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Mach3
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FAA And What Will It Take

Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:28 am

What will it take to get the FAA do do its job and do it right? Over the last decade the FAA has done more to cripple flying the advancing it. Poor Management, inability to implement new programs, spending money on equipment that doesn't work.

Who will replace Marion Blakely? Will it be someone with good management skills from the Aviation community, or just another lap dog for the administration?

Were Gerry Grinstine a younger man I'd nominate him. The FAA needs an aviation grounded head that doesn't take BS and can get all its management to take responsibility for fouling up!

The so called NexGen system is still not up and running, yet Blakely and company want to raise user fees across the board so they can waste ever more money?

Its not really the Airlines that have caused the delays this summer in air travel. It's a system that was designed when Ike was president. Patch Patch Patch the system and make it work!

Millions if nor billions of dollars sit in the Airport and Airways Fund that Congress doesn't spend so they can offset the National Debt! Both GA and the Airlines are afraid top bring that up since the FAA has the ticket book to fine them.

How much more money that we the users of the airways let the FAA squander on programs that don't work and managers that can not find both cheeks of their bums without the use of a seeing eye dog?
If you pull on the Tiger's tail, better be prepared for him to bite you in the ARSE
 
JetJock22
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:42 am

You might as well set yourself on fire because you are gonna get flammed  flamed 
 
futurecaptain
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:47 am

Quoting Mach3 (Thread starter):
What will it take to get the FAA do do its job and do it right?

The same thing it has taken throughout history. Blood.

The FAR's are written in the blood of the people who have died in past aviation accidents. They are who have made the US the safest ATC system in the world.
AirSO. ASpaceO. ASOnline. ASO.com ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:48 am

Quoting Mach3 (Thread starter):
Who will replace Marion Blakely? Will it be someone with good management skills from the Aviation community, or just another lap dog for the administration?

Top candidate for the important FAA COO position appears to be Hank Krakowski of United Airlines.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...s/chi-070910united,0,6188996.story

Announcement is due this week according to Blakely whom steps down on Thursday. Previous COO Russ Chew left for Jetblue earlier in the year.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Mach3
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:51 am

Why should I get FLAMED for saying the truth? If I am FLAMED it only proves that people do not want to face the truth! Europe does not seem to have the problems that we have here! The EU seems to have the handle on flight control that the FAA doesn't!

There is no more flight operations this year then last! However the irresponsible Marion Blakely said prior to the Labor Day holiday that passengers should expect flight delays and bring a book! That's a real smart statement from the head of a government agency.
If you pull on the Tiger's tail, better be prepared for him to bite you in the ARSE
 
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LAXintl
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:55 am

Btw- here is a thread from last week that delved off into the state of the US ATC system.

As you can see I brought up the fact of the much overdue and needed shake up along with possibly even privatize the the US system as has successfully been done in several foreign countries only to be shot down by a few ATC fellas defending the efficiency and safety of the great American ATC system.  banghead 
JetBlue Splits With ATA Over FAA User Fees (by Laxintl Sep 3 2007 in Civil Aviation)
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Mach3
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:19 am

Do you really think that privatizing the system will help? I don't!!!! We are going to have to first find people who have a deep sense of responsibility, commitment to safety (but the BS aside) put their nose to the grindstone and get equipment and programs up and running dang fast. Get rid of the old senior management at the FAA who are just treading water til retirement and have no talent! What scares me is that this younger generation is so flash in the pan oriented that they have proven they act before they think.

I know there are capable men ans women out there, but how many morons will we have to go through to make they system good and what we pay for.

Let's not forget the home finance business and the troubles its going through. To many ME ME ME fast talking fools in it. That can happen at the FAA If it looks good on the outside but has really so little substance inside they will go for it. Its already happened.

Karkowski will have to be given such broad powers to clean the FAA up I doubt he'll get them!!! To many dollars, to many ego's and to many power mad people have to much to say if Krakowski is given a free hand.
If you pull on the Tiger's tail, better be prepared for him to bite you in the ARSE
 
SPREE34
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:42 am

Quoting Mach3 (Thread starter):
What will it take to get the FAA do do its job and do it right? Over the last decade the FAA has done more to cripple flying the advancing it. Poor Management, inability to implement new programs, spending money on equipment that doesn't work.

It's a political thinking vs operational. As long as a political hack is in charge progress, if any, will be slow. Congress has a lot more to do with this than is understood. If congress and the administration would agree on hiring competent management, then leave them to do the job without politics being involved it would help. Firing those who don't hack it would be a great improvement too.

Quoting Mach3 (Thread starter):
Who will replace Marion Blakely? Will it be someone with good management skills from the Aviation community, or just another lap dog for the administration?

See Above.

Quoting Mach3 (Thread starter):
Its not really the Airlines that have caused the delays this summer in air travel. It's a system that was designed when Ike was president. Patch Patch Patch the system and make it work!

Really? They are selling tickets and scheduling flights into fields where sufficient runway is not available to accommodate what they have sold.

Is that the fault of ATC? No, and those who have real knowledge of its workings understand why.

Is it the FAA's fault for not promoting runway construction and airport improvements? I think so. ATC improvements are overdue as well, and they are not the reason for the major delays. What do you think?

Is it the fault of the airlines for not ensuring the infrastructure was there to support their growth? I think so. Poor planning. What do you think?

Is it the fault of private and business aircraft? No. They are not the ones clogging the major airports, and they ARE the ones paying the penalties in en route airspace so the airlines can play their game.

Quoting Mach3 (Thread starter):
Millions if nor billions of dollars sit in the Airport and Airways Fund that Congress doesn't spend so they can offset the National Debt! Both GA and the Airlines are afraid top bring that up since the FAA has the ticket book to fine them.

There you have the political culpability covered.

Quoting Mach3 (Reply 4):
Why should I get FLAMED for saying the truth? If I am FLAMED it only proves that people do not want to face the truth! Europe does not seem to have the problems that we have here! The EU seems to have the handle on flight control that the FAA doesn't!

What are you using for reference when you say Europe doesn't seem to have these problems. From what I've seen ( Yes, visited their facility) and read they do have these problems. They too are trying to improve, and they have much bigger issues than we have to conquer.

No flames. I would, however, like to engage you in some dialogue here. We may agree on some points, not on others, and hopefully teach each other something.
What has prompted you to make the above statements. What reports/material from what sources leads you to these statements.

Quoting JetJock22 (Reply 1):
You might as well set yourself on fire because you are going to get flamed

Still true. Just try and enjoy the ride.
You will see a lot of truths, untruths, repeating of what the airline magazine said, repeating of what "my brother inlaw said etc etc etc. Just support what you have to say and don't take anything personal.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
Mach3
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:57 am

So Krakowski is going to possibly the new COO. That's not Administrator! COO's have come from within the industry. One can only wounder what pressures have been place on COO's to cow tow to the FAA head. Bush will be out in a year and who knows who will be in. The lives of the public should net be put in the hands of political HACKS of either party. Where lives on the ground and in the air are concerned dollars MUST be spent to make us all safe. Republicans (and I am one) side on the side of industry. Democrat's say they are on the side of the common man. In reality neither one have a handle on realty!

We have a stupid press that are believing the BS at the FAA Living in Dreamland isn't going to work!

(1) The FAA needs a leader with guts and foresight free of political pressure

(2) Release the money from the Airport and Airways Fund! Its small in its amount compared to the Billions of dollar Congress squanders! Trying to offset the billions of dollars spent on pork!

(3) Get busy along with the industry and hand in hand solve the ATC problems

(4) Develop and built the programs and equipment and get then up and running fast! We have the ability we just need the commitment

Am I the one living in Dreamland or can it be done?
If you pull on the Tiger's tail, better be prepared for him to bite you in the ARSE
 
Mach3
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:27 am

Spree My hat goes off to you for being in ATC and having to endure the pressures and problems of pee poor management at the top. I was ATC&W in the Air Force and then went into flying.

As to what has prompted me to bring this subject up is the American public needs to see that their lives are a stake because of political HACKS and their money is being wasted! How any controller at any level in the system can put up with the POS equipment they have to work with, put in the long hours in a pressure cooker, keep their sanity is beyond me. Regardless if you like him or hate him Mike Boyd calls it like it is even when you wage trough his ego BS.

The money is there to improve all systems ie runways, towers, support facilities. Congress just will not release it for what it was intended.

Yes airlines do have some responsibility in the mess but they are just giving the public what it demands. Flight Ops have not increased 2006 to 2007 yet the system can handle it. I know weather has played into the problem but over worked under paid under equipt unable to communicate properly and with the speed needed controllers have done miracles.

If I'm Flamed so be it! I will not take it to heart in anyway. I'm an old fighter jock and I'll just shake my head an thank GOD I don't have the flamers as my wing man

Keep in mind my Motto "if you are going to pull the tigers tail, nell try and bite you in the Arse"

[Edited 2007-09-11 04:28:44]
If you pull on the Tiger's tail, better be prepared for him to bite you in the ARSE
 
Mir
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:41 am

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 2):
The same thing it has taken throughout history. Blood.

The FAR's are written in the blood of the people who have died in past aviation accidents. They are who have made the US the safest ATC system in the world.

Nobody gets killed by delays, which is why there's no real impetus to solve the problems that are causing them.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
As you can see I brought up the fact of the much overdue and needed shake up along with possibly even privatize the the US system as has successfully been done in several foreign countries only to be shot down by a few ATC fellas defending the efficiency and safety of the great American ATC system.

And rightly so. When things get privatised, safety takes a back seat to profit. The FAA is already going for a private-style ATC system, with costs driving the operation. And the results are evident - an unhappy, overworked ATC force. And a tower in LEX that should have had two controllers in it but didn't.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
SPREE34
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:57 am

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 2):
The FAR's are written in the blood of the people who have died in past aviation accidents. They are who have made the US the safest ATC system in the world.

How do/did the FARs and dead passengers make "the safest ATC system in the world"? Could you expound on this a bit please?

ATC is not governed by the FARs. They (ATC) are directed by other documents and orders that work in concert with the FARs in some situations.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:43 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
Previous COO Russ Chew left for Jetblue earlier in the year.

Thank goodness....with him running JetBlue expect similar results from what was found at AA and the FAA....HORRID.

Quoting Mach3 (Reply 6):
We are going to have to first find people who have a deep sense of responsibility, commitment to safety (but the BS aside) put their nose to the grindstone and get equipment and programs up and running dang fast. Get rid of the old senior management at the FAA who are just treading water til retirement and have no talent! What scares me is that this younger generation is so flash in the pan oriented that they have proven they act before they think.

YOU GO MACH3....excellent points. And I will ad to this, get people in positions of management who have an idea of exactly how a particular option is run......way too many enroute background managers running the terminal arena and vice versa. Put them in areas they grew up with and stop trying to make the approach controls act like centers, we don't want those silly snitch patches that are being developed which will do nothing but slow down an already delayed system by having controllers add another mile in order to keep the terminal snitch from setting off alarms.

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 7):
Is it the FAA's fault for not promoting runway construction and airport improvements? I think so. ATC improvements are overdue as well, and they are not the reason for the major delays

While I agree with your view I also have to add that the 1940's thinking and criteria used to develop standards used by ATC and operators alike MUST be changed and changed NOW.

Why is it that in Australia, Qantas Airlines who started flying RNP airplanes and procedures only a couple of years back will sometime around the end of this month have accrued more RNP approaches flown than Alaska Airlines which has been involved in RNP work since about 1996? FAA Flight Standards and the antique procedural issues that they mandate which are long past their useful life.

Then the push to implement RNAV (RNP) approaches at airports with multiple parallel runways such as DFW, IAH, ATL, CVG, LAX, DEN to name a few, and not having ATC procedures in place to be able to operate these approaches in dual and triple independent configurations. The ATC handbook barely spells RNP let alone have it addressed for ATC at these mentioned airports in order to utilize the procedures without waivers to the 7110.65 paragraphs which address simultaneous ops. Oh, then there are oh so many operators certified to conduct RNP approaches, hell there are only a handful of U.S. flag carriers who even have RNAV (GPS) approaches in their ops specs.

Quoting Mir (Reply 10):
The FAA is already going for a private-style ATC system, with costs driving the operation. And the results are evident - an unhappy, overworked ATC force.

Oh for sure, and getting more unhappy with each passing 6 day work week.....and at some ATC facilities the overtime is so great due to staffing shortages that Supervisors are calling in Supervisors to work not as a Supervisor but a controller for the 8-10 hours of overtime........but yet staffing is adequate according to what you read from the FAA!  thumbsdown 

This is going to be a fun thread!
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
pilotpip
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:19 pm

The FAA is rife with false starts on programs that have cost BILLIONS and net nothing. MLS approaches, mode S tcad systems, LORAN, etc. This really goes back longer than Blakely. It really started with Elizabeth Dole when she cut a number of projects that had obtainable results in the forseeable future. As a result, we were left with the antequated system we have today. They're still maintaining VOR and NDB systems that are in excess of 50 years old while GPS has been established and reliable for years. WAAS was supposed to be online and nationwide by 2004 and we still only have a handful of approaches using it.

ATC is taking it on the chin. They're working harder, and getting less. I had a flight last week that had to be filed through FSS. Dispatch somehow managed to get a VFR flight plan with a filed altitude of FL350. Hmmmm.

And then there's the red tape. It's not 1950 anymore and it's time the feds cut some of the beaurocracy. Get rid of the BS and let the FSDO do their jobs. Quit being reactionary.
DMI
 
JetJock22
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:15 pm

Quoting Iahflyr (Reply 12):
Thank goodness....with him running JetBlue expect similar results from what was found at AA and the FAA....HORRID.

Care to elaborate or are you just going to leave it up to our interpretation of how you might feel about the guy?
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:21 pm

Quoting JetJock22 (Reply 14):
Care to elaborate or are you just going to leave it up to our interpretation of how you might feel about the guy?

It isn't a feeling it the reality of having lived through the era and seen the chaos within the Air Traffic Organization and who really is on first! Maybe things will be different at JetBlue, but then again maybe not.

And, creative imaginations are always good! New call sign, Jetchew!

[Edited 2007-09-11 13:24:07]
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
contrails
Posts: 1314
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2000 11:53 pm

RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:04 pm

Quoting Mach3 (Reply 4):
Why should I get FLAMED for saying the truth?

Agreed. The truth needs to be spoken. There are some very serious problems at the FAA that need to be fixed. I don't know what the answer is, maybe privatization, maybe more oversight by Congress, maybe something else.

We need to have a civil and objective discussion of this very serious issue.

Quoting Mach3 (Reply 4):
There is no more flight operations this year then last! However the irresponsible Marion Blakely said prior to the Labor Day holiday that passengers should expect flight delays and bring a book! That's a real smart statement from the head of a government agency.

I absolutely agree. I was one of those Labor Day holiday pax, and I was very irritated when I heard her comment. Btw, I had no problems at all, no delays, just smooth flying.
Flying Colors Forever!
 
goaliemn
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:58 pm

They've privatized the weather stations and its not been good. Do some searches on complaints about long hold times and guys not knowing the local weather patterns. Before, when you called for a weather briefing, you usually got a guy in the same state, who knows the area.. Now, you get a new hire half way across the country..

I'd hate to see ATC go downhill like that..
 
j.mo
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
As you can see I brought up the fact of the much overdue and needed shake up along with possibly even privatize the the US system as has successfully been done in several foreign countries only to be shot down by a few ATC fellas defending the efficiency and safety of the great American ATC system

Privatization is working out real well with Flight service. Wink Just ask anyone trying to use it. Hell, I work in a tower and WE have trouble getting a hold of them.

Here is a site you may want to check out. Pretty much speaks volumes on how many controllers feel these days.

http://www.faafollies.com/

JM
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting J.mo (Reply 18):
Here is a site you may want to check out. Pretty much speaks volumes on how many controllers feel these days.

Thanks for the link and I'd say that link pretty much says it all.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
Mach3
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:49 am

Once again Marion Blakley has opened her big mouth and ignored any responsibility for this summers delays. In an article www.abcnews.go.com/teavelstory?id=3587776&page=1 she is saying that if the Airlines are the only culprit for the delays. She says nothing about weather, and GOD Forbid anything about her agency trying to get 10# of crap into a five pound bag. Over worked controllers, system based on 1950 technology, managers flexing the power and ego's. Its all the Airlines FAULT!!!!!! Nothing is said about the FAA or Congress not releasing funds from the Airport and Airways Fund that each and every traveler pays into! That fund was supposed to be used for system upgrades and construction for needed runways and other facilities. What industry does the idiot woman come from? Better yet what planet?

Sure you can't keep schedules due to weather delays. That 3:00 flight held in a holding pattern for an hour is going to run into the path of a 4:00 arrival that is going to be held till the planes in front of it have landed. Yes maybe the airlines are somewhat guilty of the delays, but its the FAA and the programs in flight control, that is mandated to come up with and implement this is truly at fault. Poor leadership. poor managers, no responsibility to anyone, that is the real problem.

We should all say a prayer that Marion Blakley is leaving!!!!!! She believes the BS her managers are telling her.

Change is needed now !!!! Get someone from within the industry to head the FAA!!!

Blakley should go to work as the head of the FFA, she certinly knows how to shovel BS!!!!!!
If you pull on the Tiger's tail, better be prepared for him to bite you in the ARSE
 
Mach3
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:12 am

What really scares me is that in the World's Largest Aviation Forum so many of us here in the US are more interested in posting comments about Delta's new Livery, or Will WN come to MSP or which airline interior is the best, and continue to ignore a very real threat to all of us. The threat? Why of course its the FAA!!!! An agency mired in incompetent administrators, managers and a completely ignorant Congress!

Each and every passenger pays into the fund when they purchase a ticket. Airlines pay into the fund as tax's on their aircraft operations and fuel purchases.

Over the years management has squandered millions upon millions of dollars on systems that don't work, and we are still using a 1970's system in the 21st century. In short we are 30yrs behind the times. Aircraft are bigger, passenger demand more service. Airports need more runways, and above all the grunts on the ground (the controllers) need better up to date equipment and faster ways to communicate between centers. All they get is Managers with Ego's tell them its coming and you had better dress better for work or you'll be fined or fired!

Computers are old ans breaking down. Radios are wearing out and causing communication problems. And yet management keeps saying that things are peachy, don't worry new systems are just around the corner. But they can't get them up and running even they systems they have ready

So we on Airliners.Net ignore reality and keep on talking about how bad service was ox A airline. The pitch of a seat, what the bimbo across from them was wearing.

Once though a Whale Jet or a 74 and a CRJ collide we will all be on here trying to guess what caused it or who was at fault!

Well guess who is really at fault, its the FAA Administration and its Senior Management.

We need to get mad and let Congress know that it has to end the years of BS and mismanagement at the FAA and make it stand Accountable to the people who pay the freight US.
If you pull on the Tiger's tail, better be prepared for him to bite you in the ARSE
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 4317
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:38 pm

Quoting Mach3 (Reply 21):
Over the years management has squandered millions upon millions of dollars on systems that don't work, and we are still using a 1970's system in the 21st century. In short we are 30yrs behind the times. Aircraft are bigger, passenger demand more service. Airports need more runways, and above all the grunts on the ground (the controllers) need better up to date equipment and faster ways to communicate between centers. All they get is Managers with Ego's tell them its coming and you had better dress better for work or you'll be fined or fired!

 highfive 

Quoting Mach3 (Reply 21):
We need to get mad and let Congress know that it has to end the years of BS and mismanagement at the FAA and make it stand Accountable to the people who pay the freight US.

It is sad when operators CEO/COO/CFO don't seem to be able to even put a dent in this by standing on Congressional people desks until it is solved. Just one example, numerous aircraft have the capability in place today and have had in place to save millions of dollars each week in fuel savings and time by allowing the aircraft FMC's to compute an economical descent to a runway such as UPS has shown on their flights into SDF.

Example, an operational demonstration with an operator who is desiring to explore the efficiencies that may be gained with a CDA is shut down because someone in a regional office or at FAA HQ is worried about a slight change in altitude profiles (higher not lower) over the same existing ground track that has been in place for at least 15 years may upset or change an environmental assessment so they shut it down....and we are speaking of 3-4 demo aircraft a day, that is just plain BS!

I applaud Mach3's passion in this area even if not always the missiles fired!  Smile
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
Mach3
Topic Author
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RE: FAA And What Will It Take

Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:02 pm

Thank you IAHFLYR

My passion on this issue and the TSA (even though I have not stated it) is Huge and comes from years of dealing with the FAA and reading articled about it. I wish someone here had the ability to research the Airport and Airways Trust Fund disbursements. I don't have the computer savvy to do that. I do know that billions of dollars are in the fund yet so little is really being spent on improvement, and that money that is going to the FAA is being wasted.

The system worked and worked well in the days of the DC-8 and 707, and even as late as 1990. But since then the 767's and soon to come 787 and 747-400 have been brought into the picture with customers demanding more choices of flights are cheap fares and the airlines are stupid enough to Its no wounder in the initial fare wars prior to 9/11 the airlines started to loose money. When the bottom fell out after 9/11 things went to pot with the Airlines. The FAA and its system is going to brake down because its OLD and full of flights that are going to airports that don't have the infrastructure to handle it. Its not cities or counties that are responsible alone to build more Runways and control procedures. That rest's in the hands of the FAA Its their respectability to identify this and provide the money for it that they have been collecting since 1970. Billions upon billions of dollars have been collected and millions upon millions of dollars have been wasted by the FAA management who were controllers when Pam Am and TWA were our flag carries. They are stuck in a time warp of 1970.
If you pull on the Tiger's tail, better be prepared for him to bite you in the ARSE

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