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Flying-Tiger
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Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:19 am

Appears that Lufthansa is in full expansion mode at the moment:

- today it was announced that Lufthansa Technik is going to invest € 50 million into expanding their engine maintenance facilities at Hamburg airport, increasing their capacity from 320 to 400 engines per year http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...ding%20Hamburg%20Engine%20Capacity

- just yesterday they announced the new cargo joint venture with DHL, starting up at Leipzig Airport with 11 leased B777-200LRF

- two days ago they announced a 41 frame strong Airbus order (A319/320/321/330s)

- today the new winter schedule was released, featuring a couple of new routes:
=> Frankfurt-Orlando
=> Frankfurt-Lahore-Karachi
=> Frankfurt-Bordeaux
=> Frankfurt-Buenos Aires (goes non-stop)
=> Frankfurt-Newark
=> Frankfurt-Wroclaw
=> Munich-Sibiu
=> Berlin-London City

From what I´ve heard there have at least one capacity increase as well:
=> Dusseldorf-Newcastle to 2x daily

Seems that they have decided that the No 1 spot in Europe belongs to them...
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A343/346, A359, A380,AT4,AT7,B712, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9,B742/4,B752/3, B762/763,B772/77W,CR2/7/9/K,ER3/4,E70/75/90/95, F50/70/100,M11,L15,SF3,S20, AR8/1, 142/143,... 330.860 miles and counting.
 
LHUSA
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:25 am

Just wait for Summer 2008. Those announcements be sehr interessant! Anyway, thanks for the update. Lots of good stuff going on at LH!
 
EFHK
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:29 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Seems that they have decided that the No 1 spot in Europe belongs to them...

With LH acquiring and cooperating with carriers such as AP, OU, JP, LX and BD this certainly seems true. They're the absolutely strongest player in the Middle-Europe market.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
- two days ago they announced a 41 frame strong Airbus order (A319/320/321/330s)

..just to make sure, some of those are for LX also.... Wink

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
=> Frankfurt-Lahore-Karachi

..its going to be nice to see LH in Pakistan again  thumbsup , I remember flying ORD-FRA-KHI on LH's B742's back in the 1980's... Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
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LTU932
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:34 am

What equipment will they send on the FRA-EZE route? 747 or A346?
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
dia77
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:36 am

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 1):
Just wait for Summer 2008. Those announcements be sehr interessant! Anyway, thanks for the update. Lots of good stuff going on at LH!

Can you give us any hints?  Smile Any chance that DEN will see the 744 again?
 
JoKeR
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:42 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Seems that they have decided that the No 1 spot in Europe belongs to them...

Yep! Now officially the largest foreign airline in Serbia... good for LH!
 
earlynff
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:22 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 4):
What equipment will they send on the FRA-EZE route? 747 or A346?

will be B744 again. They learned the lesson from the nonstop A346 ops a couple of years ago.
Most critical thing was crew duty time limitation.
 
upperdeckfan
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:12 am

Quoting EarlyNFF (Reply 7):
will be B744 again. They learned the lesson from the nonstop A346 ops a couple of years ago.

Could you elaborate on the lesson learmed so a newcomer can know what happened?
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
752, 722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,
M83, M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,
333, 343, 346,359,388,L1011,CR2,
CR7, CR9,CRK, E175,E190,ATR42,
DSH8, CS1,CS3
 
earlynff
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:14 am

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 8):
Could you elaborate on the lesson learmed

flighttime FRA-EZE is around 13:30 on B744, half an hour longer for A346. Even with very little delay they where jeopardizing max. crew duty times. And delays on that flight where not unusual: with max TOW, load was restricted, so last minute changes, reloading/offloading = delays
 
yvr1968
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:19 am

Hopefully they will restart YVR-MUC which they started/stopped a few years ago.

They can go head to head with LTU if they re-launch that route.
 
OHLHD
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:54 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
- two days ago they announced a 41 frame strong Airbus order (A319/320/321/330s)

2 A320 and the 333´s go to LX.  Smile

Very good to see LH playing finally the card. They are very very strong now and I do hope they will fly to GIG as well soon!  Smile
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:00 am

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 1):
Those announcements be sehr interessant! Anyway, thanks for the update

FRA-MSY on A333 thrice weekly. Come on, you can spill the beans to an eight year a.net veteran.  Wink
 
earlynff
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:25 am

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 11):
I do hope they will fly to GIG

Why not? They soon have the GRU B744 standing around at GRU during daytime, so they could extend it to GIG again.
That´s what was done at the time when A346 went nonstop EZE.
 
OHLHD
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:27 am

Quoting EarlyNFF (Reply 13):
Why not? They soon have the GRU B744 standing around at GRU during daytime, so they could extend it to GIG again.
That´s what was done at the time when A346 went nonstop EZE.


 crossfingers  I hope it will happen!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:52 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 12):
FRA-MSY on A333 thrice weekly.

I'm there! ...and I have no love for the Star Alliance at all, but still would be all about that.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
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SANFan
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:57 am

And there have been several threads right here on A.net in the last few weeks concerning hopes, rumors, and, in at least one case, disclosures of discussions involving LH and the cities of Seattle, San Diego and Phoenix. I doubt that all 3 cities could be started next year but I would bet at least one will see new LH service by next summer... (And I'm sure there are other U.S. cities as well that are on THE LIST!)

As LH has proven with their successful PDX service, they are willing and able to think outside the box and provide their service to secondary markets that are generally laughed at by most major carriers. I'm not implying that LH is running a charity operation, nor am I ignorant of the fact that incentives play a big part in starting such routes, but at least LH sees potential in places other than NYC, ORD, LAX, etc.

I do hope LH continues to grow and prosper and that US expansion is a big of it.

bb
 
nycaross
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:20 pm

I would bet LH resumes PHX as it is a big hub for Star Alliance carrier US which could feed into PHX-FRA flights.
 
yegbey01
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:05 am

My bet is YEG....Spring for 2008 with a thrice weekly going up to 4 during th summer and then back to three in the fall/winter...SHould do extremely well
 
adicool
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:01 am

I really hope that LH will start expanding in Latin American.They have so many destinations now in the US. I am not saying they should stop introducing new routes in North America, especially Canada seems really interesting (seriously, there should be some other trans-atlantic service from Halifax than just LHR with AC and BA and the seasonal Halifax-KEF with with FI!).
Like already stated here, maybe, now that they serve EZE non-stop, there is a chance that FRA and MUC service to GRU will be expanded to GIG, but actually LH should really consider flying there non stop as do other carriers like TP, AF, RG, JJ and IB...
So, my bet is, that there future expansion will rather not be in the US, but more likly in Latin America, with a re-introduction of direct services to BOG, LIM, maybe UIO and GIG. Maybe LH even considers more destinations in Mexico, like Gudalajara, Monterrey or Cancun. I think LH could do very well on thernLatinrnAmericanrnmarket despite the fact that it is already well served. But LH have arngreat network in East Europe, Middle East andrnFar East,rnsomethingrnthe other major carriers in Latin America arernnot able to offer, allowing there pax great ways of transit...just lookrnat IBsrnnetwork!rnTheyrnare barley serving anything in East Europe and also AFrnand KLrndornnot have such a strong presence in those regions.
Hopefully LHrnwillrncome back to this continent...and maybe, in a farrnfarrnfuture,rnthere would be twice weekly FRA-EZE-MVD service...
Oh, and speaking of expansion, the Star Alliance (hence LH!) are also considering a number of new members (Taca, Turkish Airways, JJ, Avianca)...

[Edited 2007-09-22 19:04:57]
 
airevents
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:23 am

@ adicool

Maybe take some time and get the spelling done properly. It is quite exhausting to read your reply....
 
Viscount724
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
today the new winter schedule was released, featuring a couple of new routes:
=> Frankfurt-Orlando
=> Frankfurt-Lahore-Karachi
=> Frankfurt-Bordeaux
=> Frankfurt-Buenos Aires (goes non-stop)
=> Frankfurt-Newark
=> Frankfurt-Wroclaw
=> Munich-Sibiu
=> Berlin-London City

FRA-EWR is not a new route. They currently have 2 daily nonstops with a 744 and 343. They're actually cutting capacity significantly on that route by replacing the 744 with an all-business class Privatair BBJ (737-700) with 44 seats. That is what the LH press release is referring to re the FRA-EWR changes. The Privatair BBJ currently operates MUC-EWR but that flight is being upgraded to a 343.

The LH press release re the winter changes:
http://konzern.lufthansa.com/en/html...en/app/show/en/2007/09/735/HOM&s=0
 
LH506
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:29 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Appears that Lufthansa is in full expansion mode at the moment:

Ok, so this is my ultimate 2008 guess for LHs expansion assuming that there will be no recession, SARS, 9/11 etc.

1. Purchase of either BD or IB and/or acquisition of a minority share in Air One.
2. New longhaul flights during 2008:
HAM-EWR with Private Air 6 weekly (summer 08)
HAM-ORD with Private Air 5 weekly (summer 08)
FRA-BOG-LIM 4 weekly (as soon as TACA codeshare signed)
FRA-GRU-GIG daily (winter 08)
MUC-MEX (4 weekly, summer 08)
FRA-PHX (daily summer 08)
FRA-Amritsar 3 weekly (if Bilateral is changed)
FRA-CCU going daily (if Bilateral is changed)
MUC-BLR 5 weekly (if Bilateral is changed)
and maybe some frequency increases to China, the MUC-ICN run or a suprise like Luanda, TPE, DAM or TAS.
NOT FLOWN: 707 736 77L 788 78J 300B2 300B4 345 359 35J RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
RedEye
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:39 am

How likely is IAH-MUC?
 
LHboyatDTW
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:39 pm

Quoting Redeye (Reply 23):
How likely is IAH-MUC?

I could see some potential in it.

Does anyone agree with me that LH can make a killing on a MUC flight out of DTW? Even a 5x weekly flight would work.
The air in the clouds is very pure and fine, bracing and delicious because it's the same the angels breathe.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:27 pm

Quoting LH506 (Reply 22):
HAM-EWR with Private Air 6 weekly (summer 08)
HAM-ORD with Private Air 5 weekly (summer 08)

While HAM-EWR is already served by CO with a 757, I don't know if there's enough business class demand to warrant a Privatair BBJ on the route, not to mention that EK also serves NYC from HAM (although it's JFK). I also have my doubt about HAM-ORD being profitable at all if it was to happen.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:25 pm

Quoting Adicool (Reply 19):
So, my bet is, that there future expansion will rather not be in the US, but more likly in Latin America, with a re-introduction of direct services to BOG, LIM, maybe UIO and GIG.

no way, i think there will be some significant expansion on the north atlantic next year. considering the recurring rumors on other thread (about LH serving YYC or SEA) i think both are very likely destinations.

Quoting Adicool (Reply 19):
Oh, and speaking of expansion, the Star Alliance (hence LH!) are also considering a number of new members (Taca, Turkish Airways, JJ, Avianca)...

AV? the first i here about that. TK will join Star rather soon (isn't that one official, yet) and i think the other two Latin carriers will do so, too, if their partnership with LH pans out they way LH want it to be.

Quoting Redeye (Reply 23):
How likely is IAH-MUC?

very unlikely. IAH is an oil destination, which makes it more likely a second FRA-IAH will mature earlier than a MUC-IAH.
but perhaps a MUC-DFW? lots of hi-tech and pharma business around the DFW area, wouldn't that be nice fit?

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 24):
Does anyone agree with me that LH can make a killing on a MUC flight out of DTW? Even a 5x weekly flight would work.

if it was able to make a killing, how come LH chose to start 2nd flight from FRA? i would have thought so, too, that MUC-DTW could be a possibility, but there too it seems that FRA is the more suitable hub.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 22):
MUC-MEX (4 weekly, summer 08)
FRA-PHX (daily summer 08)

those two are routes that very likely are 'no-brainers', i think it's just a matter of time before we see those services, I have my doubts, thought, that'll be next year.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
LHSTR
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:50 pm

LH will get 7 longhaul aircraft next year (4x 346 and 3x333)
3 of those are already planned for the new services from DUS. The three 333s free up 343s and they go to DUS.

This means there are 4 more longhaul aircraft to use in 2008.
 
LH506
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting LHSTR (Reply 27):
LH will get 7 longhaul aircraft next year (4x 346 and 3x333)
3 of those are already planned for the new services from DUS. The three 333s free up 343s and they go to DUS.

This means there are 4 more longhaul aircraft to use in 2008.

Actually they will receive 5 A333s and 3 A346s before summer 08. I do not know how many more A300s will be converted (I think 4 are already flying longhaul). These will free up more a/c for expansion. 3 are used from DUS, wich leaves a minimum of 5 for expansion.
NOT FLOWN: 707 736 77L 788 78J 300B2 300B4 345 359 35J RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
LHUSA
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:23 am

I believe also the 3 PrivatAir aircraft will remain with LH. One will be flying FRA-EWR, but where will the others go? I've heard some rumors about some interesting new markets that LH might try with them. I wonder when the announcements would have to be made by considering that the A343s take over in DUS May 1st.
 
adicool
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:26 am

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 29):
but where will the others go? I've heard some rumors about some interesting new markets that LH might try with them.

what exactly do you mean? Do you have any information about potential new LH destinations? I also wonder where LX will send there new ac.
 
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BA744PHX
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:56 am

LHUSA, when will LH announce their 2008 summer schedule and new routes?

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 1):
 
LXA340
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:34 am

Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 31):
LHUSA, when will LH announce their 2008 summer schedule and new routes?

One new route for the 2008 summer schedule will be flights from MUC to TLV, mostlikely operated on A32S don't know if those flighs will be operated daily at the begining. Maybe LHUSA knows more about it.
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:36 am

there's no set date when there will be announcements. things develop, and from time to time there will be official news... but unfortunately no deadline you can look forward to...
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
lh600
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:20 am

What about MUC-THR??
 
LH121GLA
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:57 am

I wish they would come back to GLA ... twice daily FRA & MUC will do nicely, please!  pray 
 
B752OS
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:50 pm

It would be nice to see LH run MUC-BOS year round.
 
LHSTR
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:52 pm

Quoting LH600 (Reply 34):
What about MUC-THR??

This will not happen.
Since most, if not all, German and European banks moved out of Iran, business will be down eventually.
 
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BA744PHX
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:55 pm

If PHX is announced for next year what city would it be from? FRA? MUC? also which aircraft would most likely be used?
 
stylo777
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:53 pm

Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 38):
f PHX is announced for next year what city would it be from? FRA? MUC? also which aircraft would most likely be used?

343 from FRA

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 29):
I believe also the 3 PrivatAir aircraft will remain with LH. One will be flying FRA-EWR, but where will the others go? I

DUS-ORD
ZRH-EWR

afaik  Smile
 
LH506
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 9:48 am

RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:59 pm

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 39):
DUS-ORD

No way, since LH will use a 343 as of May 1st.
NOT FLOWN: 707 736 77L 788 78J 300B2 300B4 345 359 35J RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
gkirk
Posts: 23453
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:05 pm

Dusseldorf-Newquay, 1 x weekly CRJ operating between 28h June and 30th August  Smile
Flight operates on saturdays.
LH4888/9
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
HUYfan
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:39 pm

MUC-DTW is more likely with NW when they get their 787s. LH flies twice daily from FRA to DTW but this is supported by the motor industry.

Regards

Mike
 
stylo777
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:53 pm

Quoting LH506 (Reply 40):
No way, since LH will use a 343 as of May 1st.

ok seems logical but why are the A319's still loaded in Amadeus?
 
SiouxATC
Posts: 298
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:18 pm

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 39):
343 from FRA

dont be to sure about that. I will give you the 343, but its not a done deal that FRA will get this one....
 
adicool
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:38 am

RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:06 am

I think LH will try to expand their service from MUC by adding more and more destinations that they can't introduce at FRA due to capacity problems. I think MUC will become more and more important for LH, especially with the additional terminal and the possible trans-rapid link to MUC down town. I definitely see LH introduce MUC-TLV (the Jewish community in Munich is really big and they just inaugurated the new synagogue!).
I think either LH or more likely LX should think about expanding their network in Africa. Compared to AF and SN they only serve few destinations (i know, those carriers have a special interested in Africa due to colonial ties).

[Edited 2007-09-24 17:07:20]
 
LH506
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 9:48 am

RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:29 am

Quoting Adicool (Reply 45):
I think either LH or more likely LX should think about expanding their network in Africa. Compared to AF and SN they only serve few destinations (i know, those carriers have a special interested in Africa due to colonial ties).

Maye DKR after the participation in DE is sold?? And then there are always the LAD, WDH rumours out.

Which *A carries fly currently to these destinations?
NOT FLOWN: 707 736 77L 788 78J 300B2 300B4 345 359 35J RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
flyb
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:58 am

Quoting Yegbey01 (Reply 18):
My bet is YEG....Spring for 2008 with a thrice weekly going up to 4 during th summer and then back to three in the fall/winter...SHould do extremely well

Hmmm and maybe a Lot 1x weekly to waw to compliment....
 
Humberside
Posts: 3240
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:44 am

RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:57 am

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 39):
Quoting LHUSA (Reply 29):
I believe also the 3 PrivatAir aircraft will remain with LH. One will be flying FRA-EWR, but where will the others go? I

DUS-ORD
ZRH-EWR

As LH506 said DUS-ORD becomes A340. LX already use Privatair on ZRH-EWR, so unless that route is going twice daily or replacing the existing aircraft they wont be using the aircraft there
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
LXA340
Posts: 1187
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RE: Lufthansa In Full Expansion Mode

Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:41 am

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 29):
I've heard some rumors about some interesting new markets that LH might try with them.

The middle east could be quite luctative for the BBJ's I gues?

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Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos