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atrude777
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MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:16 pm


MARION - Great Lakes Airlines plans to begin service from Williamson County Regional Airport to St. Louis on November 4, restarting a service that has not been offered to the region since March 8.

The airline was awarded the Essential Air Service contracts in Marion, Quincy and Decatur after Regions Air - the previous regional airline - discontinued their service to these areas. Customers can begin booking flights on Great Lakes flights from those towns this Sunday, September 23.


http://www.mariondaily.com/articles/2007/09/19/news/news02.txt

Very Cheap Air Fares! 49 dollars one way!!

Now, I can book this at the Great Lakes Website, but not at AA.com

I assume this is a stand alone MWA-STL service now? As I cannot book this at AA.com

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:41 pm

Quoting Atrude777 (Thread starter):
Now, I can book this at the Great Lakes Website, but not at AA.com

I assume this is a stand alone MWA-STL service now? As I cannot book this at AA.com

Most likely not loaded yet. I can't see a lot of point-to-point demand between Marion/Carbondale and St. Louis, a distance of what, 120 miles or so??
 
atrude777
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:44 pm

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 1):
Most likely not loaded yet. I can't see a lot of point-to-point demand between Marion/Carbondale and St. Louis, a distance of what, 120 miles or so??

100 miles  Silly, or a 2 hour drive.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
toltommy
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:09 pm

Depends on if AA entered into a codesharing agreement as demanded by Dick Durbin. If not, it may never be bookable at AA.com.
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elcableguy77
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:33 pm

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 1):
I can't see a lot of point-to-point demand between Marion/Carbondale and St. Louis, a distance of what, 120 miles or so??

Well, it would give folks in the area another gateway besides MDW. And that's a two-hour drive on a good day. On a busy day, it's more like three, if you went with either I-64 to I-70 or I-64 to the Metrolink Station near BLV and rode it into STL.
Goodness knows I'd use it, as my girlfriend lives in nearby Du Quoin. It would be much easier for her to drive to Carbondale to pick me up than picking me up at the Metrolink station like she does now.
Former ZW F/A | "Wisconsin 72A, contact departure, see ya."
 
777fan
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:12 pm

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 3):
Depends on if AA entered into a codesharing agreement as demanded by Dick Durbin.

Ha! Another case of government trying to tell business what to do. Market demand will determine whether or not a codeshare is warranted. Need I point out that Marion is home to one of the largest federal prisons in the country? I suspect that between lawyers and family members' visits, there should be enough pax to make this route work. On the other hand, there doesn't appear to be much commercial traffic in/out of there which suggests that the demand isn't high enough to warrant additional service. From experience, any time the government tries to intervene on behalf of demand, it means that it isn't there to begin with. Don't believe me? Just look at the departures/arrivals (or lack thereof) at BLV.


777fan
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RJNUT
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:40 pm

Quoting 777fan (Reply 5):

Ha! Another case of government trying to tell business what to do. Market demand will determine whether or not a codeshare is warranted. Need

EAS service is never market driven...A code share would only be logical to help to create connectivity for these cities...I am not sure what your point is here, but market demand will determine the succes of the route, but without codeshare ,it is essentailly doomed!
 
777fan
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:41 pm

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 6):
but without codeshare ,it is essentailly doomed!

My point is that Dick Durbin shouldn't "demand" codesharing on the route. If the legacies determine the route is worth codesharing, then they'll offer it. Carriers should not be forced to enter into agreements such as codeshares simply because a Senator or Representative "demands" it.


777fan
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RJNUT
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:11 pm

Quoting 777fan (Reply 7):
Carriers should not be forced to enter into agreements such as codeshares simply because a Senator or Representative "demands" it.

Agreed, but I am assuming these awards went to Great lakes with a certain expectation that a codeshare with AA was in the works... Somehow, someone shouldl have crossed their T's and dotted their I's to make sure that the service awarded was what they thought they were getting.. Is it possible AA is reneging or is it as stated above that the govt made incorrect assumptions? I dont know as i am not that close to the issue!
 
777fan
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:17 pm

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 8):
it possible AA is reneging or is it as stated above that the govt made incorrect assumptions?

It's possible that they were 'guaranteed' a subsidy that would've provided them with enough to at least make the route breakeven. It's also possible that Dick Durbin (not Richard) is lobbying for a legacy to add a codeshare in the hopes of avoiding the State having to subsidize the route. I'm not familiar with the details but I suspect that this is the case. Naturally, he can't "force" AA or anyone for that matter to codeshare and again, if it's not in anyone's interest to do it, they won't.


777fan
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RJNUT
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting 777fan (Reply 9):
Naturally, he can't "force" AA or anyone for that matter to codeshare and again, if it's not in anyone's interest to do it, they won't.

I just feel that code shares are in everybodies best interest,,

AA gets more passengers, with minimal cost
Community/travelers gets connectivity'
Subsidies from the govt are minimized


The only thing a carrier like Great Lakes would not benefit from is the things that cost money, like painting the a/c in partners colors, or service standards set by the partner that result in penalties to Great Lakes for failure to perform!
And maybe its these issues that GL does not want to deal with, so is prefering to go it alone!

Nuff said, for me, on this issue!
 
highliner2
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:40 am

I live in Carbondale, flew the route extensively when it was operated by Regions. For this route to be effective, there needs to be a code share. There are no O&D pax on a route like this. It was all connecting traffic. Lack of a codeshare really limits how useful this route can be. Hopefully AA just hasn't gotten around to loading this route yet. I am glad to see Great Lakes finally get in gear and get going. Regions wasn't great, but Durbin and co. kicked them out seemingly without any plan at all. Great Lakes had just spent the last year or so jerking the State of Illinois around with the intrastate routes, how that instilled any confidence that they could be up and running an even larger operation is beyond me. The previous EAS contract expired in May IIRC, and it's going to be November before we even see a flight. I'm glad to see the service returning, but without a codeshare it's going to be a much tougher sell.
Go Cubs!
 
bdl2stl2pvg
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:46 am

There was prior discussion about Great Lakes past performance with UA and DL and how AA with its almost obsessive branding protection wouldn't allow Great Lakes to be an AA Conx carrier without the a/c properly painted. And as of now there are still a number Great Lakes a/c running abound with the basic UA blue & grey color scheme. Of course if they do repaint them, the white base could allow the aircraft to become generically marked without too much trouble.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting Elcableguy77 (Reply 4):
And that's a two-hour drive on a good day. On a busy day, it's more like three, if you went with either I-64 to I-70 or I-64 to the Metrolink Station near BLV and rode it into STL.

Marion-STL is very rarely more than 2.5 hours (maybe a bit more with 40 under construction and the attendant congestion). But the thing to keep in mind is that it really doesn't matter how long the drive is because if folks need to fly to Marion and there isn't service to MWA, STL is the best option. EVV is probably a similar driving time, but it doesn't have as much air service, and the drive is mostly back roads and relatively unpleasant.

Even without codesharing, it will be nice for passengers to have an option besides driving out to Marion. Folks will probably just interline off of AA (or someone else) regardless of what's on the tail of the ZK aircraft.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
atrude777
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:20 am

It's amazing to see how many locals we have in the area of carbondale, and marion, pretty sweet. We should all get together for spotting at MDH, MWA for some cessna's. JOKING  Silly

Anyhow, as of now 17:16 central time AA.com has not loaded it.

However I do know I have read press releases stating the codeshare would be included.

I must admit, for a stand alone flight, this is pretty darn cheap! 49 one way!

Cubsrule- From carbondale to st. louis city, its about 2 hrs, from marion (which is a near 25 min drive AWAY from Carbondale) is around 2 hrs to 20-30 minutes drive.

Itd a seperation between the two cities itself.

While I know it cannot be supported I'd prefer Eagle RJ MWA-ORD or DFW. Makes connections MUCH easier.

Still waiting for the code share to take effect, I have got some miles to use, and would be so much easier and more effective flying out of MWA, versus STL.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
highliner2
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:31 am

MWA-ORD would be a dream come true since I usually fly MWA-STL-ORD when I go home. From what I hear the MWA-MDW service seems to be doing quite well. But the difference between a Beech 1900D and a ERJ135 is still quite a bit. BUT...the MWA-STL route seemed to be doing better and better before Regions tanked. I'm sure AA monitored where those connections we're going. Maybe someday, heck, Evansville has RJ service so who knows. If AA sees a chance to torpedo the MDW-MWA route, and add lucrative connecting traffic to ORD...eh, it's a longshot I know but maybe some day...word is MWA is looking at building a new terminal and there's been talk in the papers of Allegiant looking at MWA service...
Go Cubs!
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:35 am

Great Lakes and AA have not come to an agreement over the codeshare because of AA's strict policies and its likely it won't happen (for instance, AA does not allow independent yield & revenue management, flights that make 1 stop, and at least 50% of the fleet must be branded in AA). Also, you can not operate independent flts or codeshare under a pro-rate agreement, to other points from a market served by AA as AA connection the midwest regionsair markets will suffer the same fate as COU boardings will plummet, and not because of the lack of AA code, but because of the cost. The "highest" fare add on from MWA, for instance, was $50 roundtrip.. Lakes now requires 2 sep ticket purchases.. 1 to stl, 1 to their destination.

-m

 airplane 
 
atrude777
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:37 am

Quoting Highliner2 (Reply 15):

God knows a new terminal is needed. Looks like a One Room School house from a distance!

I too have heard Allegiant non stop to LAS. However would it cannonbalize the route out of BLV?

Would be sweet to see it!

I too would use the MWA-ORD route a lot if it became a non stop. Makes flying to chicago for the day a LOT easier.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
DFW13L
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:22 am

Just a reminder of a press release early in the year after the RegionsAir service was cancelled.

From an AA press release:

FOR RELEASE: Tuesday, March 20, 2007

AMERICAN AIRLINES WORKING WITH GREAT LAKES AVIATION TO REPLACE AMERICANCONNECTION SERVICE TO CITIES IN ILLINOIS, IOWA AND MISSOURI

FORT WORTH, Texas – American Airlines today issued the following statement regarding AmericanConnection carrier RegionsAir’s flights to nine Midwestern cities:
American Airlines is working with Great Lakes Aviation to reestablish AmericanConnection service between Lambert St. Louis International Airport and Burlington, Iowa; Decatur, Marion, Springfield and Quincy, Ill.; and Fort Leonard Wood, Mo.


So it says Marion is included in the AA Connection service. But I also have an email that suggested they were expecting service to start in April. That tells me there has been a lot of red tape, as mr BDL2STL2PVG said,

Quoting BDL2STL2PVG (Reply 12):
AA with its almost obsessive branding protection wouldn't allow Great Lakes to be an AA Conx carrier without the a/c properly painted

I do remember what AA's scope clause did to Chataqua when they started flying E170s for other carriers. They ended up having to create a separate certificate, which was NOT cheap for them to do! AA is very picky both corporately via branding, and the APA is picky regarding who flies the planes in any airline that has AA flying.

I'm sure there are hurdles they are jumping through, but this new service still does not show up in RES.

Matt
See, I knew American Eagle was first class all along!
 
highliner2
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:30 am

UnitedTristar hit it on the head. The effect on the fare is what will be the most damaging. Not to mention having to use one of the booking sites instead of simply using aa.com. If they can't come to an agreement over a codeshare...

As for Allegiant, I think between Marion, Paducah, Dyersburg, etc., there could be enough traffic for both Belleville and MWA to do alright...
Go Cubs!
 
atrude777
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:38 am

Oh Man....

This will suck if it is indeed a stand alone flight.

Tho, it does make it cheap enough to consider, for parking, and gas driving, it could very well simply be cheaper overall to fly out of MWA, and connect to Southwest, American, etc etc.

I most certainly will be using these flights more to my advantage.

Hopefully it does become a code share! *crosses fingers*

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
atrude777
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:12 am

Still No Code share yet..

However I found out Great Lakes will be operating out of the D Concourse, and will have their own check in counter upstairs at the Main Terminal.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:30 pm

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 14):
Cubsrule- From carbondale to st. louis city, its about 2 hrs, from marion (which is a near 25 min drive AWAY from Carbondale) is around 2 hrs to 20-30 minutes drive.

That sounds about right. MWA-downtown St. Louis is about 115 miles; Carbondale is 15 miles or so further (unless you want to drive back roads...).

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 21):
However I found out Great Lakes will be operating out of the D Concourse,

That means an easy connection onto AA, FL, and F9, and reclearing security to fly on anyone else (assuming 1 ticket). Looks like ZK, at least, is holding out hope of a codeshare (not that there's really anywhere else to put them...).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:44 pm

well, you don't have to reclear security for WN either, unless they changed it since last time I was there in STL. It was 2 years ago though,
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:52 pm

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 23):
well, you don't have to reclear security for WN either, unless they changed it since last time I was there in STL. It was 2 years ago though,

Quite true, but it is one heck of a long walk.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
pilotpip
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:13 pm

It depends on which end of D they're in. If they're down by the three ATS gates and Skyway it will be a shorter walk to E than it will to C. The moving walkways don't make it so bad anyway.

That being said, it's a nice leisurely walk without many people. I do it about twice a shift when I'm sitting airport reserve.  Smile
DMI
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:25 pm

Back in the day, used to fly Air Illinois to STL, MEM, and Chicago. Twin Otters and some sort of twin jet (fokker??) . But that was out of MDH.

Go Dawgs!
 
elmothehobo
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:06 pm

Great Lakes and American, as of now, won't be in a codesharing agreement. American wanted to have the Great Lakes flights branded as Connection flights, Great Lakes doesn't want to paint a subfleet of Beech 1900s in AA colors, which would limit their utilization to flights ex-STL exclusively operated under the AA Connection banners.

Until that is solved, there won't be a connection, probably just interlining. A shame really, but American is very strict about the use its logo and corproate identity, and rightfully so, IMO.

I'd wager that they were sh!ting bricks when Trans States was flying one of the ex US Express ERJs on AA Connection routes last year in US colors.
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:29 pm

too bad they wont be doing service as AA Connex. I was looking forward to seeing a B1900 in AA's livery. Hopefully they can get that ironed out, would be better for connectivity.
 
atrude777
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:34 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 22):

That sounds about right. MWA-downtown St. Louis is about 115 miles; Carbondale is 15 miles or so further (unless you want to drive back roads...).

Indeed, and I will NOT drive backroads  Silly

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 22):
That means an easy connection onto AA, FL, and F9, and reclearing security to fly on anyone else (assuming 1 ticket). Looks like ZK, at least, is holding out hope of a codeshare (not that there's really anywhere else to put them...).

As well as WN, USA3000, Champion Air, and Midwest Express

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 23):
well, you don't have to reclear security for WN either, unless they changed it since last time I was there in STL. It was 2 years ago though,

No need to re clear.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 24):
Quite true, but it is one heck of a long walk.

I did it all the time when I was on breaks working for WN at STL haha

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 26):
Back in the day, used to fly Air Illinois to STL, MEM, and Chicago. Twin Otters and some sort of twin jet (fokker??) . But that was out of MDH.

MDH, now THATS my true Airport!!

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 26):
Go Dawgs!

WOO HOO! SIU Football just won our homecoming game! GO DAWGS FOR SURE!

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
777STL
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:03 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 29):
Indeed, and I will NOT drive backroads

Ehh those backroads aren't bad, they tend to have a lot less cops on them. I'm down in that neck of the woods right now.
PHX based
 
atrude777
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 30):

Ehh those backroads aren't bad, they tend to have a lot less cops on them. I'm down in that neck of the woods right now.

Hehehe I got pulled over on one of those "backroads" Was actually in Pinky, Illinois. (I just don't feel like spelling the whole dag gam word haha)

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
777STL
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:03 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 31):
Was actually in Pinky, Illinois. (I just don't feel like spelling the whole dag gam word haha)

Pinckneyville? (sp?)
PHX based
 
atrude777
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:48 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 32):

Looks right!

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
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TWA757
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:36 am

Quoting Elmothehobo (Reply 27):
I'd wager that they were sh!ting bricks when Trans States was flying one of the ex US Express ERJs on AA Connection routes last year in US colors.

I remember flying STL-BDL on one of those birds, in either October 2005 or April 2006. Some of the passengers were pretty confused  Smile
 
bdl2stl2pvg
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:49 am

Quoting TWA757 (Reply 34):
Quoting Elmothehobo (Reply 27):
I'd wager that they were sh!ting bricks when Trans States was flying one of the ex US Express ERJs on AA Connection routes last year in US colors.

I remember flying STL-BDL on one of those birds, in either October 2005 or April 2006. Some of the passengers were pretty confused

While I didn't fly in the US Express painted a/c I did have a flight STL-CVG on an AAC painted a/c with a flight attendant in a US Express uniform. She explained that she normally flew the US Ex routes but that this was a last minute thing. Also, a little confusing.
 
access-air
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 16):
Great Lakes and AA have not come to an agreement over the codeshare because of AA's strict policies and its likely it won't happen (for instance, AA does not allow independent yield & revenue management, flights that make 1 stop, and at least 50% of the fleet must be branded in AA). Also, you can not operate independent flts or codeshare under a pro-rate agreement, to other points from a market served by AA as AA connection the midwest regionsair markets will suffer the same fate as COU boardings will plummet, and not because of the lack of AA code, but because of the cost. The "highest" fare add on from MWA, for instance, was $50 roundtrip.. Lakes now requires 2 sep ticket purchases.. 1 to stl, 1 to their destination.

And all this crap my freinds is why Commuter and Major Airline codesharing is fraudulant and has killed so many Commuter Airlines. Once you code share you might as well kiss your operation bye bye as the Major controls everything...Oh wait, where did I hear that most recently? Oh I think it was when I was taking face to face with Bill Britt in August!!!

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
access-air
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:56 pm

Quoting Atrude777 (Thread starter):
Now, I can book this at the Great Lakes Website, but not at AA.com

I assume this is a stand alone MWA-STL service now? As I cannot book this at AA.com

Alex,

Pardon me for suggesting this but if you waltz into any travel agency they can ticket you with GLA and AA on the same E-ticket, something that you cannot do when booking on AA.com or booking thru GLA's website alone...
I guess thats one of the beauties of a travel agency, you might have to pay a small ticketing fee, but how much better to have both airlines in the same PNR (Passenger Name Record) so each airline knows of each others flights and thru baggage checks will be easier as well as not having to book two separate tickets and if your plans change have to incur 2 ticket change fees!!!
There are advantages to booking thru a travel agency, that just simply cannot be done thru an airline's website. This example above would be one of them...

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
RJNUT
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RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:10 pm

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 37):

Pardon me for suggesting this but if you waltz into any travel agency they can ticket you with GLA and AA on the same E-ticket, something that you cannot do when booking on AA.com or booking thru GLA's website alone...

In Wspan , GLA does not have E tkt capabilites yet.. What system do you use?

at this point i can only offer joint paper ticket! Certainly that will change!!??
 
rampart
Posts: 1800
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:21 pm

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 26):
Twin Otters and some sort of twin jet (fokker??) .

BAC 111s. Did you actually see them at Carbondale? I never did, thought they were more upstate service, like Springfield.
I think Air Illinois also operated HS 748s out of Carbondale.

-Rampart
 
access-air
Posts: 1577
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 5:30 pm

RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:43 pm

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 38):
In Wspan , GLA does not have E tkt capabilites yet.. What system do you use?

at this point i can only offer joint paper ticket! Certainly that will change!!??

In our travel agancy we use Galileo/Apollo....Even if GLA and AA dont have a reciprocal E-tkt agreement whats so wriong with a paper ticket. If the carriers do not have such an agreement and it defaults to a paper ticket there is usually not extra cost for that paper ticket. Only if the reservation is E-ticket qualified and you want a Paper ticket is there any extra fee invlovled, usually a substancial fee (I liken it more to a paper ticket penalty...LOL.).



Quoting Rampart (Reply 39):
Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 26):
Twin Otters and some sort of twin jet (fokker??) .

BAC 111s. Did you actually see them at Carbondale? I never did, thought they were more upstate service, like Springfield.
I think Air Illinois also operated HS 748s out of Carbondale.

-Rampart

Air Illinois started service way back in the early 1970s and had for along time one HS-748, N748LL that weas based in Carbondale and routinely flew from Carbondale to Springfield and into Meigs. They also had a substantial fleet of Twin Otters and Handley Page 137 Jestreams (not to be confused with BAe Jestream 31s). At leasst two of the HP-137s were Riley converted with P&W PT6A-34s. Those were N7RJ and N11DN. They also had a slew of Garrett 331 powered HP-137s as well...They even at one point in around 1980 leased a couple of Beech 99s. A second HS-748 (by then Bae 748) was added to the fleet. N749LL. The Garrett HP-137s were sold (one sits at Purdue University Airport) and only the two P&W PT6 powered planes were kept. Before they crashed the HS-748 in Pickneyville, Illinois, they had a fleet of 2 748's 2 HP-137s, 6-8 Twin Otters and They even bought a couple of ex- USair BAC One Elevens. N1547 and N1549...When N748LL went down, the FAA swooped in and found record keeping with maintenance not what it should have been and they were grounded. Another interesting point to note is that Air Illinois bought a small commuter airline in and around 1982 called Decatur Commuter that used to fly Navajo Chieftains into ORD, which is how Air Illinois came to fly into Decatur, and this also gave them entrance into operations at OHare..
The mainstays of the Air Illinois cities were Carbondale, Springfield, St. Louis, Cape Girardeau, Paducah, Memphis, Chicago Meigs, Burlington and Quincy. They also flew into Mt Vernon but were replaced by Air Kentucky/Allegheny Commuter. I always wondered by Britt neverr picked up Mt. Vernon.
Air Illinois flew early in their life into Alton, Illinois as well as Centralia, Illinois with thier HS-748s according to a Feb 1974 OAG that I have.
Anyway, yes, Air Illinois did operate their BAC 111s out of Carbondale but, mostly concentrated the BACs into ORD from Evansville, Champaign, Waterloo , Cedar Rapids, Springfield but in such an inconsistant manner from what all my old schedules say, that it was more of a bother to operate them than a help (my opinion). Ironically they were flying in competiton with Britt to/from Evansville both using BACs.
After the crash tho, the BAe 748, N749LL was surplussed as were the HP-137s (I believe) and the Twin Otters re-activated and the BACs....The BAC ended up going to Atlantic Gulf Airlines (Charter company) but the ultimately Orlando based Florida Express got them both.
Its a shame that one accident could do such irreparable damage to a carrier like this but that was back in the days of the FAA's "Swat Teams" that did surprise inspections at various Commuter Airlines or came in like vultures after an accident.. In ways it was good and was a positive thing for some carriers and proved to be the end for others such as Air Illinois.

Please, do not yell at me if these Air Illinois statements are a little out of order...My memory isnt what it used to be..

Cheers, Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
User avatar
TVNWZ
Posts: 2274
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:28 am

RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:54 pm

Quoting Rampart (Reply 39):
BAC 111s. Did you actually see them at Carbondale? I never did, thought they were more upstate service, like Springfield.

Yep. Actually flew it three times to Meigs. Flew the TO's to STL, Paducah and MEM. The Otter's were an experience.
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2844
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:55 pm

Quoting TWA757 (Reply 34):

I remember flying STL-BDL on one of those birds, in either October 2005 or April 2006. Some of the passengers were pretty confused



Quoting BDL2STL2PVG (Reply 35):

While I didn't fly in the US Express painted a/c I did have a flight STL-CVG on an AAC painted a/c with a flight attendant in a US Express uniform. She explained that she normally flew the US Ex routes but that this was a last minute thing. Also, a little confusing.

We have three planes that sit as spares. Two now have a generic scheme and I think one is still in UA paint. Most people would have no idea, especially if they're using a jetway. Most people have no idea what airline they're flying on when it's a regional carrier.

As for the uniforms, I doubt anybody short of an A-nutter would really notice a different uniform as long as they got their drink on time. It's a pain being on reserve because I have to think about which wings to wear. We have TSA wings for AA and UA flights, and these God-Awful US wings for those flights. I just carry both sets with me in the event I end up flying a US trip.
DMI
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14622
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:27 pm

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 42):
We have three planes that sit as spares. Two now have a generic scheme and I think one is still in UA paint.

How many birds does TSA own, and what is the breakdown of paint schemes? I know there are 48 total, but IIRC AA owns 10...?

Any word on whether US* flying ex-PIT will continue? If not, we might have a winner for some of the Missouri and Illinois markets (the economics of an ERJ on a route like MWA-STL are just horrendous, but we know that TSA is willing to do what's necessary to get the AA code).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
mrstl
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:58 am

RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:47 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 43):
Any word on whether US* flying ex-PIT will continue? If not, we might have a winner for some of the Missouri and Illinois markets (the economics of an ERJ on a route like MWA-STL are just horrendous, but we know that TSA is willing to do what's necessary to get the AA code).

Or a morning flight on AA to DEN would be a good start, what gives on this route anyways? Too much competition or lack of planes?

My vote is for reinstatement of :
COS
CLE
CVG
OMA
SDF
IAH
PNS
MCI
 
ruuxxv
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2001 4:39 am

RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:08 pm

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 37):
Pardon me for suggesting this but if you waltz into any travel agency they can ticket you with GLA and AA on the same E-ticket,

I don't believe Great Lakes has any Interline Electronic Ticket agreements.
United and Frontier are handled outside of the scope of such agreements.
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2844
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:51 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 43):

How many birds does TSA own, and what is the breakdown of paint schemes? I know there are 48 total, but IIRC AA owns 10...?

Any word on whether US* flying ex-PIT will continue? If not, we might have a winner for some of the Missouri and Illinois markets (the economics of an ERJ on a route like MWA-STL are just horrendous, but we know that TSA is willing to do what's necessary to get the AA code).

19 in AA scheme, 22 in UA, and 8 in US so 49 total. That's how they're listed in my Jepps. I'm not sure where the generics came from. The US stuff is anybody's guess. Management doesn't tell us squat. We supposedly just got more UA flying with 6 additional aircraft. I really don't think we're getting more aircraft, I think they're coming from the US side. As for the STL-MWA, we started going back to SGF recently and I think we're starting SPI service soon. On the UA side I'm doing a trip starting tomorrow that has flights from ORD to MLI, MKE and SBN. And then there are the MHT-IAD flights. Nothing worse than 20 minute blocks...


Quoting MrSTL (Reply 44):

Or a morning flight on AA to DEN would be a good start, what gives on this route anyways? Too much competition or lack of planes?

My vote is for reinstatement of :
COS
CLE
CVG
OMA
SDF
IAH
PNS
MCI

We're told where to go and our routes change pretty much every month. As for Den, I don't know. UA and Frontier have AM flights. I don't think there's enough there to justify a ton of flights from AA. Maybe they'll add frequency during ski season as they have in the past but I am unsure. I don't think we'd have three aircraft dedicated to being spares if we didn't have the planes.
DMI
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 2158
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:00 am

Quoting MrSTL (Reply 44):
My vote is for reinstatement of :
COS
CLE
CVG
OMA
SDF
IAH
PNS

I would love to see a STL-PNS flight on AA. I remember back when TWA was going to start that route in '01, I was all set to book it but it never materialized when the TWA/AA merger came about.
 
rampart
Posts: 1800
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: MWA-STL Scheduled To Resume Service

Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:55 am

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 40):
Please, do not yell at me if these Air Illinois statements are a little out of order...My memory isnt what it used to be..

Cheers, Access-Air

I figured you'd have the true skinny on that, thanks. BTW, my Airliners issue finally came in, enjoyed your article! Someone ought to do a book on defunct regional airlines of the Midwest, the ones that started out as commuters and then filled in as the larger "local service" airlines abandoned their original scope. Interesting history of a different era. All seems to be repeat evolution but in different economic climates. Now little Great Lakes is replacing the Mesas and Air Wisconsins and Britt/ExpressJets of the country, while in turn they replaced the Ozarks, Frontiers, and North Centrals.

-Rampart

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