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jtdieffen
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:00 am

Quoting S.P.A.S. (Reply 248):

If indeed from Willie, the last paragraph is very clear about the B747-8i role (or lack off, actually) in BA future plans

As telling as that is, the only caution I'd use is that wee-Willie-Willie also said that they would not split the order that they ended up splitting. Let's not over-analyze wording until the RFPs are out for the next round. Virgin for example swore up and down that quads were the way to go, but ended up with a chunk of 787s. Walsh may not even be at BA when the next round of orders go out. The bottom line is, never rule anything out until the order is signed.
Regards! JDief
 
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scbriml
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:10 am

Quoting Jtdieffen (Reply 250):
Walsh may not even be at BA when the next round of orders go out.

The next batch of long-haul orders are expected in 2008-9. You think Walsh won't be there then? Sounds like wishful thinking.  wink 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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Viscount724
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting FlyingAY (Reply 12):
When was the last time BA ordered a plane that had not entered in service?

B707-420 (ordered 2 years before the first 707 went into service), also B747-100, B767-300ER, B747-400, B777-200.
 
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scbriml
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 252):

I suspect there are some non Boeing types to add to that list.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
JRDC930
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:44 am

Quoting Douwd20 (Reply 245):
The fat lady has not sang

I dont know, BA was a pretty fat lady... Smile Seriously though, no one else is even seriously considering the 748I... if people want a VLA it will be the 380. (I like both planes, but realize the 748 I just doesn't cut it.).
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
Viscount724
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:47 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 253):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 252):


I suspect there are some non Boeing types to add to that list.

Yes, including almost all British-built types operated by BA or their predecessors. In most cases they were the launch customer.
 
ferengi80
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:51 am

I have to admit to being very surprised by this one. BA has has a Boeing long-haul fleet with the 747-400s and 777s for several years now, and I really didn't expect them to replace the 744s with A380s. I expected BA to go with the 747-8 for the 747 replacement, and the 787 for the 757, 767 and 777 replacements. It really is a turn up for the books to see BA order Airbus long-haul. Very much doubt they will go with the A350 if they are ordering the 787 though. More likely to go with more 787s and possibly even some 747-8s in the future.
AF1981 LHR-CDG A380-800 10 July 2010 / AF1980 CDG-LHR A380-800 11 July 2010
 
Ken777
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:52 am

Congrats to all involved. It's a good win for the 787 and 380 and a great win for RR.

It's going to be interesting to see how A&B respond to BA's orders. Airbus is in a pretty good position at BA right now with the 380 ordered and the 350 identified for future consideration. It puts a lot of pressure on Airbus to move the 350 along and I think that they will.

Boeing, for me, looks to be moving in a different direction, even though they picked up the 787 order. The 777 and 747 look to be heading to an EOL in terms of new, long term orders. The 777 will obviously sell very well for a while and the 748i will probably continue to pick up orders when 744 replacements are needed. The issue seems to be that in this market the 359 appears to be heading to some strong sales if Boeing doesn't respond. So will Boeing respond with Y3 sooner rather than later, or will they play the games that Airbus played with the 350 before going composite? I think moving Y3 up a bit may be in the cards as it gives Boeing the best leverage against the 350. BA would probably be happy with that also as it can only be a win for them to have the most advanced planes in the next few sales battles.

The old "Airbus for shorthaul and Boeing for longhaul" appears to be gone with the 380. Great for Airbus on this order, but it does open doors for Boeing with Y1 - something Airbus would rather not see.

All in all I see BA's order as a pivotal one for everybody involved. It puts A&B on notice that they need to get on with development in the 350/Y3 market, it reduces potential for the 748i and it is obviously a great start for BA.
 
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scbriml
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:52 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 255):
Yes, including almost all British-built types operated by BA or their predecessors.

Viscount, Vanguard, Trident, BAC 1-11, VC-10, 748 (the HS variety!)?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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Ncfc99
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting Jtdieffen (Reply 250):
the only caution I'd use is that wee-Willie-Willie also said that they would not split the order that they ended up splitting

I believe BA said that the VLA order would not be split this time(only 388 or only 748). Any future orders may be for the 388 again, or the 748 or neither.
 
Viscount724
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:08 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 258):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 255):
Yes, including almost all British-built types operated by BA or their predecessors.

Viscount, Vanguard, Trident, BAC 1-11, VC-10, 748 (the HS variety!)?

I don't think BA (or BEA prior to the BOAC/BEA merger) was either the launch customer or an early operator of the BAC 1-11 or HS748. The others, yes. Also the Comet and Britannia.
 
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Stitch
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:08 am

Quoting DavidT (Reply 226):
Has (the 787-11) been officially announced? To me if it isnt a stretch (ie they change the cross section) isn't it a new type of aircraft? Is this the same as Y3?

The 787-11 would be a 6m stretch of the 787-10 with a total length of 75m. It would have a cabin floor area between the A350-1000 and 777-300ER and would seat 330-370 people in three classes.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 230):
How can you forget something that doesn't exist? Many here have speculated that it is a possible development, or even a likely development, but we can barely get Boeing to tell us what the 787-10 is.

That it can reasonably exist is good enough for me. Since I don't believe Boeing intends to abandon the 300+ seat market to Airbus, they have to come up with something. And a stretched 787-11 is going to be something they look at, amongst others.

Heck, when Airbus announced the A350NSWB, they mentioned that a 777-200-sized A350-1000 was a possible addition to the fleet, even though only formally announced and offered for sale was the 787-8 sized A350-800 and 787-9 sized A350-900.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 244):
How exactly do you justify this statement (that BA wants the 787-10)?

Willie Walsh mentioned the 787-10 specifically as an airplane they are looking at for future purchases. There are multiple quotes up-thread.
 
boo25
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:15 am

Well, i work for BA, and I am .....SHOCKED !!! Big grin

BA are fairly prudent in their airframe choice, so i am surprised they have gone for
A) A massive airliner - A380
B) A new technology type - 787

I know that cost/efficiency and environmental parameters would have been important, but i have to ask if this is the choice that suits the network profiles ?

I really thought the 777-300ER would figure and the 747-800, so i am surprised... i just think the 380 is too big, the 787 too small.

The A350 would have been perfect if it was available sooner too;
I don't believe this order really reflects the genuine needs of the airline, and i wonder if they may come to rue the day the current management ordered it ?

We'll have to see, I am not convinced and hope they give full justification for their reasoning....

I know the LHR situation is tight, but then why did they then swop 60 757/767s for 120 airbuses - frequency has increased hugely on shorthaul, alongside the problems of congested terminals / parking space . . . i do not buy into the whole slot arguement  Smile
 
jtdieffen
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:18 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 251):
The next batch of long-haul orders are expected in 2008-9. You think Walsh won't be there then? Sounds like wishful thinking.

I'm not wishing, or thinking it, but I'm just saying that any possibility can't be ruled out. Prior to the announcement, everyone was emphasizing that an order for one didn't preclude an order for the other. Now, there seems to be mass hysteria surrounding the failure to buy the 748i. I'm just saying that there's no way to know what will happen in the next round, even if they are saying one thing already.

Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 259):
I believe BA said that the VLA order would not be split this time(only 388 or only 748). Any future orders may be for the 388 again, or the 748 or neither.

You may be right. I thought it was a quote regarding the whole order, not just the VLAs, but I could easily be wrong. Either way, the point still remains that until a deal is signed, all options should be considered viable.
Regards! JDief
 
LH423
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:21 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 206):
SFO

You think? Are those the routes they're throwing around at Waterside? Most make sense except SFO. Unless they were to reduce frequency, during my tenure at BA it never seemed as strong of a performer compared to several other US routes and can be extremely seasonal (i've seen SFO's 2-747s split less than 200 passengers between them during the dead of the off-season). I'm not doubting you since I'm no longer 'in the loop', but I'd be truly surprised if SFO saw the A380 over, capacity/frequency wise similar, Miami.

LH423
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FAEDC3
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 86):
I guess now i'll have to stick to LH when going over to Europe, as they seem like the only carrier, at least in the near term, that'll fly the one and only Super Jumbo in my book: 747-8 Intercontinental.

It amazes me how far people would go to make a point.... That, my friend would narrow your options to fly across the pond to maybe 5%. I feel no envy for whoever might play as a travelling partner for you  Wink What drives all this nonsense?

Quoting Revelation (Reply 135):
Quoting N1786b (Reply 66):
In the engines, the choice of Rolls-Royce was because British is best

I don't know what Walsh was trying to say, but this reeks of jingoism to me.

and the answer came....  Wink
 
abba
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:32 am

And how will this order for the 380 by BA impact other airlines such as CX?

Abba
 
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Stitch
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:41 am

Quoting Abba (Reply 266):
And how will this order for the 380 by BA impact other airlines such as CX?

I feel it will influence them towards the A380.
 
GDB
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:47 am

The E-Mail S.P.A.S. linked is genuine.

BA conducted a very through evaluation for this order, as the e-mail says, the second round will involve the types quoted, nothing else, that is the reality, everything else is speculation and as shown, incorrect.

I still await proof of any political interference in the order announced today.
Bottom line, thinking this is based on a notion 40 years out of date, here's the deal, if what is inferred by some is true, then the Texan in the White House is Lyndon Johnson.
 
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ER757
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:04 am

To those who say this order was influenced by politics, give it a rest. I think the 787 and A380 were no-brainers for BA. I am, however surprised the 748 wasn't in the mix. I know they'll have some of their 744's for a long time, but I somehow just can't imagine BA without the 747. It would be like WN without the 737. Oh well, times change, don't they? As to the future widebody orders, I wouldn't think the 773 would be in the hunt. By the time they would need to start taking delivery, the A350-1000 will most likely be in service and one would imagine the 787-10 would be available as well. Both options should offer better economics than the 773 (at least one would hope so being a generation more advanced). That should be an interesting battle to watch.
As for this order, it really was a "must win" for the A380 and it was certainly an important victory for Airbus in the VLA portion. The 748i is, IMHO, in trouble after being passed over by BA and I am saddened by that. I am sure Boeing is happy about getting the inevitable BA 787 order on the books, but must be smarting on the 747 front.
 
ikramerica
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:56 am

Quoting S.P.A.S. (Reply 248):
If indeed from Willie, the last paragraph is very clear about the B747-8i role (or lack off, actually) in BA future plans

It also does not mention A380s in the future plan.

So are you going to make the same claim regarding the future of the A380 at BA? That they will take between 12 and 19 A380s and no more, ever, because that one sentence doesn't mention the A380?

I thought not.

They have 57 744s to replace by 2019 (assuming they don't want 744s flying that are 20 years old). 12 of them will be replaced by 12 A380s, and it looks like they intend to replace the other 8 with 10 787-9s to add up to 20 744s replaced. That leaves 37. 7 can be replaced with A380s on option. That leaves 30. With BA saying they want to grow their fleet size by 4% a year, and that there are limited spots at LHR, please explain how replacing 30 744s all with smaller planes solves those problems...

Expect either more A380s or some 748i (15-20) in the future. And last time I checked, neither of those were listed in that last sentence...  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
StressGuy
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:01 am

Congratulations to all involved! I must say I am somewhat sad to see BA not buy 747-8's since they have such a long healthy relationship.

I believe that this sales campaign will leave Boeing with a lot to think about. It seems that BA's decision takes a lot of momentum away from the 747-8I. Although many others write on this forum about models of the 787 beyond the -10, I don't believe that Boeing will go down that road. I expect that even if Boeing does end up building the 747-8I, they are actively thinking about a clean sheet 777 replacement in the 350-425 passenger range that will enter into service in time to slow A350 sales. I think this will be sooner rather than later although the availability of engineering resources will set the schedule as they probably are looking at the 737RS as well. A clean sheet 777 replacement would provide BA with a very interesting choice. Anyway the next 10 years will be very interesting in commercial aviation.
 
PlanenutzTB
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:24 am

The big winners with this order are Boeing and Rolls-Royce, all profit in this order for them. Airbus still needs another 243 orders for the 380 to break even. On the positive side this order does reduce Airbus's red ink on the A380.
I am extraordinarily patient, provided I get my own way in the end.
 
flymd
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:28 am

Quoting Douwd20 (Reply 225):
But isn't this the whole reason Boeing chose not to go with a VLA? Boeing noticed that most operators were replacing their 747's with 777's?

Well I think that the overall numbers (in terms of A380s and 787s sold) supports the argument that operators are in general focusing on longer (and in some cases thinner) routes but there also is that VLA niche (i.e. large hub/metropolis to large hub metropolis).

I guess this leaves the 747-8 out. If airlines want a VLA, they go with the A380. If they want a longer/thinner aircraft, they go with the 787.

I think the 747's success in the past (when it was the VLA of the day) will be the A380s success of the future.
Fly the friendly skies of life!. Enjoy every minute.
 
addrenaline
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:38 am

Glad they have gone public, as expected an A380 order, less than I expected but an A380 order none the less. As I stated its " greenness " to the environment and the slot situation at LHR, were key elements in this decision.

Not to pour water on some of you ideas about the 747-8i having a chance with BA

But, I really cannot see British Airways ordering the B747-8i period...After all It's a warmed over old (40yr) aeroplane design which is not the way BA or most other carriers will go !

I think, it will be Brand New technology all the way for BA and the follow on order, and it will be A350... No question in my mind...

Add
 
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RayChuang
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:41 am

I think BA may increase their 787 order to completely replace their their 757 and 767 fleet over the next 12-14 years. I wouldn't be surprised that the order could reach as many as 45-50 787's, mostly 787-9 models. With the new EU Open Skies treaty in place that replaces the Bermuda II agreement, that could open the door for BA to assign the 787-9 to fly to smaller American cities from both LHR and LGW, while the older 747-400's will be rebuilt for flights to tourist destinations (MCO, much of the Caribbean, and possibly LAS).

BA could become the second-largest A380-800 operator after EK if they decide to use the A380 as their primary large airliner. They could certainly use the A388 on the flights to the US West Coast from LHR.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:52 am

Quoting Swallow (Reply 17):
BA goes head to head with SQ and QF with the 380.

Not with QF. The JSA (Joint Services Agreement) between BA and QF calls for the two airlines to share all revenue, costs and profits on all routes flown by both airlines between Australia and Europe (not just the UK).

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
the pressure politically to order the RR powered A380 with British wings was also a factor.

Of course. I mean no one would order Airbus aircraft without political pressure, would they? The only mystery about all of this is who applied the political pressure on US to make them the largest airline in the world when measured by the number of Airbus aircraft they either operate or have on order. Perhaps it was George W?

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 109):
This keeps BA on the good side of the UK politicians and citizens by the spec of UK made RR engines, and that some major components of the A380 are made in the UK.

Some major components? Of course the 380 is a French (or is it a Franco-German) aircraft. But the version BA have ordered will have British wings, British engines and a whole host of smaller British components to the extent that well over 50 per cent of the BA monies used to purchase it are destined to be paid to British companies. God save the Queen. Damn! Where's my Union Flag!

Quoting Revelation (Reply 135):
In the engines, the choice of Rolls-Royce was because British is best

I don't know what Walsh was trying to say, but this reeks of jingoism to me.

Jingoism? But he's an Irish national. He's not British. So where's the jingoism in that? This brings to mind a famous quotation by Winston Churchill (who had an American mother). Talking of the UK and the USA (so I guess it also applies to Canada) he said that they are "two peoples separated by a common language".

As you should know we do lots of peculiar things on this side of the Atlantic. For example we walk on the pavement (not the sidewalk). And about twenty years ago - this is an absolutely true story - I sent a young British male graduate who had just joined my company to work in our HQ in the USA primarily with a group of highly technically qualified young women. Of course there was a no smoking rule in their office. So, as a smoker, it was not long before he announced to his new colleagues (somewhat to their consternation) that he was "just popping out for a fag". Some days later he asked one of his new colleagues if she had a rubber. By the next time he wanted one he had learnt to ask for an eraser.

Returning to Willie Walsh what he said was that BA chose Rolls Royce because the British engine is the best choice. I think if you are American (or Canadian) that adding just the word "choice" may put a somewhat different slant on your interpretation of this remark.

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 182):
BA claims that the choice for the 380 was made with absolutely no political interference or sense of nationalistic obligation (noting large portions of the bird are made in Britain (this is paraphrased from another aviation website), and only because it was the best A/C for their needs, bar none. However, practically in the same breath, they have stated that Rolls Royce will power their 380's because "British is Best." Does anyone else find those two statements contradictory to the extreme?

I do not. First it was not BA that made this claim but its CEO, Willie Walsh. He is an Irish national. So the concept of "nationalistic obligation" fails immediately. So do allegations made elsewhere of jingoism. And if BA had ordered GE power plants and Walsh had explained this by saying that BA chose "GE because American is best" what problems would you have had with such a statement?

Walsh played two political (with a small "p") cards in his announcement. One was the "British" card. This counters Branson and many of his "British" statements. It also recognises that more of BA's customers are British than any other nationality. And as any worthwhile CEO will tell you saying something your customers like to hear is good for business.

The other "political" card he played was the "green" card. In the UK (and I believe elsewhere) air travel has become the kicking boy not just of fervent greens but in our case of all three of our major political parties. They seem to be vying with each other to invent the most punitive tax regimes that they can think of to apply to commercial aviation to establish their own green credentials. So when you take a step towards reducing gaseous and noise pollution (even though in ordering new aircraft you could not help but take that step) you apply the political pressure for all you are worth to try to get the electorate on your side and save your industry from being taxed into oblivion.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 258):
Viscount, Vanguard, Trident, BAC 1-11, VC-10, 748 (the HS variety!)?

I do not think they were first with the 1-11 or the HS 748. But they were both first (and, if you exclude Singapore Airlines and Braniff's flirtations with it) and last with Concorde and also first with the Bristol Britannia. But none of these were a free choice. There was more than political pressure in each case. There were political orders.

It is those political orders that explain why we Brits can be so sure that there no longer is such pressure. In simplistic terms the privatisation of BA in the late 1980s meant that for almost 10 years before (from July 1979) and ever since no British government would dare to apply the slightest pressure to BA. If they did that today it woulds be leaked to the media immediately. And lesser things than that could bring governments down.

Finally congratulations to both Airbus and Boeing. Interestingly A went the VLA route and then had second thoughts and also aped Boeing's Dreamliner but won the BA VLA order. Similarly B went the Dreamliner route and then had second thoughts and also aped Airbuses VLA but won the Dreamliner order. Perhaps they should both have stuck with their original decision.
 
AEROFAN
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:52 am

I wonder if this now means that VS will decide to now accept the A380?
 
Baron52ta
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:01 am

[quote=Scotron11,reply=25]
No RR engines, no 748i for BA.


British Airways has today placed an order for 12 Airbus A380 and 24 Boeing 787
aircraft with options for a further seven Airbus A380s and18 Boeing 787s. Both
aircraft types will be powered by Rolls-Royce engines.
 
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Stitch
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:07 am

Personally, I don't put much stock in the "no Trent 1000 option means no BA 747-8I order" line...

I am sure Boeing asked large RB-211 operators like BA and SQ how important an RR option on the 747-8I was. And I imagine they didn't come back with "no Royce, no joy(ce)". I expect, at best, they shrugged their shoulders. Heck, RR might very well have asked the same question to their RB-211 customers and gotten the same, non-committal response which might have influenced RR to either not pursue the option or not fight GE hard for it.

So I imagine if Trent 1000s were a checkbox on the 748I option list, BA still would have ordered A388s, anyway.
 
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mariner
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:21 am

I agree with the financial anaylst who says it is a very "sensible order", and that BA may have received discounts up to 25% off list from both manufacterers:

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...C7E-1C8B-4C99-AEEA-1EADF2240AEB%7D

But I am puzzled by the sourness of some Boeing supporters. It seems to me that Boeing did extremely well out of the deal.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
JRDC930
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:39 am

Congrats to Airbus and boeing...but i think its afe to say after reading BA's statement that the 748-I did not impress them. Big blow to the passenger version of the 748... Sad
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
vv701
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:13 am

The Times newspaper is saying that "Mr Walsh said he hoped to have a dozen 787s and a couple of A380s by the time of the London Olympics [August 2012].":
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...ctors/transport/article2547100.ece
I am particularly surprised that BA has secured as many as 12 delivery positions on the 787 production line by that date. But it does say "hoped". But that could be a "hope" that there will be no in service delays.
 
RIX
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:27 am

Quoting StressGuy (Reply 271):
a clean sheet 777 replacement in the 350-425 passenger range that will enter into service in time to slow A350 sales.

But 350 is not in 350-425 seats range. It's much cheaper and practical to go ahead with 78A/B, even making new wing, than to get a monopoly in ~400 seats niche right as the one of 450 seats proved to be hardly on demand.

Quoting Addrenaline (Reply 274):
it will be A350... No question in my mind...

- no more "my money on Airbus" after no "Brand New technology" for BA today, just "no question"?  Wink
 
mikesbucky
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:39 am

This is my first post on A.Net so I figured I'd jump right in with about the most controversial issue out there, A vs B. I don't see this as a good day for Boeing at all (I'm a huge Boeing fan BTW). This may not kill the 748i, but it definitely is a major blow. I also don't see this as a good day for the 787. The fact that the only mentioned 787 for future orders is an aircraft that doesn't exist on more then paper is a strong sign that the A350 could win the follow-on order. A 787-10 would be a double stretch and these versions of aircraft are almost never a success (see 767-400, A340-600). While losing BA as a customer won't kill Boeing, as many (but not all) Airbus fans would love, it sure won't help the bottom line either.
 
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Stitch
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:24 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 280):
But I am puzzled by the sourness of some Boeing supporters. It seems to me that Boeing did extremely well out of the deal.

Didn't you know? Americans always root for the underdog, so when the 747-8I lost, we were all kind of bummed. Big grin

Seriously, a 12+9 frame 747-8I order with 26 A350-800s would have had the Airbus fans crying into their champagne, as well.  Wink
 
iwok
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:38 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 280):
But I am puzzled by the sourness of some Boeing supporters. It seems to me that Boeing did extremely well out of the deal.

Well said Mariner. I personally see this as a win-win deal for both. Boeing has clearly further established itself as the leader in twin aisle market, and Airbus finally gets an desparately needed strong and powerful injection of support for its VLA, the A380. This is really the first credible order for the 380 in the last two years, so I suspect that the guys in Toulouse are just as happy has those in Chicago.  yes 

iwok
 
TruemanQLD
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:47 pm

Very Good for BA. I always thought they would suit the A380... Could this be the start of more orders for the A380... say UA or JL?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:14 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 172):
P.S Thankfully there won't be anymore "Why BA no A380 threads !!

Not to worry. I am expecting a "Why BA no A380 YET?" thread any day now. Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:45 pm

Can someone tell me the count on A380 sales?

Maybe they will get even by 2010.....
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mariner
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:49 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 285):
Americans always root for the underdog,

I'm not sure that I would describe either Boeing or the 787 as the underdog.  Smile

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
AFGMEL
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:33 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 276):

Finally congratulations to both Airbus and Boeing. Interestingly A went the VLA route and then had second thoughts and also aped Boeing's Dreamliner but won the BA VLA order. Similarly B went the Dreamliner route and then had second thoughts and also aped Airbuses VLA but won the Dreamliner order. Perhaps they should both have stuck with their original decision

Fantastic post VV701. Nice to see such informed and well thought out posting without relying on flaming and emotion.

Back to the topic. Some people have mentioned this already but this news must change the whole game for CX and VS re A380. I wouldn't be surprised to see more Chinese interest soon.
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JRDC930
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:39 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 290):
I'm not sure that I would describe either Boeing or the 787 as the underdog

Certainly the 748i is an underdog;especially now that the biggest customer has rejected the 748 I.
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:48 pm

First of all,  champagne   champagne   champagne  to Airbus, Boeing and BA. Outstanding news for the A380.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 270):
It also does not mention A380s in the future plan.

So are you going to make the same claim regarding the future of the A380 at BA? That they will take between 12 and 19 A380s and no more, ever, because that one sentence doesn't mention the A380?

Nope. But every year that they don't order the 748I, the aircraft recedes into the storied past of all-aluminum airliners with control cables and pulleys coursing throughout their structure Big grin

The A380, on the other hand, has one or two prospects of further development (discussed extensively in past threads). It also has the prospect of sharing engines with the A350, which would have some interesting fleet commonality implications.

Can you see this big baby in British Airways colours?
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Quoting StressGuy (Reply 271):
the next 10 years will be very interesting in commercial aviation.

That statement has been true for the last century, and probably will be true for the next century  bigthumbsup 
 
abba
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:13 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 267):
I feel it will influence them towards the A380.

I think that is is the real and true win for the 380!

Abba
 
astuteman
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:13 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 167):
I think the 380 order is rather modest and shows that most airlines -- other than EK -- see limited use for such a large aircraft.

Or perhaps that BA aren't ready to order the whole fleet just yet.

Quoting Azhobo (Reply 243):
Did not figure the A380 order. So congrats to Airbus and fans. I really figured BA would go with the other dinosaur.

Puzzled - what was the first "dinosaur"?. The A380?

Quoting SpeckSpot (Reply 247):
Is there any reason to believe that BA is not being coy? As in, trying to get Boeing to offer a lower price on the 748i? Because so many good arguments were made for the 748i in BA's fleet that Boeing may have not offered deep cuts because they believed they had a good case

Or perhaps, unthinkably, the A380 is in fact a far better aircraft than we are permitted to believe on Airliners.net (anything beyond "dinosaur" or "give-away" being strictly off-limits, it seems..)

Quoting Stitch (Reply 261):
The 787-11 would be a 6m stretch of the 787-10 with a total length of 75m. It would have a cabin floor area between the A350-1000

That's only 1m more than the A350-1000. Wouldn't that make the floor area near-on identical?

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 281):
but i think its safe to say after reading BA's statement that the 748-I did not impress them

Maybe it did. It impresses me. IMO it's a superb aircraft  yes 
Perhaps, just perhaps, the qualities of the A380 impressed them even more  scratchchin 

Regards
 
JRDC930
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:21 pm

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 295):
Or perhaps, unthinkably, the A380 is in fact a far better aircraft than we are permitted to believe on Airliners.net (anything beyond "dinosaur" or "give-away" being strictly off-limits, it seems..)

Yes, people need to accept, the 748i was a creation of boeing; not an accurate anticipation of the market; the 380 fits the VLA market much better than the 748i which is barely a VLA.
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
BAOPS777
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:25 pm

I would say BA are unlikely to go for the A350. BA cabin crew on worldwide can only hold 3 licenses. So at the moment these are 747/767 and 777

The 787 will replace the 767, A380 the 747 and more than likely they will replace the remaining 747 with 777-300.

The training for a Worldwide fleet with a possible 5 different a/c will not happen. Due to cost more than anything. BA are streamlining there fleets Airbus for shorthaul and I reckon by 2020 the fleet will consist of A380/777 and 787 for Longhaul
 
BAOPS777
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:33 pm

I would say BA are unlikely to go for the A350. BA cabin crew on worldwide can only hold 3 licenses. So at the moment these are 747/767 and 777

The 787 will replace the 767, A380 the 747 and more than likely they will replace the remaining 747 with 777-300.

The training for a Worldwide fleet with a possible 5 different a/c will not happen. Due to cost more than anything. BA are streamlining there fleets Airbus for shorthaul and I reckon by 2020 the fleet will consist of A380/777 and 787 for Longhaul
 
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scbriml
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RE: BA Decides: 12 X A380 & 24 X B787

Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:02 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 279):
Personally, I don't put much stock in the "no Trent 1000 option means no BA 747-8I order" line...

While BA has shown a strong preference for RR over the years (the GE 777s are an oddity due more to the maintenance deal that BA signed with GE), I believe they would order a non-RR powered plane if it was the right one for their fleet. No question.
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