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deltadc9
Topic Author
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Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:44 am

I grew up flying alone, and when I did Delta always sat me in a row close to the FA's and with noone else in the row.

That being said, I was listening to a talk show about advice to give to children when they feel threatened, and the advice was to always run to a woman, preferably a mother with a stroller or small children and to never seek assistance from a man.

Then, while explaining the logic behind that they said most airlines have a policy tto seat a child flying alone only next to a woman.

It this true? Not that I have a problem with this, just never hear this before.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
6yjjk
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:06 am

I've heard of this before, though never experienced it. The few times I flew as a UM, I was in the back of a Dash Seven with four or five other UMs - and kept firmly in check by a no-nonsense F/A  Smile

While I can see where they're coming from, I resent the implication that penis ownership automatically qualifies an adult as a child-molester - and that non-ownership automatically disqualifies. And if you're going to move me, in front of a plane-load of people, so the child can sit alone, you'd damn well better be upgrading me (and my penis) to F.

Now, if there's something that would stop them putting the kid behind me where they can kick the back of my seat... Big grin
 
Halophila
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:15 am

Definitely true - there was at least one post in the last year. I don't want to offer my opinion on this issue, since I can see both sides of the argument.

That said, we are trained as academics to never close our office door with a male or female student in the office alone (OK if there are multiple students in the office), and never to be present in a room with children without a female present. It's simply a liability thing to protect ourselves. It takes one complaint from a student or child of sexual misconduct and our careers are blown - whether the allegation is proven true or not!!
Flown on A36 310 319 320 321 332 333 343 388 350 707 717 727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 743 744 74SP 757 753 762 763 772 773 77W 787 D10 DC9 M11 M80 M87 CRJ CR7 CR9 CR1000 120 135 145 175 190 146 F28 F50 F70 F100 Tristar
 
flytuitravel
Posts: 491
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:30 am

I was sat next to women on all my UM flights this summer which were LHR-DXB-BWN and BWN-DXB in Y. From DXB to LHR I was sat on my own in Business, but I would have sat next to a man had I not been moved shortly after I got on the plane as the woman I was next to on the BWN-DXB leg got off at DXB... has this anything to do with me being moved, because I would have been next to a man? This was on Royal Brunei Airlines btw.
 
cygnuschicago
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:46 am

Quite timely. The WSJ had an article on men as predators last week. They spoke about the very flight issue. Interestingly, while men are more likely to be child abusers, abused children that die, are more likely to be killed by women.

Racial profiling is already ingrained in our society - whether we like it or not. Expect gender profiling to follow the same route.
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
 
BCAL
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:54 am

There was a thread recently. I have tried a search but only came up with the following which is older than I thought. BA: Men Can't Sit With UM (by Morecy Mar 16 2001 in Civil Aviation)
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
deltadc9
Topic Author
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:06 am

Quoting 6YJJK (Reply 1):
While I can see where they're coming from, I resent the implication that penis ownership automatically qualifies an adult as a child-molester - and that non-ownership automatically disqualifies

The explanation is that you simply cannot expect a child to understand the fact that only a few men they will ever encounter are a real danger, and they cant be expected to tell the difference. Its just easier for the child to tell them "avoid all strange men".

Quoting 6YJJK (Reply 1):
And if you're going to move me, in front of a plane-load of people, so the child can sit alone, you'd damn well better be upgrading me (and my penis) to F.

Damn strait!

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 4):
while men are more likely to be child abusers, abused children that die, are more likely to be killed by women.

And both are far more likely to be related or well known to the child than strangers.

[Edited 2007-09-19 20:15:03]
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
CitrusCritter
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:11 am

When I flew UM SLC-ATL, it was next to a guy. The F/A was by to check on me often though, especially as I was in F.  Wink
- CitrusCritter
Long Live the 717!
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cygnuschicago
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 7):
When I flew UM SLC-ATL, it was next to a guy

I don't think "21-25 year old, law student" is considered a child by anyone. If they were checking on you, it was probably because there was an unaccompanied minor near you, and you were seen as a "high risk male passenger"  Wink
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
 
AF2323
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:43 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Thread starter):
Then, while explaining the logic behind that they said most airlines have a policy tto seat a child flying alone only next to a woman.

For what it worth, Air France has no such policy... I've already been seated next to an UM. Everything went fine, and he even let me play with his Game Boy!  biggrin 
 
xtoler
Posts: 278
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:49 am

When I was a flight attendant it didn't really matter who sits next to whom in regards to UM's. I was taught to keep them close to my jump seat if possible. Then again I was flying in a 50 pax EMB145, so what's not close to the jump seat? I've been a UM many times back in the day and can emphasize with them. A lot of the kids are from military families, which I am an Air Force vet, and come from a military family, so I can really understand where the kids are coming from. The first few times I had UM's on my flight were a little awkward, as at the time I didn't have kids of my own, and being a straight male (sorry, but we are rare in the industry) I never really had much to do with kids. In the summer months and over holidays I've dealt with so many UM's I got used to it pretty quick, and they are usually the best passengers I've carried.

Although I do have to mention a potentially embarrassing moment as I was expecting a 13 year old UM from MSY to STL. We were checking out this hot babe out the flight deck window into the jet way. The gate agent was at the door and I just happened to ask him where the UM was. The UM was the "hot chick" me and the captain was checking out. She looked more like 23 and built like that. I'm sorry, but I don't know a lot of 5'8" 13 year olds, looking like that. I think for that God blessed me with two beautiful daughters. I hope they look ugly in their teenage years and the shotgun is already behind my front door. Only kidding, except for the shotgun part.

All joking aside, if anything were to happen to a UM on my flights, the offending adult will be dealt with by removing that person from the seat and captain notified. At least that's the proper proceedure anyway. In reality if my passengers hasn't already kicked the offenders ass before me and removed from his/her seat, then the captain gets notified. Then again there's not a whole lot anyone can get away with in an RJ that I or anyone else won't see.
EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
 
tonyban
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:39 am

Are all men evil ???? I wouldn't think so. I'm 45, father of three and fly alone all the time. Does that make me a threat to an UM ? On the contarary, I would treat any child as my own.
But airlines need to look out for this very precious cargo and so it's very understandable. Just my opinion. Thanks
 
xtoler
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:47 am

Quoting Tonyban (Reply 11):
Are all men evil ????

Yeah, we are, according to man hating women. Rest assured 99.9% of people are pretty normal and have the same sentiment. Despite what we here, something heinous to happen while on board a/c would be very rare.
EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
 
Viscount724
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:51 am

Quoting AF2323 (Reply 9):
For what it worth, Air France has no such policy... I've already been seated next to an UM.

Neither does LX. I was seated next to a UM (female) about 10 years old on an LX flight a couple of weeks ago.
 
Mir
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:17 am

Quoting 6YJJK (Reply 1):
While I can see where they're coming from, I resent the implication that penis ownership automatically qualifies an adult as a child-molester

 checkmark  Unfortunately, it all comes down to liability (as with so many seemingly ridiculous things these days).

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
pilotboi
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:57 am

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 8):
I don't think "21-25 year old, law student" is considered a child by anyone.

He didn't say he did it recently, did he? Could have been many years ago.
 
aamr
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:07 am

I've been a CSA for 2 large American/International carriers now over the past year and I have never heard of, been instructed to, or even thought about not seating a UM near a man. Based on time constraints and load factors alone it wouldn't be really feasible.

Quoting Halophila (Reply 2):
Definitely true



Quoting 6YJJK (Reply 1):
I've heard of this before, though never experienced it.

It's hear-say and myth. If there's another industry individual whose company actually has this policy, I would love to hear from them.
 
nzrich
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:15 am

I know of quite a few airlines that will not allow UM's to be seat next to male passengers ..NZ QF are just two .. At NZ we have a row in which we usually save till last as its for UM's if there are any ..Its easy to do if there are policies in place ..
"Pride of the pacific"
 
rwy04lga
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:42 am

Quoting 6YJJK (Reply 1):
And if you're going to move me, in front of a plane-load of people, so the child can sit alone, you'd damn well better be upgrading me (and my penis) to F.

I nearly fell out of my chair laughing!

 rotfl 
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
6yjjk
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:59 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 6):

The explanation is that you simply cannot expect a child to understand the fact that only a few men they will ever encounter are a real danger, and they cant be expected to tell the difference. Its just easier for the child to tell them "avoid all strange men".

Except it's not just men. I'm quite sure one doesn't need a penis to molest a child.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 6):

And both are far more likely to be related or well known to the child than strangers.

Which is just another reason why the whole thing is ludicrous.

Most adults "like" other adults, and some are rapists! Perhaps we should all be in cubicles on the flight, just in case?
 
workflyer
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:33 am

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 17):
I know of quite a few airlines that will not allow UM's to be seat next to male passengers ..NZ QF are just two .. At NZ we have a row in which we usually save till last as its for UM's if there are any ..Its easy to do if there are policies in place

The thing about NZ keeping that row free for UMs is that with online checkin quite often that row shows as available. If it does I try to bag a seat in it. I have not been asked to move yet, however I time my flights to avoid the usual UM rush (last thing Friday, first thing Monday)

I know however that NZ will shift men if they are seated next to a UM. Like to see what would happen if it ws a full flight though.
 
bloodyrascal
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:52 am

I have been travelling for years by myself and i have never had any problems. Why not obey the simple rule everyone was pretty much taught while growing up never speak to strangers. And even if right they check up on the unacompanieds quite freequently anyway.

Quoting 6YJJK (Reply 19):
Most adults "like" other adults, and some are rapists! Perhaps we should all be in cubicles on the flight, just in case?

But honestly people are sick though and they need to be locked up how in the world can you go around raping little children and get pleasure out of it
 
dispatcher
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:13 am

Years ago there was never a policy at Great Lakes, then again, every seat was an aisle and a window.. I was always just happy to see the guardian show up to pick up the kid! Sat alone with one in the terminal for over an hour one night waiting for somebody to show up and claim them. Pretty sad.
 
deltadc9
Topic Author
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:02 pm

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 17):
I know of quite a few airlines that will not allow UM's to be seat next to male passengers ..NZ QF are just two .. At NZ we have a row in which we usually save till last as its for UM's if there are any ..Its easy to do if there are policies in place ..

Apparently that is what Delta did when I was a kid. I dont remember ever sitting next to anyone, and I was always in the first row of coach. It just never occurred to me it might have been some kind of airline policy.

I just remember those flight attendants watching me like a hawk, escorting me up and down the jetway to and from my parents, and even having the Captain come back and say hello and taking me to the flight deck.

I hope this level of service has not declined too much, obviously the flight deck thing is out.....

Quoting 6YJJK (Reply 19):
Perhaps we should all be in cubicles on the flight, just in case?

Hey, dont shoot the messenger!
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
OHLHD
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Thread starter):
Then, while explaining the logic behind that they said most airlines have a policy tto seat a child flying alone only next to a woman.

It this true?

Yes, I don't know for all airlines but I some have this procedure at least. I can confirm QR and OS.

When I was travelling as an UM I sat next to a sect - leader. That was damn boring because he was talking about Jesus etc etc. I asked him ( at the age of 9) to shut up and got applause by the people behind me. Big grin
 
AF2323
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:18 pm

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 24):
When I was travelling as an UM I sat next to a sect - leader. That was damn boring because he was talking about Jesus etc etc. I asked him ( at the age of 9) to shut up and got applause by the people behind me.

 bigthumbsup 
 
flashflyguy
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:47 pm

Pre 9/11 my nephew flew as a UM quite a lot, visiting grandma for school holidays 4 times a year and the occasional extra trips for weekends during the year. On the school holiday flights all the UM's were usually seated together if there were a group of them on the flight. At other times he was sitting in a row by himself or next to women, I can't recall him ever saying he was sitting next to men. One flight he was seated amongst a deadheading international crew for another airline. Of course being well before 9/11, every flight he got a visit to the cockpit and a lot of the FA's at the airline knew him as well. He got a little bored of the cockpit visits, except one night the plane pulled into the terminal, and we could see him sitting in the cockpit.....the little bugger had scored the jump seat for the landing!!! Best flight ever he reckons.

Thanks ANSETT, you guys were the best and you all are still missed.  bigthumbsup 
 
qqflyboy
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:48 am

It is not policy at my airline per se, however, I know many flight attendants will move UMs if possible to empty seats near the flight attendants or a seat next to a woman. The idea frustrates me that men can't be trusted with children, however, it's all about liability and seating the child next to a woman is where less liability lies.

Having said that, try moving 25 UMs on a full A300 from STI to JFK. Not happening. (That is my record, by the way, for number of UMs on one flight. My previous record was 17 SDQ-JFK.)
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
deltadc9
Topic Author
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:14 am

Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 27):
Having said that, try moving 25 UMs on a full A300 from STI to JFK. Not happening. (That is my record, by the way, for number of UMs on one flight. My previous record was 17 SDQ-JFK.)

Holy crap!

This is exactly why I tell people who think being a Flight Attendant is a cush job they are full of it. After dating one for a couple years it was very obvious it is anything but easy.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
flyabunch
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:42 am

As a middle-aged (god, I hate that word) male, I guess I fit the negative profile many seem to be mentioning here. I travel over 100 flights per year and I have had UM's put next to me on numerous occasions over the years. I have noticed that FA's will usually take a look a few times to make sure all is well and then relax.

It may be the policy of individual airlines to avoid putting UM's next to men but I have not seen it in my experience...maybe I just look too trustworthy!  Yeah sure

Mike
 
XJetflyer
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:30 am

When I first read this I was getting pissed. Then the good natured side of me came out. Maybe the airlines are protecting the men from possible false claims.  Confused

There are evil women out there also. Bottom line, it would be hard for me to put my child on a flight by themselves anyway.

The airline has do what they have to do to protect the child. Good for them. If I did see a man messing with a kid, let's just say that would be the last time!
 
zchannel
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:34 am

I remember a flight I took on QX from LAX to RNO a couple years back. There was a UM, female, sitting on the aisle seat behind and opposite me (on a Q400). The girl was probably no more than thirteen, and a man sitting across from her in the same row (directly behind me) took a keen interest in her right away. The tone of their conversation seemed harmless enough, but it turned weird after awhile (he began telling her how pretty she was, and how she looked much older for age and other things I wouldn't deem appropriate to say to a little girl). I shrugged it off, but a female co-worker I was travelling with evidently had been eavesdropping as well and had noticed the peculiar course their dialogue took. She went so far to to tell me she was going listen to their conversation for the duration of the flight to make sure the man didn't go too far, just in case. I didn't alert the flight attendant because the man never got perverse with the girl and she didn't behave like she felt threatened but I didn't get a good vibe from him. For all I know he could have just been acting friendly towards her, but it just felt creepy...

As a man, I myself would prefer my child sit next to a woman if I had to ship him or her somewhere unaccompanied, but that is just me...
ZChannel: Member FDIC
 
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OA260
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:44 am

I flew OA from LHR to ATH 3 times a year when I was a kid to see family and always as a UM . Most of the time it was the school hols so always had a few other UM's with me and we all sat together at the 1st few rows of Y class. Normally the row behind the exit row seats. The crew checked on us for the whole flight. Only on a few flights when there were no other UM's did I get seated in the last row of J class with no one beside me. I guess it was the last row so as not to annoy any full fare J class passengers. Not that I was making a noise or anything. I was far to busy just enjoying every minute on the A300!!!

I do feel that these days you have to be so careful and I would think it wiser for all UM's to be seated together and if there was only 1 UM . I would think it best to be seated next to a women or another family with kids. I know it sounds stero typing but you just dont know these days and its better to be safe than sorry.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:46 am

This was actually a requirement from one of our customers - define an advanced seat assignment business rule to prevent UMNR's from being sat next to male passengers travelling alone. I don't know if it's been implemented yet, but it's certainly going to be one of the rules available to airlines. Another carrier from an Islamic country has requested the possibility to define rules that women should not be seated next to male passengers not booked in the same PNR. Don't know if we'll be able to do that one, but it's interesting.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
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N328KF
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:51 am

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 4):
Quite timely. The WSJ had an article on men as predators last week. They spoke about the very flight issue. Interestingly, while men are more likely to be child abusers, abused children that die, are more likely to be killed by women.

The WSJ article was excellent, and I identified with the men in the stories. One was a doctor in an airport who was afraid to help a sick child, and another was a school bus driver who had the kids from his bus over for a Halloween party. Then he got a divorce and he was suddenly the "evil creepy guy" who parents didn't want to have anything to do with. There were some other stories too, and all of the guys were just really nice guys whose only crime was that they were XY and not XX.
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
-Donny Miller
 
deltadc9
Topic Author
Posts: 2811
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:02 am

Quoting XJETFlyer (Reply 30):
When I first read this I was getting pissed. Then the good natured side of me came out. Maybe the airlines are protecting the men from possible false claims.

I think that may just be an unintended benifit.....
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
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aloha73g
Posts: 1945
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:14 am

I don't think its a policy at HA, but during F/A training we were told to avoid seating UMs next to males travelling alone.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
ltbewr
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RE: Children Flying Alone Only Seated Near Women?

Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:46 am

I have sometimes seen UM's put with families with children or older (grandparent) couples. Some single women may not be a good place to put UM's with as may be business persons, don't want the responsibility or not particularly good with children. It is a sexist assumption that all women are better to be with a UM than any men.

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