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deltasju777
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Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:22 am

I know Iceland only has about 300,000 population, but why don't any US airlines fly there from the NE US. It's only about 2200 NM from JFK, 2500 NM from ORD, and 2100 NM from BOS. These are hubs for US majors AA, UA and DL not to mention CO from EWR and the distance is within range of a 738 from all of these hubs. I think there must be some sort of market, even if it is a small one (once or twice weekly) from the US mainland. Are any airlines planning this like DL with there new 757s or CO with more 738's coming in the next year? Does this route require ETOPS since the route remains close to land almost the whole way?
 
rfields5421
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:29 am

Since the 70's that I've been aware of the flights - Icelandic airlines have provided sufficient service to meet any demand on routes from the US to Iceland.

It's a hard sell to the US tourist market - and a community with an area population of just 300,000 doesn't merit much major air service in the US, much less a foreign market without an extensive tourism advertisting campaign.

Iceland is one of the places left on my MUST SEE list - but without beaches and palm trees (other than the ones RADM Dan Gallery had built outside the Kef O'Club) it's not a place which a lot of other americans want to visit.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
Evan767
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:34 am

This is a great question. I've always wanted to visit Iceland.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
andaman
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:03 pm

There are 18 times more Finns than Icelanders, and still no US carriers serving Finland  Wink
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
sw733
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:06 pm

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 1):
It's a hard sell to the US tourist market

Yeah...it's hard enough to get people to go to Alaska outside of May to September, and there's no passport needed or different language spoken there. Most Americans prefer Summer to Winter based on my experiences having lived in the US for a total of...gosh, almost 7 of my 23 years. Even living in Kansas, where summer temperatures average almost 100 degrees F, people cannot WAIT for summer, and cannot WAIT for winters to end. Now, try getting people to vacation to a cold place...it's tough. Americans want to go south most of the time - why your Puerto Rico is so darned popular.

But they are sure missing a beautiful place.
 
CitrusCritter
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:07 pm

Quoting Andaman (Reply 3):

Yeah, well I'd sure like to go to Finland. Maybe one of the US carriers will hurry up.
- CitrusCritter
Long Live the 717!
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sw733
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:13 pm

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 5):
Yeah, well I'd sure like to go to Finland. Maybe one of the US carriers will hurry up.

Try Finnair?
 
andaman
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:17 pm

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 5):

Yeah, well I'd sure like to go to Finland. Maybe one of the US carriers will hurry up.

You can try some of the non-US carriers flying to Finland  Wink
Seriously speaking, I find it bit annoying that I can fly non-stop to four cities in China and three in Japan from my home town, but only to NYC in US.

But Icelanders are great, just met some Icelandic guys in my local bar one day, drinking 'cheap' Finnish beer like no tomorrow!
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
atmx2000
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:18 pm

Quoting Andaman (Reply 7):
You can try some of the non-US carriers flying to Finland  
Seriously speaking, I find it bit annoying that I can fly non-stop to four cities in China and three in Japan from my home town, but only to NYC in US.

Well, I suppose its partly because Finns want to turn Helsinki into a hub for Asia bound travel from Europe. While they could try and serve the US, they face competition from European airlines with hubs in western Europe like BA, AF, and LH which have more substantial route networks to the US.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
andaman
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:54 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 8):

Well, I suppose its partly because Finns want to turn Helsinki into a hub for Asia bound travel from Europe. While they could try and serve the US, they face competition from European airlines with hubs in western Europe like BA, AF, and LH which have more substantial route networks to the US.

Yes thats how it goes... would be just great to get to US West Coast non-stop again.
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
PGNCS
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:05 pm

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 1):
It's a hard sell to the US tourist market - and a community with an area population of just 300,000 doesn't merit much major air service in the US, much less a foreign market without an extensive tourism advertisting campaign.

Iceland is one of the places left on my MUST SEE list - but without beaches and palm trees (other than the ones RADM Dan Gallery had built outside the Kef O'Club) it's not a place which a lot of other americans want to visit.

It's not a tough sell at all seasonally. Have you ever been on Icelandair in July or August? The aircraft are PACKED, and although many transit to mainland Europe, most stay in Iceland. Iceland is a place that many Americans (including yourself, apparently) want to visit. It is far more entertaining than any tropical destination I have ever been to, and is an easy sell in the summer. As for your wish to see it: do it ASAP; I promise you will not regret it. It is by far my favorite of all the places I have ever been (and I am an international pilot for a major airline).

Quoting SW733 (Reply 4):
Yeah...it's hard enough to get people to go to Alaska outside of May to September, and there's no passport needed or different language spoken there. Most Americans prefer Summer to Winter based on my experiences having lived in the US for a total of...gosh, almost 7 of my 23 years. Even living in Kansas, where summer temperatures average almost 100 degrees F, people cannot WAIT for summer, and cannot WAIT for winters to end. Now, try getting people to vacation to a cold place...it's tough. Americans want to go south most of the time - why your Puerto Rico is so darned popular.

Icelanders speak English, and most take US dollars. I love Alaska, too, but Iceland is much more interesting. Iceland is not cold in the summer, and is not as cold as the northern US in the winter (unless you go to northwestern Iceland, which is nearly deserted, and inaccessible in the winter, anyway.)

The main point here is that Iceland is a seasonal destination, and would be nice to service for many airlines, but is not perceived as being as high a priority as other markets for scarce international capable aircraft at this point. Personally, I think that's a mistake.
 
sw733
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:16 pm

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 10):
Icelanders speak English, and most take US dollars

Yes, but...they're still a foreign country. And many Americans would rather just stay in America, even if Iceland is a beautiful place. Lots of people are nervous of international travel, especially in the Post-9/11 era. That, and the older Americans who like to go to Alaska get nervous travelling overseas because of health care reasons (Iceland may have better health care than the USA, but that doesn't mean insurance covers it, etc.). Just things I've noticed that could lead to the lack of US-Iceland routes outside of the wonderful Icelandair.

But my post is getting away from Aviation and more into non-av form.
 
notdownnlocked
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:48 pm

What is the distance from ATL-KEF and could DL fly that with the 757ers or 737-700s?
 
maddog888
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:09 pm

Quoting Notdownnlocked (Reply 12):
What is the distance from ATL-KEF and could DL fly that with the 757ers or 737-700s?





ATL (33°38'12"N 84°25'41"W) KEF (63°59'06"N 22°36'20"W) 31° (NE) 3316 mi



According to great circle mapper it is 3316 miles so the 757 ought to be able to do it (but not according to Delta's web site stats -or is their own data out of date?).

Maddog

(edits to try to get GCM data to dispaly correctly with little to no success.  Confused
[Edited 2007-09-09 13:19:04]

[Edited 2007-09-09 13:21:38]

[Edited 2007-09-09 13:24:25]
 
PGNCS
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:40 pm

Quoting SW733 (Reply 11):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 10):
Icelanders speak English, and most take US dollars

Yes, but...they're still a foreign country. And many Americans would rather just stay in America, even if Iceland is a beautiful place. Lots of people are nervous of international travel, especially in the Post-9/11 era. That, and the older Americans who like to go to Alaska get nervous travelling overseas because of health care reasons (Iceland may have better health care than the USA, but that doesn't mean insurance covers it, etc.). Just things I've noticed that could lead to the lack of US-Iceland routes outside of the wonderful Icelandair.

I don't disagree with you that some people would rather stay in the US, but international travel is growing rapidly, more rapidly at the legacy carriers (especially Delta) than domestic travel on an ASM basis. What I said was that Icelandair is full in high season because the demand for tickets is astronomical, as are the prices for the tickets. It is a seasonal endeavor from the US. Not everyone who travels to Alaska is old, either, and most older Americans take out travel insurance for substantial trips.
 
scalebuilder
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:48 pm

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 10):
I promise you will not regret it. It is by far my favorite of all the places I have ever been

And I can only second that. Iceland is packed with history, has nature that is simple and basic but yet spectacular, but certainly also a country that is very sophisticated and modern. I was very impressed that an island hours away by flight from any continent could be right on the "cutting edge".

Iceland could never be the typical "inclusive tour destination" like you find in warm tropical climates. Iceland is adventure...not relaxation. That would limit the tourist market accordingly.

I think Icelandair pretty much covers the need for air service both to Europe as well as to the US. They rely heavily on transit traffic, and have done extremely well in my mind.
Go the extra mile......and avoid the traffic!!!
 
PGNCS
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:51 pm

Quoting Scalebuilder (Reply 15):
Iceland could never be the typical "inclusive tour destination" like you find in warm tropical climates. Iceland is adventure...not relaxation. That would limit the tourist market accordingly.

Totally agree on this one, and thank goodness for that!
 
TransIsland
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:40 pm

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 10):
Have you ever been on Icelandair in July or August? The aircraft are PACKED, and although many transit to mainland Europe, most stay in Iceland.

I flew JKF-KEF-SXF and back on FI this summer (July), and indeed the 752 was packed (my son and I still had a row to ourselves, though at least on one leg that was the only empty seat on the plane).


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Stephen B. Aranha



However, my impression was not that most pax remained in Iceland. While we were sitting at the gate waiting for our flight to Berlin, there were a lot of "familiar" faces at that gate - and the various gates close by to other European destinations. In fact, FI is advertising themselves as the airline connecting North American and Europe through Iceland.

The flow of people exiting the JFK flight and moving towards other gates rather than the baggage claim was impressive.
I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:27 pm

I am sure DL or CO could do a 2x or 3x weekly service to KEF and still make money.

Hunter
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sw733
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 14):
What I said was that Icelandair is full in high season because the demand for tickets is astronomical, as are the prices for the tickets. It is a seasonal endeavor from the US.

I agree it's a very seasonal affair, indeed much like Alaska. And in the end, I am still somewhat surprised no airlines (I'm looking at you CO) has not really tried a summer nonstop to Keflavik (at least not anytime soon). But, I am sure Icelandair is happy!  Smile

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 14):
Not everyone who travels to Alaska is old, either, and most older Americans take out travel insurance for substantial trips.

Oh I know, I finally dragged my girlfriend to Alaska just a few months ago after wanting to go for YEARS...and I am 23 (she's the "old one", at 24...uh oh, hope she doesn't read this  Wink).
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:56 am

I think that one of the big US major carriers could run a 73NG or A319 ETOPS from the northeast to Iceland 5x/week over the summer tourism months and make money if they advertise it decently... esp with a US hub to feed it.

Quoting Andaman (Reply 3):
There are 18 times more Finns than Icelanders, and still no US carriers serving Finland Wink

Well, you've got the AA codeshare on Finnair flights to contend with, and I guess other pax are happy connecting through European hubs?

I'm sure if you give DL long enough, you'll see a flight there.

Quoting SW733 (Reply 6):
Try Finnair?

And one of those charter airline style sardine can 10 abreast MD-11's? I'm sure their A340s are comfortable and what not, but 10 abreast in a MD-11 is just no good.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
andaman
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:30 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 20):

Well, you've got the AA codeshare on Finnair flights to contend with, and I guess other pax are happy connecting through European hubs?

The connecting works fine too but would like to get non stop to US West Coast, like in good old days, to SEA, LAX, SFO...

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 20):

And one of those charter airline style sardine can 10 abreast MD-11's? I'm sure their A340s are comfortable and what not, but 10 abreast in a MD-11 is just no good.

On Finnair MD11 I have only experienced the 9 abreast section in the front Y, but if the 10 breast seating back there is as tight as on Emirates 777, I totally agree...On EK the great ICE entertainment system helped a lot though.

[Edited 2007-09-09 19:34:23]
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
FI642
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:41 am

Icelandair serves the American market very well. During peak season (summer) flights are all
oversold. Reykjavik is a hot spot right now because it's clean and safe. Great bars, nightlife,
and food. The natural beauty of the country is truly amazing.

The ride from the airport to downtown is truly amazing. If you've done it you know what I mean!

When you go: make certain to get a hot dog downtown. My mouth is watering for one right now!
737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
 
Evan767
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:42 am

So, can a DL 738 or 73G make it from JFK-KEF? If one can, then I think Delta should take a serious look at this market.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
cslusarc
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:10 am

The 73G or 73W can make it to KEF easily from NYC without any route deviations from the Great Circle Route on 90-minute ETOPS rules. Although JFK-KEF is 2593 miles, it is 8 miles closer than EWR at 2601 miles. I doubt that JFK will work for DL because I the poor quality of connections when compared to CO at EWR. [Note that NYC-KEF has a similar distance to NYC-SFO, and is closer than Ecuador (currently served with 737NGs by CO) to NYC.]
--cslusarc from YWG
 
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Bruce
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:26 am

Why does Icelandair fly to MSP? I mean, of all the American cities - and they go to Minneapolis, daily?

bruce
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bobnwa
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:05 am

Quoting Bruce (Reply 25):
Why does Icelandair fly to MSP? I mean, of all the American cities - and they go to Minneapolis, daily?

The Minneapolis area has a large Scandanavian population and Icelandair is fairly large in Scandanavia. Iceland has close political ties to Denmark.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:06 am

Quoting Bruce (Reply 25):
Why does Icelandair fly to MSP? I mean, of all the American cities - and they go to Minneapolis, daily?

Lots of Scandinavians in Minnesota.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
flyboy_se
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:17 am

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 1):
Since the 70's that I've been aware of the flights - Icelandic airlines have provided sufficient service to meet any demand on routes from the US to Iceland.

it is actually Icelandair not Icelandic Airlines
I prefer to be crazy and happy rather than normal and bitter
 
KBGRbillT
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:05 am

Quoting Notdownnlocked (Reply 12):
DL fly that with the 757ers

B757ER?? I don't think so!
 
nomadic
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 10):
Iceland is a place that many Americans (including yourself, apparently) want to visit.

I work aboard a cruise ship and our company visits Iceland every summer. This past July we stopped at no less than FIVE Icelandic ports. Most of our guests are from the United States and they are astounded how beautiful the place is. The vast majority say they would definately return for an extended stay. Quite a few have asked me what airlines fly there and they are not at all familiar with Icelandair.

nomadic :?)
 
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centrair
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:22 am

Quoting Bruce (Reply 25):
Why does Icelandair fly to MSP? I mean, of all the American cities - and they go to Minneapolis, daily?

Not just all the Johnsons and Lindeholms, but amazing O&D. Remember MSP has many Fortune 500 companies. NW serves AMS and LGW from MSP which is great. AMS gives great feed to many cities via KLM. FI can give good feed as well and meet the general market. They fly to most major cities in Europe and that is enough. Their costs are also competitive.
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
ANX4fishing
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:15 am

Btw, Iceland is not a Scandinavian country, however it does belong to the Nordic countires.

ANX
 
cslusarc
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:42 am

Quoting ANX4fishing (Reply 32):
Iceland is not a Scandinavian country

True, but Icelandic is a Scandinavian language, with similar linguistic origins to Norwegian, Danish and Sweedish.
--cslusarc from YWG
 
sw733
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:09 pm

Quoting Flyboy_se (Reply 28):
it is actually Icelandair not Icelandic Airlines

I think he means "airlines of Iceland", not Icelandair. Could be wrong...often am.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 27):
Lots of Scandinavians in Minnesota.



Quoting ANX4fishing (Reply 32):
Btw, Iceland is not a Scandinavian country, however it does belong to the Nordic countires.



Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 33):
True, but Icelandic is a Scandinavian language, with similar linguistic origins to Norwegian, Danish and Sweedish.

Probably, with their often good fares, a lot of people use Iceland as a transit point between Scandinavia and Minnesota/Wisconsin/North Dakota?
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:48 pm

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 2):
This is a great question. I've always wanted to visit Iceland.

Iceland is an amazing place. I've been twice and would love to go back. It's amazing the number of people in the US who still think it is literally covered with ice.  embarrassed 

Quoting Scalebuilder (Reply 15):
Iceland could never be the typical "inclusive tour destination" like you find in warm tropical climates. Iceland is adventure...not relaxation. That would limit the tourist market accordingly.

Agreed. The rugged terrain makes for great hiking and climbing. Not going to get much beach traffic there.

I recall those ads where Loftleidiir (not sure if I'm spelling that right) used to promote cheap fares to Europe, specifically Luxembourg. It's a shame they no longer fly there.

AFAIK, Pan Am is the only US carrier from the jet age that actually flew there. I know NW Orient from time to time showed Reykjavik on their route map, but they showed lots of trans-Atlantic routes and destinations they were "authorized" to fly but never did. IMO, I don't see a US airline ever flying there. FI does have great service.
 
Icelandair
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:41 pm

Quoting ANX4fishing (Reply 32):

Scandinavian in what? Geographics? History? Language? Economics?

There are a lot of ways of defining what is Scandinavian and what isn't and in a lot of those, Iceland will be count as a Scandinavian country. Esp. given the fact that Icelandic is the language closest to Nordish, the language which all Germanic languages derived from there is a strong link between Scandinavia mainland and Iceland and you will find a lot of people that would tell you that it is rather Iceland than Finland that belongs to Scandinavia.
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andaman
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:57 pm

Quoting Icelandair (Reply 36):

Scandinavian in what? Geographics? History? Language? Economics?

There are a lot of ways of defining what is Scandinavian and what isn't and in a lot of those, Iceland will be count as a Scandinavian country. Esp. given the fact that Icelandic is the language closest to Nordish, the language which all Germanic languages derived from there is a strong link between Scandinavia mainland and Iceland and you will find a lot of people that would tell you that it is rather Iceland than Finland that belongs to Scandinavia.

This is a never ending story....

I think the official answear is:
Denmark, Norway and Sweden make Scandinavia and when you add Finland and Iceland, you get the Nordic area.
Practically people, coming outside the area, often mean the whole Nordic area when they talk about Scandinavia.
Anyway, these five countries are linked so many ways, all small Lutheran protestant nations, with rather similar societies.



Sorry, he we go off the topic again  

[Edited 2007-09-10 15:10:31]
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
rfields5421
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:04 pm

Quoting Flyboy_se (Reply 28):
Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 1):
Since the 70's that I've been aware of the flights - Icelandic airlines have provided sufficient service to meet any demand on routes from the US to Iceland.

it is actually Icelandair not Icelandic Airlines



Quoting SW733 (Reply 34):

I think he means "airlines of Iceland", not Icelandair. Could be wrong...often am.

You're right - in this context I was speaking of airlines from Iceland.

But to be accurate - when I first looked into going to Europe as a just out of high school kid - the cheapest way was to fly to Keflavik on the DC-8 of Icelandic Airlines - RON at least one night - then on to Europe. Same for the return. (This was before the merger where Icelandair was created).

Never made it - instead betting a lovely tour of Southeast Asia courtesy of the US Navy.

I have several friends who served in Kef - and always wanted to get there. I'd much prefer to live two years in a country than visit for a couple weeks.

Never had the timing work out. But retirement will be here in a few years - the around the island drive is what I want to do for a vacation.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
nomadic
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting Scalebuilder (Reply 15):
Iceland could never be the typical "inclusive tour destination" like you find in warm tropical climates. Iceland is adventure...not relaxation.

You are forgetting the palm trees and indorr waterfall at Perlan (the Pearl) Dome in Reykjavik, tours of the thermally-heated greenhouse 'banana plantations' and of course the huge thermal springs pool & spa at the Blue Lagoon, between Reykjavik and Keflavik.


nomadic :?)
 
eaa3
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:57 pm

Icelandair always fuels their planes so that they can continue to Glasgow if the weather isn´t good enough to land in Iceland. This means that it´s not necessarily a question of whether the 737-800 can make it to Iceland but rather whether it can make it to Glasgow from the United States.

This happens every once in a while. Due to some storm in Iceland Icelandair sends all it´s planes to Glasgow, that is they simply fly over Iceland and to Scotland, and creates a temporary hub there i.e. operates flights to their European destinations from there with all the passengers that were connecting anyway.

For this reason the smallest aircraft that can truly operate this route is the 757.
 
iadguy73
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:10 am

Quoting Icelandair (Reply 36):
Esp. given the fact that Icelandic is the language closest to Nordish, the language which all Germanic languages derived from there is a strong link between Scandinavia mainland and Iceland and you will find a lot of people that would tell you that it is rather Iceland than Finland that belongs to Scandinavia

 checkmark 

As a matter of fact, Finish belongs to the entirely different Uralian language family and is related to Hungarian and Estonian while Norwegian, Danish, Swedish and Icelandic belong to Germanic branch of the Indo-European language family which encompasses almost all European languages. Sorry off topic but I couldn't resist!... Big grin
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:32 am

Quoting Notdownnlocked (Reply 12):
What is the distance from ATL-KEF and could DL fly that with the 757ers or 737-700s?

I dont think DL would do ATL-KEF, I think JFK-KEF would be more likely.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 23):
So, can a DL 738 or 73G make it from JFK-KEF? If one can, then I think Delta should take a serious look at this market.

I would like to see them do it too. Another option would be for CO to try EWR-KEF. I think they could do it with 73G. A 738 might be too much plane.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
rfields5421
Posts: 6207
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:41 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 42):
I would like to see them do it too. Another option would be for CO to try EWR-KEF. I think they could do it with 73G. A 738 might be too much plane.

Rember alternates have to be part of the FP - and for Keflavik - they have to be Sonde Stromfijord, Greenland or Scotland.

I believe the only other ILS equipped airport in Iceland besides Kef and Rekyjavik is Egilsstadir - 6,500 ft.

An Iceland flight from the NYC area needs a 3,000 nm minimum range.

[Edited 2007-09-10 20:44:15]
Not all who wander are lost.
 
andaman
Posts: 2271
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:29 am

RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:09 am

Quoting IADguy73 (Reply 41):



As a matter of fact, Finish belongs to the entirely different Uralian language family and is related to Hungarian and Estonian while Norwegian, Danish, Swedish and Icelandic belong to Germanic branch of the Indo-European language family which encompasses almost all European languages. Sorry off topic but I couldn't resist!...

Still so of the topic but... also Swedish is an official language in Finland, Finland was part of the Swedish kingdom for 600y. And Finnish is spoken in the Northern-Sweden.
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:28 am

Quoting Deltasju777 (Thread starter):
I think there must be some sort of market, even if it is a small one (once or twice weekly) from the US mainland.

A once or twice weekly international service would be very unattractive to business travellers, and very costly to operate. Putting an entire crew up in a hotel in Reykjavik (not one of the world's cheapest destinations) for several days between flights would be a very expensive and inefficient use of resources. And, for a US carrier, service to Iceland would be strictly origin-destination traffic, whiile FI depnds for much of the year on connecting traffic to other points in Europe.

There used to be a significant US military presence in Iceland with several thousand personnel based there, including F-15 fighters and P-3 anti-submarine patrol aircraft. However the US military ended its long presence in Iceland a year ago. See the followiing news items and related US State Department press releases.
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?...ion=104&article=36480&archive=true
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...ml?xml=/news/2006/07/21/wice21.xml
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2006/73138.htm
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2006/73855.htms
 
okay
Posts: 642
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:11 pm

RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:12 am

Quoting Icelandair (Reply 36):

Sorry off topic, but could not resist to write my two cents. It is funny how the people in Nordic countries are in some matters so "stick together" and then sometimes so much excluding each other. For example this Scnadinavia matter and how to define this.

I have learned at school that Scandinavia as a geographic term is actually the Scandinavian peninsula. This defines Scandinavia to include only Norway and Sweden.

However, Scandinavia as a term has so many other meanings, it really depends how one looks at it. Culturally all Nordic countries have similarities as well as some very distinctive characteristics of their own (I noticed this when I lived in Stockholm, I am originally from Helsinki). Linguistically Norway, Sweden, Iceland and Denmark are very close, when again Finnish is in deed a language belonging to another language group.

However, this is where the history steps into the picture. When Finland was part of Sweden, Swedish language and culture was heavily imposed in the area now known as Finland. Basically there was no Finnish speaking upper class, for example. This has resulted to the present situation where a dialect of Swedish language called Finnish Swedish is still spoken by roughly 6 percent of the Finnish population (including for example my family from my father's side). In this way Sweden and Finland share a strong cultural bind and history.

It seems to me sometimes that Swedish, Danish, Norwegians and Icelandic people do not like if Finland is considered as part of Scandinavia. I have adopted in my speaking the words Nordic country, when I refer to my origins.

Anyway, back to topic guys =)

okAY

[Edited 2007-09-12 17:17:17]
 
chumley
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:39 am

RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:20 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 35):
Quoting Scalebuilder (Reply 15): Iceland could never be the typical "inclusive tour destination" like you find in warm tropical climates. Iceland is adventure...not relaxation. That would limit the tourist market accordingly. Agreed. The rugged terrain makes for great hiking and climbing. Not going to get much beach traffic there.

With this in mind, could any airline make seasonal service work from the "more outdoors/active" west coast cities? DEN, SLC, PDX, SEA? I don't see a US carrier doing it.
 
YULWinterSkies
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:42 pm

RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:39 am

Quoting ANX4fishing (Reply 32):
Btw, Iceland is not a Scandinavian country, however it does belong to the Nordic countires.

Regardless of whether Iceland is a Scandinavian country (it is not geographically but is culturally), it is still the airline which offers the best network between the N US and Scandinavian countries, and also why they serve MSP daily (the main "American-Scandinavian" city by far)

To stick to the topic, I think that Icelanders (who still make for a good part of flyers to Iceland) are very proud of and loyal to their home airline, also FI is not in one of the big-3 alliances and offers its own FF program, so FFs to Iceland (=the high-revenue flyers) have a FI FF card and hence will likely not switch to a US airline.

Agreed that Iceland is great, and Americans who want to go there will still find a good offer through FI from as much as SFO, BOS, MSP, JFK (all major hubs!), and good fares off-season if they're ready to get uncertain weather and mostly unaccessible inland (eg October is cheap and still reasonable weather-wise).
When I doubt... go running!
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Why No US Airlines To Iceland

Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:43 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 18):
I am sure DL or CO could do a 2x or 3x weekly service to KEF and still make money.

Hunter

I am sure that they could not make money.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 23):
So, can a DL 738 or 73G make it from JFK-KEF? If one can, then I think Delta should take a serious look at this market.

Look at it, sure........but fly it, I hope not.

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 35):
AFAIK, Pan Am is the only US carrier from the jet age that actually flew there. I know NW Orient from time to time showed Reykjavik on their route map, but they showed lots of trans-Atlantic routes and destinations they were "authorized" to fly but never did. IMO, I don't see a US airline ever flying there. FI does have great service

Correct........although I dont agree that FI has great service.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 42):
I would like to see them do it too. Another option would be for CO to try EWR-KEF. I think they could do it with 73G. A 738 might be too much plane.

What is the obsession with Iceland.......it would look ""cool"" on a route map?

------------------------

Iceland is a niche destination, those travelling between the US and Iceland are well served by Icelandair, most pax that visit Iceland do so as part of a stopover package when travelling between US and the EU, and those that live in Iceland fly will Icelandair to the US or EU for biz travel and some leisure travel, and also have the option of holiday flights to European beach/holiday destinations. There is simply not enough demand for any US carrier to fly to Iceland with reasonable frequency (even DL from ATL or CO from EWR)....... CO, for example, rarely serves destinations on a 1 or 2 times per week schedule, it raises costs and tends to harm yields. The idea of using smaller airplanes on a route to Iceland is also not the answer, there is very little premium demand to/from Iceland and many pax visiting or transiting Iceland are lower fare oriented, thus the operating economics of a 73G/738 on this route would not work even (per seat costs are too high) even if it could be operated with out load restrictions (the segment is a bit long for both the 738 and 73G).

Iceland comes up so often here at a.net........US carriers dont (yet) fly to many countries world wide, ""why dont US airlines serve Kenya"" is never discussed, but the Iceland discussion comes up every few months. Odd.

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