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AF340
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Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:19 am

I was talking to someone in SEA and I wonder why LH doesn't fly into SEA. It's probably the landing fees, but they fly in YYZ and we have really high landing fees. I would think SEA would be more profitable than PDX.
What do you think?



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S12PPL
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:21 am

Simple....

PDX

LH chose PDX over SEA.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
doug_or
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:23 am

SEA already has AMS, LHR, and CPH.
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HanginOut
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:26 am

They fly to PDX and YVR. While LH may one day fly to SEA, it won't be in the near future as there are many more routes out there that could be far more profitable and productive for LH than SEA.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:32 am

Two factors.

First, SEA already has a number of transatlantic options: LHR on BA, CPH on SK (for how long?), AMS on NW, and now CDG on AF. PDX had none at all before LH came in. SEA is less than twice the size of PDX, so PDX probably can offer LH more passengers thanks to all the extra competition in SEA.

Second, PDX worked very hard to attract LH, including offering some financial help. SEA did not need to match PDX's offer given its existing transatlantic service.

The real Pacific Northwest mystery to me is why YVR attracts so much more international service than SEA despite SEA's metro area being about half again as big as that of YVR.
 
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:39 am

Thanks for clearing that up for me  Smile


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MAH4546
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:43 am

Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 4):
The real Pacific Northwest mystery to me is why YVR attracts so much more international service than SEA despite SEA's metro area being about half again as big as that of YVR.

There is absolutely no mystery here. Vancouver is the economic capital of Western Canada and one of the three most important cities in Canada. It has one of the world's most diverse populations, far more diverse than Seattle, and is an immigrant haven. It also plays a far more important role in Canada's economy, and as Canada's west coast financial centre, than Seattle does in the US' economy.
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doug_or
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:44 am

Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 4):
The real Pacific Northwest mystery to me is why YVR attracts so much more international service than SEA despite SEA's metro area being about half again as big as that of YVR.

Are Canadians more "international"? Whenever I travel overseas I seems to meet almost as many Canadians as Americans, despite their country's relative population size. I know cheapskates and backpackers don't pay the bills, but perhaps their is a higher percentage of international buisness, too?
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:48 am

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 2):
SEA already has AMS, LHR, and CPH

don't forget CDG  Wink

CPH-SEA has been around for ages.

I think LH chose PDX as well due to Nike or Adidas making an incentive with LH for service to PDX. Though it did wake up the airport between that, NW to NRT, and the rumors of a PDX-AMS flight (wonder what happened to those rumors btw).

If only I got a nickel for everytime I heard "LH, why PDX instead?"  Silly
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seabosdca
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:02 pm

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 8):
CPH-SEA has been around for ages.

I know that... as a SEA resident from 1976 to 2005 Big grin. I was wondering about the future. SK is certainly looking at some revamping and possible retrenchment in their long-haul network. I honestly don't know how SEA, as a heavily seasonal route for which they don't have perfect equipment (A333 can't quite make it happen year-round, A343 is a bit of overkill), will stack up in their evaluations.
 
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:12 pm

The answer is simple....."PORTLAND, OREGON THE CITY OF ROSES"...Lufthansa can make more money here being the ONLY nonstop flight out of PDX to Europe....Sorry Seattle, you can't have everything................
 
MAH4546
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:13 pm

Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 9):
(A333 can't quite make it happen year-round, A343 is a bit of overkill),

SAS' A330-300 aircraft actually have 19 more seats than their A340s.
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Viscount724
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:19 pm

Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 4):
The real Pacific Northwest mystery to me is why YVR attracts so much more international service than SEA despite SEA's metro area being about half again as big as that of YVR.

I've seen statistics in the past indicating that a significantly higher percentage of Canadians make longhaul international trips than Americans. In YVR's case, as others have mentioned, much of it probably relates to YVR being Canada's only major west coast city, while the USA has several large cities and international traffic has traditionally gravitated to LAX and SFO.

Another factor is probably because some carriers that serve YVR consider SEA too close to warrant serving both points. I recall JL served SEA briefly some years ago but it was unprofitable and they dropped it fairly quickly. They've been serving YVR continuously since 1967. When BA first started service to SEA it was a tag-on from YVR until traffic developed to the point where they could justify a stand-alone LHR-SEA flight.

Another issue was probably that the bilaterals between certain countries and the USA limited (and some still limit) the number of US gateways that could be served which would probably result in carriers picking LAX or SFO rather than SEA simply because of the larger potential market and wider variety of connecting opportunities.
 
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:03 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
SAS' A330-300 aircraft actually have 19 more seats than their A340s

That will change as the 343 is planning to be refurbished to match the 333
 
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:21 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
Another issue was probably that the bilaterals between certain countries and the USA limited (and some still limit) the number of US gateways that could be served which would probably result in carriers picking LAX or SFO rather than SEA simply because of the larger potential market and wider variety of connecting opportunities.

You do bring up many valid reasons why YVR sees more variety, but this I disagree with you on this one. The United States, in general, has some of the world's least restrictive bilaterals. I doubt there is any airlines being kept out of Seattle due to limited bilaterals.
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jjeff
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:55 pm

I think it's more about the SAS flight than anything else. I'm sure SAS's SEA-CPH loads would be gutted if LH were to start SEA-FRA with its much superior connection options. As we all know, LH and SK are Star partners and I suspect there has been some agreement, either overt or tacit, that LH will stay clear of Seattle. Can anyone provide/confim details about such arrangements (i.e. anti trust immunity etc.)?
 
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:55 pm

Sea has a one stop FRA service through UA. (UAL 917). I am sure UA wouldn't like its brother come over and get customers from this convenient (?!) one-stop. To be honest with you SEA can use a FRA non-stop with a UAL 767. Just look at the SEA-FRA traffic connecting through SFO/IAD/ORD.
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting Bahadir (Reply 16):
Sea has a one stop FRA service through UA

Come on, though. It may be the same flight number, but it requires an aircraft change at IAD. It's just a garden variety connection.
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bobnwa
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:07 am

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 8):
and the rumors of a PDX-AMS flight (wonder what happened to those rumors btw).

Those rumors were only on this board. There was never anything from Northwest or PDX about Northwest going PDX-AMS.
It was just a member making a statement that he heard that Northwest was looking at................ to see what responses he could get. After that other members reported they had heard a rumor on this board.
 
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gunsontheroof
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 4):
CPH on SK (for how long?)

I'd really like to know where people are getting the idea that this service is going anywhere. CPH-SEA is one of SAS' longest running international routes and has continued uninterrupted for 40+ years even as service to other destinations (LAX even) was ended. I have no reason to believe that SK will be dropping SEA anytime soon (though if they did, I'd bet LH would have their foot in the door overnight).

As has already been stated, LH chose PDX over SEA some years ago. As the only show in town there, they're sitting pretty. Competition on Seattle-Europe flights is stiff and gets pretty fierce in the summer with something in the neighborhood of thirty flights a week on BA, SK, AF and NW. At some point, LH service to see will probably happen, but it's not going to be anytime soon.
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:25 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
There is absolutely no mystery here. Vancouver is the economic capital of Western Canada and one of the three most important cities in Canada. It has one of the world's most diverse populations, far more diverse than Seattle, and is an immigrant haven. It also plays a far more important role in Canada's economy, and as Canada's west coast financial centre, than Seattle does in the US' economy.

 checkmark  This is also the very reason YVR sees much more traffic to the far east than SEA and has flights to PEK & PVG. The best hope for SEA is that a U.S. flag carrier such as NW, DL or AA chooses them for a subsequent flight in the future since they do have a large China population and business connections there (BOS is another example for China flights, but in the shadow of EWR & JFK).
PDX is existing and is far enough away from YVR not to be competitive with that service. SEA customers can choose PDX or YVR for an LH flight to FRA. They can also choose:

Quoting Bahadir (Reply 16):
Sea has a one stop FRA service through UA. (UAL 917). I am sure UA wouldn't like its brother come over and get customers from this convenient (?!) one-stop. To be honest with you SEA can use a FRA non-stop with a UAL 767. Just look at the SEA-FRA traffic connecting through SFO/IAD/ORD.

But you're right that UA is big enough in SEA that they could do it themselves, but why get a fellow Star partner ticked off at them, or at least running that risk?
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:38 am

Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 9):
I honestly don't know how SEA, as a heavily seasonal route for which they don't have perfect equipment (A333 can't quite make it happen year-round, A343 is a bit of overkill), will stack up in their evaluations.

Scuttlebutt says SEA-CPH is one of SK's better flights in terms of loads and revenues.

SEA used to be a very important Asian gateway city back when widebodies had much shorter legs then they do today. Once longer-range models came out that allowed direct flights from SFO and LAX, SEA lost a lot of relevance and was downsized as traffic that used to connect through it now flew direct.

With US/Canada transit becoming more and more difficult, YVR is less convenient as an option for Pacific Northwesterners, so SEA is starting to see a gradual restoration of international flights.
 
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:51 am

Quoting LHPDX (Reply 10):
Sorry Seattle, you can't have everything................

Someday you PDX folks are going to have to get over your inferiority complex...  Wink
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Mike89406
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:59 am

Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 4):
SEA is less than twice the size of PDX, so PDX probably can offer LH more passengers thanks to all the extra competition in SEA.

I wasn't aware that PDX was twice the size of SEA it seemed like a pretty big airport to me even in the 90's. PDX didn't look that big to me.
 
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:02 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 21):
Scuttlebutt says SEA-CPH is one of SK's better flights in terms of loads and revenues.

I've heard that too. SEA-CPH is one of the more profitable longhaul routes for SAS. I'd be very surprised to see them drop it.

Charles, SJ
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Mike89406
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:05 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 22):
Quoting LHPDX (Reply 10):
Sorry Seattle, you can't have everything................

Someday you PDX folks are going to have to get over your inferiority complex...

Totally agree
 Smile
 
seattleflyer
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:17 am

Quoting Mike89406 (Reply 23):
Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 4):
SEA is less than twice the size of PDX, so PDX probably can offer LH more passengers thanks to all the extra competition in SEA.

I wasn't aware that PDX was twice the size of SEA it seemed like a pretty big airport to me even in the 90's. PDX didn't look that big to me.

Mike, I believe you misread Seabosdca's statement. I think he's saying the Seattle Metro area is almost twice as big as the Portland Metro area in terms of population.
 
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gunsontheroof
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:20 am

Quoting Mike89406 (Reply 23):

I wasn't aware that PDX was twice the size of SEA it seemed like a pretty big airport to me even in the 90's. PDX didn't look that big to me.

The post you quoted was poorly worded. I think it was the markets (not the airports) that were being referred to (again, an example of why I think a.netter's tendencies to refer to cities by their airport code is dumb), and what was being said was that Portland's market is about half the size of Seattle's.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 22):
Someday you PDX folks are going to have to get over your inferiority complex... Wink

 checkmark 

This only seems to be an issue on a.net. In the "real world", Portland is the hippest place on the planet.
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:29 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
There is absolutely no mystery here. Vancouver is the economic capital of Western Canada and one of the three most important cities in Canada. It has one of the world's most diverse populations, far more diverse than Seattle, and is an immigrant haven. It also plays a far more important role in Canada's economy, and as Canada's west coast financial centre, than Seattle does in the US' economy.

Be careful assuming such things. Seattle is home to Boeing and Microsoft. They are only the two biggest exporters in the USA in terms of monetary value. Those two alone probably dwarfs the value of Vancouver's economy.  Wink
 
Mike89406
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:32 am

Quoting SeattleFlyer (Reply 26):
Mike, I believe you misread Seabosdca's statement. I think he's saying the Seattle Metro area is almost twice as big as the Portland Metro area in terms of population.



Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 27):
The post you quoted was poorly worded. I think it was the markets (not the airports) that were being referred to (again, an example of why I think a.netter's tendencies to refer to cities by their airport code is dumb), and what was being said was that Portland's market is about half the size of Seattle's.

My mistake.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 27):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 22):
Someday you PDX folks are going to have to get over your inferiority complex... Wink



This only seems to be an issue on a.net. In the "real world", Portland is the hippest place on the planet

I happen to think Portland is a cool place and I actually lived in both cities a long time ago. Having said all of that I like Seattle as well but I thought that comment about Seattle was inappropriate for this conversation.

Just my 2 cents.....
 
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gunsontheroof
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:34 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 28):
Be careful assuming such things. Seattle is home to Boeing and Microsoft. They are only the two biggest exporters in the USA in terms of monetary value. Those two alone probably dwarfs the value of Vancouver's economy.

Maybe, but the point is quite correct. Vancouver is an infinitely bigger deal on the west coast of Canada (and in Canada as a whole) than Seattle is on the west coast of the U.S. and the U.S. as a whole. There's no comparison between the respective roles each city plays in their countries. If we're talking about only the PNW region, then yes, Seattle is the main economic powerhouse. The international border between the two cities makes that negligible.
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ctbarnes
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:42 am

As I recall the reason why LH chose PDX over SEA had to do with the incentive package the Portland area put together to attract LH. That along with no transatlantic non-stop flights and lobbying by Intel and Nike probably sealed it.

I have heard off and on rumors that LH will start flying into SEA, but I don't think it's likely. As mentioned above, Lufthansa's Star Alliance Partner SK already operates a US-Europe flight, and with BA's apparent plans to increase capacity on the SEA-LHR route, it's my guess is whether LH can make the route pay.

Charles, SJ
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MAH4546
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:50 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 28):
Be careful assuming such things. Seattle is home to Boeing and Microsoft. They are only the two biggest exporters in the USA in terms of monetary value. Those two alone probably dwarfs the value of Vancouver's economy.

No need to be careful. I realize Seattle is home to Microsoft, but you are underestimating the size of Vancouver's economy to quite an insulting degree. You also fail to realize that Vancouver is more important to Canada than Seattle is to the United States. In addition, Boeing, while still important to the Seattle area, is based in Chicago.
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:51 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 28):
Be careful assuming such things. Seattle is home to Boeing and Microsoft. They are only the two biggest exporters in the USA in terms of monetary value. Those two alone probably dwarfs the value of Vancouver's economy.

Interesting you should mention those 2 as Boeing's headquarters are located in Chicago. Before you say that Boeing does the bulk of their manufacturing in the Seattle area, I don't believe Microsoft does the bulk of their manufacturing in the area, so it evens out your claims. Port of Vancouver is Canada's largest, don't underestimate that fact.
 
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:54 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):
In addition, Boeing, while still important to the Seattle area, is based in Chicago.

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the places from which Boeing's corporate travel (and the travel done commercially particularly) originates. Though, as you rightly point out, headquarters is in Chicago, the corporate jets are at GYY, which MIGHT (and I have no idea if this is the case) suggest that a lot of their commercial flying is still ex-SEA. I don't know.
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:59 am

This is "SeaBosDca can't write" day, apparently.  blush 

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
SAS' A330-300 aircraft actually have 19 more seats than their A340s.

You're right, of course... I was unclear about what I meant by "overkill." The A343 is arguably too heavy and long-range an aircraft to be optimal on a relatively short long-haul route like CPH-SEA. Of course, an A332 (if SK had one) might carry too few pax, and the A333 lacks the range, so I suppose the A343 is the only choice.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 27):
The post you quoted was poorly worded. I think it was the markets (not the airports) that were being referred to (again, an example of why I think a.netter's tendencies to refer to cities by their airport code is dumb), and what was being said was that Portland's market is about half the size of Seattle's

My bad. What I meant was that the Seattle market is less than twice the size of the Portland market, and that as a result a lone new transatlantic flight from PDX might be more successful than a new flight, added to the 4 existing ones, from SEA.

Seattle metro: ~3.3 million
Portland metro: ~2.3 million
Vancouver metro: ~2.1 million
 
TPAPDX
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:34 am

Quoting Mike89406 (Reply 23):

I think the poster meant that Seattle is just shy of being twice the size of PDX.
 
Someone83
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:37 am

Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 35):
You're right, of course... I was unclear about what I meant by "overkill." The A343 is arguably too heavy and long-range an aircraft to be optimal on a relatively short long-haul route like CPH-SEA. Of course, an A332 (if SK had one) might carry too few pax, and the A333 lacks the range, so I suppose the A343 is the only choice

The 343 is not an overkill for the CPH-SEA route. As mentioned the 333 doesn't have the range without severe weight penalties and the 332 is smaller, both in term of pax and cargo. The 343 is a quite good aircraft for the CPH-SEA route.

CPH-SEA is a 10 hour flight
 
mutu
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:46 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 33):
Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 28):
Be careful assuming such things. Seattle is home to Boeing and Microsoft. They are only the two biggest exporters in the USA in terms of monetary value. Those two alone probably dwarfs the value of Vancouver's economy.

Interesting you should mention those 2 as Boeing's headquarters are located in Chicago. Before you say that Boeing does the bulk of their manufacturing in the Seattle area, I don't believe Microsoft does the bulk of their manufacturing in the area, so it evens out your claims. Port of Vancouver is Canada's largest, don't underestimate that fact.

Well right or wrong there is clearly a strong market to Europe and beyond with BA today announcing an increase in weekly freuencies from 10 to 13 SEA/LHR, following on from last years increase from 7 to 10. It also looks light double daily 747 during the summer
 
717-200
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:57 am

Maybe another German airline like LTU or Condor might consider SEA-FRA or DUS service.

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 2):
SEA already has AMS, LHR, and CPH.

Don't forget CDG as well with AF's A332's
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rwsea
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RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:30 am

I think this has been discussed multiple times on this board, with similar answers. I would like to add a few points though.

First, we keep hearing about how LH doesn't want to cannibalize SK, but I'm not sure that's the most valid concern. SK is a long-established player between SEA and Scandanavia, and the majority of traffic on the flight is destined to Scandanavia. There are important business and VFR ties to Scandanavia for which SK will continue to be an important player (and yes I'm aware that VFR traffic doens't keep the flight in business, but at the same time, traditional ties between SEA and Scandanavia are one of the reasons this flight has stayed while LAX, SFO, etc. have come and go). Yes there are connections throughout Europe, but SK is not always the most attractive for those (given the relatively late arrival in CPH). LH on the other hand, would offer more connections throughout the Middle East and most importantly to India, both of which are places where SK is extremely weak. Not to mention there is a good amount of O&D between SEA and FRA (for instance, T-Mobile's US headquarters are in SEA, in addition to the other ties with Microsoft, Boeing, etc.). So to say that all the Star Alliance traffic would immediately shift to LH and kill SK off the route isn't quite up to snuff.

Another thing to consider is that AF and NW are both in the same alliance, and at the same time, AF/KL has anti-trust immunity across the Atlantic with NW. In other words, AF and NW know how each others' flights between SEA-AMS/CDG are doing. Despite the fact that they're in the same alliance, they both operate flights to Europe. And all signs are showing that AF is doing well, especially considering the cost of fares from SEA and the fact that SEA is rarely included in even the "winter sale" emails that I get from AF (while cities like NYC, ORD, IAD, etc. are included).

Now back to LH and PDX. As has already been pointed out, LH gauged the risk of of being yet another player in SEA or having the market to themselves in PDX. And it looks like their choice paid off as the PDX flight is holding its own. Not only do they have the benefit of being the only player in town, but they've been very smart with their marketing and are gaining a good reputation in the market. Additionally, PDX has always been a relatively strong market for UA (UA is still the strongest legacy there) so the Star Alliance connection works in their favor.

As has been mentioned in this thread, while yes SEA is a much larger city than YVR, it's significance to western half of the country isn't as strong as YVR is to Canada. YVR is a more international and famous city abroad than SEA, and will always generate more international traffic due to these factors and simply because it's the only hub in Western Canada. that's ok. The markets are completely different, and I don't think that YVR really hurts SEA that much. Very few folks in SEA would consider driving to YVR to catch an international flight given the customs hassle, traffic, etc. It's just as time efficient to connect somewhere on the east coast, or in Europe or Asia. SEA actually has a pretty healthy level of international service considering where it's located, the size of the metro (roughly comparable to MSP, PHX, BOS, SAN, give or take 1M people) and the fact that it isn't a hub for a major international carrier. We have good solid connections to Europe and Asia, with more Asia flights on the way. I'd like to see CX add SEA, and see KE go daily, but after that I think we'll just about be covered.

Quoting Mutu (Reply 38):
Well right or wrong there is clearly a strong market to Europe and beyond with BA today announcing an increase in weekly freuencies from 10 to 13 SEA/LHR, following on from last years increase from 7 to 10. It also looks light double daily 747 during the summer

That's interesting, thanks for the update. BA has been doing very well in SEA as of late, a large part of which has been fueled by demand to/from India. It was only once daily a few years back, now it's more than daily year-round. Virgin has shown an interest in SEA once they get their 787s, so I wonder if part of this is trying to keep them at bay. Or to prevent new entrants once open skies happen?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26723
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:53 am

Quoting AF340 (Thread starter):
It's probably the landing fees,

That is definitely not what it is.

Quoting AF340 (Thread starter):
I would think SEA would be more profitable than PDX.

Not when you consider all the money LH is given to run the flights.

Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 4):


The real Pacific Northwest mystery to me is why YVR attracts so much more international service than SEA despite SEA's metro area being about half again as big as that of YVR.

Read MAH's post

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):

SAS' A330-300 aircraft actually have 19 more seats than their A340s.

Yeah, but they burn a lot less gas.

Quoting Bahadir (Reply 16):
Sea has a one stop FRA service through UA. (UAL 917). I am sure UA wouldn't like its brother come over and get customers from this convenient (?!) one-stop.

I don't think that UA or LH cares much about that.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 20):

But you're right that UA is big enough in SEA that they could do it themselves, but why get a fellow Star partner ticked off at them, or at least running that risk?

If that was an issue, UA would not be starting up LAX-FRA, which is one of Lufthansa's most profitable US routes.

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 28):
Seattle is home to Boeing and Microsoft.

And?

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 28):
Those two alone probably dwarfs the value of Vancouver's economy.

Probably not, and definitely not the value to the country as a whole.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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seabosdca
Posts: 6607
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 40):
That's interesting, thanks for the update. BA has been doing very well in SEA as of late, a large part of which has been fueled by demand to/from India.

Interesting. I wonder if we'll see AI or IT try to break into the market. If SFO-BLR is going to be a roaring success (as pretty much everyone seems to think), it seems like a SEA-India flight might also work. The distance is somewhat shorter -- certainly within reach of a 787...  scratchchin 
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26600
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:33 am

Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 42):
If SFO-BLR is going to be a roaring success (as pretty much everyone seems to think), it seems like a SEA-India flight might also work.

There is absolutely no logic in that statement.

For what's it worth, though, when Northwest announce Bangalore service, which was canceled before it started, the routing was planned to be Seattle-Amsterdam-Bangalore.
a.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:39 am

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 37):
The 343 is a quite good aircraft for the CPH-SEA route. CPH-SEA is a 10 hour flight

CPH-SEA is actually the shortest of all current continental Europe-SEA nonstop routes, and only 68 nm further than LHR-SEA.

CPH-SEA 4868 nm
AMS-SEA 4886 nm
CDG-SEA 5016 nm
LHR-SEA 4800 nm

Interestingly, when AY used to operate HEL-SEA, that was the shortest route of all, 4783 nm.
 
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Stitch
Posts: 27604
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:46 am

Considering how UA and LH split all their TATL revenues, an LH SEA-FRA service would be more likely to draw traffic away from UA, who operates UA917 as a "through" flight via IAD, plus has connections via ORD and SFO (and now, LAX) then it would from SK.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 43):
There is absolutely no logic in th(e) statement (that SEA-India would be a success).

Why not? We have a large number of Indian technical workers here in SEA.
 
davidkunzVIE
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:32 am

RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:49 am

If LH has someone else to do the work for them, they'll gladly accept it.
DH3 DH4 CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 F70 732 733 734 73G 738 752 762 763 772 742 743 319 320 321 333 343
 
N1120A
Posts: 26723
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:49 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 45):

Why not? We have a large number of Indian technical workers here in SEA.

There are a large number of Indian technical workers in a lot of places. Using that logic alone, HSV-DEL should be a huge route, which it of course isn't.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 47):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 45):

Why not? We have a large number of Indian technical workers here in SEA.

There are a large number of Indian technical workers in a lot of places. Using that logic alone, HSV-DEL should be a huge route, which it of course isn't.

Microsoft recently announced that they were opening a fairly large programming development facility in YVR due to more lenient Canadian immigration laws that make it easier for foreigners with the necessary skills from places like India etc. to obtain a visa to work in Canada than in the USA.
http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/...p-to-near-shoring-in-Canada_1.html
http://weblog.infoworld.com/realityc.../08/microsoft_tech.html?source=rss
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27604
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Why Doesn't LH Fly To SEA?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:03 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 47):
There are a large number of Indian technical workers in a lot of places. Using that logic alone, HSV-DEL should be a huge route, which it of course isn't.

Well they're getting here somehow. So the O&D demand is evidently there, even if right now it's funneled through multiple connection points, first (SFO, LAX, YVR, JFK, LHR, AMS, NRT).

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