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warowl40
Topic Author
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:59 am

All Biz Class Flights

Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:03 am

I know that KLM offers all biz flights from AMS-IAH on a PrivatAir 73G, and I know there are the EOS and Maxjets of the world, but why don't more airlines offer this type of service?

I would venture to guess that a large portion of revenue on international flights comes from first and business fares, so why not offer dedicated premium service flights? For example when CO starts getting 787s, instead of phasing out the 762s, why not convert them to all bizfirst seats to compete with the other airlines offering similar service?
 
extspotter
Posts: 617
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 12:45 am

RE: All Biz Class Flights

Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:06 am

ANA has some all business class 73G(ER?)s and tehre are also other privatair flights operating for european airlines, I think they do at least one for Lufthansa.
AF BE BY FR MV PD SZ U2 VZ DHC6, 8-3/4Q, 732/8, 763ER, A319, A380
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18251
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: All Biz Class Flights

Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting Warowl40 (Thread starter):
why don't more airlines offer this type of service?

My guess would be 1) there aren't many markets that can support such a service separate from a traditional two/three/four class cabin and 2) the stand alone all biz-class carriers are losing money like it's going out of style.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
Wolborsk
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:38 pm

RE: All Biz Class Flights

Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:32 am

Quoting Warowl40 (Thread starter):
For example when CO starts getting 787s, instead of phasing out the 762s, why not convert them to all bizfirst seats to compete with the other airlines offering similar service?

I don't think Continental would do this...I wish they would, though. I think they should keep the 762s on the same routes and open up new ones with the 787.
 
COEI2007
Posts: 837
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:33 am

RE: All Biz Class Flights

Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:56 am

Quoting Wolborsk (Reply 3):
I don't think Continental would do this...I wish they would, though. I think they should keep the 762s on the same routes and open up new ones with the 787.

I dont think the 762's will be replaced as soon as the 78's arrive. I'd say they'll stick around for awhile, although you never know with fuel prices! 767's in all J would be a good idea, but its complicates operations. At present, if a 762 goes tech, a 772 or 752 can be used. A 762 with all J would be very hard to substitute!
 
cloudboy
Posts: 1124
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:38 pm

RE: All Biz Class Flights

Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:56 am

When it comes to business class, how much is really about full fare paying business passengers and how much is just upgrades for frequent fliers? In some ways, I think Business is more important as a bonus for loyalty than as a true standalone product.

What I do wonder is why no one has really started a premium economy product internationally?
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
fllcontinental
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:14 pm

RE: All Biz Class Flights

Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:32 pm

I personally believe it would be smart for an airline to divide the cabin in half Biz/Econ. Sort of like what Ted does with Premium Econ/Econ.
 
COEI2007
Posts: 837
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:33 am

RE: All Biz Class Flights

Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:13 am

Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 5):
When it comes to business class, how much is really about full fare paying business passengers and how much is just upgrades for frequent fliers? In some ways, I think Business is more important as a bonus for loyalty than as a true standalone product.

Whilst its definately a big plus for loyal fliers to get upgraded, and a key reason why pax are loyal to certain airlines/alliances, its not the main reason. Some routes, like BA's LGW-MCO have J class, and I had heard this was to keep Executive Club members happy, as they tend to burn their miles on this route! The importance of J cabins can be seen on LHR-JFK. If J was just to keep loyal fliers happy, EOS and MaxJet wouldnt be doing soo well!
 
ASEFlyer
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:06 am

RE: All Biz Class Flights

Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:09 pm

Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 5):
When it comes to business class, how much is really about full fare paying business passengers and how much is just upgrades for frequent fliers? In some ways, I think Business is more important as a bonus for loyalty than as a true standalone product.

Most international routes with the exception of leisure destinations...MCO, LAS, BDA, etc are not upgrades.

I do have a question: what do the airlines get when, for instance, someone upgrades their fare with amex points or when someone books a complimentary compnanion biz fare with their amex?

Why no all biz class IAH-Nigeria??! Or caracas...well..maybe not caracas, but you get my drift? How many other oil connections could be made out of IAH?
 
LHSTR
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 10:24 pm

RE: All Biz Class Flights

Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:23 pm

AFAIK the first business only long haul flights were LH flights, operated by Privateair, on DUS-EWR and DUS-ORD, later followed by MUC-EWR.

All these routes will be replaced by mainline either this winter or during next summer. It will be interesting where LH will position their All-Business-Class Jets.
 
Wolborsk
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:38 pm

RE: All Biz Class Flights

Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:34 pm

Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 5):
When it comes to business class, how much is really about full fare paying business passengers and how much is just upgrades for frequent fliers? In some ways, I think Business is more important as a bonus for loyalty than as a true standalone product.

What I do wonder is why no one has really started a premium economy product internationally?

I agree that business class should be offered for loyalty vs. as a product in and of itself. However, it's not lucrative for an airline to eliminate the paying customers in business and put frequent fliers up front instead.

As to international premium economy, SQ offers 5 two-class A345s
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Sin..._Air/Singapore_Air_Airbus_A345.php
 
helvknight
Posts: 784
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:35 pm

RE: All Biz Class Flights

Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:14 pm

Quoting LHSTR (Reply 9):
AFAIK the first business only long haul flights were LH flights, operated by Privateair, on DUS-EWR and DUS-ORD, later followed by MUC-EWR.

All these routes will be replaced by mainline either this winter or during next summer. It will be interesting where LH will position their All-Business-Class Jets.

There is also the ZRH - EWR flight operated on a BBJ by Privatair for LX. That one isn't going away yet.
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member - Groucho Marx
 
LXA340
Posts: 1178
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:55 pm

RE: All Biz Class Flights

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:22 am

Quoting LHSTR (Reply 9):
All these routes will be replaced by mainline either this winter or during next summer. It will be interesting where LH will position their All-Business-Class Jets.

LH is placing one of the Privatair planes to FRA and it will operate flights to NY not sure which airport, it will replace a mainline flight, I think it will go to JFK not sure though.

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