New Attitude?

Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:26 pm

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 198):
Yanno, I doubt either of these ladies would fly WN, come to think of it, well, except maybe Pam to see hubby (or ex?) Kid Rock in the double wide...

You'd be surprised! Many celebrities fly the big three low cost carriers:

  • WN
  • FL
  • B6



Just like the rest of us, they're looking for the easiest and cheapest way from point A to point B. I'm not going to llist all of them but trust me, they've gone and nothing stopped them referring to one of our advertising tags FL.

Silver1SWA sent me a message which brought up some good points. Since he sent it to me, I'm not going to publish it. That is his choice. However, I felt I gave a decent reply that I feel is worth sharing.

I'm not personally bashing Keith. I
had a feeling some passengers
were "having kittens" over this
woman's outfit or lack thereof. How
come, we're not hearing about that?
Keith did his job. But, was it worth
going to this extreme? Not to play
Monday Morning captain but, where was
the Captain and First Officer in all
this? It seems as if Keith could be
made the scapegoat. Wouldn't a better
solution have been to just go over to
this girl's seat and privately talk to
her that other passengers were upset
about her wardrobe? If I was the
unlucky or in my case lucky guy to
talk to such a hottie, I'd just smile,
tell her other passengers were making
a big deal over nothing and for her to
be discreet during the short flight,
and maybe deplane last. Instead, this
whole thing is more grist for the mill
of the tabloids and late night talk
shows. Honestly some of these
passengers should get a life and enjoy
the damn flight. I personally as an
airline employee and passenger get
more ticked off at passengers who
can't control their kids, vandalize an
aircraft by using the cabin as their
dumpster, yapping on their cell phone
so all can hear, blast hip hop or
other music I don't want to hear
through their headsets. I could go on
and on but I feel I've covered this
topic.


Silver1SWA I do appreciate and respect your
opinion in this matter. "Zippyjet"





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