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scbriml
Posts: 17776
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:12 pm

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 97):
I was to be honest expecting a larger number of total aircrafts to be ordered... I for some reason thought (Rightly or wrongly), this order was going to replace the entire 744 fleet.

That was never the plan. This order represents replacement of the 767 fleet (with growth) and the oldest 744s (they said 20 and they're ordering 19 with options).
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
VictorKilo
Posts: 238
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:39 am

RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:27 pm

Back in June, in this thread, I suggested that BA could order up to 25 A380's. Now that we know the number is 12, I want to try to use the same logic to suggest which routes would be operated by these 12 jets.

WW has mentioned three potential routes for the A380: CPT, JNB, and HKG. All of these are double overnight rotations where, due to scheduling and other factors, all flights leave within a short window, leaving no competitive advantage by offering multiple flights with smaller aircraft in lieu of one flight with a larger aircraft. The SIN 744 flight that does not continue to Australia shares this characteristic.

There are seven double overnight 744 flights (1 CPT, 2 JNB, 3 HKG, 1 SIN). BA could use all 12 planes on six double overnights, but that would leave six A380's parked at LHR all day. I think they will use 8 planes on four double overnights to a mix of these destinations, changing seasonally based upon demand - the remainder staying with 744s.

With four double-overnight planes arriving early at LHR and departing late, BA would be in position where adding a single frame would allow them to run flights where a round trip from LHR uses an aircraft for more than 24 hours, by taking advantage of the extended LHR ground time of the double overnighters. There are three markets currently flown by the 744 where aircraft are used for more than 24 hours on at least one of the daily flights - LAX (3 daily), SFO (2 daily), NRT (2 daily). I think each of those cities would see one daily A380 flight (replacing a 744 flight) to supplement their current capacity.

Plane 12 could be a spare, or it could operate a LHR-JFK run, similar to DL's 777 ATL-LAX run - easily substitutable in case of issues, but not a planned park all day.
 
OHLHD
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:28 pm

Great to see that both planes are fitting into BA's fleet!. Good move to order the best which is on the market.
 
ebbuk
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:29 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 73):
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that BA will most likely be the first British airline to operate the A380. Will be interesting to see how Sir Richard Branson reacts, and if Virgins A380 order remains in doubt, and if they are willing to loose out on a once in a life time PR opportunity.

I suspect the 2 airlines sorted this out around the same time they had a cosy chat about surcharges  Smile


Quoting OA260 (Reply 98):
I hope that BA get on board internet for all classes. This would give them a way of earning extra on board revenue. Say GBP.20 for a unlimited connection per flight. Those kind of things help pass the time .

Simply wouldn't do to have the internet on while enjoying scones and earl grey tea. Sky Sports though deffo!  Smile

________________________

I admit that in the past I had it that BA would never buy Airbus for long-haul. I even recall asserting that when it came to long-haul, the initials BA name was never British Airways, but Boeing Always. I can now declare I was wrong and that in fact the name is Boeing Airbus (BA)
 
babybus
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:42 pm

Not too surprising. Even if Boeing brought out an aircraft with a total flying range of 30 feet BA would have to buy it. That's the nature of politics.
This is a very nice order and keeps everyone happy. My suspicion is that the next order will be for A350's.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
columba
Posts: 5232
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:43 pm

Any idea which version of the 787 is selected.
I really hope this does not mean the end of the 747-8I with BA and it was only forget to be mentioned as a future possible 747-400 replacement.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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zeke
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:45 pm

Quoting Pilot21 (Thread starter):
British Airways has today placed an order for 12 Airbus A380 and 24 Boeing 787 aircraft with options for a further seven Airbus A380s and18 Boeing 787s. Both aircraft types will be powered by Rolls-Royce engines.

Congrats A&B.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
(BTW - the statement about noise is absolute bull. The A380 does not produce 1/4 the noise of a 744, nor does the 787. I was right under an A380 when it landed at LAX, right after a UA 744, and I could not tell the difference in noise level. They just had a different sound. On takeoff I am sure they are quieter than the 744, but 1/4 is nonsense. The A380 is not 20dB quieter.)

I have covered this on a previous thread, the EASA approved noise levels for jet aeroplanes TCDSN (Issue 2) http://www.easa.eu.int/doc/Certifica...e/odoc/TCDSN%20Jets%20(070831).xls shows the worst A380 (A380-841 569,000 MTOW 391,000 MLW Rolls-Royce Trent 970) has a cumulative noise footprint of 287.7 EPNdB, the worst 744 is (747-400 396,894 MTOW 295,743 MLW Pratt & Whitney PW 4056 (FB2T)) cumulative noise footprint is 306.0 EPNdB, the worst RR powered 744 is the (747-400 394,626 MTOW 295,743 MLW Rolls-Royce RB211-524H2) with a cumulative noise footprint of 302.1 EPNdB.

Cumulative noise footprints for the three cases was calculated with the following data (worst case data for types listed):
A380-841 Lateral 94.9 EPNdB, Flyover 94.8 EPNdB, Sideline 98.0, certified chapter 4 with Annex 16/I
744-PW4056 (FB2T) Lateral 99.7 EPNdB, Flyover 101.6 EPNdB, Sideline 104.7, certified chapter 3 with Annex 16/I
744-RB211-524H2 Lateral 98.7 EPNdB, Flyover 99.6 EPNdB, Sideline 103.8, certified chapter 3 with Annex 16/I

The 14.4 EPNdB cumulative difference between the noisiest A380, and the RR powered 744 comes out to be be 23.7% of the 744 noise level, which to me makes the "rated as producing a quarter of the noise level of the B747-400" as being a valid comment. BA would not need the highest MTOW configuration for their network, so the difference would actually be larger.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
Despite both aircraft being sold out past 2010, BA will start taking delivery in 2010.

So, what Airbus and Boeing mean when they say sold out is that there are no slots available based on orders AND secret reservations...

EY have delayed their A380 deliveries, KU have cancelled their 787s. Also BA may have access to QF aircraft via Oneworld.

KC135TopBoom,

If you are reading this, I think I won the HK$100,000 bet.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:46 pm

BA has replaced 20 B744 and 14 B763 with 12 A380 and 24 B787.

This shows that 8 B744 are being replaced with smaller aircraft.
Can one of the experts explain why BA is downsizing the fleet?
They talk about growth, but with smaller aircraft.
Yours confused!
 
Blackprojects
Posts: 527
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:52 pm

BA will need a taller Hangar for a380 work as only the Virgin Hangar at LHR/EGLL can Handle the 380due to the Notch that was built into the Hangars front wall when it was built.

Im wondering if the One airside can get modified or maybe Jacked up again?
 
ltbewr
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:53 pm

A shrewd decision balancing need and politics. RR is the biggest winner as supplying the engines for both orders. This keeps BA on the good side of the UK politicians and citizens by the spec of UK made RR engines, and that some major components of the A380 are made in the UK. The reality is that BA needed some A380's because of it absolute highest capacity they offer as can't expand the number of flight slots they have at LHR. Most likely the A380's will op out of LHR to serve their heaviest trunk routes especially Japan, China, Singapore and India as well as North American routes to JFK, The orders for the 787's clearly meets the reality that they needed to replace the 767's by the time of delivery for many medium demand and relatively long routes.
 
columba
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:56 pm

I wonder how Virgin will react, they have postponed their delivery of A380s now BA got even earlier delivery dates for their A380s.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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scbriml
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:57 pm

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 107):
This shows that 8 B744 are being replaced with smaller aircraft.

Not necessarily. They also took 7 options on A380s.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
BA380
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:57 pm

I was always confident that they would order the 380.

hence my username.

 Wink
cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
 
donder10
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:03 pm

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 107):
BA has replaced 20 B744 and 14 B763 with 12 A380 and 24 B787.

This shows that 8 B744 are being replaced with smaller aircraft.
Can one of the experts explain why BA is downsizing the fleet?
They talk about growth, but with smaller aircraft.
Yours confused!

For some of the North American routes the 744 may be too much capacity so I would imagine those routes may be downgraded to 777s and the 777 routes will see 787s replacing them in turn. The order is a net increase of 2 aircraft however, so I guess 1 or 2 routes will see a 744 replaced by 2 787s(again North American routes where frequency is important).
 
swallow
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:07 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 105):
Any idea which version of the 787 is selected

BAs firm 787 orders will be for both the -8 and -9 variants, powered by Trent 1000 engines http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-airbus-a380s-and-boeing-787s.html
The grass is greener where you water it
 
RIX
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:10 pm

Quoting SkidMarque (Reply 41):
Quoting Gkirk (Reply 41):
Surprised nobody has suggested that Airbus have given BA the A380s for free

Here you go :

Airbus gave BA the A380 for free.

- ROTFLMAO!!!  Silly

Great day for Airbus (well, indeed, Boeing "used to it"  Smile). A couple of things, however: BA gets 12 + possible 7 more A380s. That is, having 57 400+ seaters now. Saying, others will be replaced by something else. Which doesn't mean, no chance for either of 380 or 748 in future, but definitely not much chance. That is, contrary to what many were saying in "pre-BA-order" threads (repeating "market grows" mantra), and exactly like many others said ("no significant VLA market/orders"), VLA in general is not a success. Talking about BA, when Airbus first offered A3XX, would it be good news for them to hear, "BA, a huge 744 operator, will definitely get your superJumbo... a dozen or so of them"? The very fact that the rest of BA 744s are going to be replaced by midsize widebodies sounds not good for both 748 and 380 - but guess who is disappointed by this the most. How many more airlines are going to get VLAs? Will 748 get more than just a couple of orders (apparently, it will get some)? Will 380 reach its breakpoint in reasonable future (not in 40 years)? Airbus is happy that BA buys 12 380s, with no explicit sign of getting more, other than 7 options. Is that what they saw as a future for their flagship 6-7 years ago?

As for next midsize order - as much as I wish to see 773s, it looks like in general 777 goes 330 way: still many orders, still a future, but not as "new page" in airline fleet history anymore, while new page is what BA is currently doing. Now it all between 787 and 350. Boeing must do absolutely the best with 78A, it's a golden chance, having already 787s in BA fleet it would be their to lose. But as BA stated they consider 787 and 350 different aircraft for different markets, most likely we'll see a split here. For Airbus, not to get 350 orders from BA right now is not a big upset, as 350 is hardly a good 767 replacement (again, contrary to "market grows" mantra repeaters here). But not to get them in future will be quite a blow - in addition to overall VLA idea failure...
 
columba
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:19 pm





Both aircraft will look very good in BA colors !!!
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
theginge
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:24 pm

Delivery dates and details:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...aul-routes-and-delivery-dates.html

When are Virgin due to get their A380's, is it before 2012?
 
DAYflyer
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:24 pm

Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 8):
Was the 748I waiting at the alter?



Quoting Pilot21 (Thread starter):
British Airways has today placed an order for 12 Airbus A380 and 24 Boeing 787
aircraft with options for a further seven Airbus A380s and18 Boeing 787s. Both
aircraft types will be powered by Rolls-Royce engines.

I told you weeks ago this would an order for Airbus. If you recall, the government was putting substantial pressure on BA to order Airbus to preserve european/Brittish jobs. I am quite frankly surprised (but pleased) Boeing got any orders at all.

Unless Boeing sees a very substantial 748 order within 1 year, the program is  tombstone 
One Nation Under God
 
theginge
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:26 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 118):
I told you weeks ago this would an order for Airbus. If you recall, the government was putting substantial pressure on BA to order Airbus to preserve european/Brittish jobs. I am quite frankly surprised (but pleased) Boeing got any orders at all

How many times does it need to be said, there was no political pressure on BA!!! It was purely a business decision!!!
 
WAH64D
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:29 pm

Outstanding news. Congrats to BA, Airbus and Boeing. IMO they chose the best aircraft for both replacements.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
The future will still likely hold both the A350-1000/77W and 748i for BA, but not at this time. But it also won't be 9 more years, more likely 18 months.

As I predicted, there will be no B748i for BA now or in the future. LH are looking increasingly lonely with this type.

Quoting N1786b (Reply 40):
OTOH, "Vindicating its product strategy" is very pompous indeed considering they ordered the 787 instead of the A350.

They ordered B787-8/9 to replace and supplement the B763ER fleet. A350 will be ordered as a B772/B744 replacement further down the line. Of that I am quite confident. The precedent of "Boeing for Longhaul" is at last well and truly broken. Big grin

Quoting Skyhigh (Reply 49):
Are the RR engines the best fit for the A380 or is this a political move? What are the basic differences between them and P&W or GE (I think those are the alternatives)? confused

Its a choice between RR Trent or Engine Alliance GP (GE/PW collaboration) on the A380. Trent won because its a superior engine, plain and simple.

Quoting PM (Reply 84):
Meanwhile, another 100 Trents for RR. Ho hum. Another day, another order for 100 big fans... Big grin

 checkmark  Big grin
I AM the No-spotalotacus.
 
columba
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:29 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 118):
If you recall, the government was putting substantial pressure on BA to order Airbus to preserve european/Brittish jobs.

You are right 24+18 787s are a clear indication for political pressure especially since the A350 is also offered with RR engines.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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Stitch
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:30 pm

Coming in too late to say much other then color me surprised that BA has decided to go with the A380 and formally eschew the 747-8I (because they have, regardless of any statements they may have subsequently made). I thought they'd be the most likely customer for it, but it looks like they see enough competition ahead for them that they will need smaller, not larger, aircraft for the majority of their 747 fleet in the future, since I do not expect anything near a 1:1 744 to A388 replacement scenario.
 
jfk777
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:32 pm

BA must have gotten a hell of a deal to buy the A380 or they just had to buy planes with Rolls Royce engines.
 
swallow
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:33 pm

In addition to BA, 6 other customers have ordered both the 380 and 787. Engine choices are interesting:

787 380
British Airways RR RR
China Southern GE RR
ILFC GE/RR EA
Korean Air GE EA
Quantas GE RR
Singapore Airlines ?? RR
Virgin Atlantic ?? RR


Only BA and KE have chosen the 'same' engine supplier for both aircraft. ILFC has a mixed order. I do not know which engines will power SQ and VS 787 aircraft. Most likely they will be RR.
The grass is greener where you water it
 
Dakota
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:40 pm

Some nice computer animated pictures of BA's future Boeing 787 and Airbus A380 can be found here:


http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/pictures/ba_787.asp
 
EI321
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:41 pm

Hmmmmm I thought they would go for the 747.

This is a devastating blow for the 747-8I.

It was the one order that I considered a 'banker' for the aircraft. Im not entirely convinced we will see the passenger version enter service unless some other airline gets it and BA was to be that airline IMO. Oh well.

As for the A380, not a surprise really. BA and the A380 are made for each other, Good to see the 787 replacing the 767s , as expected. And Im pretty sure we will see the A350-1000 replacing the remainder of the 747-400s, and a mix of the 787-9, A350-900, and A350-1000 to replace the 777-200s. Im not surprised BA are still mentioning the 773ER, they need something to use against Airbus as a bargaining tool for the A350-1000. Looks like the A bashing academy got the rain shower they were expecting when they took out their 'BA will order A380 due to govt pressure' propeganda recently.
 
WAH64D
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:41 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 123):
BA must have gotten a hell of a deal to buy the A380 or they just had to buy planes with Rolls Royce engines.

Posts like this explain why you have a Respect Rating of 0 !

Seriously, you either haven't paid any attention to this whole issue or you just hear what you want to and bedamned with the facts.
I AM the No-spotalotacus.
 
columba
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Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:43 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 123):
BA must have gotten a hell of a deal to buy the A380

Why ????? Are you trying to indicate that otherwise BA would have never ordered it ?
It is either politics or price when Airbus is winning, isn´t it ?

I am very disappointed too that BA seems to have ruled out the 747-8I even for future orders but I would never bad mouth BA´s decision for choosing the A380. They have made very positive comments about the aircraft over the last couple of months so it was clear for me that we will see an order for 10-15 aircraft. BA seemed to be very pleased with its performance and its economics and they have several routes that need the capacity of the A380. It is a logical decision to buy the A380 especially since many of BA´s competitioner will use it (AF and LH from CDG and FRA and Asian and Middle Eastern Carriers to LHR not forgetting its home competitioner VS).
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
voodoo
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:45 pm




Someone forgot to blue up the engines......


By the way... just how interchangable are the parts for Trents viz. 787 and A380?

[Edited 2007-09-27 14:48:29]
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
CDG
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:49 pm

Congratulations to BA that's a VERY CLEVER decision !!
 
n1786b
Posts: 385
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:49 pm

Quoting Voodoo (Reply 129):

Someone forgot to blue up the engines......

They come in one color only.

- n1786b
 
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Stitch
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:51 pm

Quoting Voodoo (Reply 129):
By the way... just how interchangable are the parts for Trents viz. 787 and A380?

I imagine not very, just because of the scale difference of two families.
 
norcal
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:51 pm

It looks like Keesje is finally vindicated!

(insert picture of BA A380 in London Olympics 2012 livery here  Wink )



Congrats to both A and B!

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):

Just stop with the "political order" BS. This isn't an airline that faces political pressure. BA ordered what is best for them.
 
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scbriml
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:53 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 118):
If you recall, the government was putting substantial pressure on BA to order Airbus to preserve european/Brittish jobs.

Of course. The old cop-out. sarcastic 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUKWLB252120070927

Quote:
"There was absolutely none," Walsh told reporters when asked whether political pressure had been exerted. "There was no contact, be it formal or informal. The decision was made in the best interest of British Airways.



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 123):
BA must have gotten a hell of a deal to buy the A380 or they just had to buy planes with Rolls Royce engines.

Probably as good a deal as they got from Boeing for their 787s. Unless you know something that the rest of us don't?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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Revelation
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:02 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
The future will still likely hold both the A350-1000/77W and 748i for BA, but not at this time. But it also won't be 9 more years, more likely 18 months.

And here I was thinking that this thread would end the series of threads that crop up every 2-3 days or so, wondering what BA was going to order. Oh, well.

I think the 747-8i has been kicked to the curb. If BA couldn't find a place for it in its fleet, who else will?

Quoting N1786b (Reply 66):
In the engines, the choice of Rolls-Royce was because British is best

I don't know what Walsh was trying to say, but this reeks of jingoism to me.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 69):
They can still order the B 747-8 to replace their remaining [B 747-400s]. Who knows?

Don't hold your breath.

On the other hand, IIRC, 2-3 years ago BA was saying that it didn't see itself taking the A380.

IMHO this is a red banner day for the Airbus and the A380 program. They've busted the "Airbus for shorthaul, Boeing for longhaul" mantra chanted so often. They've forestalled if not permantly prevented the 747-8i program from getting a prestige customer they wanted to have very badly.

I wonder if the lack of success 747-8i is having will drive forward the Y3 program?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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Burkhard
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:08 pm

The best possible outcome ( almost)

A large Airbus and a large Boeing order!

The 787 rocks! The A380 rocks!

And a.net rocks! We can continue to start three threads a week on BA order to go 777 or A350 or Y3, with hundreds of posts each, until decision is taken around Y3 first flight! 10 years, makes 1500 threads and 150000 posts on the worlds most vivid aviation forum.

Congrats to all sides.

Sorry for the 748i, seems this is in deep problems now.
 
beechnut
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:09 pm

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 5):
(BTW - the statement about noise is absolute bull. The A380 does not produce 1/4 the noise of a 744, nor does the 787. I was right under an A380 when it landed at LAX, right after a UA 744, and I could not tell the difference in noise level. They just had a different sound. On takeoff I am sure they are quieter than the 744, but 1/4 is nonsense. The A380 is not 20dB quieter.)

No, it is not bull actually. Sound is measured in decibels which is a logarithmic scale. As a rough approximation, 3 db represents a doubling in sound power. Assuming a baseline sound level of 100 db for a 747-400, if an A380 produced 1/4 the sound of an A380, the sound level of the Airbus would be roughly 94 db. Producing 1/4 the noise does not mean 1/4 the db.

Beech.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1484
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:13 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 135):
Quoting N1786b (Reply 66):
In the engines, the choice of Rolls-Royce was because British is best

I don't know what Walsh was trying to say, but this reeks of jingoism to me.

I agree - perhaps he meant to say "the choice of Rolls Royce was because the British engine is best" (at meeting BA's engine choice criteria) - or perhaps he was misquoted.

Otherwise it's about as jingoistic as you can get! Why, you have to ask . . . ?
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
wolbo
Posts: 424
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:09 pm

RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:28 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 92):
Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 82):
Did you read the statement of BA?:

Quoting Pilot21 (Thread starter):
British Airways will continue to consider the most suitable aircraft to replace
its remaining B747-400 aircraft and is examining the B787-10, B777-300 ER and
A350XWB.

Yes I read it, and they haven't ordered the A350. I rest my case.

If that is the strength of your case you are indeed well advised to let it rest.  Smile
 
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scbriml
Posts: 17776
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:30 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 135):
I wonder if the lack of success 747-8i is having will drive forward the Y3 program?

Or a rethink on the whole concept of a Y3 if Boeing decides there really isn't a big enough market to justify spending $10bn+ developing a new plane above the size of a 787-11 (which they could build much more cheaply).
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Carls
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:22 am

RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:34 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
Walsh even said as much re: the A380. And despite what some claim, the pressure politically to order the RR powered A380 with British wings was also a factor.

Also Airbus gave the A380 for free........Can you tell us what part of the 787 is made in England????
Is not because the A380 it is a superior A/C than the 748, not. It is only for political reasons.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
(BTW - the statement about noise is absolute bull. The A380 does not produce 1/4 the noise of a 744, nor does the 787. I was right under an A380 when it landed at LAX, right after a UA 744, and I could not tell the difference in noise level. They just had a different sound. On takeoff I am sure they are quieter than the 744, but 1/4 is nonsense. The A380 is not 20dB quieter.)

Seems that BA technicians disagree with you.
 
NYC777
Posts: 5103
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:34 pm

A couple of observations on this:

1) Seat gap. Assuming that BA follows through and replaces their 744s with A380s and 77W/A350-1000 then they will have a 200 seat gap which says to me that they would probably going towards more frequencies on smaller aircrafts for a lot of their long haul routes unless they do opt for the 748I at a later date.

2) This is a big win for both OEMs as it get airbus an important new customer for he A380 and for Boeign as it continues the string of success wtih the 787 and getting blue chip customers to sign up for that airplane.

3) BA said they were going to replace 34 airplanes with this order and it looks like they're doing it on an almost 1 for 1 basis with a firm orders for 36 airplanes but with this order does it sem they are reducing capacity or increasing capacity?

4) IS the 748I out of the running well if it is it isn't because of engine selection IMO but I do think that Boeign can resharpen their pencils. BA still has 37 744s that they will have to replace and I do think Boeing can offer them a great package on the 748I/77W.

5) BA has to start thinking of replacing some of their early model 777s quite soon. Granted that some of them are only 10-12 years old but given the way that delivery slots are filling up they need to move a little quicker than ususal. I see the 787-10 being aperfect fit for them on that replacement program.

6) Delivery dates. BA played this on so well and got Boeing and Airbus to committ 2010 delivery datesfor both aircraft! That sets them very nicely for 2012 and hte London games! They would have gotten a few years experience operating the aircraft and squeezing out more efficiencies thus making those ops very cost efficient. IT was gamble for both Boeing and Airbus to save those delivery slots that could have been given to other customers but given the level of the BA order it was a wise gamble. 2010 for a BA 787!! Hopefully they would be flying them to JFK but I don't think that'll happen. BA must have gotten some of the A380 delivery slots from the UPS/FedEx A380F slots.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
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Stitch
Posts: 26503
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:36 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 135):
I wonder if the lack of success 747-8i is having will drive forward the Y3 program?



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 140):
Or a rethink on the whole concept of a Y3 if Boeing decides there really isn't a big enough market to justify spending $10bn+ developing a new plane above the size of a 787-11 (which they could build much more cheaply).

I think fragmentation driven by competition is going to be "the rule" going forward, while will drive drown the average traffic per plane while driving up overall traffic. The exception to this will be around two score or so of trunk routes which will see average traffic per plane and overall traffic rise.

This pattern will likely invalidate a 400-500 seat plane, which is why the 747 has essentially stopped selling as a passenger plane. Current 747 operators will buy a score or two of A388s for those trunk routes and shed-loads of 787s and A350s for the other routes.

So if Y3 goes forward, I remain of the opinion the -100 will be 350 seats and the -200 will be 400 seats and there will not be a model designed to replace the 747 and offer 450 seats.
 
SKY1
Posts: 611
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:03 am

RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:37 pm

I'm going to say it again as I really believe still there is a small oportunity to be true:

I think BA has not ruled out the 747-8I.

Today is too soon to say categorically BA will never buy any 747-8I pax
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
Carls
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:22 am

RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:49 pm

This are the answer I got two days ago from thread : New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?

RedFlyer:
The fact that there are no 748i's in that list tells me the source is dubious. I think BA will, like LH, go for the A380 AND the 748. They have shed loads of 744's, and while some will be replaced with A380's and others with A350-1000's, there are going to be plenty that will need to be replaced/augmented with 748's.

Quoting SkyGazer (Reply 55):
What do you suppose they replace them with? 50 A380s?

No, they will replace them with 15 firm A380 and 10 Commitment.
I know all the A.Net "airlines management" will start saying that this is not going to happen, I just have to say let's wait and see what they will order. End of the chapter for me.

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 60):
which probably means Boeing is being extremely generous with the price to try and entice BA to order the 748 and get the orders rolling.

I would like to know what they have to say now.
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:57 pm

Quoting Vega (Reply 3):
the answer to the following is obviously the 350. If for no other reason than to maintain EURO political relationships.

 Yeah sure
Such a shame, so early in the darn thread.....some people just really can't help themselves.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
flyabr
Posts: 856
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:42 am

RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:58 pm

i'm wondering how many slots are left for DL/AA/UA if they decide soon to order up some 787s...or are they now screwed for early delivery??
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1234
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:02 pm

I had a feeling that the A380 would be ordered, the 787 was a given.

Congrats to all parties involved, and I look forward to seeing both aircraft in BA colours soon enough.

'Boeing Always' for BA no more!

On a sidenote, wouldn't mind betting that VS will keep their order now, after all they wouldn't dare be outclassed by BABig grin
 
Carls
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:22 am

RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:02 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 38):
Surprised nobody has suggested that Airbus have given BA the A380s for free

I spoke with someone who work for Airbus administration dept. and he told me that, in fact Airbus paid BA to get the A380. And it was a huge check!!!!!! yes   white   white 
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