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LAXintl
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Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:48 pm

Quote:
Delta in talks for Latin America partner
Sep 26 2007

Delta Air Lines hopes to secure an alliance partner in Latin America by next year, filling a gap in what has been a problematic region for the groupings which now dominate the global industry.

Glen Hauenstein, Delta's executive vice-president, said the SkyTeam alliance – founded by Delta and Air France – is in talks with "several unaligned carriers" in Latin America, which has been a focus of its own international expansion.

Delta has boosted its Latin American capacity by a quarter over the past year as part of a strategy which has seen it switch aircraft from unprofitable domestic routes to overseas destinations. Local alliance partners help boost traffic by offering onward connections and marketing support, especially for high-margin business passengers.

"[Latin America] is one of the holes for SkyTeam," Mr Hauenstein told the Financial Times as Delta unveiled a raft of new international services from its hub at New York's JFK airport. He said the alliance would "hopefully" secure a partner next year, bolstering the presence it has through Aeromexico and Panama's Copa Airlines.

Full article;
http://us.ft.com/ftgateway/superpage...329315462&referrer_id=yahoofinance
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:53 pm

The only real option is aligning with the new Varig/Gol group. Every other respectable airline in the region is taken, including two that are partnered with Delta.

AeroMexico - DL/CO/NW
Avianca - DL
Grupo TACA - UA
LAN Group - AA
Mexicana - AA
TAM - UA
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:19 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Avianca - DL

I would not count on this one. AV has had talks with UA & Star and could very well make a decision on firmly entering an alliance in the near future.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:03 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Avianca - DL

I would not count on this one. AV has had talks with UA & Star and could very well make a decision on firmly entering an alliance in the near future.

Count on what? Delta and Avianca are already partners, and codeshare on all of each others USA-Colombia routes, as well as domestic routes.
 
jetlanta
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:56 pm

Don't forget that COPA will accomplish much the same purpose for DL as Avianca. Avianca can't join SkyTeam due to COPA, so I suspect the DL relationship will end eventually.

Gol/Varig or Aerolineas Argentinas are the targets here, with the former being the crown jewel, clearly.
 
MD11junkie
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 4):
Aerolineas Argentinas are the targets here

AR is seriously out of the race. Management needs to get things straight and the service to an acceptable level.

Gastón - The MD11junkie
 
Summa767
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:31 am

I am a little thrown by Delta's statement. It almost sounds like it is sending a message out. A challenge to AV to test its plans? or a warning that it will dump AV, and replace it with CM, being that they are in Skyteam.
The "hole" needing to be gapped, as mentioned in the article, will not be much smaller though.
A Brasilian carrier for Skyteam is, of course, important too.

AR may need to sort itself out, but remains of appeal for the coverage in Argentina and around.
If AV found itself released of its relationship with DL, it could hasten the joining of Star..
 
EddieDude
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:57 am

I think Brazil is the market where SkyTeam should be looking for a partner. Brazil has the largest economy of the region and, in consequence, is the largest aviation market. Seems like JJ is a lost cause for SkyTeam, so RG-G3 is the only choice.

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 4):
Avianca can't join SkyTeam due to COPA, so I suspect the DL relationship will end eventually.

Well, I would not say that AV can't join SkyTeam... just that having both CM and AV on board would mean a lot of overlapping, so it looks quite unlikely.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:03 am

CO and DL are the only airlines with which Gol has signed an interline agreement... it follows that Varig will be part of the discussions in time. Gol/Varig could be a nice addition to Skyteam.
 
OB1504
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:18 am

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 4):
Don't forget that COPA will accomplish much the same purpose for DL as Avianca. Avianca can't join SkyTeam due to COPA, so I suspect the DL relationship will end eventually.

Does AeroRepublica, being owned by Copa, have any special ties to Skyteam or Skyteam carriers?
 
fewsolarge
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:27 am

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 4):
Avianca can't join SkyTeam due to COPA

Why, because they're right next door? Look at LH/OS/LX/SK, DL/CO, etc., etc. Colombia is a great property in Latin America, as a market and as a defensive block on other alliances. I wouldn't be so quick to discount their value to Delta and SkyTeam.

But truly, the work they need to do is in Brazil and the Southern Cone.

Interestingly, DL concluded an interline agreement recently with AeroSur of Bolivia, which is very centrally located.
 
cmb320
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:29 am

How is Latin America a hole for SkyTeam? Doesn't a certain Houston-based SkyTeam carrier serve more Latin American destinations than any other carrier? Or does Continental not share those destinations with SkyTeam?
 
bsbisland
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:37 am

Quoting CMB320 (Reply 11):
How is Latin America a hole for SkyTeam? Doesn't a certain Houston-based SkyTeam carrier serve more Latin American destinations than any other carrier?

True that DL+CO already have an big presence in Latin America, but flying to a few points in the region can be very different than having a partner airline that covers this region extensively.

I think Gol would give Skyteam a great cover of Brazil and other destinations in South America like ASU, VVI, COR, ROS, MVD, where Skyteam presence is very little or even none at all. No First/Business Class though, so Im not sure if it really fits in the alliance.
 
toltommy
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:03 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Count on what? Delta and Avianca are already partners, and codeshare on all of each others USA-Colombia routes, as well as domestic routes.

Current partnerships mean nothing. It's all about opportunities that other partners provide. Don't forget that DL was once partners with SQ and SR (R.I.P.). For all that DL had to offer, those two jumped ship.
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:29 pm

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 10):
Interestingly, DL concluded an interline agreement recently with AeroSur of Bolivia, which is very centrally located.

Aerosur (IATA code: 5L) is getting limited operations in South America and they are mainly domestic.
5L mostly operates with obsolete B737-200 and B727-200 adding DL does not fly to Bolivia.


.

Quoting BSBIsland (Reply 12):
I think Gol would give Skyteam a great cover of Brazil and other destinations in South America like ASU, VVI, COR, ROS, MVD, where Skyteam presence is very little or even none at all

DL may certainly fit their ATL-GRU and JFK-GRU in order to feed these possible operations with G3.


.

Quoting BSBIsland (Reply 12):
No First/Business Class though, so Im not sure if it really fits in the alliance.

Correct me if I am wrong but no in-flight entertainment and no meals on board as well on G3.
 
OB1504
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:45 pm

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 10):
Why, because they're right next door? Look at LH/OS/LX/SK, DL/CO, etc., etc. Colombia is a great property in Latin America, as a market and as a defensive block on other alliances. I wouldn't be so quick to discount their value to Delta and SkyTeam.

Copa owns a Colombian carrier (AeroRepublica), so I'm guessing this may have something to do with it.
 
TYCOON
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:10 pm

Let's not forget that certain Latin American airlines have cross-over alliances. For instance, AV may codeshare with DL in the North American market (hinting at Skyteam) but AV codeshares with IB for the European market (hinting at Oneworld). Equally, TA codeshares with UA (Star) in North America but with AF (Skyteam) for European traffic into the Central American market.
 
commavia
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:48 pm

Quoting CMB320 (Reply 11):
How is Latin America a hole for SkyTeam?

Because they don't have a member there, and having a member actually in the region or country being specifically targeted can often be a huge help in drawing and retaining valuable frequent flyers who would then, theoretically, be more inclined to also give other travel business to fellow alliance members with whom they can earn and redeem miles.

Quoting CMB320 (Reply 11):
Doesn't a certain Houston-based SkyTeam carrier serve more Latin American destinations than any other carrier?

Continental might technically fly to more Latin American destinations than any other carrier, but probably half of them - and definitely at least 2/3 of them if you exclude the Caribbean (which some here on A.net sometimes do) - are in Mexico alone. And of those, virtually all of them save a handful are served with only 1-2 daily Embraer RJs to Houston. Don't misunderstand me - I'm not minimizing CO's amazing coverage of Mexico, or their sizeable presence in Latin America overall, but while they may serve the most destinations, their capacity to the region - every single aspect of it - pales in comparison to AA, which is by far and away the region's dominant player.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:06 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 17):
Don't misunderstand me - I'm not minimizing CO's amazing coverage of Mexico, or their sizeable presence in Latin America overall, but while they may serve the most destinations, their capacity to the region - every single aspect of it - pales in comparison to AA, which is by far and away the region's dominant player.

Indeed. While CO serves the most destinations in Mexico, American Airlines carries more passengers between the US and Mexico than not only Continental, but also AeroMexico.
 
LH506
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:43 pm

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 16):
Let's not forget that certain Latin American airlines have cross-over alliances. For instance, AV may codeshare with DL in the North American market (hinting at Skyteam) but AV codeshares with IB for the European market (hinting at Oneworld). Equally, TA codeshares with UA (Star) in North America but with AF (Skyteam) for European traffic into the Central American market

But TA will very closely work with LH in the future and dump their AF relationship
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:25 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 15):
Copa owns a Colombian carrier (AeroRepublica), so I'm guessing this may have something to do with it.

P5 is basically domestic meaning the same service that AV is currently giving in Colombia to DL.


.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 17):
Quoting CMB320 (Reply 11):
How is Latin America a hole for SkyTeam?

Because they don't have a member there

Copa Airlines is an associate member since September 4th.


.

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 4):
Don't forget that COPA will accomplish much the same purpose for DL as Avianca.



Quoting Summa767 (Reply 6):
I am a little thrown by Delta's statement. It almost sounds like it is sending a message out. A challenge to AV to test its plans? or a warning that it will dump AV, and replace it with CM, being that they are in Skyteam.

DL is covering most of the mean destinations in Latin America through ATL. They do not certainly have the same product in New York City Area; therefore the establishment of share-operations may be essential to obtain successful results there. DL is introducing flights to Central America from JFK in December then the following market seems to be in South America, IMHO.
Why is DL looking for "unaligned carriers" if CM could fill the gap that DL is searching for? CM may move traffic on behalf of DL as they are doing with CO.
CM flies JFK-PTY as DL on ATL-PTY. If DL is aiming to serve more destinations from JFK, this is a viable option regarding DL is starting JFK-PTY in short-term with their own aircrafts.
AV seems to be an attractive choice as well if they improve their agreements in the future. Just as a clue, AV is flying JFK-BOG and DL has apparently applied for an eventual JFK-BOG as well.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:15 pm

Quoting LH506 (Reply 19):
But TA will very closely work with LH in the future and dump their AF relationship

has there actually been any official confirmation that they will seek to terminate their AF relationship ? If so , could you please provide a link ? Thanks
 
luisca
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:16 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 8):
CO and DL are the only airlines with which Gol has signed an interline agreement... it follows that Varig will be part of the discussions in time. Gol/Varig could be a nice addition to Skyteam.

CM currently Codeshares with G3 so we could say that G3 is more aligned towards SkyTeam.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 17):
Because they don't have a member there, and having a member actually in the region or country being specifically targeted can often be a huge help in drawing and retaining valuable frequent flyers who would then, theoretically, be more inclined to also give other travel business to fellow alliance members with whom they can earn and redeem miles.

And what is CM?

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 21):
has there actually been any official confirmation that they will seek to terminate their AF relationship ? If so , could you please provide a link ? Thanks

Nothing official, but TA is closer to *A than ever before. Everything points towards KL introducing AMS-PTY offering connections through CM and AF flying CDG-SJO also with CM connections...
 
Summa767
Posts: 1848
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RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:12 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 20):
Why is DL looking for "unaligned carriers" if CM could fill the gap that DL is searching for? CM may move traffic on behalf of DL as they are doing with CO.

That is a key phrase used inthe statement actually: unalligned carriers.
We can assume that there will be further collaboration between CM and DL, especially at JFK. But it is an "unalligned carrier" that they are seeking.
Brazil is of paramount importance, and their priority should be to concentrate there. Varig/Gol could be the one.

TAM codeshares with TAP, LH and UA. Will it end up in Star?
If Star also bag TACA they would redress, with a vengance, their hole in LatAm.
As for AV, Star is not unlikely, but where would that leave the AV/DL codeshares of 85 weekly frequencies (170 flights a week), between the US and Colombia?
 
luisca
Posts: 1530
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:37 am

RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:19 am

Did P5 get route authority for Colombia-US with the new bilateral? this would allow them launch service to MIA and could eventually replace AV.
 
Summa767
Posts: 1848
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:43 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 24):
Did P5 get route authority for Colombia-US with the new bilateral? this would allow them launch service to MIA and could eventually replace AV.

They have not got it yet, but they most likely will at the next public audience in November, now that new frequencies have become available, and Aerocivil had already promised them to P5.

You mean that P5 "replace" AV on a DL codeshare?. It probably could, even if it will be a while until P5 flights to MIA will have the same number as AV. We don't even know if P5 will have a business class, whose pasengers are the most important for an alliance. Not such prospects for the moment. The most sensible thing that CM/P5 could do is to use a/c with business class for the new MIA routes (if they manage to actually start them). They should also think about 737s for some of them.

I wonder if DL will dump AV first or the other way round..

Something I had wondered before is if DL is really happy in Skyteam, especially now that it really intends to grow internationally out of JFK. It's increasingly doubling with CO in many routes out of NYC to LatAm and Europe, as well as start serving points in Africa and the Middle East itself.
Anything could happen, also as consolidation in the US airline industry could well happen. It was reported a few monts ago that UA was interested in acquiring CO, but that it had also approached DL..
Either would be an interesting scenario as far as alliances are concerned.

[Edited 2007-09-30 20:52:56]
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Delta In Talks For Latin America Partner

Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:22 am

Quoting CMB320 (Reply 11):
Doesn't a certain Houston-based SkyTeam carrier serve more Latin American destinations than any other carrier?

As has been said earlier, the majority of that is due to dumping an RJ on just about any strip of Mexican pavement longer than a driveway.

Quoting CMB320 (Reply 11):
Or does Continental not share those destinations with SkyTeam?

Depends on how you define "share". IINM, CO and DL don't codeshare at all on int'l routes, though they do do so with NW.

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