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WestJetYQQ
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Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:07 am

Here's the old one. Canadian Aviation Thread PT. 1 (by AC77W Apr 29 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Why does each state and even countries like Nigeria get avid threads about it's aviation, and Canada hasn't even got past one yet?  Wink

Anyway, the last thread talked about Sunwing's new schedules and destinations, WS and AC competition as usual among other things, Let's see what we can come up with this time.

- How's YYZ's renovation going? I was there in July and it was looking good.
- What do you think of YVR's plan for 2027?
- How long 'til the next Canadian airline goes belly up?
- What is WS's total fleet/orders/options as of now?
- How is the new interiors on Air Canada as compared to the old, and how are the 777's interiors?
- How about them floatplanes?

And other issues......  Smile



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rikkus67
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:42 am

Here is an WS question:


What are the chances that Westjet will ever provide regional services to smaller markets (local regional lines DBA) ? I have always envisioned the mainline fleet as WESTJET (of course), and the regional fleet as JR.(junior)JET... I know years ago Westjet did contact a number of small air carriers in Alberta for feedback on routes...
AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
 
FighterPilot
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:29 am

Quoting WestJetYQQ (Thread starter):
- How about them floatplanes?

Gotta love em!
I recently flew from the seaplane base in Atikokan to YQT in an amphibious Foundbrothers BushHawk
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k210/CanadianFighterPilot/IMG_7701.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k210/CanadianFighterPilot/IMG_7666.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k210/CanadianFighterPilot/IMG_7669.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k210/CanadianFighterPilot/IMG_7681.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k210/CanadianFighterPilot/IMG_7761.jpg

Quoting WestJetYQQ (Thread starter):
How's YYZ's renovation going?

I can't wait to fly through YYZ soon and get to see the new terminal.

P.S. nice choice of a picture  Wink

Cal  airplane 
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CanadianNorth
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:01 am

Random moment warning...

JLB is broken eh. Currently Air North 737-200 C-FJLB is chartered out to Canadian North for a couple weeks because they were having issues with getting another jet for themselves. Was reconfigured to all-Y 120 seats and we cleaned the f*** out of it last week, and it left YXY last monday. But apparently it is currently in either YEG or YYC with problems with a cargo door and the APU. However it is supposed to be flying in and out of Alberta, Winnipeg, and a few other places over the next two weeks....


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Photo © Simon Blakesley




On a related note, I hear the QCL charters are almost done, so for YVR spotters its getting close to your last chance to see those two Air North Hawkers based in YVR before they go home for the winter...


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © James Connor




CanadianNorth
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B747forever
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting WestJetYQQ (Thread starter):
- What do you think of YVR's plan for 2027?

What kind of plan does they have???

Quoting FighterPilot (Reply 2):

Really nice photos
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AC777LR
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:52 am

Quoting FighterPilot (Reply 2):
FighterPilot

Cal I am loving these pics man, this is what our country is all about. I gotta get my ass up there next summer for some fishing!!!!
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YVRLTN
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:53 am

Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 3):
I hear the QCL charters are almost done,

A couple more weeks I think, going to miss those Hawkers, and the Nolinor Convairs and the Dash 7.

Pasco are starting scheds to YYC ex YVR via YYF - bit of a long way to go in a B1900 for my likeing. Apparantly YYC will just be an add on to some of the YVR - YYF flights, but believe is being marketed more as a YYF to YYC flight rather than an WS / AC alternative for YVR / YYC - the cost YVR / YYF alone is comparable to a direct YVR / YYC flight anyway.

Anyone know if the Jade Cargo service SZN / PVG - YVR - IAH is still going to happen??

Also seems all the GSM flights are stopping by xmas - certainly out west anyway, and some YHM flights too. Was this always the plan or are they not doing too well?? I would have thought they would have stuck around for the busy xmas season. They had an awful start on the YYC / YVR service for sure which didnt really turn around until the Neos planes arrived.

Anyone go to the YXX airshow?? It was my first time there, and expecting it to be one of the top 5 airshows in the world (so like Farnborough or Fairford) I thought it sucked - though it was cool to see the brand new C17. Should have had at least half the static display do some flying, eg F15's, B52, C5.

Got in some spotting at YVR today - AC L10A Electra CF-TTC popped in!!! Beautiful bird, and lovely sounding engines. Anyone any idea why the visit?
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
ZBBYLW
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:04 am

Quoting WestJetYQQ (Thread starter):
How is the new interiors on Air Canada as compared to the old, and how are the 777's interiors?

In addition do this how about those 333s apparently they are getting done, however no schedule has been made up yet.

Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 3):

On a related note, I hear the QCL charters are almost done, so for YVR spotters its getting close to your last chance to see those two Air North Hawkers based in YVR before they go home for the winter...

HAHA, I fueled for Pasco on the ramp this summer. Every time I saw one of those howling beasts I ran away, I like loud airplanes but this is one that I just can not stand.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 6):
ot in some spotting at YVR today - AC L10A Electra CF-TTC popped in!!! Beautiful bird, and lovely sounding engines. Anyone any idea why the visit?

Probably a funraiser for Dreams Take flight - Air Canada's Charity

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 6):
Pasco are starting scheds to YYC ex YVR via YYF - bit of a long way to go in a B1900 for my likeing. Apparantly YYC will just be an add on to some of the YVR - YYF flights, but believe is being marketed more as a YYF to YYC flight rather than an WS / AC alternative for YVR / YYC - the cost YVR / YYF alone is comparable to a direct YVR / YYC flight anyway.

I also heard rumors that they were considering YVR-YKA-YVR but will only do so when they have another B1900 online and the fishing stops for the summer as Daryl Smith has said he will only go in there if he can have frequency.
Keep the shinny side up!
 
B747_A340
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:11 am

Yesterday I saw an Air Pacific B738 landing at YVR around 6:30. Anyone know what it was doing here?
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yvr1968
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:34 am

Quoting B747_A340 (Reply 8):
Yesterday I saw an Air Pacific B738 landing at YVR around 6:30. Anyone know what it was doing here?

Air Pacific is a regular at YVR. 2 weekly 738 YVR-HNL-NAN flights on Fridays and Sundays. So you will see it again!

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 7):
I also heard rumors that they were considering YVR-YKA-YVR but will only do so when they have another B1900 online and the fishing stops for the summer as Daryl Smith has said he will only go in there if he can have frequency.

YVR-YKA is a go.. check out this link.. http://pacific-coastal.com/live/home/?id=46&newsID=7

4 flights per day on their SAAB 340s. And with AC increasing YVR-YKA to 6 daily, this is a HUGE increase in capacity out of YKA.

Does anybody know the latest on the Metis TransPacific flights to Macau (operated by Primaris)? Their website says the flights are definitely launching 14 September (and looks like 3 x week) - how long is this to run for?

Other International YVR bits for winter 07/08:

Cathay to maintain HKG at 17 per week year-round (instead of 14 weekly last year)
Air China upguaging daily flight in winter sked to 330.
China Airlines shifting their daily 744 to late night departures.
Phillipine to keep the 5 x wk LAS and MNL flights throughout winter (instead of the 4 weekly)
Air Canada daily to SYD set to launch in a few months.
Air New Zealand to AKL set to launch 3 x week flights in November.
Air Canada adding ZIH and SJD to the sun network.
Air Canada to start flights to Santa Clara, Cuba (was in a press release but has this been confirmed?)
Oasis Hong Kong to maintain their 6 weekly flights which commenced just over 2 months ago.
Mexicana going up tp 10 weekly flights (instead of 9 last year).
Zoom up to 4 flights to Europe this winter (vs 3 last year)
Sunwing set to launch a winter campaign (6 flights weekly)
Air India rumoured to commence flights later this year / early next year "Air India also plans to introduce flights from Srinagar to Dubai by November and add flights to Vancouver and San Francisco to its list of destinations by January 2008."

So there is a fair bit on the cards for YVR's international terminal this upcoming winter.

Jet Airways has been given rights to operate charter flights. Any word on where/when this will happen?

[Edited 2007-09-09 04:48:22]
 
DYK
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:36 am

Quoting B747_A340 (Reply 8):
Yesterday I saw an Air Pacific B738 landing at YVR around 6:30. Anyone know what it was doing here?

I thought the pulled out but apparently they are operating 738 Friday and Sunday NAD-HNL-YVR vv. Always wondered what the loads are like on these flights?

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 6):
Anyone know if the Jade Cargo service SZN / PVG - YVR - IAH is still going to happen

Not happening for the time being anyways, they will operate SZN-PDX-DFW instead of SZN-YVR-IAH
AC,CP,PW,WD,ND,UA,AA,NW,CO,DL,WA,AS,QX,PR,SQ,AI,TG,MH,JL,9W,IC,UL,PG,BW,NZ,QF,DJ,BA,LH,KL,OA,OS,ME,RJ,HA,AQ
 
avrocomet
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:57 am

The next belly up Canadian Airline will be Air Canada. 2009 is the year, as every single union contract is set to expire. They all want everything back plus more since the bankruptcy. The unions will distroy this airline, and they will be gone.

The new flag carrier? Yep Westjet!
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:03 pm

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 7):
Every time I saw one of those howling beasts I ran away, I like loud airplanes but this is one that I just can not stand.

Sounds about right, I did hear a rumor in the ramp room a couple days ago that between the two Hawkers we based there for the summer charters and the 737-200s with JT8D-17s doing the sched flights we (Air North) are one of the if not the loudest airline in YVR right now.
Nothing like some screaming Hawkers, roaring JT8D-17s, and bright orange tails to attract attention to our little airline eh...


CanadianNorth
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STARalliance24
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:08 pm

Can anyone show me YVR's plans for 2027? Very interested!
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:39 pm

If you go to www.yvr.com you will see a section to do with their master plan http://www.yvr.com/authority/news/whatsnew.asp

For their 2027 Master Plan see http://www.yvr.com/yourairport2027/

Keep in mind that a final plan is in the works but there are a number of options that are open. Maybe someone from YVR can help. The website had an interactive document I can't seem to find right now that gave all the expansion options. Such as expanding the terminal eastward from the US section. It may have been moved or it may have been removed now that the public has had its chance to comment.
 
B747forever
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:39 pm

Quoting Pnwtraveler (Reply 14):

Thank you for the link. Now I know their master plan  Wink
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connies4ever
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:32 pm

Quoting Avrocomet (Reply 11):
The next belly up Canadian Airline will be Air Canada. 2009 is the year, as every single union contract is set to expire. They all want everything back plus more since the bankruptcy. The unions will distroy this airline, and they will be gone.

2009 will be a crucial year for AC, no doubt. I have to hope you're wrong about with your prediction, but both sides have shown in the past to be somewhat pig-headed. I just hope both sides can see that wages have to be commensurate with costs in a global market. Some giveback will have to happen, but i can't see all of it or else they're back to status quo ante.

As reported elsewhere, "The Bear" is opening up YOW - YKF services. I do hope it works out. Sometime ago there was a story floating around that Jazz were looking for a YKF airport manager -- don't know how much truth to that. I would guess they'd have been looking at DH1s YOW/YUL - YKF.
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airman99o
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:51 pm

Noone mentioned that Gibralt Capital Corp Purchasing 51% stake in Skyservice airlines. interesting times ahead for Skyservice.
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WestJetYQQ
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:55 am

Quoting YVR1968 (Reply 9):
YVR-YKA is a go.. check out this link.. http://pacific-coastal.com/live/home/?id=46&newsID=7

4 flights per day on their SAAB 340s. And with AC increasing YVR-YKA to 6 daily, this is a HUGE increase in capacity out of YKA.

How many flights was AC operating to YKA before?

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 16):
2009 will be a crucial year for AC, no doubt. I have to hope you're wrong about with your prediction, but both sides have shown in the past to be somewhat pig-headed. I just hope both sides can see that wages have to be commensurate with costs in a global market. Some giveback will have to happen, but i can't see all of it or else they're back to status quo ante.

There are probably a good number of Canadian airlines waiting for that year, hoping for something like a collapse. Could be interesting to see how this plays out, but If I had to guess, AC will figure something out, like the many other situations they've been in that would have landed another airline defunct.

[Edited 2007-09-09 20:05:39]
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GerbenYYZ
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:19 am

On a recent NZ flight bewteen AKL and SFO somebody mentioned that Qantas would be starting direct service between YVR and MEL. Can anyone confirm this?

Gerben
 
sstsomeday
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:28 am

My Canadian Aviation Interests/Beefs:

-How can YYZ get away with such exorbitant fees? I think the airport is partially responsible for pushing up the ticket prices on any route that connects through there.
-Why is Air Canada always more expensive to fly into Canada than NW or AA?
(I fly NW LAX-DTW-YOW or LAX-DTW-YXU)
(I fly AA LAX-ORD-YOW - although now I am learning to avoid ORD)
-Why are A/C's fees and taxes higher than on other airlines? They comprise sometimes 35% of the price of the ticket. With Canada having high taxes anyway, I don't understand why or how Air Canada's additional fees (Immigration, Nav charges, etc) should be so high, because these are really additional taxes for government services. And with Canadian taxes so high, why should YYZ (again) be charging such high fees?
-Why would A/C annoy prospective customers by quoting unrealistic prices when they deliberately avoid including all the additional fees until you choose your itinerary and are ready to purchase? The deceit makes me no longer go to AC first when I research a trip.
-When are we going to see some serious LLC competition within Canada and between Canada and the U.S.
-Air Canada's fees and taxes are so high for redeeming F.F. mileage (if you can find a seat at all) that on shorter segments it's not worth it to use the points AND pay the high fees. What gives?
-Is Air Canada still giving only half the frequent flyer points for advance purchase, domestic fares? That doesn't happen in The U.S. I suspect the answer to many of my questions, including this one, is a lack of effective competition. But the catch 22 is, the market is such that it cannot sustain two major airlines, apparently. Does that mean that for the many decades that AC and CP coexisted that AC was not profitable as a crown corporation at that time, or was it that because of regulation, that they largely did not compete directly (separate international routes)?

I'd like to see Air Canada enter into a partnership similar to Air France-KLM or at least the old NW/KLM partnership with an American airline - if it would help improve the product and lower the price. I get emails of these flashy "deals" from A/C offered "for only a limited time," and than I click on the link to find out that they actually want $950 to fly from LAX to Ontario, Canada, when Jet Blue is flying across the U.S. for $300 (both return). It's an insult to my intelligence to call such a fare a "deal."

Regarding the looming contract negotiations with AC's unions, I believe that since the fuel crisis and temporary turn-down in passenger traffic forced airlines to run more efficiently and now profitably, that the people who make the airlines run SHOULD get back some of what they gave up when the courts dissolved their contracts and slashed their pay and benefits.

Anyway - I hope you enjoyed my rant...
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RickYHM
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 6):
Also seems all the GSM flights are stopping by xmas - certainly out west anyway, and some YHM flights too. Was this always the plan or are they not doing too well?? I would have thought they would have stuck around for the busy xmas season. They had an awful start on the YYC / YVR service for sure which didnt really turn around until the Neos planes arrived.

GSM had planed to stop service for the lean winter season except for 2 destinations from YHM. To their surprise, the success of the service out of YHM was beyond their wildest dreams. The aircraft where close to or full on every flight! They have told the airport that they will be back next summer (08) with a program as big or bigger than this year. They are working on a bigger program for the winter of 08/09. The airport is working on some expansion plans to be ready for the summer of 08.
 
PilotRecruit
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:20 am

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 20):
Why are A/C's fees and taxes higher than on other airlines? They comprise sometimes 35% of the price of the ticket. With Canada having high taxes anyway, I don't understand why or how Air Canada's additional fees (Immigration, Nav charges, etc) should be so high, because these are really additional taxes for government services. And with Canadian taxes so high, why should YYZ (again) be charging such high fees?

I couldn't agree with you more than this. I know that Air Canada pleads innocence saying that the Canadian Government taxes them more than other Airlines, but I still have a hard time justifying such a massive difference in the "fare" price and what what we actually pay. I recently flew Emirates from Auckland to Heathrow and the total fare cost just over $1000 CDN, whereas my flight from LHR to YYC cost over $1800. Both were booked at the same time, so there were no close to flying date additional charges, so why the massive difference? Plus, the service difference between Emirates and Air Canada is like night and day. Emirates charges you less and gives you better service with better equipment. Why is it so much harder for AC? I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing AC, because I'm honestly not. Mostly just trying to figure out why our National airline is certainly not on the top 10 list of international carriers. We're Canadians and we take pride in everything we do. How come we've fallen short with the airline that is supposed to represent us in the skies?
"Whether you think you can or you can't, either way you're right." Henry Ford
 
9252fly
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:29 am

Quoting Avrocomet (Reply 11):
The next belly up Canadian Airline will be Air Canada. 2009 is the year, as every single union contract is set to expire. They all want everything back plus more since the bankruptcy. The unions will distroy this airline, and they will be gone.

Of course the unions want everything back,any union in any industry would approach a round of bargaining in the same fashion. If it makes you feel any better,AC has gone through a considerable evolution since it's bankruptcy restructuring. ACE have gutted the company as part of the plan formulated in 2003,with the intent to complete that plan by the time they have to sit down and bargain with the unions. They have sold off 77% control of Aeroplan,about the same for Technical Services,51% of Jazz. The units and associated employees effected will hardly be dealing with AC. Speaking of ACE,it will likely cease to exist by spring of next year,leaving AC,of which ACE controls about 75%,to take over control of it's minority stakes in Jazz,Technical Services and Aeroplan.

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 20):
Does that mean that for the many decades that AC and CP coexisted that AC was not profitable as a crown corporation at that time, or was it that because of regulation, that they largely did not compete directly (separate international routes)?

Times have changed since that era. Suffice to say that both carriers were money losers in a deregulated environment,with the exception for each carrier when they had an occasional profitable year.

Quoting PilotRecruit (Reply 22):
I recently flew Emirates from Auckland to Heathrow and the total fare cost just over $1000 CDN, whereas my flight from LHR to YYC cost over $1800.

Once you gain an appreciation of how yield management works in the airline industry,you can answer you own question. Let's just say it's purely driven by supply and demand. The fares you paid could have been easily reversed, and you would have been complaining about why EK was so expensive
 
DYK
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:52 am

I found this press release dated Sept 07.07 regarding a new bi-lat agreement btween Canada and NEw Zealand.

If I understand it correctly it gives both Canadian and NZ carriers fifth freedom rights?

Wondering if it is the case would it be feasible for NZ to operate a route AKL-YVR-LHR or FRA. I would think routing via YVR would be slightly shorter than via LAX ?


CANADA REACHES BLUE SKY AGREEMENT
WITH NEW ZEALAND
OTTAWA — An Open Skies air transport agreement between Canada and New Zealand was announced today by the Honourable Lawrence Cannon, Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, and the Honourable David Emerson, Minister of International Trade.

"I am pleased with the new air transport agreement with New Zealand, which is in line with Canada's Blue Sky international air transportation policy," said Minister Cannon. "This agreement marks another step forward in providing a greater range of options for Canadian travellers, shippers and businesses."

The new agreement allows any number of air carriers from either country to operate passenger and all-cargo scheduled air services as frequently as desired, to and from any point in either country's territory. Air carriers will also be able to pick up traffic in each other's territory and continue to a third country as part of a service to or from their home territory.

The agreement also provides for enhanced all-cargo rights, allowing stand-alone cargo services between each other's territory and third countries, and includes a fully flexible tariff regime.

"Canada is in tune with the needs of business and is taking action to address the evolving nature of air carrier services," said Minister Emerson. "Canada's new air agreement with New Zealand will improve access for business travellers, support more flexible air services and help increase the trade potential between our two countries."
AC,CP,PW,WD,ND,UA,AA,NW,CO,DL,WA,AS,QX,PR,SQ,AI,TG,MH,JL,9W,IC,UL,PG,BW,NZ,QF,DJ,BA,LH,KL,OA,OS,ME,RJ,HA,AQ
 
flyyul
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:15 am

ada Lets do an eastern canada update

Ottawa:
-New Air Canada service to LAS/YFC/YYT/YQM and more freq to YEG/YYC/YVR
-Bearskin to YKF 3 daily
-Continental Ottawa-Cleveland

Montreal:
-Air canada adding flights to TurksCaicos and Santa Clara, with expansion to Orlando
-Westjet cancelling tpa, but adding more FLL (what are the odd's?)
-Transat going year round to BCN and expanding to 3/7 next summer
-Royal Jordanian going year round with DTW-YUL-AMM with A340-200
-Air Algerie is going to 2/7 year round but talks of more freq
-Air France is supposed to add a 4th flight Summer 08
-Talks of Alitalia Montreal-Rome.... who knows
-Transat starting Montreal-Dublin/Basle
-USAirways using E175 this winter to PHL

Toronto:
-Air Canada service to Deer Lake, Shanghai year round
-Transat to start Toronto-Brussels
-JetAirways new 5/7 A330 to bru, but showing daily for summer 2008
-Emirates new 3/7.. im sure they want more
-Lufthansa new 5/7 DUS A340-300
-Cathay looking to YYZHKG nonstop
-wesjet adding punta cana / puerto plata nonstops
-American downgauging 4 YYZORD from M80 to ERJ145
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:36 am

Cathy workers are talking that the nonstop YYZ to HKG will be a second flight using a A340-600 and the existing A340-300 will still have a stop in Anchorage. Don't forget the through plane service on AC from YYZ to YVR to SYD on the 777LR starting this fall as well.

YVR is having a good year and I think we will see a fair bit of ongoing expansion there.

Once the new terminal expansion is complete I think Ottawa will see more new flights as well.

Hmmm for all the naysayers about YYZ and its fees seems to be ongoing new airlines and expanded service at YYZ. Hmmm also odd that all the anti AC people can't seem to explain why the airline keeps getting recongition in the North American market. Oh well I still am new enough to this forum that some things still don't make sense to me. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but I never expected to see such narrow thinking and biases and still trying to get used to it. The Boeing/Airbus crap is so stupid I can now just ignore it and hope that skill or defense mechanism will spread to other areas of nonsense.
 
WestJetYQQ
Topic Author
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RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:41 am

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 25):
-Westjet cancelling tpa, but adding more FLL (what are the odd's?)

Cancelling TPA? Didn't see that one coming. I thought they were enjoying a small Canada-Florida empire there.

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 25):
-Air Canada service to Deer Lake, Shanghai year round

Trying to compete with WS in Deer Lake as they ust added it recently as well, i assume.
Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4476
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:47 am

WS YYZYDF is seasonal, where AC will fly 4 weekly in the winter time.

WS figured extra YULFLL makes more $$$ than 3/7 TPA.. T100 shows load factors werent great either.
 
aircanada014
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:24 pm

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:25 am

Ottawa Highlights:
------------------

- Effective October 28, Air Canada will add new, year-round, non-stop
service to Fredericton using a 37-seat Dash 8-100 aircraft. Flights
will operate every business day, departing Ottawa at 18:45, arriving in
Fredericton at 21:42. Return flights from Fredericton will depart at
06:40, arriving in Ottawa at 07:55.
- Starting October 28, new daily non-stop services to Moncton with
50-seat CRJ aircraft, departing Ottawa at 19:25, arriving Moncton
22:05. Return flights will depart Moncton at 07:00, arriving in Ottawa
at 07:55
- Also starting October 28, Air Canada will introduce daily 93-seat,
Embraer E190 non-stop service between Ottawa and St. John's,
Newfoundland. Flights will depart Ottawa at 18:55 arriving St. John's
at 23:10, and return flights will leave St. John's at 06:00 arriving in
Ottawa at 07:45. These new flights will provide same plane,
through-service between St. John's and Calgary.
- Two new winter non-stop sun flights from Ottawa have been added to
Cancun and Montego Bay through Air Canada Vacations, each with Saturday
service aboard Embraer E190 aircraft starting December 22.
- Twice weekly Ottawa to Las Vegas service launched this summer will be
continued through the winter, and frequencies will be added between
Ottawa and Vancouver (3 daily non-stop flights), Calgary (3 daily
non-stop flights), Edmonton (2 daily non-stop flights), London, Ontario
(2 daily non-stop flights) and Boston (4 daily non-stop flights) for
the winter period.
>>

Montreal Highlights:
--------------------

Air Canada will add two new sun destinations from Montreal through Air
Canada Vacations this winter, with Thursday non-stop service to the Turks and
Caicos beginning December 20 and Sunday non-stops to Santa Clara, Cuba,
starting December 23. In addition, Air Canada will continue daily Boeing 777
service to Paris, featuring our new Executive First product with the only
truly lie-flat beds offered by a North American carrier in business class and
personal video systems throughout the aircraft. Finally, Air Canada will also
increase frequencies at peak periods between Montreal and Montego Bay (two
non-stop, weekly flights), Orlando (10 non-stop, weekly flights), and Quebec
City (17 daily flights).

Maritime Highlights:
--------------------

In the Maritimes, Air Canada will commence daily non-stop services from
St. John's, Newfoundland, and Moncton to Ottawa, and new non-stop service
every business day from Fredericton to Ottawa. There will also be one-stop
daily single plane service from St. John's, Newfoundland, to each of Calgary,
Edmonton and Fort McMurray. Service between Halifax and Gander will be
upgraded to operate twice daily using 50-seat, CRJ aircraft. Summer services
that will continue through the winter include Toronto to Deer Lake and
Charlottetown, Halifax to New York/La Guardia, and St. John's to Deer Lake.
Air Canada will also continue to evaluate opportunities for future expansion
in Saint John, N.B.


Pretty neat EMB E190 will be flying to MBJ from YOW along with YOW and CUN EMB E190
 
yow
Posts: 2125
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:47 pm

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:37 pm

A few more updates for the east:

Ottawa
WS keeping YVR daily year-round
Kinda cool that the new 2nd daily to YXU is on a CRJ
Sunwing more than doubling sun capacity this winter
Long-term: Zoom increasing GLA to 2x/week and LGW to 3x/week, but might use the 757 exclusively out of YOW next summer, but that still equates to at least a 30% capacity increase.

Quebec City
Sunwing are basing a 738 at YQB for the winter.

London
Transat Holidays and Sunquest entering the marketplace.
 
mel
Posts: 1066
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 5:13 am

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:42 pm

Apparently the Vancouver-San Diego route is switching from JAZZ CRJs to Air Canada EMB-190s this winter. It's good to see (seasonal) Calgary-Palm Springs is also changing from JAZZ CRJ-705s to Air Canada EMB-190s.
NO URLS in signature
 
flyyul
Posts: 4476
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:26 pm

Good to see all this growth in YOW.. the airport stat are going to look for '08. If they dont Andrew, like I said previously, you lose your right to complain about lack of service at YOW  Wink
 
macilree
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:13 pm

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:11 pm

Quoting DYK (Reply 24):
If I understand it correctly it gives both Canadian and NZ carriers fifth freedom rights?

Correct, the new Canada-New Zealand Blue Sky agreement we negotiated includes a comprehensive exchange of fifth freedom rights.

Quoting DYK (Reply 24):
Wondering if it is the case would it be feasible for NZ to operate a route AKL-YVR-LHR or FRA. I would think routing via YVR would be slightly shorter than via LAX ?

Again correct from an air rights perspective, although think about airport slot availability at LHR and FRA, and note that AC and NZ already have a very close code-share relationship.

New Zealand already has the necessary open air services arrangements in separate bilaterals with the UK and with Germany. The 2005 New Zealand-UK air services agreement actually exchanges all nine freedoms of the air.

Great Circle Mapper gives via YVR as being shorter to LHR by 168nm.

There have also been media statements on the Blue Sky agreement put out by the New Zealand Prime Minister (click here) and Air New Zealand (click here).
John Macilree
 
DH8PU
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:49 am

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:40 pm

Quoting MEL (Reply 31):
Apparently the Vancouver-San Diego route is switching from JAZZ CRJs to Air Canada EMB-190s this winter. It's good to see (seasonal) Calgary-Palm Springs is also changing from JAZZ CRJ-705s to Air Canada EMB-190s.

Thats where the extra 705s are coming from......YQT.YQB and YQM will all see the CRJ705 next month out of YYZ
Cabin secure and doors checked
 
FighterPilot
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:27 am

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:53 pm

Quoting DH8PU (Reply 34):
Thats where the extra 705s are coming from......YQT.YQB and YQM will all see the CRJ705 next month out of YYZ

The 705's are only seasonal are they not, just during the winter? Has there ever been any interest in bringing more 705's or even something bigger like the ERJ's or the A320's like back in the day?

Cal  airplane 
*Insert Sound Of GE90 Spooling Up Here*
 
DH8PU
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:49 am

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:46 pm

The 705s are constantly shifting around depending on demand. The summer months they seem to be mainly based in YYC/YVR, This month for example out of YYZ we only have them for YXE, YQR and a few flights to YWG. In the winter they seem to migrate back towards YYZ.

I would be very very surprised to ever see any of the Jazz cities (YXE,YQR,YQT,YQB,YQM,YSJ,YFC just to name a few) go back to EMB175s/190s or A320s
Cabin secure and doors checked
 
cayman
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:28 am

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:52 pm

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 25):
-American downgauging 4 YYZORD from M80 to ERJ145

Does this mean all AA flights on YYZ ORD will be ERJs, no more MD80s at all?
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2644
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:58 pm

Quoting FighterPilot (Reply 2):
I can't wait to fly through YYZ soon and get to see the new terminal.


I shall try and post a TR in about a months time....will be flying thru' YYZ.... smile 
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2644
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:58 pm

Quoting FighterPilot (Reply 2):
I can't wait to fly through YYZ soon and get to see the new terminal.


I shall try and post a TR in about a months time....will be flying thru' YYZ T1.... smile 
 
flyyul
Posts: 4476
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:18 pm

Still 3 mainline flights on YYZORD.

Canada-US is becoming mostly small gauge these days... miss seeing AA/NW 757s in YYZ
 
FighterPilot
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:27 am

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:38 pm

Quoting DH8PU (Reply 36):
I would be very very surprised to ever see any of the Jazz cities (YXE,YQR,YQT,YQB,YQM,YSJ,YFC just to name a few) go back to EMB175s/190s or A320s

Yeah YQT isn't exactly booming, at 109,140 the city has actually decreased in size from 113,662 in '96. I would be nice to see mainline AC back there someday, but thats just wishful thinking. On that note it would be nice to see WS return to YAM again some time. It would be nice to see something big like a 737 out there while flying the Zlin.

Cal  airplane 
*Insert Sound Of GE90 Spooling Up Here*
 
LXA340
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:55 pm

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:53 pm

what is the latest status of the Air Canada XM project, how many planes are done as of now?
 
9252fly
Posts: 1204
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:13 am

Quoting DH8PU (Reply 36):
I would be very very surprised to ever see any of the Jazz cities (YXE,YQR,YQT,YQB,YQM,YSJ,YFC just to name a few) go back to EMB175s/190s or A320s

I can't speak for each one of those cities specifically,expect to see those cities that have CRJ 100/200's possibly see upguages to 705's and those that have 705's today upguage to E190's. AC has had about 30 of the 45 E190's on order delivered,with the last 15 to be delivered within six months. That's a lot of aircraft that need to be utilized somewhere,granted,the A319/A320 fleet has number of aircraft going out on sublease or being returned to the lessors over the same period. This is part of the fleet plan developed back in 2003 that will be complete late next year.
 
yow
Posts: 2125
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:47 pm

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:22 am

Quoting FighterPilot (Reply 41):
Yeah YQT isn't exactly booming, at 109,140 the city has actually decreased in size from 113,662 in '96. I would be nice to see mainline AC back there someday, but thats just wishful thinking. On that note it would be nice to see WS return to YAM again some time. It would be nice to see something big like a 737 out there while flying the Zlin.

Actually YQT is having a very good year. YTD through June their traffic is up almost 12%.
 
FighterPilot
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:27 am

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting YOW (Reply 44):
Actually YQT is having a very good year.

Yeah the traffic, looking online at AC's site the seat maps show most flights almost full with 3-4 empty seats. I was referring to the city with the American dollar and wood mills not doing the greatest.

Cal  airplane 
*Insert Sound Of GE90 Spooling Up Here*
 
ZBBYLW
Posts: 1625
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:17 am

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:02 am

So far YLW has done well we now have 3 CRA flights vs. the one we used to have. As well during the winter we will see a 319 daily as well. I assume the YYZ flight will be a E90 for the winter. Anyone know exact numbers by how much their narrow body fleet is increasing taking into account Airbus's leaving the fleet, as well as weather its increasing the total amount of narrow body seats or just a/c?
Keep the shinny side up!
 
pnwtraveler
Posts: 1074
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:12 am

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:07 am

The new terminal at YYZ is quite efficient, bright, easy to navigate and works quite well. A massive improvement. However the new thinking applies here, have minimal services outside of the security zone to encourage people to go through customs or security early - especially for international flights. Near the domestic arm E on the departures level before security is just one magazine store, a Wolfgang Puck Express, Starbucks, and one restaurant with table service or self serve counter serving mediocre food. There is a travel store that carries purses and travel gear that a friend swears has some of the best purses around. zzzz lol. Terminal Three is just a short people mover trip away and has many more stores outside of security and the attached Sheraton Hotel.

Inside of security at T1 there is a bunch of stores and different eating options - more utilitarian than the Wolfgang Puck. there are windows everywhere and it is possible to see the airfield in a number of areas from both before and after security. I feel the terminal is a little anticeptic and cold without the warmth of DCA and none of the real local flavours like YVR has for the BC and Vancouver area. However it does the job very well. The first class lounges are excellent. Line-ups at checkin seem long to me for economy class customers but that is more airline policy than the airport. The push is to get boarding cards online or from the self-serve terminals.

I haven't been through US Customs in the building but hear that it is a huge improvement from Terminal 2 (now being demolished) and better than Terminal 3. It appears much better suited to handle the flow of traffic but hey it is still customs and it would be too much to expect any government body to be too efficient - at least you can't blame the facility though lol.

I wish the local museums etc. had stores or at least one store stocked all the items from the cultural groups here a la DCA and LGA.

It is an airport though so there will always be some people who hate it and can't find anything right with it - I see this in almost every city I travel to. Some people will hate it just because it is Toronto. Is there any airport anymore that is universally loved? I think since 9/11 and even before, travel has ceased to be a fun thing for some and an ordeal that has to complained about.
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2990
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:33 am

Quoting Avrocomet (Reply 11):
The next belly up Canadian Airline will be Air Canada. 2009 is the year, as every single union contract is set to expire. They all want everything back plus more since the bankruptcy. The unions will distroy this airline, and they will be gone.

The new flag carrier? Yep Westjet!

A warning....  footinmouth 

I remember making a similar post regarding DL over 2 years ago when it looked like they were going bust. The unions made compromises the airline was streamlined and now they are out of bankruptcy with a new livery.

I can't imagine a 777 or a 787 in Westjet colors.  laughing 
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
PilotRecruit
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:36 am

RE: Canadian Aviation Thread - Terrible #2!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:48 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 48):
I can't imagine a 777 or a 787 in Westjet colors.

I try to imagine that because I think it would look fantastic!
"Whether you think you can or you can't, either way you're right." Henry Ford

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