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N77014
Topic Author
Posts: 812
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:16 pm

CM: New Hub In SDQ?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:11 am

Any opinions on a potential CM hub in SDQ?

Reasons for...

It could complement the route structure without cannibalizing the PTY hub.

D.R. authorities could welcome the investment from a new "hometown" carrier.

It would allow easier connections for caribbean based traffic without backtracking through MIA.


Your thoughts?
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aa1818
Posts: 1562
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: CM: New Hub In SDQ?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:55 am

I think it would be fantastic for CM to do that. I believe they are a very well run airline and could be one of the few to succeed in the Caribbean seeing as most of the airlines are either recently restructured or failing. CM could link SDQ with many nearby destinations for starters with the same fleet type as it has in PTY.

CCS
HAV
SJU
PAP
SXM
CUR
AUA
POS
BGI
KIN
PTY
MEX
MIA
YYZ
JFK

and it can probably find many more Central and North American destinations to fly to.
Its suprising that SDQ dont have a home carrier yet, but i believe there are a few startups as well as recently AA tried to set up a base there i believe!!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
MAH4546
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RE: CM: New Hub In SDQ?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:09 am

American Airlines, who is currently the largest airline in the Dominican Republic, was denied this past spring in their request to open up a mini-hub in the Domincan Republic. They wanted to open service to some Caribbean islands, as well as Caracas. Part of the reason was because the FAA rates the D.R. a "category two" country, but the Domincan government essentially said it would not be fair to let a foreign airline establish such a presence in SDQ.
a.
 
aa1818
Posts: 1562
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: CM: New Hub In SDQ?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:13 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
American Airlines, who is currently the largest airline in the Dominican Republic, was denied this past spring in their request to open up a mini-hub in the Domincan Republic. They wanted to open service to some Caribbean islands, as well as Caracas. Part of the reason was because the FAA rates the D.R. a "category two" country, but the Domincan government essentially said it would not be fair to let a foreign airline establish such a presence in SDQ.

If the US upgrades SDQ to Cat 1, do you think AA will pursue this mini-hub idea again?? would be great to have more AE ATRs floating around the Caribbean islands linking SDQ!!!

If islands like Trinidad, Barbados etc can be CAT 1 then surely SDQ can be upgraded without much fuss???

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26507
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: CM: New Hub In SDQ?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:25 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 3):

If the US upgrades SDQ to Cat 1, do you think AA will pursue this mini-hub idea again?? would be great to have more AE ATRs floating around the Caribbean islands linking SDQ!!!

I think that was more an excuse than anything else. It's all about national pride, and if there is going to be a hub in SDQ, a Dominican carrier will do it. It's the general feeling throughout Latin America, which is why countries are so tight on giving away 5th-freedom rights in the regions. Ironically, Brazil, who has a ridiculously strict air treaty with the US, is probably the most relaxed about giving away 5th freedom rights (i.e. Aerolineas Argentinas on MIA-GRU; JAL on JFK-GRU; AA on GRU-ASU).
a.
 
787kq
Posts: 379
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:52 am

RE: CM: New Hub In SDQ?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:27 am

Forget about it. SJU will remain the premier Caribbean hub, not only as a US gateway, but because of its shopping and medical facilities attract people in the area. Yes, there are Dominican's throughout the Caribbean, but not enough to sustain VFR based traffic and there is little business traffic because San Juan is the business hub.
 
md90fan
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RE: CM: New Hub In SDQ?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:39 am

American Airlines, Air Comet/Aerolineas Argentina, Spirit, Copa. Who's next?  Yeah sure
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aer
Posts: 699
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:10 pm

RE: CM: New Hub In SDQ?

Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:32 pm

Quoting N77014 (Thread starter):

Your thoughts?

Hey... they said GUA first hehehehe. Sounds great, and it will give CM a better foot in the Caribbean.
nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
 
N77014
Topic Author
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RE: CM: New Hub In SDQ?

Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:10 am

So then who is CM's biggest competitor? TA or AA?
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PavlovsDog
Posts: 561
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RE: CM: New Hub In SDQ?

Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:22 am

Asuncion is a market I'd be looking at if I were them. Paraguay have no national carrier and the city is well situated for a small hub.
 
FoxBravo
Posts: 2771
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2003 1:34 pm

RE: CM: New Hub In SDQ?

Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:45 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
I think that was more an excuse than anything else. It's all about national pride

I agree completely, but just to play devil's advocate, isn't it possible that they would look more favorably on a Latin American airline (e.g., Copa) setting up a hub there than a U.S. one that already dominates the Caribbean? It seems pretty unlikely that a home-grown airline will fill this role anytime soon.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
b752fanatic
Posts: 892
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 1:44 am

RE: CM: New Hub In SDQ?

Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
American Airlines, who is currently the largest airline in the Dominican Republic, was denied this past spring in their request to open up a mini-hub in the Domincan Republic. They wanted to open service to some Caribbean islands, as well as Caracas. Part of the reason was because the FAA rates the D.R. a "category two" country, but the Domincan government essentially said it would not be fair to let a foreign airline establish such a presence in SDQ

They have been been Cat 1 since May 07.

Part of the reason is that DR is creating some airlines, thus they do not intend to have AA overtaking their national startups.
"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
 
787kq
Posts: 379
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:52 am

RE: CM: New Hub In SDQ?

Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:52 pm

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 9):
Asuncion is a market I'd be looking at if I were them. Paraguay have no national carrier and the city is well situated for a small hub.

Geographically a good location. Unfortunately it doesn't have a lot of traffic either (only two airlines fly there?) and I understand it is relatively low-yielding traffic. TAM provides most capacity from Asuncion
 
PRAirbus
Posts: 741
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:59 pm

RE: CM: New Hub In SDQ?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:37 am

The foreign airline hub concept in SDQ has already been tried in the past. IB had a mini-hub w/DC9's and Spanish crews based in SDQ. There was a lot of noise w/LAN Dominicana and yet do they exist??? CM could run a mini-operation perhaps w/E190s but SJU has the infrastructure to remain the largest Caribbean hub. SJU has the gates, the terminals, ample US Customs facilities, hotel/casino on-site, vast number of connections and airlines as well as destinations. SJU will be inaugurating a new state-of-the-art terminal in a few months and the AA terminal atrium is under a major remodeling right now. SJU is also one of the busiest cruise ports in the region generating additional need for airline capacity. Too bad SJU's European offer is so limited, just IB A340 service several times per week.
 
N77014
Topic Author
Posts: 812
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:16 pm

RE: CM: New Hub In SDQ?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:05 am

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 13):
The foreign airline hub concept in SDQ has already been tried in the past. IB had a mini-hub w/DC9's and Spanish crews based in SDQ. There was a lot of noise w/LAN Dominicana and yet do they exist??? CM could run a mini-operation perhaps w/E190s but SJU has the infrastructure to remain the largest Caribbean hub. SJU has the gates, the terminals, ample US Customs facilities, hotel/casino on-site, vast number of connections and airlines as well as destinations. SJU will be inaugurating a new state-of-the-art terminal in a few months and the AA terminal atrium is under a major remodeling right now. SJU is also one of the busiest cruise ports in the region generating additional need for airline capacity. Too bad SJU's European offer is so limited, just IB A340 service several times per week.

FYI CM could not run a hub ex SJU, due to cabotage laws regarding foreign air carriers operating in/out of the US.

I find this low yield argument a bit excessive...as it is the whole market area is not well off financially for most people. You have a thin crust of wealthy travelers and foreign business interests, as well as occassional VFR traffic. If TA can make GUA ans SAL work, why can't SDQ work? Is there such a documented disparity in these markets?
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787kq
Posts: 379
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:52 am

RE: CM: New Hub In SDQ?

Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting N77014 (Reply 14):
FYI CM could not run a hub ex SJU, due to cabotage laws regarding foreign air carriers operating in/out of the US.

Meaning the hub could not include flights to other US destinations, right? Otherwise might they not be able to set up a hub with flights to non-US destinations (with proper authority) to Caracas, Aruba, SDQ, etc.

Nonetheless, without the US destinations, I don't think a hub would work in SJU.
 
N77014
Topic Author
Posts: 812
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:16 pm

RE: CM: New Hub In SDQ?

Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:39 am

Quoting 787KQ (Reply 15):
Meaning the hub could not include flights to other US destinations, right? Otherwise might they not be able to set up a hub with flights to non-US destinations (with proper authority) to Caracas, Aruba, SDQ, etc.

CM currently flies PTY-SJU. It could not carry passengers ex SJU top any other US destination, as that would be cabotage. It could in theory fly to SJU from any other country, provided it achieved the air rights from that third country to the USA, and the USA permitted it.
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A388
Posts: 8040
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: CM: New Hub In SDQ?

Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:15 am

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 13):
but SJU has the infrastructure to remain the largest Caribbean hub. SJU has the gates, the terminals, ample US Customs facilities, hotel/casino on-site, vast number of connections and airlines as well as destinations. SJU will be inaugurating a new state-of-the-art terminal in a few months and the AA terminal atrium is under a major remodeling right now. SJU is also one of the busiest cruise ports in the region generating additional need for airline capacity.

Agreed. SJU indeed is the largest and bussiest airport in the Caribbean with lots of connecting possibilities  checkmark 

A388

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