Big Jetblue Announcement In October

werdywerd · Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:44 am

For what it's worth, more than one person I've spoken about this to here at terminal states that they've heard that the news is something that should "make all crewmembers very happy"

I know it's just further rumors but figured I'd throw it in the fire.

CitrusCritter · Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting Werdywerd (Reply 100):
For what it's worth, more than one person I've spoken about this to here at terminal states that they've heard that the news is something that should "make all crewmembers very happy"

So they're going to say "to hell with the LCC concept," jack up pay, and go to a legacy pricing structure? Wink

JetJock22 · Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:26 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 101):
So they're going to say "to hell with the LCC concept," jack up pay, and go to a legacy pricing structure?

Believe it or not, I have heard this tossed around by some of the pilots in the last few weeks....

CitrusCritter · Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting JetJock22 (Reply 102):
Believe it or not, I have heard this tossed around by some of the pilots in the last few weeks....

While I do not for a moment believe this, it would be terribly interesting to see an airline noted for its service like B6 adopt the legacy pricing structure and attempt to beat the legacies solely on service. The problems would be in the lack of a premium cabin, the need for a strong FF program, and the lack of intl destinations.

Clipper136 · Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:01 am

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 92):
I haven't heard any details on it. I was told by someone at JetBlue headquarters back in April that the gates AirTran was vacating at MCO would be split evenly between B6 and WN. That may have changed by now, I'm not sure.

WN has taken 2 additional gates (106 + 108)
B6 has taken 1 additional gate (103)

The remaining 3 gates (105, 107,109) are common use gates used by both WN and B6 for RONs

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 92):
Well, maybe not preceded by. They could do a joint announcement between GOAA and B6. I would like to see MCO build that third finger of AS2, but I don't think it will happen just yet.

Sorry but the third finger cannot be built until RWY 17R/35L is extended to the North (approx 2000')

jetbluefan1 · Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:08 am

Quoting Werdywerd (Reply 100):
For what it's worth, more than one person I've spoken about this to here at terminal states that they've heard that the news is something that should "make all crewmembers very happy"

Hmmm...new uniforms (though I like the current ones), a complete revamp of the JFK operation (which, understandably, employs some very grump employees), a pension plan (with a 1.6% rate)? Maybe those would be a bit too high-cost, but happy crew members makes happy customers Smile

BTW, wasn't there a new pilot contract? And wasn't the 401K matching rate raised from 3% to 5%?

JetBluefan1

platinumfoota · Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:00 am

They will merge with UA along with Spirit Airlines. Lots of talks in UA unions concerning holding seniority in case of merge. UA did state it was interested in merging with someone who has a hub in the Northeast and the A320's will just compliment TED and mainline.

apodino · Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:22 am

Quoting Clipper136 (Reply 104):
Sorry but the third finger cannot be built until RWY 17R/35L is extended to the North (approx 2000')

I know this is a bit off topic, but why is this? Does the third finger extend into an ILS critical area at all? It doesn't seem to
make much sense that a terminal expansion would be tied to a runway extension that really isn't necessary unless its for A380 purposes.

skyyblue · Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:03 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 105):
Hmmm...new uniforms (though I like the current ones),

Most of us *dont* like the uniforms. It's funny all the other airlines and pax tell us how nice they are....we want something a bit more professional looking. Word is that blazers are on the way and hopefully a new dress shirt that the buttons wont fall off.

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 95):
Makes sense. Winter is coming. I'm sure Jetblue would love to be able to advertise that they have more low cost flights than anyone else into Florida. I wonder if the Embraers would be good planes to use further south - MCO-FLL, MCO-PBI, MCO-TPA etc.

MCO-PBI/TPA...are you kidding? I definately think we'll eventually see MCO-FLL to connect the two focus cities. Maybe a couple of E190s a day. The word in Orlando is that LGB, LAS, PUJ, BDA, STI, and SDQ are possibilities for 2008. I've also heard IAD-BDA is going to be announced next year. I would love to see AUS-FLL.

Quoting JetJock22 (Reply 91):
You beat me to it. And when it comes to PIT and CMH loads Skyymaster, they aren't that great.

Loads are not bad, the yields blow.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 88):
That would be a long over due route, BOS-MSY. I have wondered why B6 did not jump on the route after AA didn't bring it back. It would be a perfect fit.

My dream come true. I think we'll see this when we get some more E190s.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 28):
There is a confirmed but un-named order for 12 A330's and options for 18 more, on EADS books. I bet this is Jet Blue!

LOL. I can bet those 330s are NOT for JetBlue. Also, our new T5 will not be equiped with FIS.

VictorKilo · Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:01 pm

One of the things we've seen in the past year is that WN doesn't do all things well, and that it is possible for airlines to start new service between two WN cities and do well. One example is the addition of transcontinental routes like MCO-SAN and SEA-BWI by FL, and the retreat by WN out of the BWI/PHL to OAK/LAX transcon markets. Another example is the majority of XE's branded flying, with the likes of RDU-SDF and ABQ-SMF, routes too thin for the WN 737 but just right for the XE ERJs.

I think B6 has the opportunity to grow by taking aspects of both of these examples. They have an opportunity to use their E-Jets to connect the dots - taking on routes that are too thin and of greater length than the shorter routes WN is focusing on these days.

For example, after cancellation of the transcons, WN will only serve four stations east of the Rockies from OAK (HOU/BNA/MDW/MCI). B6 could use the E-Jets to start up OAK-AUS and OAK-MSY service.

Maybe this is the announcement, maybe it isn't. But it could be the key to a new strategy from B6 - one that could move it closer to the WN model and away from the JFK hub model.

avrocomet · Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting Drgmobile (Reply 97):
Nope, still just an unsubstantiated rumour.

I suppose the whole context of the thread is speculation and rumour. Isn't it all without a press release?

avrocomet · Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:20 pm

Hey Drgmobile, on the 10 Sep 07 in reply #79 on the Jetblue to YYZ post you stated you had spoke with the company and they advised they had visited YYZ but had no plans to fly there.

This is a publicly traded company how would you obtain this information as they have a business plan which usually involves a big spalshy roll out to generate interest and revenue. I do not buy your comments that the company said they are not planning this destination.

I stick by my sources.

TIME WILL TELL ALL.

AsstChiefMark · Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:28 pm

Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 109):
XE ERJs.

Cambodia International Airlines flies Embraers?

[Edited 2007-09-18 06:30:06]

viaggiare · Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:36 pm

It's anybody's guess at this point, but some sort of innovative codesharing with non-aligned foreign carriers operating out of JFK's Terminal 4, perhaps?

Looking forward to seeing them follow in the footsteps of NK and F9 by starting SJO (and/or LIR) in the near future.

B6MoneyGuyJFK · Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:19 pm

Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 113):
It's anybody's guess at this point, but some sort of innovative codesharing with non-aligned foreign carriers operating out of JFK's Terminal 4, perhaps?

Since this is all purely speculation, why not partnering with Vueling?
Jetblue: JFK - Iceland
Vueling: Iceland - Continental Europe

Far fetched I know, but so are some of the other posts, so why not?

CitrusCritter · Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:49 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 112):
Cambodia International Airlines

This is getting old. XE = ExpressJet. Why would we be talking about Cambodia Intl. in this thread?!? Use your heads people!

SkyyMaster · Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:59 pm

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 115):
This is getting old. XE = ExpressJet. Why would we be talking about Cambodia Intl. in this thread?!? Use your heads people!

There are obviously some out of date databases out there.

ptugarin · Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:45 pm

Going transatlantic with A350?

747fan · Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:46 pm

Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 109):
Another example is the majority of XE's branded flying, with the likes of RDU-SDF and ABQ-SMF, routes too thin for the WN 737 but just right for the XE ERJs.

I think B6 has the opportunity to grow by taking aspects of both of these examples. They have an opportunity to use their E-Jets to connect the dots - taking on routes that are too thin and of greater length than the shorter routes WN is focusing on these days.

I think that JetBlue's Embraer 190's would still be too much airplane for the type of routes mentioned above - I can't see RDU-SDF and ABQ-SMF being able to fill an airplane w/ 100 pax. As it is, I think XE only averages about a 50-60% load factor on RDU-SDF, which would be only 25-30 pax (although AA Eagle flies this route also w/ ER3's, which will soon be discontinued IIRC).

PlanesNTrains · Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:32 am

It would seem pretty clear that, if you listen to the folks in this thread who sound the most "in the know", that JetBlue will announce Orlando as a formal base/focus city with an expansion of service, etc. Secondarily, they might also announce some sort of western expansion with the 190's, but I'd think you'd separate these two events out, both from a marketing perspective and an operational one. Maybe the 190's head west in 2008, but the announcement isn't until after the first of the year.

That's my take. No merger. No major midwest announcement. No Canada. No transatlantic. No A330's. No South America. No San Diego/Ontario/Oakland focus city. But of course, we'll see.

-Dave

ERJ170 · Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:44 am

Quoting 747fan (Reply 118):
I can't see RDU-SDF and ABQ-SMF being able to fill an airplane w/ 100 pax. As it is, I think XE only averages about a 50-60% load factor on RDU-SDF, which would be only 25-30 pax (although AA Eagle flies this route also w/ ER3's, which will soon be discontinued IIRC).

True. There is only enough room for one airline on RDU-SDF to be profitable and i think AE should let XE have it. JetBlue would be crazy to even consider it. And if MQ is going to drop it, I say it's about time.

Now, jetBlue can look at other routes from RDU if they really wanted to: BUF, SYR, NAS, SJU, RSW, PBI, OAK, SFO, SAN, SEA.. all current markets.. all unserved.. and all with at least 130 daily pax... all could be 1x daily.. or they could add a DEN flight and it wouldn't take away from UA's flight either because it is still underserved..

But I digress... whatever jetBlue does.. I'm sure it will make everyone say.. Ahhhh..

AEROFAN · Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:49 am

Response to wrong post. sorry

[Edited 2007-09-18 19:51:55]

Clipper136 · Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:55 am

Quoting Apodino (Reply 107):
I know this is a bit off topic, but why is this? Does the third finger extend into an ILS critical area at all? It doesn't seem to
make much sense that a terminal expansion would be tied to a runway extension that really isn't necessary unless its for A380 purposes

Not the ILS critical area...the end of the new wing would penetrate (the top corner by approx 5ft) the imaginary approach surfaces. The plan has been to extend the runway from the time it was built. It was thought that the runway would be extended long before the the last wing would be added.

MAH4546 · Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:41 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 120):

True. There is only enough room for one airline on RDU-SDF to be profitable and i think AE should let XE have it. JetBlue would be crazy to even consider it. And if MQ is going to drop it, I say it's about time.

Within a year, nobody will be on that route anymore. I think the only good thing that has came out of the whole XE/RDU/MQ battle is that one airline will probably still be flying RDU-MCI a year from now, and it isn't XE.

SkyyMaster · Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:16 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 119):
That's my take. No merger.

I have to agree. People get really carried away when things like this "leak" out. If every rumor on a.net came true, the effect on the industry would boggle the imagination.

steeler83 · Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:51 am

Quoting SKYYBLUE (Reply 108):
Loads are not bad, the yields blow.

What are the yields at PIT and CMH, cargohold or basement? Due to fares in the cargohold/basement. They haven't increased fares to $59-$69 to JFK or BOS yet? I think I still saw that a rt from PIT to JFK was still $78, $39 each way. Believe me, I think there would be people willng to pay $59 to JFK or BOS. It's either that or pay triple that, EACH WAY, with US... provided that B6 ups and leaves after their brief period in PIT... (Of course, I don't think a B6 pull-out is very likely anymore...)

Curiousflyer · Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:09 am

It looks like JetBlue is eagerly expected, be it in FL, in Canada, for WiFi or for international travel: everyone wants JetBlue.

I vote for Canada (I want cheap flights to YUL from NYC).

N623JB · Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:10 am

I hope that jetBlue's home base will still be JFK. let them expand as far as the eye can see. They can use terminal 6 when terminal 5 opens..and guess what..the new terminal will double the capacity for jetBlue. Terminal 6 can be used for jetBlue too..maybe another terminal can be used nearby besides 5 and 6 if they wanted to. I support the idea of having bigger aircraft to go across the pond to Europe and possiblly Asia if they really wanted to.

747fan · Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:24 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 123):
Within a year, nobody will be on that route anymore

The performance of RDU-SDF for both AE and XE sucks. Hence the reason AE will be dropping the route soon. Although maybe XE will keep their standalone operation and maybe AE dropping out will help them on this route, I don't know. But point-to-point routes such as this are simply too thin for B6 and their E190's, unless Barger gets hooked on something and buys a bunch of CRJ's/"classic" ERJ's. B6 is much more focused on a hub-spoke operation, or maybe to some extent a focus city-spoke operation. Point-to-point flying is not their business model and won't be their business model.

Rheinbote · Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:37 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 84):
They are switching from the A-319/320 to the 737!!

They are going to buy A321ER

N623JB · Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 129):
They are going to buy A321ER

did someone tell you that they were going to buy those types? I wonder: are those planes capable of flying futher out than the A320?

747fan · Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:51 am

Quoting N623JB (Reply 130):
did someone tell you that they were going to buy those types? I wonder: are those planes capable of flying futher out than the A320?

No. The A320, depending on its MTOW, has a range between about 2600-3000 nm. In comparison, the A321-100 has a range of 2300 nm. and 2600 nm. for the A321-200. So as you can see, an A321-200 has similar range to a lower MTOW A320, but other than that the A321's range is deficient. The longest range variant of the A320 series is the A319, which can fly about 3500 nm. if correctly equipped (high MTOW). As a side note, AC did use the A319 on St. John's to London-Heathrow. But I personally don't see B6 ever entering the transatlantic market.

USAirALB · Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:45 pm

B6 could go JFK-AUS-West Coast or something like that

EMBQA · Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:53 pm

Quoting AA388 (Reply 6):
Why would it be a big deal if the E-190 went to the west coast?

I doubt highly the E190 will go west right now as the route structure is not set up to support it....unless they establish a west coast hub..but even then getting the plane back to JFK for scheduled maintenance would be hard.

Rheinbote · Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting 747fan (Reply 131):
No. The A320, depending on its MTOW, has a range between about 2600-3000 nm. In comparison, the A321-100 has a range of 2300 nm. and 2600 nm. for the A321-200. So as you can see, an A321-200 has similar range to a lower MTOW A320, but other than that the A321's range is deficient.

You are driving by the rear-view mirror.

[Edited 2007-09-22 20:18:29]

SANFan · Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:45 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 133):
I doubt highly the E190 will go west right now as the route structure is not set up to support it....unless they establish a west coast hub..but even then getting the plane back to JFK for scheduled maintenance would be hard.

How hard is it to add a daily 190 r/t between, say, SAN and AUS, tagged on to one of the existing 3 AUS-JFK flights? You have an instant flight across the country that can move west coast-based a/c to JFK (or wherever mx is) and back on a daily basis.

In fact here's an example of such a schedule:
(existing) flight 1065 Lv JFK: 1:35pm Ar AUS: 4:38pm/(add on) Lv AUS 5:15pm Ar SAN: 6:20pm
flight 1068 (add on) Lv SAN: 12:05pm Ar AUS: 4:45pm/(to existing) Lv AUS 5:20pm Ar JFK: 10:15pm (RON)

Other potential connecting points would be ORD, HOU, BNA and maybe DEN. If any new mid-western stations are added, like STL, OMA or TUL, you instantly have more possibilities between west and east.

I'm certain it's only a matter of time before there is a west coast sub-fleet of 190s and my bet is sooner rather than later.

bb

EMBQA · Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:00 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 135):
How hard is it to add a daily 190 r/t between, say, SAN and AUS,

Harder then you think. Your also talking parts, training, spares......a lot more to it then you'd understand. Then with your routes there is no other cities to fly to from SAN. (right now) Flying to LGB would work because it opens up flights to OAK, LAS and SLC, but could you use an E190 on those routes..? What are load demands like...?? I'm sure they average more then 100 pax per flight and that takes the E190 out

[Edited 2007-09-22 21:10:43]

af773atmsp · Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:46 am

B6 is going to start service at MSP and MSP will be a focus city. hyper

B6 will fly out of the Lindbergh Terminal and start MSP-BOS, MSP-PDX, MSP-SEA, MSP-Long Beach, MSP-OAK, and some other routes from MSP.

CitrusCritter · Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:48 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 137):

Heh. If they were going to go into a fortress, why not go into CVG where they can put a hurting on primary JFK competition DL?

N623JB · Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:36 pm

I dont think anyone here thought about the future of jetBlue inflight service. not sure. Anyway, what has been around is now going to say here. On board the jetBlue flights, there will be food offered (on sale)and also pillow/blankets.
That may happen as well. But for a price to pay for a blanket/pillow and of course the food seperately.

flybyguy · Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:00 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 28):
It will either be about a merger with Virgin America...

Or the one I have my money on, is that they will be launching TransAtlantic flights to Europe, when Open Skies starts next year...

There is a confirmed but un-named order for 12 A330's and options for 18 more, on EADS books. I bet this is Jet Blue!

There have also been rumours going around BAA that they have been in talks with Jet Blue about starting routes from either LGW or STN, so all the parts of jigsaw puzzle are now beginning to fall in place!

The trans-atlantic service will be remenicent of the failed People Express business model.

A merger with Virgin America is even less likely because the company hasn't even made a name for itself yet, but such a notion is not without merit. SRB had a keen interest in jetblue when it was just a startup. Jetblue almost was Virgin America back in 1999, but then IIRC there was a falling out between SRB and jetblue's managment.

deltaflyertoo · Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:11 am

Quote:
The trans-atlantic service will be remenicent of the failed People Express business model.

Actually trans Atlantic worked OKAY at the time for People Express. I believe the EWR-LGW runs on those 747s were always packed. The problem was what to do w/ the 747s besides EWR-LGW. I.E. they tried to utilize them to LAX and OAK but faced stiff competition from the legacies at that point. Even by today's standards a 747 transcon is too much plane. At any rate it was the extra utilization of the 747s outside of transatlantic that was bleeding the company.

With what B6 has now at JFK, they could TOTALLY do well trans atlantic. A used 767 or A330-200 would fit just just well. Remember the flights are only about 6 hours from JFK to Europe, not much longer than JFK to LGB/OAK. So for the right fare, people would be willing to do it with just tera blue chips and maybe a sandwhich.

N623JB · Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:29 am

B6 should go across the "pond"(Atlantic Ocean)..
who ever said about the confirmed but unknown order of A330's from the EADS book? can you send me a link So I can see it? thank you.

rw717 · Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:45 am

I have a very good source that has told me that B6 will start SFO-LGB with the E190 in March or May.

Jerseyguy · Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:15 am

Quoting RW717 (Reply 143):
I have a very good source that has told me that B6 will start SFO-LGB with the E190 in March or May.

2 problems with that

1. F9 couldn't make SFO-LAX work
2. LGB is slot controlled and the E190 doesn't qualify for commuter slots.

jetbluefan1 · Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:06 pm

Unless JetBlue miraculously worked out a deal with LGB to have its E190's qualify for the commuter slots, I don't see LGB-SFO starting. Unless....could this be B6's pull-out of LGB-OAK? And with FLL-OAK leaving the JetBlue system in a few months, could we expect to see a continued shrinking presence at the airport - perhaps to the extent of moving all operations to SFO?

It wouldn't make any sense to me seeing that VA is now up and running across the bay, but who knows...

Hmm. Something fishy is definitely going on here. Hopefully we'll find out more next month.

(Oh, and too add fuel to the fire, LGB-IAD is going down to 2x this winter from its traditionl 3. Could LAX be up and coming as well?)

JetBluefan1

deltaflyertoo · Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:58 pm

The only "big announcement" would have to be LAX at this point. As pointed out moving the 190s out west isn't feasable and, is it really that exciting of a press announcment that the none a.net buffs would care? Doubtful a europe expansion, it has to be LAX or a beef up of service at an existing station i.e. Houston or Chicago.

yvr1968 · Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:23 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 5):
New stations YYZ, YUL, and YYC with 3/1/1 daily flights using E190 from JFK (YYZ 1x daily to BOS)

I am sure we would see YVR flights well before flights to YYC.

I could defnitely see YYZ flights starting soon.

N623JB · Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:30 pm

anybody have hints with jetBlue flying over the Ocean?

GoBlue · Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:44 pm

They already do when they go to the caribbean Smile

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