New DFW Service Announcement

FWFlyer · Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:11 am

Apparently DFW is planning on announcing new international service on Thursday. The mayors of both Fort Worth and Dallas are planning to be there, so it sounds big.

http://startelegram.typepad.com/sky_talk/2007/09/what-could-it-b.html

Any thoughts on what it might be?

ssides · Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:14 am

I'm guessing somewhere in Latin/South America. I'd love to see AF return, or get an Asian carrier in here, but I'm doubtful that will happen.

Or maybe QF will announce the long-awaited DFW-SYD service?

shamrock350 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:28 am

I would have liked if it was Aer Lingus from DUB but they have just said they wont be announcing any new routes until October 2008 which is a shame.

MAH4546 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:38 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 2):
I would have liked if it was Aer Lingus from DUB but they have just said they wont be announcing any new routes until October 2008 which is a shame.

Aer Lingus is freeing up an A330 from Dubai for summer to be used on US expansion. Miami, Dallas, and Philadelphia are the three cities being looked at, or they might just expand in a current market.

LAXdude1023 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:43 am

Hmm... this is exciting for DFW! The question is will this service be on AA or another carrier?

shamrock350 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:03 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Aer Lingus is freeing up an A330 from Dubai for summer to be used on US expansion. Miami, Dallas, and Philadelphia are the three cities being looked at, or they might just expand in a current market.

They have already planned on adding capacity to SFO/IAD so many of us thought more aircraft would arrive but now the commercial director, Enda Corneille has said new route launches were "unlikely" before October 2008.

So if Aer Lingus does axe its Dubai route next summer, that capacity is likely to be used to increase the frequencies on existing US routes (SFO), rather than to create new ones.

In 2009 the first of the new A333s arrive so DFW will probably be announced then along with the other cities they have been looking at.

NikonDFW · Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting FWFlyer (Thread starter):
Any thoughts on what it might be?

Most likely Jade Cargo starting DFW service next month. It will be a Shenzhen-Shanghai-Portland-Dallas v.v.-flown with 747-400ERF's.

LAXdude1023 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:24 am

Quoting NikonDFW (Reply 6):
Most likely Jade Cargo starting DFW service next month. It will be a Shenzhen-Shanghai-Portland-Dallas v.v.-flown with 747-400ERF's.

Is this new service for passenger or cargo service?

MAH4546 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:28 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 7):
Quoting NikonDFW (Reply 6):
Most likely Jade Cargo starting DFW service next month. It will be a Shenzhen-Shanghai-Portland-Dallas v.v.-flown with 747-400ERF's.

Is this new service for passenger or cargo service?

Cargo.

ssides · Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:29 am

Quoting NikonDFW (Reply 6):
Most likely Jade Cargo starting DFW service next month. It will be a Shenzhen-Shanghai-Portland-Dallas v.v.-flown with 747-400ERF's.

According to the Star-Telegram blog, the announcement will be made in Terminal D and is drawing the mayors of both Fort Worth and Dallas. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing (maybe a bit too hopefully) that it's (a) a new passenger destination, and (b) a new carrier.

MAH4546 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:36 am

Quoting Ssides (Reply 9):
According to the Star-Telegram blog, the announcement will be made in Terminal D and is drawing the mayors of both Fort Worth and Dallas. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing (maybe a bit too hopefully) that it's (a) a new passenger destination, and (b) a new carrier.

I think it's safe to say that it's not AA. If it was, it would have likely been leaked here already. AA is planning Dallas-Madrid, but not for this summer.

thomasphoto60 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:37 am

Quoting NikonDFW (Reply 6):
Most likely Jade Cargo starting DFW service next month. It will be a Shenzhen-Shanghai-Portland-Dallas v.v.-flown with 747-400ERF's.

Perhaps, but I don't think that there would be this much excitement to the point of dragging the Mayors of 2 major cities from their busy schedules to announce a new cargo route.

Perhaps EK had a change of heart and like Jade decided to leave IAH at the alter cheeky

Thomas

DFW13L · Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:47 am

Today they have big cranes changing the signs that have all the airline logos. I looked to see what logo they were changing, but couldn't tell as I drove by at 60mph. If that sign change is related, then it would be a passenger airline, because this is just for passenger carriers. I'll drive by again later and see if I can tell.

thomasphoto60 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:49 am

Just had a bad thought (at least for us IAH'ers), what if it's AI? IAH has been chasing this carrier for 20 years, and the last couple of years AI has been pitting IAH against DFW. I would hate to see all of IAH/HAS's hard work go down the tubes.

There was a thread regarding IB's plan to expand to another US gateway.

Thomas

[Edited 2007-09-26 23:51:06]

FWFlyer · Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:29 am

I'm hearing rumors now that it might be a new KLM flight from DFW to AMS beginning this fall.

zululima · Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:23 am

If the ceremony is in terminal D, then I'm betting against cargo. Besides, we've known about Jade and Shanghai Cargo for a few months. The fact that there is a ceremony involving mayors also seems to rule out AA and other established carriers. Very exciting stuff, as I've been craving new airlines here for the longest time, especially major international players, as we only see BA, LH, and KE (mexicanadian airlines excepted). Could be a lot of airlines really, I guess it depends on who has the aircraft available. BTW, when would these flights start? A few months at least, I'm sure, but hopefully not next summer or fall. The holy grail here would be someone with pax 747s, as we currently get none. Thank god I only have to wait until tomorrow to find out, or tonight if the new signs are a giveaway.

RyDawg82 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:41 am

Quoting DFW13L (Reply 12):
Today they have big cranes changing the signs that have all the airline logos. I looked to see what logo they were changing, but couldn't tell as I drove by at 60mph. If that sign change is related, then it would be a passenger airline, because this is just for passenger carriers. I'll drive by again later and see if I can tell.

They have been working all week on changing the signs up and down International Parkway. Terminal A no longer shows the Eagle logo, and the empty positions were filled with the DFW logo. Terminal B saw some additions of airport services signs and the USO logo. Terminal C was treated similar to A. And Terminal E saw some rearranging, including the new Delta logo, New Northwest sign, and other improvements.

Ryan

DYK · Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:12 am

KLM to AMS with daily 777

PanAm747 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:15 am

Well, if both mayors are showing up, I'm guessing it's not going to be the return of BFL... cry

My guess would be new international service from AA. LH has enough O&D from Germany to have a flight to DFW, but a SkyTeam flight? We know how AA reacts when a new carrier tries to enter this market...

zululima · Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:18 am

How about the chances of Virgin America/Atlantic. This press release is old, but I would assume the intentions haven't changed.

http://www.dfwairport.com/mediasite/...df/06/01/060112-virgin-america.pdf

zululima · Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:21 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 18):
but a SkyTeam flight? We know how AA reacts when a new carrier tries to enter this market...

Air France was here until the 9-11 market downturn. They or their partner KLM wouldn't be anything new to AA really.

elmothehobo · Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:33 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 18):
We know how AA reacts when a new carrier tries to enter this market...

AA's nuke strategy only goes into effect when a low fare carrier steps in. They haven't used it on a major carrier in recent times.

Quoting ZuluLima (Reply 19):
How about the chances of Virgin America/Atlantic. This press release is old, but I would assume the intentions haven't changed.

You would see the nuke option if Virgin America uttered Dallas.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
I think it's safe to say that it's not AA. If it was, it would have likely been leaked here already. AA is planning Dallas-Madrid, but not for this summer.

DFW-PTY wasn't leaked here until the day before. It might be another such route to Central America.

Though you are right, I'd be surprised to see American add anything new.

MAH4546 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:42 pm

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 21):

DFW-PTY wasn't leaked here until the day before.

It was actually leaked about a week before, just hidden in another thread. One reason AA route's "leak" so easily is because AA always puts new routes into reservation systems before they are announced, and sometimes they will be in reservation system for 2-3 weeks before any public announcement.

[Edited 2007-09-27 05:43:35]

bartond · Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:59 pm

Okay so what do we think it's going to be? KL to AMS doesn't seem all that likely to me. And if they came wouldn't it be a 763, as they only bring a 763 to ATL and it has one or two (ha) Skyteam connections. QF to SYD would be great but aren't they STILL going back and forth on buying new aircraft? IB would make sense but it sounds like AA is going to do any expanding to Madrid if it ever happens. EI, not sure but it sounds like they're a ways away from expanding and DFW probably wouldn't be the first destination, either.

I agree that it sounds like a pretty big deal if the mayors of both D and FW are going to be out there, so probably not another Asian cargo carrier, either.

So what is it going to be? What about Eva from Taipei? I haven't heard anything about this route but they're linked up with AA and it's not one of the fought-over China flights. Just a thought...

jr · Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:41 pm

Quoting Bartond (Reply 23):
And if they came wouldn't it be a 763, as they only bring a 763 to ATL and it has one or two (ha) Skyteam connections

I saw an A330 of KLM at ATL a couple of weeks back when I was on transit there. The 763s I think are gone now.

I wonder if this is going to be AF making a come back or perhaps Cathay? Wasn't it rumored before that AF would restart DFW?

Pbb152 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:28 pm

The DFW bigwigs were supposed to meet with reps from China Eastern last week to discuss pax service to DFW from PVG. Highly unlike they would announce the route so soon after, but who knows.

laca773 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:26 pm

I feel it's safe to say it's a carrier in the OneWorld group. A OneWorld member will have a better chance at success in DFW than a carrier from Star Alliance or Sky Team.

LACA773

DFW13L · Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:42 pm

Thinking about KLM...AA doesn't serve AMS at all, so there's a possibility they could serve DFW with impunity from AA! There's a big Skyteam (Delta) catchment, so I'll consider it a possibility.

gkirk · Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:47 pm

Perhaps it's just something trivial like announcing flights to Heathrow iso Gatwick Wink

MAH4546 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:40 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 28):
Perhaps it's just something trivial like announcing flights to Heathrow iso Gatwick Wink

Both American and British Airways have made their "Dallas to Heathrow" announcements.

tjwgrr · Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:21 pm

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 26):
I feel it's safe to say it's a carrier in the OneWorld group. A OneWorld member will have a better chance at success in DFW than a carrier from Star Alliance or Sky Team.

JL - NRT
CX - HKG
QF - SYD
LA - SCL
RJ - AMM

laca773 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:33 pm

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 30):

JL - NRT
CX - HKG
QF - SYD
LA - SCL
RJ - AMM

One important one that hasn't been mentioned is One World partner, Iberia. I see IB starting service MAD-DFW over the other partners mentioned here. Further, there has [had] been talk about re-introducing service to MAD and IB seems like it will be natural fit.

LACA773

tjwgrr · Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:08 pm

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 30):
JL - NRT
CX - HKG
QF - SYD
LA - SCL
RJ - AMM

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 31):
One important one that hasn't been mentioned is One World partner, Iberia. I see IB starting service MAD-DFW over the other partners mentioned here. Further, there has [had] been talk about re-introducing service to MAD and IB seems like it will be natural fit.

Oops. My Bad. Missed that one.

Gemuser · Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:09 pm

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 30):
QF - SYD

Not until they get serious A380 & B787 deliveries, say 2009/2010. At the moment they are so short of wide bodies that they will be using an A332 AKL-LAX 3 days a week!

Quoting Bartond (Reply 23):
QF to SYD would be great but aren't they STILL going back and forth on buying new aircraft?

???
The aircraft have been on order for YEARS. The fact that the A380 is running two years late has NOT been helpful. Deliveries of both the A380 & B787 should start within 12 months.

Gemuser

azncsa4qf744er · Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:16 pm

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 30):
QF - SYD

LOL!!!! Give that hope up already. QF SYD-DFW route won't be appearing on DFW's airport horizon anytime soon.

AAtakeMeAway · Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:31 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
AA is planning Dallas-Madrid, but not for this summer.

Hi Mark,

This is off topic, but since you mentioned it, do you foresee this rumored route being flown with a 772 hyper

or a 763

?

zululima · Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:42 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 33):
Not until they get serious A380 & B787 deliveries, say 2009/2010.

Not to mention the range involved. I know they want to serve DFW, but the reason they haven't is because the planes aren't available. I guess the most likely candidates are Iberia, KLM (or AF to a lesser extent), Cathay, EVA, or maybe LAN. Emirates switching from IAH or Aer Lingus are long-shots, as well as China Eastern, unless they hammered out a deal quite rapidly. I'll be happy with any of the above, but I'm hoping for KLM/AF, Iberia, or LAN. Also "Totally Unexpected Darkhorse Airlines" would be neat.

DFW doesn't have a thing about this on their website as far as I can tell. Anyone have any info on where to find coverage of the announcement besides the Star-Telegram Blog?

AFC_Ajax00 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:46 pm

It could be KL, I know some KL executives were in DFW a few weeks ago...

legend500 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:48 pm

The guys at Belo's aviation blog are betting BA MAN-DFW, "a Chinese airline" PVG-DFW or BJS-DFW, AF CDG-DFW or LH MUC-DFW.

elmothehobo · Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:17 pm

Quoting AAtakeMeAway (Reply 35):
This is off topic, but since you mentioned it, do you foresee this rumored route being flown with a 772
or a 763 ?

It'll be a 763, the only Madrid route that the 777 will ever be on with AA is Miami-Madrid, and that is because of ATI with Iberia and the enormous market between the two cities, and that may not be for years. Dallas-Madrid will be a highly seasonal, lower yielding route.

Pbb152 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:23 pm

Quoting ZuluLima (Reply 36):
Emirates switching from IAH or Aer Lingus are long-shots

Emirates switching from IAH is absolutely not going to happen. I don't think Thomas was being serious about that. EK will clean up on the DXB-IAH route.

Now back to the topic at hand--it sounds like it may be KL to AMS. Supposedly word leaked that it is not a route that will compete with a current AA route, and that would definitely qualify. But the amount of hoopla involved with the mayors of Fort Worth and Dallas announcing the service makes me think it could be China Eastern to PVG. That would be a huge new route for DFW, Texas, and the southwest U.S. I guess we'll know soon enough.

LAXdude1023 · Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:25 pm

My first reaction would be to say that it will be a OneWorld Partner, but I started thinking, is there any OneWorld partner that would start service there?

CX- I dont think so. Not before ORD
AY- No
IB- I dont think so, but more likely than the others
JL- Didnt they used to fly to DFW? But AA flies DFW-NRT 2x daily. That should cover that route sufficiently.
QF- Not now, maybe somedays.
LAN- AA covers DFW-South America well enough.
RJ- No
Malev- No

After thinking about this, my money is on either AF or KL. AF mentioned the possibility of coming back to DFW a few months ago. KL would be a better fit because DFW has no AMS service.

But Im not sure exactly who it will be.

elmothehobo · Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:35 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 41):
QF- Not now, maybe somedays.

Qantas wants to serve Dallas, they've been talking about it since 2002 when they signed their joint service agreement / joint venture with American. They don't have an aircraft for the route, which is what is stopping them.

aaway · Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:24 am

Quoting Pbb152 (Reply 25):
The DFW bigwigs were supposed to meet with reps from China Eastern last week to discuss pax service to DFW from PVG. Highly unlike they would announce the route so soon after, but who knows.

Officials representing DFW and MU have conducted meetings over the past couple of years. It appears the two sides have established a cordial relationship, but entreaties by DFW for pax service have thus far gained little traction.

Additionally, CAAC earlier this month announced new (preliminary) routes for 2008/2009 under its Network Plan. MU is being very conservative due the losses its incurred over its North America services:

Hainan Airlines: Beijing-Seattle, four times per week, Jun-08;
China Eastern Airlines: Shanghai-Los Angeles, two per week, Jun-08;
China Southern Airlines: Beijing-New York Newark, daily, Jul-08;
Air China: Beijing–Washington, daily, Mar-09;
Air China: Beijing–San Francisco, daily, Mar-09;
China Southern Airlines: Beijing–Detroit, daily, Mar-09;
China Southern Airlines: Beijing–London, daily, Mar-09;
Hainan Airlines: Beijing–Chicago, daily, Jun-09;
Shanghai Airlines: Shanghai–Seattle, three times per week, Summer or Autumn 2009;
Shanghai Airlines: Shanghai-Los Angeles, daily, Summer or Autumn 2009;
Hainan Airlines: Beijing–New York Newark, daily, Oct-09.

MU could possibly increase long-haul flying should SQ succeed in its bid and, therefore, vision for MU. But shareholder approval is a first requisite. And I wouldn't discount involvement from the Chinese government during this process.

So, no to MU/DFW - at least now. I'd suggest new European service this time.

LAXdude1023 · Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting Aaway (Reply 43):
So, no to MU/DFW - at least now. I'd suggest new European service this time.

I think so too. My money is still on KLM. I dont think AF could make it there since AA flies DFW-CDG. But since there isnt any AMS service from DFW, KLM could work.

When is the announcement to be made?

Mikey711MN · Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:36 am

Maybe it'll be NW (DFW-AMS or DFW-NRT) in response to AE's expansion of LGA-(Heartland). Wink

Tongue firmly in cheek,
-Mike

BigGSFO · Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 41):
JL- Didnt they used to fly to DFW? But AA flies DFW-NRT 2x daily. That should cover that route sufficiently.

Maybe JAL will come back and AA can reduce DFW-NRT to 1X (code share with JAL on their non-stop). DFW still gets 2 dailies to Tokyo and AA frees up 2 777's for expansion elsewhere.

Who knows.

LAXdude1023 · Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 45):
Maybe it'll be NW (DFW-AMS or DFW-NRT) in response to AE's expansion of LGA-(Heartland).

I thought about this too. I think if someone was going to operate DFW-AMS, it would be KL though.

blueflyer · Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:22 am

You guys are jetheads
http://startelegram.typepad.com/sky_talk/2007/09/speculation-gro.html

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 44):
When is the announcement to be made?

4 CST

bartond · Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:13 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 46):
Maybe JAL will come back and AA can reduce DFW-NRT to 1X (code share with JAL on their non-stop). DFW still gets 2 dailies to Tokyo and AA frees up 2 777's for expansion elsewhere.

You make a good point, but would AA step aside on this route and allow JAL to come in like that? Doesn't sound like something AA would allow, but you never know.

I'm still skeptical on the KL thoughts. Where are the pax going to come from on AMS-DFW? I could see that the DFW-AMS portion might have some pax to connect via all of the KL flights out of AMS to Europe, Africa, etc. but not as much coming back to DFW. Not much Skyteam feed at DFW via Skyteam anymore, either.

I have a feeling that this is going to be a relatively minor announcement when it all comes down to it. MX to Guadalajara or something like that. Ha.

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