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LAXintl
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DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:15 pm

Birds are here to stay a bit longer...

Quote:
DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA
09/24/2007

While the utilization and stage-lengths of Northwest's venerable DC-9 fleet has steadily decreased, "having a 100-seat airplane will always be an important piece of the Northwest fleet structure," airline CEO Doug Steenland believes.

Northwest will eventually replace the DC-9s but for now the aircraft are still an "important piece of our fleet," Steenland said at a Wings Club event in New York.

Given high and increasingly volatile fuel prices, the continuing reliance on the DC-9 is something of an anomaly, especially since Northwest has embarked on a fleet renewal plan that will see it adding more fuel efficient aircraft -- Airbus A330s, Boeing 787s, Embraer 175s and Bombardier CRJ-900s -- into the fleet.

But "because our DC-9 fleet is fully paid for, no promissory notes, no ownership costs, it is our variant piece of capacity," Steenland noted. Northwest is in a better position than other airlines, as it can "flex up...or flex down if fuel prices continue to go higher" and "park a DC-9 here or there and not continue to have to pay the overhead and ownership costs that come with that aircraft."

Steenland said Northwest has had discussions with both Bombardier and Embraer on potential 100-seat replacements but there is no timetable for a decision.



Full strory: (subscription required)
http://www.aviationweek.com/publicat...%22+Role+For+NWA%2C+Steenland+Says
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TSS
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:44 pm

Steenland said "Northwest has had discussions with both Bombardier and Embraer on potential 100-seat replacements but there is no timetable for a decision".

Hmmm...
Could NW be a possible launch customer for the CSeries? Since it's main design goal was/is to be a direct replacement for the aging but much-loved DC-9/MD-80/MD-90 fleets, it would seem to be a perfect fit.

Of course, now there's the Sukhoi SuperJet to consider as well...
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CitrusCritter
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:19 am

Why couldn't NW have just done us all a favor and ordered the 717 to replace the DC-9s?  Sad Same with DL, who are now discovering a need for a 100-120 seater. And AA to replace their Fokkers. Arrgh! Poor 717  Sad
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Lexy
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting TSS (Reply 1):
Could NW be a possible launch customer for the CSeries?

Not if they already own the E175's. That would be shooting yourself in the foot as far as relationships with Embraer is concerned. How stupid could you be?
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jetjack74
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:21 am

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
But "because our DC-9 fleet is fully paid for, no promissory notes, no ownership costs, it is our variant piece of capacity," Steenland noted. Northwest is in a better position than other airlines, as it can "flex up...or flex down if fuel prices continue to go higher" and "park a DC-9 here or there and not continue to have to pay the overhead and ownership costs that come with that aircraft."

Well, when delays start to stack up because of continued mechanicals, the anomoly will wear off.
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positiverate
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:30 am

Quoting TSS (Reply 1):
Of course, now there's the Sukhoi SuperJet to consider as well...

No US based pax carrier will ever purchase a Russian jet.
 
Lexy
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:27 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 5):
No US based pax carrier will ever purchase a Russian jet.

Agreed and not because it's a "Russian Jet" either. Rather it's the matter of "perception" among the public, price, maintenance, etc. Take it for what it's worth of course. Me personally, I would love to see more Russian jet's in the skies here in America. But I seriously doubt we'll see them wearing American carrier's colors anytime in the near future. But like I said, it would be really cool to see none the less.

[Edited 2007-09-22 18:28:04]
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:50 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 2):
Why couldn't NW have just done us all a favor and ordered the 717 to replace the DC-9s? Same with DL, who are now discovering a need for a 100-120 seater. And AA to replace their Fokkers. Arrgh! Poor 717



Proudly from MCO; proud of my hometown airline, AirTran

The 717 would have been a great selling plane if it came out in 1993 or so versus 1999. I could see, DL, AC, CO, NW, maybe KL and SK, AM. They could have sold in excss of 500.
 
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:15 am

The 9 replacements will be operated by mainline correct per the new Pilot Contract?
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burnsie28
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:51 am

Quoting TSS (Reply 1):
Of course, now there's the Sukhoi SuperJet to consider as well...

Won't happen, the fact that russian planes are not percieved well worldwide, and the few that will be sold won't allow for a good stockpile of extra parts not to mention the limited responsibility that the russian aircraft makers take for their own products.

Quoting Lexy (Reply 3):
Not if they already own the E175's. That would be shooting yourself in the foot as far as relationships with Embraer is concerned. How stupid could you be?

Well until Embraer comes out with a 100-120 aircraft with first class included then who knows.

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 2):
Why couldn't NW have just done us all a favor and ordered the 717 to replace the DC-9s?

Because at the time boeing was not going to offer any different sized 717, limiting it to its current size, and NW wanted much like the DC-9 series -30 (100 seats), -40 (110 seats) and -50 (125 seats)

Quoting Lexy (Reply 6):
Agreed and not because it's a "Russian Jet" either. Rather it's the matter of "perception" among the public, price, maintenance,

Indeed

Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 8):
The 9 replacements will be operated by mainline correct per the new Pilot Contract?

Yes a 77 seater right now will be mainline, I don't think the pilots will allow any lower then 77 seats to be airlink.
 
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:10 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 5):
No US based pax carrier will ever purchase a Russian jet.

Would you have aid that 15 years ago about a Brazilian jet?  wink 
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burnsie28
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:11 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 10):
Why didn't NW order more A319s, A320s, and maybe even order A318s?

Well they just got rid of about 15 total A319's, however they still have 5 A319's and 2 A320's that are going to be delivered next year. Also the A318 had several problems, it cost the same to operate as an A319 but has less seats, its heavy for its size, and finally, the engine and their relation to the forward boarding door were too close that it would cause several problems with many of the jetways in DTW and other stations.


Finally the sound of a DC-9 taking off is the most beautiful thing in the world.
 
bmacleod
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:11 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 10):
Why didn't NW order more A319s, A320s, and maybe even order A318s?

Simple....look at their current balance sheet and their cash-flow status. NW needs more cash to by new jets, that's why their continuing to duct-tape their DC-9s.....   

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 12):
Finally the sound of a DC-9 taking off is the most beautiful thing in the world.

Albiet a noisy sound as well if you still like that roaring sound...

[Edited 2007-09-22 20:14:35]
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flydreamliner
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:13 am

Quoting TSS (Reply 1):
Of course, now there's the Sukhoi SuperJet to consider as well...

Nope. Not in a thousand years. First off its Russian and people will de facto not trust it. Local news stations would do reports on it. It'd require a public relations campaign to convince people it's as safe as a western aircraft in the US. Secondly Sukhoi doesn't have the support network in North America set up to support the aircraft. Third, NW already operates CRJ and E-Jet families, why wouldn't they just buy more of those rather than adding a 3rd type to the fleet?

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 10):
Why didn't NW order more A319s, A320s, and maybe even order A318s? People by MSP are sick of the noise that the DC-9 makes. Even at my house I have to turn up the volume on the TV when a DC-9 screams over my house.

It's not like they couldn't get more A319s and A320s if they wanted them... but they are actually retiring them from the fleet. The A320/319 are not the most durable aircraft over the long term and when the cost of 50k hour checks rolled around, it turned out cheaper to scrap out A319/320s and keep DC-9's flying.

The A318 has pretty unimpressive economics and is an expensive aircraft for how small it is (like 737-600). that's why it's not that popular. Northwest is going to see how their CRJ9 and E175s work out. Whichever of those turns out to be the better aircraft for them, I'd bet we'll see E-195 or CRJ-1000s entering NW's Compass mainline fleet to replace the DC-9s.

Anyhow, I miss the DC-10s howling by, it'll be a sad day when there aren't anymore DC-9s around.
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bmacleod
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:19 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 14):
it turned out cheaper to scrap out A319/320s and keep DC-9's flying.

Scrap a newer plane and replace it with an older one? Where did that idea come from?  crazy 
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falstaff
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 2):
Why couldn't NW have just done us all a favor and ordered the 717 to replace the DC-9s?

That would have been a great replacement. Right plane, wrong time.

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 10):
Even at my house I have to turn up the volume on the TV when a DC-9 screams over my house.

Maybe you should try to get the airport authority to pay to install new glass, A/C and insulation in your home. It worked for my neighborhood near DTW.

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 13):
that's why their continuing to duct-tape their DC-9s.....

I have flown on NW DC9s 13 times this year, in F and Y, and never have I seen duct tape. The flights were uneventful and the aircraft were clean.
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iwok
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 14):
when the cost of 50k hour checks rolled around, it turned out cheaper to scrap out A319/320s and keep DC-9's flying.

That to me is one of the most amazing things about the DC-9. It is outliving aircraft which are a generation younger.

iwok
 
SNCNtry32
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 14):
Nope. Not in a thousand years.

http://www.topix.net/com/nwac/2007/0...est-in-sukhoi-superjet-100-project
http://www.sbac.co.uk/community/cms/...iew/news_item_view.asp?i=15614&t=0

I thought it was mentioned around here that NW was in fact interested.

[Edited 2007-09-22 20:54:58]
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bmacleod
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 16):
I have flown on NW DC9s 13 times this year, in F and Y, and never have I seen duct tape. The flights were uneventful and the aircraft were clean.

Only a joke...sorry for the confusion.   

[Edited 2007-09-22 20:54:41]
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SNCNtry32
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:56 am

And... RRJ (SuperJet 100) Is Not Doing So Bad (by Concentriq Nov 5 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Quote:
But Cojan also says that there is strong interest from several Western operators – notably Air France-KLM and SAS Group, and there has been contact with US carriers including Northwest Airlines. British Airways is also among the airlines to which the project is being presented.
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Thorben
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:00 am

IMO replacing the DC-9s with E-Jets of CRJs should pay off for NW. The acquisition costs may be high, but fuel, spare parts, and maintenance costs should be much lower, so that the advantages should arrive within a few years. But maybe the initial investment is too high.

Anyway, I think a lot of people will miss the DC-9s when they are finally gone.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 14):
Nope. Not in a thousand years. First off its Russian and people will de facto not trust it. Local news stations would do reports on it. It'd require a public relations campaign to convince people it's as safe as a western aircraft in the US.

Probably true, although pretty dumb. I don't see why a 40+ year old American jet is any safer than a brand-new Russian jet with Western technology in the crucial areas.

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 10):
Why didn't NW order more A319s, A320s, and maybe even order A318s? People by MSP are sick of the noise that the DC-9 makes. Even at my house I have to turn up the volume on the TV when a DC-9 screams over my house. banghead

Over the last decades, people living near airports have profited a lot from the improvement of jet noise that new planes have. However, if airlines don't buy those jets, the improvement doesn't work.
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TrijetsRMissed
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:52 am

Glad to see this quote straight from the CEO of NW. Now maybe some of the armchair CEO's at a.net can stop questioning the idea of keeping the DC-9's.

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 13):
Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 12):
Finally the sound of a DC-9 taking off is the most beautiful thing in the world.

Albiet a noisy sound as well if you still like that roaring sound...

The noisy roar is what makes the take-off beautiful.  Wink

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 2):
Why couldn't NW have just done us all a favor and ordered the 717 to replace the DC-9s?

Indeed. On one hand a NW order five years ago would have kept the line going, on the other hand there would probably be hardly any DC-9's left in the skies.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7):
The 717 would have been a great selling plane if it came out in 1993 or so versus 1999. I could see, DL, AC, CO, NW, maybe KL and SK, AM. They could have sold in excss of 500.

If it had made its debut in 1995 as the MD-95 with a few variants as originally planned, I have no doubt it would have been a success.
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isitsafenow
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:50 am

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 23):
The noisy roar is what makes the take-off beautiful. Wink

You should of heard em before the hush kits were installed in the 90's!
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alangirvan
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:37 am

Range has a bit to do with whether a DC-9 or A319 is the better choice for a route. If you have a short trip, where the plane is climbing and descending, and cruising for a short time, will there be time to benefit from the more fuel-efficient aircraft? One Douglas person told me, when comparing MD-80s against 737-300s, that JT8Ds are better for multiple cycles in one day than CFMs.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:54 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 5):

No US based pax carrier will ever purchase a Russian jet.



Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 14):
Nope. Not in a thousand years. First off its Russian and people will de facto not trust it. Local news stations would do reports on it. It'd require a public relations campaign to convince people it's as safe as a western aircraft in the US. Secondly Sukhoi doesn't have the support network in North America set up to support the aircraft.

It will happen, and the RRJ is certainly the most likely to take that title. Yes there may be some publicity issues, but at the end of the day pax barely ever have a clue what they are flying on, a plane is a plane to them and considerable emphasis could be placed upon the project's links and support from Boeing and 25% of the company being Italian owned, to alleviate and dispel any paranoia.

Sukhoi I think have access to one of the best support networks available in North America, it's called Boeing. They are a subcontractor for the RRJ and consultants for the marketing, management, certification and service support once in operation.


Dan Smile
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toltommy
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:37 am

Quoting Lexy (Reply 3):

Not if they already own the E175's.

They ordered the CRJ-900 at the same time. I doubt Embraer really had a big problem with it. They'll compete C servies vs. 195, but will not burn bridges if they lose the bid.

Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 8):
The 9 replacements will be operated by mainline correct per the new Pilot Contract?

Yes, anything with more than 76 seats is mainline.

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 10):
Even at my house I have to turn up the volume on the TV when a DC-9 screams over my house. banghead

Gee, I wonder who was there first? You at that address or the DC9 at MSP? since your profile says you are 13-15, we know the answer.... Blame your parents for moving you into a known flight plan!
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TSS
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:40 am

I just got in from work and was sitting here formulating a reply while reading the posts entered since earlier today, but PlymSpotter said what I was going to say almost word for word.  Smile

Good job, Dan. Big grin
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af773atmsp
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:49 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 27):

I like living under a flight path. All of the planes except the DC-9 aren't noisy. Even when a 747 screams over my house I don't have to turn up the volume on the TV.
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burnsie28
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:01 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 27):
They ordered the CRJ-900 at the same time. I doubt Embraer really had a big problem with it. They'll compete C servies vs. 195, but will not burn bridges if they lose the bid.

The real only reason NW got the CRJ's as well was because they had a huge chunk of change that was in somewhat of a credit for aircraft from Bombardier.
 
cloudy
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:07 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 4):
Well, when delays start to stack up because of continued mechanicals, the anomoly will wear off.

Since they are paid off and it doesn't cost anything to have one just sitting there, I wouldn't be surprised if they kept a few ready in the hanger at the hubs to replace birds on the line when needed. Many are parked anyway.

I heard somewhere that the DC-9's have better dispatch reliability than some newer types Northwest uses, but don't quote me.

Noise is the real killer issue, I would think. Hush-kitting or re-engining are expensive. Sooner or later the number of places they can fly them will go down drastically.
 
jmc1975
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:52 am

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
Quote:
DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA
09/24/2007

Kind of a foreshadowing of things to come, wouldn't you say?  Wink
.......
 
TrijetsRMissed
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 24):
You should of heard em before the hush kits were installed in the 90's!

I remember, same could be said for 727's and 732's.  Smile

Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 25):
If you have a short trip, where the plane is climbing and descending, and cruising for a short time, will there be time to benefit from the more fuel-efficient aircraft?

Unless I am mistaken, I believe the more fuel efficient aircraft benefits from longer flights because most of the gas is saved during the cruise stage.

Quoting Cloudy (Reply 31):
Noise is the real killer issue, I would think. Hush-kitting or re-engining are expensive

But NW already did this in the 90's to the DC-9 fleet, therefore the expense is already covered. Unless noise abatement laws become more restricted, which is possible, the DC-9 will have plenty of airports to fly into.
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747fan
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:24 pm

Quoting Iwok (Reply 17):
That to me is one of the most amazing things about the DC-9. It is outliving aircraft which are a generation younger.

 checkmark  Truly one of the greatest commercial planes every built, as well as one of the most reliable and durable. The same could be said for the DC-8 (some cargo airlines such as UPS and DHL have ones that are nearly 40 years old), even the 747-100 (and likely all subsequent versions), with operators such as UPS still flying them after 37 years.


Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 13):
Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 12):
Finally the sound of a DC-9 taking off is the most beautiful thing in the world.

Albiet a noisy sound as well if you still like that roaring sound...

I can't get enough of the sound of a DC-9, and any other plane powered by a JT8D. They sound absolutely wonderful on takeoff, from their distinctive, high-pitched fan whine to their thunderous exhaust roar, which actually used to be a crackling, thunderous exhaust roar before the days of hushkits. They even sound great when landing, with the high-pitched whine of the compressors/turbines and that thunderous sound when the thrust reversers are deployed. Of course, sitting in the back of a Diesel 9 is unforgettable on takeoff; their awesome spoolup sends chills up my spine, as does the aforementioned fan whine. Nearly everything I said above about the DC-9/JT8D also applies to the JT3D's and 707's/DC-8's (too bad UPS put too quiet, if neat-sounding, CFM's on theirs); one added plus of the JT3D is the ear-splitting "screech" from the compressors on both takeoff and landing. Videos:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK9JPiqxARO&mode=related&search=
NW DC-9 takeoff from inside; awesome spoolup and fan whine!
www.flightlevel350.com/Aircraft_McDo...e_Spanair_Aviation_Video-4609.html
An MD-80 rather than a DC-9, but the same effect (after all, DC-9's have hush kits now and really aren't any louder than MD-80's). Crank up the subwoofers on this one!
Sorry for turning this into an engine sound/video post, which I'm prone to doing - engine noise is my favorite part of spotting! Big grin
I will certainly miss the DC-9 when its retired in about 10 years  Wink from NWA!
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:55 pm

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 10):
Even at my house I have to turn up the volume on the TV when a DC-9 screams over my house.

I'd rather have DC9's flying over my house than the DHC-6's taking off and landing every 15 minutes near me. The 60º diving approaches those Twin Otters make into the skydiving center a mile away makes it sound like my neighborhood is being dive bombed. I swear they're going snap a wing spar or tail one of these days.

Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
sstsomeday
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RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:56 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 14):
The A318 has pretty unimpressive economics and is an expensive aircraft for how small it is (like 737-600). that's why it's not that popular. Northwest is going to see how their CRJ9 and E175s work out. Whichever of those turns out to be the better aircraft for them, I'd bet we'll see E-195 or CRJ-1000s entering NW's Compass mainline fleet to replace the DC-9s.

Although the 318 is apparently more expensive to operate, NW would have to give up the freight capability of a mainline A/C if they went with the Canadian or Brazilians variants. This seems to be the direction many airlines are going. Perhaps freight cartage over the short haul is not proving to be as important as an economical passenger A/C on those stage lengths. What's interesting is that commuter jets were originally compared to the turbo-props they replaced as less fuel efficient (though preferred by passengers), but now they are being compared favorably to the DC-9's they will replace, and to the 318s they seem to be preferred over, as MORE efficient.

Times change...
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flyiguy
Posts: 990
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 2:21 pm

RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:45 pm

I can see NWA purchasing EMB- 190s and 195 with a 2 class configuration to replace the 9's but I only see that if they like the 175 that were purchased for compass...Otherwise I see more 319's and possibily the 318 but I see that as a long shot....
The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
 
skyguyB727
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:45 pm

RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:57 pm

The DC-9s are perfect sized planes for a lot of markets. They may not be the most modern, but they are reliable planes. I still miss the 727 though.
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2372
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:02 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 4):
when delays start to stack up because of continued mechanicals

 checkmark  You know it has to happen.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2372
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:08 pm

Quoting 747fan (Reply 34):
one added plus of the JT3D is the ear-splitting "screech" from the compressors on both takeoff and landing. Videos:

You mean "music" don't you?
I can hear those old Pratts singing right now-------------------!
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
ThePRGuy
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:07 am

RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:09 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 14):
The A320/319 are not the most durable aircraft

Nothing to do with the "durability" of the aircraft.

Northwest own the DC9s. The recently retired A32x series were leased.

Go figure.

Alex
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
greggarious
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:42 pm

RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:53 pm

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 10):
Even at my house I have to turn up the volume on the TV when a DC-9 screams over my house.

Ha ha ha... you say it as if it's a bad thing!  Big grin

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 14):
I'd bet we'll see E-195 or CRJ-1000s entering NW's Compass mainline fleet to replace the DC-9s.

Just to clarify, is Compass regarded as part of the mainline NW fleet, or are they still regarded as a regional (albeit wholly owned) subsidiary? I believe regional pilots/crew get paid less than mainline pilots/crew. If that's the case, is there a chance that Northwest will try to replace the DC-9s with E-190/195s, paint Northwest Airlink on the side, and pay its crews less as a cost-saving measure?
 
Molykote
Posts: 1240
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:21 pm

RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:59 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 12):
Finally the sound of a DC-9 taking off is the most beautiful thing in the world.

 checkmark 

Quoting 747fan (Reply 34):
I can't get enough of the sound of a DC-9, and any other plane powered by a JT8D.

 checkmark 

Quoting 747fan (Reply 34):
They sound absolutely wonderful on takeoff, from their distinctive, high-pitched fan whine to their thunderous exhaust roar,

 checkmark 

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 40):
You mean "music" don't you?

 checkmark 

The sound of a JT8D is positively glorious!

That earth shaking roar sounds like the wrath of God.
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
 
toltommy
Posts: 2741
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:07 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 30):
The real only reason NW got the CRJ's as well was because they had a huge chunk of change that was in somewhat of a credit for aircraft from Bombardier.

Yes, but if NWA had said "lets make a deal", I'm sure they could have saved those deposits to be used towards the C Series. I highly doubt that the current -900 order is the last order NWA will ever place with Bomardier.

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 29):
I like living under a flight path. All of the planes except the DC-9 aren't noisy.

Again, what was there first? Your house, or the airport? Your parents chose to live there. Something tells me that they knew there was an airport nearby. kwitcherwhining....
A300/A310/A319/A320/A321/A332/A333 / 707/712/727/732/733/734/735/738/739/752/753
/762/763/764/772/788/789/DC8/DC9-10/30/40/50/MD81/83/87/88/90/L1011-/250/500/CRJ200/440 /700/900/EMB135/140/145/170/175/190/328Jet/F70/SF3/BE1/J31
 
gilesdavies
Posts: 2331
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:51 pm

RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:26 pm

I think manufacturers should listen to airlines like NWA and AA, and learn exactly what they want...

When both airlines between them have a potential to order 300+ aircraft to replace their MD-80's and DC-9, Im sure a manufacturer would jump at the chance of designing a replacement.

At the end of the day both airlines want an aircraft that meets some some good old fashioned requiements, without all the bells and whistles coming off the production line. I would imagine there wish list is:

Durable easy to maintain.
Seating for 100-120pax
Range of 1500max
Economical

They don't want an aircraft with the weight of the 737NG or A320 family, they also do not require the range of these aircraft.

Maybe Boeing should should wake up and smell the coffee! Instead of them insisting one aircraft fits all (AKA the 737) and being so stuburn, maybe they should dust off the plans of the old 717 and as this airframe design is now over 10 yrs old and see where else they can improve the aircraft. I bet a 717NG could be produced with very low overheads!
 
N801NW
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:56 am

RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:47 pm

Quoting Greggarious (Reply 42):
Just to clarify, is Compass regarded as part of the mainline NW fleet, or are they still regarded as a regional (albeit wholly owned) subsidiary?

Yep, it is a wholly owned regional airline. I believe there is a "flow-up" provision in the NWALPA contract for Compass pilots to be able to go mainline when positions are open.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4514
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:48 pm

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 10):
People by MSP are sick of the noise that the DC-9 makes. Even at my house I have to turn up the volume on the TV when a DC-9 screams over my house

I know hundreds of people and have never heard a single one complain about the DC-9 noise!

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 13):
Simple....look at their current balance sheet and their cash-flow status

OK, I looked and it is just about the best in the industry.

Quoting Greggarious (Reply 42):
If that's the case, is there a chance that Northwest will try to replace the DC-9s with E-190/195s, paint Northwest Airlink on the side, and pay its crews less as a cost-saving measure?

The NWA pilot scope agreement would not allow this. They get to fly all aircraft with more than 76 seats.
 
KarlB737
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:41 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 14):
Northwest is going to see how their CRJ9 and E175s work out. Whichever of those turns out to be the better aircraft for them, I'd bet we'll see E-195 or CRJ-1000s entering NW's Compass mainline fleet to replace the DC-9s.

FlyDreamliner raises a point that might have been lost in the discussion. At this point no one knows how long the E-195 and CRJ-900 will hold up over time. It is common knowledge to everyone here how well the DC-9 series has lasted over the decades. The question of the day will be what replacement aircraft will last and be as reliable.
 
717-200
Posts: 564
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2000 1:29 am

RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 2):
Why couldn't NW have just done us all a favor and ordered the 717 to replace the DC-9s?

Here's a crazy idea, what if NW went and made a hostile takeover play for FL, like FL did for YX so they can get a ready fleet of around 87 717's to replace most of the DC9's. But then again the DOJ would probably get in the way of this idea.
72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
 
flyabr
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:42 am

RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:29 am

Quoting 717-200 (Reply 49):
Here's a crazy idea, what if NW went and made a hostile takeover play for FL, like FL did for YX so they can get a ready fleet of around 87 717's to replace most of the DC9's. But then again the DOJ would probably get in the way of this idea.

that's a crazy idea alright! the only way it'd work is if NW bought out FL and then shutdown a large portion of that airlines operations. don't think the FL folks would be too happy with that!
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5279
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: DC-9s Still Play Crucial Role For NWA

Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:36 am

Quoting Greggarious (Reply 42):
Just to clarify, is Compass regarded as part of the mainline NW fleet, or are they still regarded as a regional (albeit wholly owned) subsidiary?

Its a regional, but Compass is a little odd, for instance of the ground handlers contracts in cities, the Compass flights are considered "mainline" as NW in hub cities handles compass flights.

Quoting Greggarious (Reply 42):
If that's the case, is there a chance that Northwest will try to replace the DC-9s with E-190/195s, paint Northwest Airlink on the side, and pay its crews less as a cost-saving measure?

If NW were to order the E190/195 they would be flown at mainline NW because of their size.

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 44):
Yes, but if NWA had said "lets make a deal", I'm sure they could have saved those deposits to be used towards the C Series. I highly doubt that the current -900 order is the last order NWA will ever place with Bomardier.

At that time the C series was still not available because bombardier was still trying to decide if they were going to offer it. Secondly apparently two of the CR9's have been returned to bombardier, and even bombardier pilots have been flying actual XJ flights to figure out why things keep going wrong with them.

Quoting N801NW (Reply 46):
Yep, it is a wholly owned regional airline. I believe there is a "flow-up" provision in the NWALPA contract for Compass pilots to be able to go mainline when positions are open.

Correct and XJ pilots will also soon have that option. I believe the CP agreement is 16 months at CP and in the left seat.

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