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Indy
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Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:15 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 49):
The days of building hubs is probably over. Focus cities focusing on point to point traffic is the model for the future.

It is a gray area with LCCs. WN calls them focus cities but MDW is a hub. Maybe we should call it a hybrid hub. A focus city with so many flights and destinations that it creates connection opportunities in bunches. It just seems to me that once you hit a hundred flights and provide connections you are a hub.
IND to RDU to OKC in 18 months. This is what my life has become.
 
Tornado82
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RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:16 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 50):
A focus city with so many flights and destinations that it creates connection opportunities in bunches. It just seems to me that once you hit a hundred flights and provide connections you are a hub.

How many NWA flights are in IND now? I've seen connections routed through there.
 
Indy
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RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:24 am

There is only 40 something and the connections are relatively limited. NW also schedules IND a bit odd. You'll see far fewer connections available in IND through the summer despite more flights. More connections are available through the slower months. I think perhaps they schedule that way to fill empty seats during the off season.

If I don't make any sense it is because I'm suffering from a severe lack of caffeine.
IND to RDU to OKC in 18 months. This is what my life has become.
 
HPAEAA
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RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:50 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 50):
Maybe we should call it a hybrid hub. A focus city with so many flights and destinations that it creates connection opportunities in bunches.

haha, exactly, why not call them complexes? technically AA doens't have banks any more either...similar model..
1.4mm and counting...
 
steeler83
Posts: 7700
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RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:20 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 43):
US didn't cause that, having a manufacturing business base and being in the rust belt did.

I was actually referring to Pittsburgh the city/region and not necessarily towards PIT or US, but I guess I didn't make myself clear.

Anyway, I guess that as soon as US quits their cutbacks, they'll likely be the largest spoke with service to PHL, BOS, LGA, DCA, MCO, LAS, and PHX, with a mix of mainline and RJs to PHL, BOS, LGA, and DCA. Basically, it will look like what UA did with CLE, which at one time was UA's second biggest base back in the pre-dereg days of the '70s. From what it seems, CO essentially came in, and built up CLE from nothing. perhaps if/when that happens, some other airline will slowly start to build back PIT, especially since the region, despite everything else that has happened to it over the past several decades, is trying to make an economic comeback, though slowly.

If this ever happens, such a base I probably would see maxing out at maybe 180 - 200 daily departures, and I don't see WN doing this either. I see them at roughly 30 flights or so to about 10-12 destinations.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
n710ps
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RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:55 am

Every timetable PIT-LGA is reduced by at least one mainline flight lately. I would not be suprised if one day it is all E-170 175 and CRJ service between NY and PIT personally. PIT is wethered to near nothing as it is. When the 737's go away from the US fleet it will reduce the number of mainline jets yet more and lets bet that most of the serivce with mainlines will be shifted out of PIT and moved to other cities like DCA, CLT, and PHL.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
Tornado82
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RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:36 am

Quoting N710PS (Reply 55):
When the 737's go away from the US fleet it will reduce the number of mainline jets yet more

Isn't that what the E190's are for?
 
Falcon84
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RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:44 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 8):
it would not surprise me if Colgan were to shift its EAS markets to CLE, given their existing partnership with CO.

Great, just when people thought it was safe to go to PKB, CKB and MGW, CO Connection is back!

I can just read it now. Anyone really thinks those flights could be back at CLE?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Tornado82
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RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:58 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 57):
Great, just when people thought it was safe to go to PKB, CKB and MGW, CO Connection is back!

I can just read it now. Anyone really thinks those flights could be back at CLE?

Colgan would need a massive PR campaign to prove that they're more reliable than Regions was. Wow, Colgan and "more reliable than" in the same sentence, I never thought I'd see the day.

I could see those flights leaving PIT, but I'd put CLE as the #2 choice. With the Colgan UA Express hub at IAD, I could see those flights moving that direction before CLE. IAD offers alot more connections than CLE does in terms of int'l and so forth, and Colgan doesn't work out of CLE for CO as of now.
 
steeler83
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RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:04 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 58):
Colgan would need a massive PR campaign to prove that they're more reliable than Regions was. Wow, Colgan and "more reliable than" in the same sentence, I never thought I'd see the day.

Good one.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 58):
I could see those flights leaving PIT, but I'd put CLE as the #2 choice. With the Colgan UA Express hub at IAD, I could see those flights moving that direction before CLE. IAD offers alot more connections than CLE does in terms of int'l and so forth, and Colgan doesn't work out of CLE for CO as of now.

So that would be what, a drop in about 12 turboprop flights? Yup, there goes the total daily departures under 100... It does make sense for them to go down to IAD, or someplace else that Colgan flies (Don't they have another base besides PIT and IAD?) Besides, there really isn't that much traffic going between PIT and those EAS locations. I wonder how many frequencies they'll use if they do go to IAD. There are quite a few hundred different flights domestic and internationally courtesy of UA.

How would those EAS routes wind up through CLE? Who is the regional air provider for CO? That was attempted with Regions Air, but that did not quite work last time I checked.

However, in Falcon84's defense, CO has officially announced that they intend to drastically build up their CLE hub, including several flights to several new cities, such as OMA and I believe Traverse City to name a couple. New transatlantic travel to AMS is also rumored fo 2009, along with the CLE base coming to 300 daily departures by 2009-2010 as well.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Tornado82
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RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:36 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 59):
So that would be what, a drop in about 12 turboprop flights?

I believe 6. The CKB/MGW flights are combined into one PIT arrival so that's 3. And then 3 from PKB I believe.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 59):
Don't they have another base besides PIT and IAD?)

IAH with the Saabs, and soon EWR with Q400's. EWR ain't gonna happen, and no Saab is making it to IAH. Also they pick up some BOS/LGA flying for US, but again that's not going to happen for CKB/MGW.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 59):
Besides, there really isn't that much traffic going between PIT and those EAS locations.

There's none. You can drive to Morgantown in an hour and a half, Clarksburg in 2. Parkersburg maybe a half a person per day of O&D, if that.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 59):

How would those EAS routes wind up through CLE? Who is the regional air provider for CO? That was attempted with Regions Air, but that did not quite work last time I checked.

Colgan provides Saab lift in IAH, and soon will provide Q400 lift in EWR for CO. Right now Colgan has no CLE ties in the CO system and none are forseen, which is why I said IAD is more likely.

Besides, Colgan had a little addendum in their original EAS Application requesting the right to move service to Washington (not specifically IAD but read between the lines) if market forces dictated.

As for ramifications to PIT, losing the EAS, the remaining driving distance only crap like ERI, and PIT would be at critical mass at that point. Most other flights are to either US focus/hub cities, or are being run by TransStates at risk. If the at risk to RDU, etc. is currently profitable there is no reason to think it will lose profitability.

Don't forget that any TransStates or Colgan flying for US is not under US's control, it's "At Risk" flying. Also don't forget that EAS contracts are signed with the regional carrier. The Feds signed up with Colgan, not with US.
 
N77014
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RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:49 pm

Quoting Apodino (Reply 14):
The other reason its an apples to oranges comparison is because the corporate headquarters is still in PHX, while SOC is in PIT. Every other airline I know, mine included, has its SOC either in HQ or near it. (UA still has SOC in Elk Grove, while HQ is downtown, but they are both still in Chicagoland) You would think that they would try to keep SOC near HQ, which would mean a new PHX facility. This would have actually been a little cheaper for the company, because it would have probably meant losing some senior people who are topped out. The only benefit PIT has is the cost of living is lower, so they can attract better people.

PHX ops (old HP) is ripe for consolidation and relocation from PHX. This from a veteran SOC supervisor who fears more cuts coming due to the merger and consolidation.
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
masseybrown
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RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:16 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 54):
perhaps if/when that happens, some other airline will slowly start to build back PIT, especially since the region, despite everything else that has happened to it over the past several decades, is trying to make an economic comeback, though slowly.

Think about the one-hub airlines. PIT could make good sense for them somewhere down the road. Assuming Frontier, Alaska, and Virgin America survive and want to grow in the East, any one of them could pick Pittsburgh. If the US allows foreign ownership of airlines, that's another possibility. And what is their alternative? There aren't any other big, efficient airports sitting around with space available.

Five or six years elapsed between UA deciding to move out of CLE and CO deciding to move in. With some patience, you'll see PIT busy again.
 
steeler83
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RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 60):
Parkersburg maybe a half a person per day of O&D, if that.

Tornado, just say it: a head and torso! hahaha  Wink

...or the invisible mute! Heheh, sorry if this isn't splitting any sides. I am tryin to be funny  Smile

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 62):
Assuming Frontier, Alaska, and Virgin America survive and want to grow in the East, any one of them could pick Pittsburgh.

They are possibilities, although I think Virgin America is looking to build up JFK. Frontier I am not so sure given that they selected CAK over PIT...

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 62):
If the US allows foreign ownership of airlines, that's another possibility. And what is their alternative? There aren't any other big, efficient airports sitting around with space available.

So if the US allowed foreign ownership, that would mean that some European airline could come in and open some base in the states?

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 62):
Five or six years elapsed between UA deciding to move out of CLE and CO deciding to move in. With some patience, you'll see PIT busy again.

Ah ok, this actually answered one of my questions above, how long was it before traffic at CLE picked up again when CO started the build-up. 5-6 years huh? Well, it has been 3 years just about since the hub closed. So I give it another 2 or 3 or so before someone really starts to build some kind of focus city-type base there again. Traffic, O&D (domestic and international) are both on the increase for PIT, so I guess it is only a matter of time before a CLE-esque build up occurs...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
ScottB
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RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:25 am

Quoting N710PS (Reply 46):
PIT was doomed before the merger in my opinion, the merger sealed it all for them.

PIT was doomed, in part, by the continued shrinking of the US Airways mainline fleet. It's simply not possible to operate five normal-sized hubs and three focus cities with a fleet of 350 mainline aircraft. CO has a larger fleet and still has only three hubs along with the GUM operation (which, incidentally, has fewer daily CO departures than LAX, BOS, FLL, and several other cities).

Quoting N710PS (Reply 46):
It would not suprise me to one day see LGA's operation or Bostons operation biger than PIT.

The US operations at both BOS and LGA are already larger than PIT. Just the Shuttle departures at each of BOS and LGA are roughly the same size as US's current mainline operation at PIT.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 45):
The Airbus orders are basically replacement orders. The E190s are new capacity.

I'm not even sure all of the E190's are new capacity; the total Airbus narrowbody order isn't quite large enough to match the number of 757's and 737's slated to be retired.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 58):
I could see those flights leaving PIT, but I'd put CLE as the #2 choice. With the Colgan UA Express hub at IAD, I could see those flights moving that direction before CLE.

I'd buy that, too. I had forgotten that Colgan requested the option to move the flights to IAD. It's a far better option for most of those smaller cities than having service to the decimated PIT ex-hub.
 
PlaneGuy27
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RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:19 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 59):
However, in Falcon84's defense, CO has officially announced that they intend to drastically build up their CLE hub, including several flights to several new cities, such as OMA and I believe Traverse City to name a couple. New transatlantic travel to AMS is also rumored fo 2009, along with the CLE base coming to 300 daily departures by 2009-2010 as well.

You have to put this in perspective - the State of Ohio included a $16 million incentive for CO to expand their hub. Also, CO has only two other hubs - IAH (which even though its super strong in business and leisure traffic is far south for transocons + EWR ( which is pretty much maxed out ) so expanding for CO in terms of shifting around domestic-domestic and international-domestic makes sense in CLE.

US on the other hand has two large intl hubs in CLT and PHL and has the domestic connection points too (LAS, PHX< CLT< PHL) - so what's going to really make US want to expand operations at PIT? For most domestic connections that want to avoid PHL - people can use PHX and CLT. (or even DCA to an extent)....
 
Flighty
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RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:46 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 64):
PIT was doomed, in part, by the continued shrinking of the US Airways mainline fleet. It's simply not possible to operate five normal-sized hubs and three focus cities with a fleet of 350 mainline aircraft.

PIT was doomed because it was unprofitable. It was cut in fall 2004, way before the merger was announced or earnest discussions had even begun between US-HP.

They had plenty of airplanes for PIT. They just retired them because PIT was not making any money, nor was it projected to ever again. So, around 50 733 and ~10 A319 got retired from the US fleet.

So, the US and HP operations were relatively separate -- and fleet sizes rationalized independently. That is still true today for the most part.
 
USPIT10L
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RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 31):
I can understand how PITsbergers feel. I did my US ACS / Reservations training in PIT, a couple years ago when US was still offering flights to Europe (I distinctly remember FRA, not sure about LGW) ex PIT. US was the most important airline at that airport by a mile. Half of the checkin area, was US, the other half was the other airlines, not sure what it is like now.

The checkin counters are the same, always have been. US Airways was placed on one end of the Foerster Terminal, everybody else was placed on the side.

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 32):
I just find it disturbing, as others have pointed out, that Parker made the comment that east and west are not coming together like he'd expected. An airline in it's third year of post-merger should have many of those issues fixed, even if they are on different operating certificates. It seems pretty obvious the old US people and the old HP people have a certain degree of dislike and distrust of each other. One expects that from any merger. However, those issues should be moot at this point. Parker had grand ideas for his empire without bothering to see what he had before him at the time was not even working yet.

Let's face it, folks, the US East folks for the most part do not trust senior management, period. They've been lied to and given back so much so many times it's disgraceful. However, since it seems most of the union reps are living in 1999, they all look ignorant and greedy. I know a few supervisors for US Airways at PIT and they seem to have a very down-to-earth approach to all of this, from the bankruptcy proceedings to the cutbacks at PIT. However, it does not seem that the rest of US East is as well-informed. Too bad, I've always treasured their insight and the advice my mentors have given me has been extemely beneficial to my career in travel. I'm now waiting out this airline storm and hoping the national economy gets back on track--it may take some time I know, but it will rebound, just like it always does.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
Tornado82
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RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:43 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 64):
It's a far better option for most of those smaller cities than having service to the decimated PIT ex-hub.

CKB lobbied hard to get DC service before CLE was ever announced, let alone PIT. CKB's economy is basically dependent on a large FBI Center located just at the other end of the exit ramp to CKB airport (If coming from the north you take a left to the airport, and a right to the FBI center at Exit 124)... and I'm sure it has a plethora of DC-area travel connected to it.
 
pitops
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 3:22 pm

RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:50 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 54):

If this ever happens, such a base I probably would see maxing out at maybe 180 - 200 daily departures, and I don't see WN doing this either. I see them at roughly 30 flights or so to about 10-12 destinations.

I could see 40 flights in a few years or so. We are on the radar for more growth.

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 62):
Think about the one-hub airlines. PIT could make good sense for them somewhere down the road. Assuming Frontier, Alaska, and Virgin America survive and want to grow in the East, any one of them could pick Pittsburgh. If the US allows foreign ownership of airlines, that's another possibility. And what is their alternative? There aren't any other big, efficient airports sitting around with space available.

Virgin America is coming to PIT. They put out a statement saying we are on the second tier of cities they are going to add.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 67):
The checkin counters are the same, always have been. US Airways was placed on one end of the Foerster Terminal, everybody else was placed on the side.

This will be changing come first quarter next year. WN is moving to that side with US.
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
steeler83
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RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:24 pm

Quoting PITops (Reply 69):
I could see 40 flights in a few years or so. We are on the radar for more growth.

I think I could see this as well... So we're roughly on the same page...

Quoting PITops (Reply 69):
Virgin America is coming to PIT. They put out a statement saying we are on the second tier of cities they are going to add.

They did mention that they intend to fly to PIT in the near future, but as far as any base is concerned, I think they hinted towards something at JFK. I do have to say, if they were to try and establish a base there, things could become extremely interesting at JFK!!!

How many airlines have large bases there?
AA, B6, DL, so Virgin America would make what then, four???  crowded  crowded  ouch 
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
pitops
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 3:22 pm

RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:58 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 70):
They did mention that they intend to fly to PIT in the near future, but as far as any base is concerned, I think they hinted towards something at JFK. I do have to say, if they were to try and establish a base there, things could become extremely interesting at JFK!!!

How many airlines have large bases there?
AA, B6, DL, so Virgin America would make what then, four???

Traffic is bad enough there. Now the FAA wants east coast airports to cut flights. So who knows.
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:08 am

Quoting PITops (Reply 71):
Now the FAA wants east coast airports to cut flights.

I did say before that the FAA mandate could be a saving grace for PIT. CO already saw the light and realized that they had to start relieving EWR before the FAA did it for them, hence the CLE build up. If the Feds start slotting the hell out of PHelL US would be forced to send alot of that connecting traffic somehwere, and MHT-DAY or something isn't going to go all the way to CLT to connect... and they surely couldn't ram more through LGA/DCA either at that point. Sure it's a longshot, and would be like "winning by forfeit" but it's a possibility.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26468
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:13 am

Quoting PITops (Reply 69):
Virgin America is coming to PIT. They put out a statement saying we are on the second tier of cities they are going to add.

They put out a list of airports, numbering around 40 or so, that basically consisted of most major US cities, for the sole purpose of gaining local newspaper stories such as "Virgin America might come to YYY", that equal free publicity. JetBlue did the same thing when they launched. It's smart marketing. Don't hold your breathe on Virgin America to PIT in the near future.
a.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26639
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:22 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 12):
Likewise with the cost of living being so much lower in PIT compared to PHX,

I doubt it is all that different

Quoting JetJock22 (Reply 15):

Uhhh, last I checked, the airline was still called US Airways....

In name only.

Quoting Apodino (Reply 40):

Then I guess UA having hubs in both SFO and LAX is also strange.

Well, to be fair, there is a huge difference.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
steeler83
Posts: 7700
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:05 pm

Quoting PITops (Reply 71):
Traffic is bad enough there. Now the FAA wants east coast airports to cut flights. So who knows.

It seems there is a bit of a traffic impass about to shape up for the Northeast. The airways are jamming up; I-95 is jamming up (I don't think we can widen that to 16+ lanes either!) How does rail look? I guess putting more trains on the NEC will only slow down rail travel then... Forget the 100+ mph trains then...  scared 

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 72):
I did say before that the FAA mandate could be a saving grace for PIT. CO already saw the light and realized that they had to start relieving EWR before the FAA did it for them, hence the CLE build up. If the Feds start slotting the hell out of PHelL US would be forced to send alot of that connecting traffic somehwere, and MHT-DAY or something isn't going to go all the way to CLT to connect... and they surely couldn't ram more through LGA/DCA either at that point. Sure it's a longshot, and would be like "winning by forfeit" but it's a possibility.

I know this post doesn't necessarily involve PIT, but what about airlines with large bases at JFK like B6 and DL, both with 300+ flight hubs there. I suppose they'll shift some traffic to BOS? back to CVG (DL) or perhaps open a new MW focus city (B6) as some of us here on a.net are wishing and hoping for?

Sorry, but this FAA mandate at calming some of the traffic in the NE is rather new to me...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 2067
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:31 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 75):
Sorry, but this FAA mandate at calming some of the traffic in the NE is rather new to me...

The whole reasoning behind the FAA's mandate is to quiet the ATC snarls and delays that are occurring with daily frequency. PHL and EWR have always been extremely delay-prone. Ask anyone who ever worked at EWR or PHL. I know that PHL was never designed for the amount of traffic that goes through it. The only reason US Airways has such a large presence there is the O&D for both domestic and international travel. Same with EWR. At least CO has some where to put the excess flights, CLE. I'm not sure what US Airways will do, if anything. DL could just add more transatlantic and cut back on some of the feed from NYC. B6 really isn't the problem at JFK.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
SkyyMaster
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:34 am

RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting N77014 (Reply 61):
PHX ops (old HP) is ripe for consolidation and relocation from PHX. This from a veteran SOC supervisor who fears more cuts coming due to the merger and consolidation.

Considering the fact that HP in essence is the "surviving" airline despite the name change, why would Parker relocate major functions out of his old home base? Especially given the current east versus west struggle going on?

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 67):
Let's face it, folks, the US East folks for the most part do not trust senior management, period.

Agreed. My brother was an Airbus captain for the old US and took an early retirement when they were teetering on CH7. All I ever heard him talk about was how bad the management was there. I can understand why those feelings would be hard to shed after all the east folks went through.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7700
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:48 am

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 76):
The whole reasoning behind the FAA's mandate is to quiet the ATC snarls and delays that are occurring with daily frequency.

Even on clear sunny days like today (Right now, I am at West Chester University, outside PHL) delays amount to at least 20-30 minutes. Then when you get some weather event moving in, forget it.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 76):
I know that PHL was never designed for the amount of traffic that goes through it. The only reason US Airways has such a large presence there is the O&D for both domestic and international travel. Same with EWR. At least CO has some where to put the excess flights, CLE. I'm not sure what US Airways will do, if anything.

And it has been stated above that CO is expanding CLE for the sole purpose of relieving EWR. I wonder if any international flights will be rerouted thru CLE? I doubt it, but...

US sending traffic out of PHL... some have thought perhaps they'd move back to PIT, but I still doubt they'll do that. PHL is a goldmine for US, inspite of its poor layout and lack of luck with delays. I looked at a timetable of PHL pre9-11 and there were 397 US departures there then, compared to 440 or so now, an increase of 43 departures, many of them international...

JFK... wow... yeah, definitely do something with that airport! There certainly is a large amount of int'l O&D for that, so certainly DL should not have any trouble adding international routes at the cost of some regional feeder flights. I do wish that there was some advanced high-speed regional rail network that linked up many of these airports to essentially complement air traffic, relieving some air and ground congestion. That is a huge problem there... (I apologize for this somewhat off-topic statement.)
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Indy
Posts: 4944
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:17 am

I see PIT gets winter service to FLL on FL.
IND to RDU to OKC in 18 months. This is what my life has become.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7700
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:54 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 79):
I see PIT gets winter service to FLL on FL.

see also "What's going on in PIT,"  Wink

They're also adding TPA service. FLL goes daily in February... Does anyone think FL could be testing the waters a little bit in PIT? It would not surprise me if the answer is a "no," they're probably not, but with some airlines the way they operate, you can never tell...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Logos
Topic Author
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2000 10:47 pm

RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:54 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 80):
Does anyone think FL could be testing the waters a little bit in PIT? It would not surprise me if the answer is a "no," they're probably not, but with some airlines the way they operate, you can never tell...

I think this has less to do with a potential broader expansion at PIT than it does with FL looking for some new profitable places for them to deploy their aircraft. If this works, I could potentially see them adding Florida routes from PIT, but not too much beyond that.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando
Too many types flown to list
 
atlaaron
Posts: 975
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:30 pm

RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:56 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 80):
They're also adding TPA service. FLL goes daily in February... Does anyone think FL could be testing the waters a little bit in PIT?

My guess would be yes. This seems to be the way FL does things. Announce a route as seasonal first, if it does well it magically becomes year round. If it does bad then "we didn't make a mistake, it was just seasonal."

Here's to hoping for additional FL expansion at PIT. I know they struggled here in the past but it is a different environment now.  champagne 
 
steeler83
Posts: 7700
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: US Hints At Further PIT Cuts

Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:47 am

Well, Logos seems that FL will only add some FLA markets, while ATLAaron thinks perhaps FL might eventually try something. Heck, even if all that PIT sees from FL is FLA markets, that would not be a bad thing at all! It's certainly definite that WN is hinting towards an expansion at PIT, which would be saweet. Kelly has said they are very happy with PIT; it is a profitable, successful market for PIT. I guess the reason why they've been slow to expand was because of US' strong, yet feeble, stronghold of the PIT market. Then US slashes more service from PIT, and it looks like Luke (PITops) was right. US removes more flights from their network, the gates will open for growth by other airlines.

I can't believe that FLL returns, and then goes daily a couple months later! That is incredible!
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