Caribbean/Caribe/Caraibes Aviation Part XX

A388 · Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:02 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 149):
Quoting Bw415 (Reply 148):
I don't want to upload anyone's pics without permission so check the link out.. scroll to the bottom of the page.

The original BW Express colours sure worked out well for Caribbean Airlines..

I second that, the liveries combine very well with each other.However, I would love for Caribbean Express to use other birds like the green honeycreeper or the scarlet ibis. Those are very nice birds in my opinion. If I ever visit POS for aircraft photography I will definately want to go on a bird tour to photograph these very nice exotic birds.

A388 Big grin

caribbean484 · Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:09 pm

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 146):
Just a small update on CAL... They have added a new section to their website called Customer Care.. they have also relocated the ontime performance to this section.. The ontime performance for September is 92%..

Also on CALPA someone uploaded pictures of 9Y-WIN and 9Y-WIP with new CAL decals on the fuselage.. this should be a temporary fixture though.. The old bwee express colours actually go really well with the hummingbird :P

They did a nice job in updating the site a little more, maybe the mails put forward by myself and BWIA772 did work after all.

I hope so too that the livery is just temporary and something new.
FYI 9Y-BGI is in ATL getting a paint job so looking forward to seeing her soon.

caribbean484 · Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:24 pm

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 146):
Just a small update on CAL... They have added a new section to their website called Customer Care.. they have also relocated the ontime performance to this section.. The ontime performance for September is 92%..

Also on CALPA someone uploaded pictures of 9Y-WIN and 9Y-WIP with new CAL decals on the fuselage.. this should be a temporary fixture though.. The old bwee express colours actually go really well with the hummingbird :P

They did a nice job on updating the website a bit, maybe the emails BWIA772 and myself were sending their marketing director all were heard.

I hope so too that this logo is temporary on Caribbean Express but 9Y-WIT is being updated.
FYI 9YBGI is in ATL being repainted and retrofitted.

BWIA 772 · Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:34 pm

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 148):

The little display using flash about the early bird catches the worm is also nice. The customer care is a nice addition to the site but I think it is about high time that we some pics of business class etc on the relevant section of the website. They also updated the aircraft section by adding the Dash 8 and adding the purple magenta back ground (nice but I will still prefer the bluish background the airline uses in their ads.

Regards

btw i should be posting some videos soon

A388 · Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:17 am

Does anyone have any update on Cayman Airways livery change and their re-organization status? What is Lufthansa Consulting doing for them at the moment, they were working on the re-organization, correct? I remember they were to announce a new livery a few months ago, July to be exact, correct?

A388

mbj-11 · Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:30 am

It seems that JM is bent on taking a big share of the EC market. They have dedicated another flight to Grenada and St. Lucia out out JFK and Barbados is said to not be doing so badly. If all goes according to expectations, the EC might have its own JM flights independent of any hub connections in Jamaica.

captaink · Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:45 am

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 155):
the EC might have its own JM flights independent of any hub connections in Jamaica.

Wouldn't be the first time. JM ran JFK/GNDJFK before. The MBJ flights although they do help, aren't usually very full flights, but the schedule and positioning works out quite well.

hummingbird · Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:47 am

An article about LIAT.

http://jamaicaobserver.com/magazines...AL_TO_REGIONAL_TRAVEL___BEACHE.asp

albird87 · Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:34 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 154):
Does anyone have any update on Cayman Airways livery change and their re-organization status? What is Lufthansa Consulting doing for them at the moment, they were working on the re-organization, correct? I remember they were to announce a new livery a few months ago, July to be exact, correct?

Well there was a big read up in the newspapers about this change a while ago in the papers here and a lot of people wrote in and complained on why they wanted to get rid of 'sir-turtle' and that is the last we heard of it.... Im sure that KX is sitting at its office still trying to find funding for this which is why there has been a delay in this re-organisation.

With the change is New Livery they were also going to update the cabins in the 732/3s and the plan i heard was that they wanted to add PTVs to the seats!! This seems a big waste of money but installing a simple IFE (non PTV) seems such a better idea and I would of thought that those 732s would become weight restricted with all that more weight in the cabin. Perhaps we shall here this announcement along with the retirement of the last 732s (I will miss those wee buggers when that happens)

mbj-11 · Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:36 pm

"A Caribbean Airlines ticket to travel between Jamaica and Trinidad costs around US$500, the same price as a ticket between Jamaica and New York."

Not exactly true, currently one can get 2 tickets between JFK/MBJ-KGN for that amount. And..............I had no idea that fares for travel in the region were so horrendously high!!!
Pardon the "ignorance" but geez, no wonder our people prefer to travel north.

bw415 · Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:29 pm

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 159):
"A Caribbean Airlines ticket to travel between Jamaica and Trinidad costs around US$500, the same price as a ticket between Jamaica and New York."

I think that it is quite unfair to make such a statement that "a ticket" would cost " a price". I mean I assume that people who post in this forum are a bit more educated on aviation than the regular Joe on the street. So consider this an FYI.

The base fare on this flight is $151 USD one way with an upper limit of $332 USD one way in the low season. For the summer period the base fare starts at $182 USD with the same upper limit. With taxes that makes the low season base fare $311.36 USD. While I agree with you that fares will eventually reach $500, I hope you are aware of the fact that the New York fares will also do the same. This is how airlines make their money. The early bird (the early passenger) benefits from lower fares but if you wait until the last minute when there are 10 seats left on the aircraft then don't complain. There is also only one flight from KIN-POS a day. I am sure you have at least three flights from either MBJ/KIN to JFK a day.

Don't make it sound like Caribbean Airlines is trying to dig out your eyes to travel. They have great specials, and their base fare is actually quite low.

Regards,
bw415

caribbean484 · Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:55 pm

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 160):
I think that it is quite unfair to make such a statement that "a ticket" would cost " a price". I mean I assume that people who post in this forum are a bit more educated on aviation than the regular Joe on the street. So consider this an FYI.

Bw415 you took the words right out of my mouth.
The fact is people on this forum need to know how business in aviation is run. What the article is not telling people is the amount of taxes added to the ticket after. Both LI and BW have reasonable ticket prices, however taxes then make up more than 1/3 of the final cost of the ticket.

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 159):
Not exactly true, currently one can get 2 tickets between JFK/MBJ-KGN for that amount. And..............I had no idea that fares for travel in the region were so horrendously high!!!

MBJ you may be right but thats only if you can get the seat class on that particular day. I can say the same about getting a return ticket to POS-JFK at US$290, but the fact remains that it may not be so because the seats are taken up. There is something called supply and demand and we have to understand the more demand the more the airline will supply at a price. Currently there are alot more seat available from POS-JFK than there is to KIN, so the seat prices will be more, to cover the cost the airline operates at.

The same could be said about JM, the average fare to JFK from GND is about US$500 without taxes, can you tell me this is justified. Since JM has no competition on the route and seats are limited then the fares will be high in the off peak season and higher during peak times.

mbj-11 · Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:32 pm

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 160):
I think that it is quite unfair to make such a statement that "a ticket" would cost " a price". I mean I assume that people who post in this forum are a bit more educated on aviation than the regular Joe on the street. So consider this an FYI.

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 160):
Don't make it sound like Caribbean Airlines is trying to dig out your eyes to travel. They have great specials, and their base fare is actually quite low.

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 161):
Bw415 you took the words right out of my mouth.
The fact is people on this forum need to know how business in aviation is run.

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/magaz...AL_TO_REGIONAL_TRAVEL___BEACHE.asp

Let me just put it this way. You guys obviously did not read the article as posted by JM 017 (see link above). I did not suggest anything to say CAL was digging, drilling or boring anyones eyes to travel. The quote was from the Barbados's Minister of Tourism and International Transport, Noel Lynch. Read a part of his statement below.

"The cost of air tickets to travel between the islands was also prohibitive, said Minister Lynch. A Caribbean Airlines ticket to travel between Jamaica and Trinidad costs around US$500, the same price as a ticket between Jamaica and New York."

Now please justify where I suggested anything as you made in your assumptions or where I made any disparaging remarks against CAL and their pricing mechanism. Also the point of the indirect reference to "people" being more educated than the regular Joe in the street suggests that "I" Mbj-11 am obviously less than capable of posting as "I" should know better. Again........please justify where I posted any replies or articles that suggest I do not know what I was referring to? I implore you please let me know as apparently I am not quite up to it yet.

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 159):
And..............I had no idea that fares for travel in the region were so horrendously high!!!
Pardon the "ignorance" but geez, no wonder our people prefer to travel north.

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 161):
The same could be said about JM, the average fare to JFK from GND is about US$500 without taxes, can you tell me this is justified. Since JM has no competition on the route and seats are limited then the fares will be high in the off peak season and higher during peak times.

Please point out in this statement where it warranted the somewhat close but not quite that close JM vs CAL or any other regional carrier comparison/argument?

The fact is, mutual respect is something I strive for, whether from JA, BDS,BAH, TT or even HEL .It is important to respect people's postings without jumping to bash people or suggest faults in intelligence. I could take that approach, but then what would it benefit me or anyone.

bw415 · Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:17 pm

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 162):
The fact is, mutual respect is something I strive for, whether from JA, BDS,BAH, TT or even HEL .It is important to respect people's postings without jumping to bash people or suggest faults in intelligence. I could take that approach, but then what would it benefit me or anyone.

No one is trying to step on your toes here buddy or disrespect you in anyway. You, however, made no effort to refute the statement of the Minister, which, at least to me indicated that you were in agreement.

Nevertheless it was a misunderstanding so consider your "ignorance" excused and your post respected.

mbj-11 · Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:48 pm

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 163):
You, however, made no effort to refute the statement of the Minister, which, at least to me indicated that you were in agreement

Agreement?

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 159):
the same price as a ticket between Jamaica and New York."

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 159):
Not exactly true, currently one can get 2 tickets between JFK/MBJ-KGN for that amount.

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 159):
And..............I had no idea that fares for travel in the region were so horrendously high!!!
Pardon the "ignorance" but geez, no wonder our people prefer to travel north.

My friend my post couldn't have shown an agreement. "First words.....not exactly true".

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 163):
Nevertheless it was a misunderstanding

Excellent response to misinterpretation. That is how one approaches an issue.

Quoting Bw415 (Reply 163):
so consider your "ignorance" excused and your post respected

Not how to end. Can be considered a cheap shot. But then again pride is something we all find hard to swallow.
God bless

BWIA 772 · Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:13 pm

So let me way in

POS- KIN has always been a heavily flown route and commands a high fare IMHO.

We all know that flights to the US are relatively dirt cheap in the low season and this is nothing new. Regional fares have being high is not anything new. CAL fares on their limited intra regional network the last time I check on average were higher than those of BW.

Lastly the article is a piss poor piece of journalism. The only real piece of news one gets is that the share holder governments see LI as being vital to intra regional tourism but they need to improve their service and look at reducing cost.

Regards

mbj-11 · Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:13 pm

Myself couldn't make heads or tails of it initially. I had to read it twice to fully comprehend the whole thing. But what I would like to know is why then hasn't Liat been able to rein in their operating cost when they service a "workable" market?

BWIA 772 · Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:36 pm

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 166):
But what I would like to know is why then hasn't Liat been able to rein in their operating cost when they service a "workable" market?

Yes LI have been able to rein their cost.. they have been able to make an operational profit and as have been stated in articles on more than one occasion once the buy out of 8B is completed the airline will be able to cut it cost even more.

caribbean484 · Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:50 am

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 162):
Let me just put it this way. You guys obviously did not read the article as posted by JM 017 (see link above). I did not suggest anything to say CAL was digging, drilling or boring anyones eyes to travel. The quote was from the Barbados's Minister of Tourism and International Transport, Noel Lynch. Read a part of his statement below.

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 162):
The fact is, mutual respect is something I strive for, whether from JA, BDS,BAH, TT or even HEL .It is important to respect people's postings without jumping to bash people or suggest faults in intelligence. I could take that approach, but then what would it benefit me or anyone.

Mbj11 no one is disrespecting your posting, however, there is a need to educate each other and gain knowledge for the better good.
All I am saying is that the entire article and the BGI minister's assertion(no supprise) is poorly done. BGI-KIN is the most profitable route to CAL and is highly demanded. Caribbean Airlines average fare to KIN is about $US390 round trip all taxes, however what this article and the minster fails to mention in their infinite wisdom is that the seat between BGI-KIN is usually taken up. BWIA now CAL flies this route on average 90% capacity so then you will get the high end bargin of the ticket if you try to book last minute.

What this article also fails to input is that taxes within this region, more so BGI is very high and cost about 33-45% of the original ticket prices.
You see my friend, this article was poorly done and had no weight to it, I don't know if the minister wanted to get some kind of support from the average person, however he can fool all of us.

mbj-11 · Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:18 am

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 168):
Mbj11 no one is disrespecting your posting, however, there is a need to educate each other and gain knowledge for the better good.

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 168):
What this article also fails to input is that taxes within this region, more so BGI is very high and cost about 33-45% of the original ticket prices.
You see my friend, this article was poorly done and had no weight to it, I don't know if the minister wanted to get some kind of support from the average person, however he can fool all of us.

My friend I appreciate your response and if I could, I would extend a handshake to you. The article indeed had many cut and paste as I see it. Yes information is there, but one indeed has to re-read it to fully understand. Thanks for the info in regard to the KGN-BGI for CAL, I was actually under the impression that either BGI-POS or POS-(Guyana...unsure of code) would've been the high capacity routes.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 167):
Yes LI have been able to rein their cost.. they have been able to make an operational profit and as have been stated in articles on more than one occasion once the buy out of 8B is completed the airline will be able to cut it cost even more.

Do you think a change in fleet, eg. Dash 8's + Saab 340 or Fairchild Merlin 3's with lower seating capacity would do well for them. Its an idea. And since turbo props have been the way to go for LI maybe a fleet restructuring would be great for them at this time. What do you think?

steeler83 · Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:23 am

Quoting WestIndian425 (Reply 131):
Five new Latin America routes with nonstop service between JFK and Panama City, Panama (effective Dec. 13); Guatemala City, Guatemala (effective Dec. 14); Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago (effective Dec. 20)*; San Jose, Costa Rica (effective Feb. 15)*; and Liberia, Costa Rica (effective Feb. 16)*.

I wonder if any other airlines will start any more new USA-Caribbean/Latin America routes...

A388 · Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:38 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 170):

I wonder if any other airlines will start any more new USA-Caribbean/Latin America routes...

Well, watch out for NK and their 10 new destinations to the Caribbean/South America they will announce by the end of this year. No city has been named yet but at least we know they will add at least 10 destination in the Caribbean/South America. NK is looking at expanding in this region in the coming year.

A388

steeler83 · Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:03 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 171):
No city has been named yet but at least we know they will add at least 10 destination in the Caribbean/South America. NK is looking at expanding in this region in the coming year.

It wouldn't surprise me if they were to launch such service from FLL. Yet US tried this approach some years ago, but that attempt failed. Then again, US was not a LCC. Perhaps NK can better compete against AA from MIA on the Latin/South American routes. And the caribbean threads boring? ha! hardly Smile

A388 · Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:00 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 172):
It wouldn't surprise me if they were to launch such service from FLL. Yet US tried this approach some years ago, but that attempt failed. Then again, US was not a LCC. Perhaps NK can better compete against AA from MIA on the Latin/South American routes. And the caribbean threads boring? ha! hardly

Starting flights from MIA is not a low cost move as you will than start operating from an expensive airport. FLL in this case would be a secondary airport which is cheaper and more typical for a low cost airline. Besides FLL is not that far away from MIA anyway. The only major issue with FLL as I read here over and over again, is their immigration facility which is already coping with handling problems. I read that FLL is already expanding their immigration facilities to accomodate the growth. Time will tell.

A388

hummingbird · Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:34 am

Not to bash on NK. Their check-in process at FLL is no walk in the park. Imagine having to queue on the curbside for your flight. I know they have been in discussion with the authorities, but the quicker the solution the better it will be for us as passengers.

BWIA 772 · Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:03 am

Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 168):

BGI minister assertion is not by any means wrong I think he was using it to show that LI is not the only airline with "high" fares on intra regional routes. Seeing that you now agree that the article was a poor piece of journalism you should have realize that was what he was going. Not that he is on some campaign to "fool us all" and to get support from the average person. LI already has been committed the resources it needs so I really do not see why and where you are going with your last point. Especially given that you agree the article is a poor piece of journalism.

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 169):
Do you think a change in fleet, eg. Dash 8's + Saab 340 or Fairchild Merlin 3's with lower seating capacity would do well for them. Its an idea. And since turbo props have been the way to go for LI maybe a fleet restructuring would be great for them at this time. What do you think?

I know that LI has partnered with Caribbean Aviation IIRC another Antiguan based company to fly routes where the Dash 8s have proved to be too much capacity. For most of LI network the Dash 8s both the 100 and 300s have served the airline well and I do not see them going for anything smaller, however that does not mean that it could not happen. Darby did say that they will replace older aircraft as needed so I think we may see them sticking with the Dash 8s.

Regards

[Edited 2007-10-06 03:06:25]

MAH4546 · Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:17 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 172):
Quoting A388 (Reply 171):
No city has been named yet but at least we know they will add at least 10 destination in the Caribbean/South America. NK is looking at expanding in this region in the coming year.

It wouldn't surprise me if they were to launch such service from FLL. Yet US tried this approach some years ago, but that attempt failed.

They already have launched such services, and have been successful so far. Spirit's FLL hub is the fourth largest Latin/Caribbean hub in the US, after AA/MIA, CO/IAH, and DL/ATL. They've launched Lima, San Pedro Sula, and St. Maarten among others. What they are adding is ten more cities.

A388 · Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:34 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 176):
What they are adding is ten more cities.

Correct, that is what I mean.

A388

steeler83 · Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:31 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 176):
Spirit's FLL hub is the fourth largest Latin/Caribbean hub in the US, after AA/MIA, CO/IAH, and DL/ATL. They've launched Lima, San Pedro Sula, and St. Maarten among others. What they are adding is ten more cities.

Oh, thanks for correcting me. I knew that NK had a hub in FLL, but I didn't realize that they managed to grow it into one of the biggest Latin America hubs (duh...) Hopefully the expanded immigrations/customs will better accomodate the folks coming into the USA via FLL...

caribbean484 · Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:44 pm

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 175):
BGI minister assertion is not by any means wrong I think he was using it to show that LI is not the only airline with "high" fares on intra regional routes. Seeing that you now agree that the article was a poor piece of journalism you should have realize that was what he was going. Not that he is on some campaign to "fool us all" and to get support from the average person. LI already has been committed the resources it needs so I really do not see why and where you are going with your last point. Especially given that you agree the article is a poor piece of journalism.

If this is the case then he is still wrong for doing it. He cannot compare a flight that is about 2.75 hrs to flights that LI serves with segments no greater than an hour.
Not only that, the choose the highest fare available to put his point across when there are fares that could be much lower.

I never talked about LI in my response either, all I said was that the BGI minister fails to mention that taxes on any ticket by any airline regionally will cost 33-45% of the original ticket.

psimpson · Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:31 am

Air Jamaica Latest from JM contact

Air Jamaica plan to put into service for the Christmas rush its 1st B757-200 plus up to 3 ex Air Canada A319s.
The B757-200 that JM will be receiving is around 17 years old and they are looking into acquiring blended winglets for its B757 fleet.
Also Air Jamaica A340-313 6Y-JMP is presently undergoing a c check with Lufthansa Technik in Germany prior to being sub leased out. At the moment it looks like Air India will be receiving the 2 JM A340s but the contract has not been signed as of yet, and both US Air and Aerolineas Argentinas have shown an interest in the 2 A340s. Also some JM crews will be flying the A340s for Air India if they take the aircraft on lease.
Also for the Christmas rush JM will wet lease B737s from ATA to operate flight to Chicago.

hummingbird · Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:35 am

Quoting Psimpson (Reply 180):
The B757-200 that JM will be receiving is around 17 years old and they are looking into acquiring blended winglets for its B757 fleet.

Most crew have already completed safety and stowage training. As soon as aircraft arrives then it will be familiarisation training.

Quoting Psimpson (Reply 180):
Also Air Jamaica A340-313 6Y-JMP is presently undergoing a c check with Lufthansa Technik in Germany prior to being sub leased out. At the moment it looks like Air India will be receiving the 2 JM A340s but the contract has not been signed as of yet, and both US Air and Aerolineas Argentinas have shown an interest in the 2 A340s. Also some JM crews will be flying the A340s for Air India if they take the aircraft on lease.

Air India is the front-runner. The contract will be for two years. JM will only use pursers and flight deck on these flights.

Quoting Psimpson (Reply 180):
Also for the Christmas rush JM will wet lease B737s from ATA to operate flight to Chicago.

Perfect aircraft for this route. Was told ORD is suited for an all econmy aircraft.

bloodyrascal · Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:19 am

Hey i was just on wikipedia and i went to lynden pindling international airport and i noticed westjet is starting service to YHM-NAS so i went on the site and I was shocked that it was true here is the link

http://cnrp.ccnmatthews.com/client/w...nFor=776954&year=2007&releaseSeq=0

and ST.LUCIA. Its good to see that we are getting more Canadians seeing that we were affected by the new passport initiative and that the numbers of Canadians travelling to NAS and the Bahamas are on a increase. Big grin

forgive me if someone posted this already

bloodyrascal · Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:29 am

oh i forgot it will be a once weekly flight on friday. so here it is the schedule of westjet to NAS

NAS-YYZ will go daily
NAS-YHM will be on fridays
NAS-YYC will be tuesdays and fridays
NAS-YHZ will be on mondays and fridays

Wow now if we can see a YOW and YUL service start up I will be a happy camper.:D and even a FPO-YYZ Big grin

and do they still do the ZSA-YUL charter still?

beeweel15 · Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting HummingBird (Reply 181):
Quoting Psimpson (Reply 180):
Also Air Jamaica A340-313 6Y-JMP is presently undergoing a c check with Lufthansa Technik in Germany prior to being sub leased out. At the moment it looks like Air India will be receiving the 2 JM A340s but the contract has not been signed as of yet, and both US Air and Aerolineas Argentinas have shown an interest in the 2 A340s. Also some JM crews will be flying the A340s for Air India if they take the aircraft on lease.

Air India is the front-runner. The contract will be for two years. JM will only use pursers and flight deck on these flights.

Wish BW had done this maybe they could have had a tiny extra bit of cash coming in. Now BW's 340 pilots are all over the world now many at Emirates and Ethiad. I met a few at JFK some time ago while handling flights for Ethiad flying in to JFK their 340-500's.

BWIA 772 · Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:37 pm

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 184):

BWIA IS DEAD come one man it's been more than a year since the announcement was made and almost year since CAL has been up and running give it a rest!!!

Besides the above point which on its own is very good, JM Is subleasing the A340s because getting out of the lease contract most likely will incur penalties that the airline cannot afford to pay. BW on the other hand operated the A340 until the lease came to an end. Infact Caribbean Airlines operated LHR longer than originally planned.

So in summary, BWIA is dead deal with it and your point isnt valid anyways as BW leases were up while JM aren't.

Regards
BWIA 772

yellowtail · Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:49 pm

First of all ..time for a new thread guys....thsi one is waaaaaaaaaayyyyyy long....

Posted this in another thread..but might be of interest here too..

The following sounds a bit farfetched to me...my source is close to the situation so maybe ...not holding my breath though !

British Forces here (BZE) have been told that soon BA will start 2X weekly service to BZE. it will involve as a contract with the UK Gov to haul Brit Forces back and forth + Cargo....which currently is a bi-weekly VC10...

the 788 would be perfect

If you think about it..makes sense...BA can probably do it cheaper....and with the flight basically paid for with squaddies and packs of english sausages and mail underneath..the ancillary UK traffic which is about 250 pax a week (currently going through IAH and MIA) would be some nice gravy....

And with IB, KLM, AF fortifying / building other Cent/Am markets....might be a good toe hold for BA...especailly if they could code share with TA on the SAL flight....as the TA flight is timed pretty well to make it work...

Maybe an opportunity to do LGW-BZE-GUA or and LGW-MBJ-BZE..I assume LGW because LHR slots are so precious...

captaink · Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:06 am

Just some latest from JM and their Eastern Caribbean and Jamaican conquests.

From the December 15 to January 5 expect the following changes in the system to help with the surge of passengers and the lack of airplanes.

Extra JFK/KIN/JFK run with a World Airways MD11. 24F/268Y

BGI/JFK not shared with GND or UVF on a daily A320.

JFK/GND/UVF/MBJ then MBJ/UVF/GND/JFK 4 days a week with their A320s and 3 days a week with an ATA 738 (175Y).

To combat with the missing bag problems, (imagine on a 738 with 175 passengers) they will be an embargo on all extra pieces and/or overweight pieces (new to JM Big grin

) and for bags weighing between 51lbs and 70lbs a 50USD surcharge.

Good luck to Air Jamaica on their upcoming busy Christmas period.

We may wonder where is Caribbean Airlines in all of this.

md90fan · Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 182):
and ST.LUCIA. Its good to see that we are getting more Canadians seeing that we were affected by the new passport initiative and that the numbers of Canadians travelling to NAS and the Bahamas are on a increase. Big grin

Not only that low fares, and the recent resurgence of the Canadian dollar play a role here.

Quoting Bloodyrascal (Reply 183):
NAS-YYC will be tuesdays and fridays

Hmm, thought Calgary would be 3x weekly?

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 186):
If you think about it..makes sense...BA can probably do it cheaper....and with the flight basically paid for with squaddies and packs of english sausages and mail underneath..the ancillary UK traffic which is about 250 pax a week (currently going through IAH and MIA) would be some nice gravy....

Not only that, but BA offers connections thru LHR (where it will most likely come from-gov't traffic) and there is, to my knowledge some eco-tourism traffic in Belize (or as the increasing Hispanic population would say, Belice).

Quoting Captaink (Reply 187):
Extra JFK/KIN/JFK run with a World Airways MD11. 24F/268Y

Wow-about time they served this route with the aircraft it deserves.

captaink · Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:59 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 188):
Wow-about time they served this route with the aircraft it deserves.

Hello that routes sees 340s, more than what it deserves.. Big grin

The A310s were also excellent for that run, but say wah, JM decided to dump em.

md90fan · Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:46 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 189):
Hello that routes sees 340s, more than what it deserves.. Big grin The A310s were also excellent for that run, but say wah, JM decided to dump em.

Off topic, but I just saw a documentary about gangs in Kingston, 1 person is murdered every 6 hours, 1 policemen is murdered every week, Kingston was the murder capital of the world last year, with 1,300 murdered!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1csCgxDZb0Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw4JjJuQFjo&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jz3vCaeVaM&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-7rvZRnrjI&mode=related&search=

I'm surprised there isn't a travel warning going to this place, but somehow, amidst the violence, I'm betting KIN is still a very profitable route for airlines such as AA and BA, and even local JM, who's flights to the US must be very high yielding.

ashamed

beeweel15 · Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:25 am

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 185):
BWIA IS DEAD come one man it's been more than a year since the announcement was made and almost year since CAL has been up and running give it a rest!!!

Sorry for using CAL's two letter code - BW

hummingbird · Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:29 am

Another JM controversy regarding the sale of LHR route to Virgin Atlantic.

http://jamaicaobserver.com/magazines...E_WILL_BE_FLYING___SAYS_VIRGIN.asp

captaink · Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:58 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 188):
Wow-about time they served this route with the aircraft it deserves.

You forget that route sees the A340. More than what it deserves in my opinion. Would have been cool if JM had airplanes around the size of the MD11, o slightly smaller. If they had the A300-600s or maybe if they kept the A310s, they would have been able to use them on these VFR routes. Butch thought too much about the tourist oriented side of the airline.

mbj-11 · Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:54 pm

Point.........when it comes to the holidays JM can never find enough aircraft to satisfy the markets. Right now I am trying to source FLL/MBJ and the flights are filling up already and so are the prices matching the load. Same can be said for NAS/JFK/MIA /EWR.

With KGN being violent.................. my friend being completely honest........ although violence occurs its hardly noticeable. I had friends who travelled there gripped by fear and then returned vowing to go back as what they heard is far from what they experienced. Truth be told, the violence is high for such a small country like Jamaica, but in many places these occur in squatter settlements or ghetto's. Also gangs reign supreme in these area's as idiots feel that they should control what God built. But anyway, to use a Jamaican phrase.........(Kingston ain't Jamaica)

bloodyrascal · Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:43 am

CO has started there 752 service to NAS it is on wednesdays. From EWR.

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 188):
Not only that low fares, and the recent resurgence of the Canadian dollar play a role here.

Yup its like 1.02 cents canadian to 1 us (correct me if i am wrong)

here is some news on my national flag carrier I think it is time to get new aircraft 2 more landing gear problems

http://www.thenassauguardian.com/national_local/296388333151779.php

westindian425 · Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:46 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 176):
They already have launched such services, and have been successful so far. Spirit's FLL hub is the fourth largest Latin/Caribbean hub in the US, after AA/MIA, CO/IAH, and DL/ATL. They've launched Lima, San Pedro Sula, and St. Maarten among others. What they are adding is ten more cities.

How big is AA/JFK focus city in terms of Latin America/Caribbean, as well as CO/EWR? I thought those were pretty sizeable.

BWIA 772 · Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:48 am

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 191):

Understood and I guess the BW rant was a bit over the top but given how you posted in the past I thought we were in for another BW should not have died campaign.... That being said as my post stated the situation between BW/CAL and JM as it relates to the leasing of the A340 are quite different.

Quoting WestIndian425 (Reply 196):

I thought AA @ JFK would have been larger than CO @ IAH and even DL @ ATL.

md90fan · Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:14 am

Quoting WestIndian425 (Reply 192):
How big is AA/JFK focus city in terms of Latin America/Caribbean,

Aruba
Barbados
Bermuda (If you want to call it the Caribbean).
Montego Bay
Santo Domingo
Santiago, DR
Port Au Prince
Providenciales
Punta Cana
San Juan
St. Maarten
St. Thomas
St. Lucia (UVF)*
St. Kitts*

Recently dropped routes: JFK-Grand Cayman,Kingston,La Romana,Nassau (with the 757),Puerto Plata & Port of Spain.

JFK exists purely for O&D. While, there are connections to be made on early morning flights from BOS, DCA, YUL and YHZ, and a few Transatlantic flights, JFK alone can generate enough O&D to fill many, many A300s a day to the islands (roach coach). One of the main reason AA doesn't fly so many is to maintain yields, and the fact they are relatively short on aircraft. So, given this fact, JFK is mostly centered on the first type of service, the VFR traffic, with heavy emphasis on very dense A300 routes flying multiple daily frequencies to the likes of PAP, SDQ, STI, etc. With that being said, JFK still has enormous leisure traffic as well to places like MBJ, STT, SXM, BGI, etc., but the volume and the yields are with the VFR.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net