Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
sfuk
Topic Author
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:30 pm

LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:03 am

Just seen this on the BBC

Quote:
Every passenger will have their photograph taken and fingerprint scanned at passport control. Their fingerprint will be checked again at the gate before boarding.


"It's so we can make sure that the person who turns up at the gate is the same one who checked in," Mr Pearman says.


Let the debate begin.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7015785.stm

Stu

Edit. Spelling

[Edited 2007-09-27 19:04:44]
 
OHLHD
Posts: 2903
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:02 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:06 am

Quoting Sfuk (Thread starter):
Let the debate begin.

A very interesting move by the authorities. But is it really necessary? I hardly doubt.

It will cause huge queues and nothing more.

Another good reason to avoid LHR at any cost!  twocents 
 
jmy007
Posts: 547
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:18 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:25 am

If some one could clarify Passport Control on out bound flights from England. Are they random checks? Because I have flow out of the LHR and LGW many times back to the States (the last in 05) and have never encountered exit passport control. Though I have seen English exit stamps on a friends passport from a few years ago. Thanks!
Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
 
BA787
Posts: 2381
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:40 pm

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:33 am

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 1):

It shouldn't cause too many queues really, if the sensors are quick it will only take a few seconds, and given that T5 will be fantastic facilities wise, I think it means LHR will be good again, at least for BA anyway, and who really cares about anyone else Big grin

BA787
 
OHLHD
Posts: 2903
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:02 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 3):
and who really cares about anyone else

 Big grin So true. I am sure I will test just to say I was in Terminal 5.  Smile
 
sfuk
Topic Author
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:30 pm

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:38 am

Quoting Jmy007 (Reply 2):
If some one could clarify Passport Control on out bound flights from England. Are they random checks? Because I have flow out of the LHR and LGW many times back to the States (the last in 05) and have never encountered exit passport control. Though I have seen English exit stamps on a friends passport from a few years ago. Thanks!

The report says 'every passenger'. Last time i went through T3 there were passport checks just after security but I didn't see them stamping any foreign nationals passport (perhaps someone else could clarify??)

It'll be interesting to see if they bring this in at all terminals once they've been refurbished.

Stu
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:43 am

The article doesn't say whether they are deleted afterwards, or not. But I will definitively not give those people my fingerprints, no government has the right to own them, especially not a foreign one.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
OHLHD
Posts: 2903
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:02 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:44 am

Do you think we will have to look normal or can we grin stupidly Big grin
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:45 am

Quoting Sfuk (Reply 5):

Heathrow T3...the bane of the international traveller. Passengers transiting through the hell that is T3 only have to wait through a couple of hours of haranguing by the local security boffins whilst wading through discarded water bottles and duty free bags. They don't go through passport control.
What the...?
 
sandrozrh
Posts: 2419
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:19 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:45 am

Uhm, they already take your photo at LGW before going through security and check it at the gate.
 
trekster
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:53 am

This is not new news.
Has been talked about for a few months since it first came onto anet.

Will be good, and should speed things up a little i think
Where does the time go???
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3695
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:04 am

The departure lounge at T5 will be common to Domestic and International passengers. To control immigration all Domestic passengers only will be fingerprinted at the boarding pass control before entering the terminal, and again at the boarding gate.

[Edited 2007-09-27 20:28:49]
 
Rivet42
Posts: 608
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:26 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:38 am

Quoting Jmy007 (Reply 2):
If some one could clarify Passport Control on out bound flights from England. Are they random checks? Because I have flow out of the LHR and LGW many times back to the States (the last in 05) and have never encountered exit passport control. Though I have seen English exit stamps on a friends passport from a few years ago. Thanks!

All exit immigration checks at airports (not sure about ports) were scrapped by the government around 10 years ago in an astonishing moment of forward thinking. Since then we have absolutely no idea who has been leaving the country, nor with what documentation, as has been highlighted in the last couple of years due to high profile cases of suspected criminals/terrorists disappearing abroad.

Those controls are now being reinstated, althuogh the government, when announcing this earlier in the year, said it would take 18 months or more to do. Not sure why, maybe they 'sacked' all the original immigration (or should that be, er, emmigration?) officers, and now have to start from scratch. Presumably by the time T5 opens, those checks will be fully in place...

Riv'
I travel, therefore I am.
 
DavidT
Posts: 462
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:37 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 9):
Uhm, they already take your photo at LGW before going through security and check it at the gate.

This is done at Manchester T3 too, your pic is taken then a barcode is printed out and stuck to your boarding pass. Before entering the pier the barcode is then scanned, and your identity is verified. I think it was something to do with customs, as the terminal mixes domestic and int pax?
 
BCAL
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:51 am

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 1):
It will cause huge queues and nothing more.

Another good reason to avoid LHR at any cost!

Taking the photograph will be quicker than the desk clerk looking at your passport and/or inspecting the boarding pass when you enter the departures hall, taking the finger prints should not take any longer. With 14 security points at "North Security" in T5 and another 4 (or 6) at "South Security" (as seen on my visit to T5 on the trial today - more info in Trip Reports) it should not cause huge queues. BAA are already timing how long it takes to process the passengers, and there are another six months before T5 opens. If the procedures improve security, then I am all for it.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
Speedbird2155
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:44 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:53 am

The BBC has got it wrong. The biometric checks are in place only for domestic passengers in Terminal 5. International passengers will not undergo biometric checks. Similar checks are already in place for domestic flights in various forms at airports across the country.
 
jmy007
Posts: 547
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:18 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:05 am

Quoting Rivet42 (Reply 12):

All exit immigration checks at airports (not sure about ports) were scrapped by the government around 10 years ago in an astonishing moment of forward thinking. Since then we have absolutely no idea who has been leaving the country, nor with what documentation, as has been highlighted in the last couple of years due to high profile cases of suspected criminals/terrorists disappearing abroad.

Those controls are now being reinstated, althuogh the government, when announcing this earlier in the year, said it would take 18 months or more to do. Not sure why, maybe they 'sacked' all the original immigration (or should that be, er, emmigration?) officers, and now have to start from scratch. Presumably by the time T5 opens, those checks will be fully in place...

Ah, that makes sense. Thank you. Also, I have noticed that immigration officials in the UK, (well in LHR) no longer were uniforms, but rather street cloths. Has this changed back?
Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
 
AirNZ
Posts: 544
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:03 pm

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:16 am

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 15):
The biometric checks are in place only for domestic passengers in Terminal 5. International passengers will not undergo biometric checks

Can someone perhaps explain to me why only domestic pax are being fingerprinted, but not international? What exactly is the use of that?

Quoting Jmy007 (Reply 2):
Though I have seen English exit stamps on a friends passport

There's no such thing.
Flown:F27/TU134/Viscount/Trident/BAC111/727/737/747/757/767/777/300/310/320/321/330/340/DC9/DC10/Dash8/Shorts330/BAe146
 
hornetfan
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:56 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:22 am

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 17):
There's no such thing.

I have one in my passport for my last visit to the UK, as does my wife admitedly it was around 5 years ago.
 
jmy007
Posts: 547
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:18 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 17):
There's no such thing.

I have seen it. I am not in a position to get a picture, yet, but I can certainly find one. The say embarked on in and it is triangular in shape. Again, I am not say this is recent, but not in the distance past.
Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
 
OHLHD
Posts: 2903
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:02 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting BCAL (Reply 14):
Taking the photograph will be quicker than the desk clerk looking at your passport and/or inspecting the boarding pass when you enter the departures hall, taking the finger prints should not take any longer. With 14 security points at "North Security" in T5 and another 4 (or 6) at "South Security" (as seen on my visit to T5 on the trial today - more info in Trip Reports) it should not cause huge queues. BAA are already timing how long it takes to process the passengers, and there are another six months before T5 opens. If the procedures improve security, then I am all for it.

I work at an airport and travel a lot ( on stand-by Big grin damn LHR taxes are so high ) and seeing how stupid and clumsy people act, I cannot see any improvement, but I reserve the right to be corrected! If all these counters are manned I surely see no problem. An increase in security is good but it might get worse as well.

Recently in CDG I got my passport checked 5 times before flying to VIE! Took me 20min including security check. If this can be avoided I am very positive about it.

What if I do not want to have my fingerprints taken? Are there exceptions?
 
jmy007
Posts: 547
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:18 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:26 am

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 17):
There's no such thing.

I have seen it. I am not in a position to get a picture, yet, but I can certainly find one. The say embarked on in and it is triangular in shape. Again, I am not say this is recent, but not in the distance past.
Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
 
G-CIVP
Posts: 1562
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 6:38 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:35 am

Briefly - this will probably only apply to domestic passengers. Incidentially, Manchester had given up photographing domestic passengers when I was last there. As another aside, passport checks for outbound passengers were temporarily re-introduced after the 7/7 terrorist attacks in London.
 
sandrozrh
Posts: 2419
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:19 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting DavidT (Reply 13):

This is done at Manchester T3 too, your pic is taken then a barcode is printed out and stuck to your boarding pass. Before entering the pier the barcode is then scanned, and your identity is verified. I think it was something to do with customs, as the terminal mixes domestic and int pax?

Yeah that's right, the same procedure also applies for LGW.
 
G-CIVP
Posts: 1562
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 6:38 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:58 am

To re-iterate a point, Manchester have stopped taking photos for domestic passengers.
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:08 am

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 17):
There's no such thing.

I have a UK stamp in my passport...
What the...?
 
B747-4U3
Posts: 617
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:08 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:23 am

Quoting Sfuk (Thread starter):
"It's so we can make sure that the person who turns up at the gate is the same one who checked in,"

Well isn't that why they check your passport at check in and then again at the gate?

I travelled from LGW to Jersey a couple of years ago and my photograph was taken at security as to get to the domestic area you need to go through the international departure lounge. When you enter the domestic gate area they scan the barcode stuck onto your ticket and your picture re-appears on a computer. It does say that all information is destroyed within 24hrs.
 
star_world
Posts: 943
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2001 7:52 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:35 am

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 26):
Well isn't that why they check your passport at check in and then again at the gate?

No need to have your passport on a domestic flight though... as per one of the posts above this is a domestic check - the majority of passengers will be travelling internationally and will not be doing this.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25464
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:57 am

If they want to take finger prints so what . USA do it and everyone has gotten used to it . If someone doesn't want to have their finger print taken they can choose not to use the airport or not to visit the country concerned. If you have nothing to hide there is no problem.

Passport checks for ALL departing passengers should be routine. Anything suspicious in a passengers passport or movements should be entered into a computer and the passenger second screened. The UK's borders have been so lapse over the years that people walk in and out when they please with out detection. I like the idea of Biometric passports and visas also. Bio metric ID cards should also be brought in.

If it stops just one terrorist attack or reduces people that have no right to be in the country then its well worth it .

We live in a very different world these days and ignoring that fact is dangerous .
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:04 am

Quoting Sfuk (Thread starter):

"It's so we can make sure that the person who turns up at the gate is the same one who checked in," Mr Pearman says.

Is this really a problem? It seems to me that we have a solution in search of a problem.

Also, what if you have fingerprints that aren't readable? No flying for you? People get rejected from jobs for this reason (I remember a person was rejected as a teacher because his fingerprints were not defined enough).
 
Speedbird2155
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:44 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:25 pm

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 17):
Can someone perhaps explain to me why only domestic pax are being fingerprinted, but not international? What exactly is the use of that?

Simple, T5, like LGW has one integrated departures lounge, where both domestic and international passengers mix, unlike some other airports that have seperate departure lounges. Given that domestic passengers do not require passports for travel, the government requires some method of ensuring that those who travel domestically are indeed those that checked in and not just anyone who has walked off an international flight and not cleared UK immigration.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25464
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:32 pm

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 30):
Given that domestic passengers do not require passports for travel, the government requires some method of ensuring that those who travel domestically are indeed those that checked in and not just anyone who has walked off an international flight and not cleared UK immigration.

Do you not have to carry a photo ID on UK domestic flights??? I thought you had to have either a passport or drviving license with a photo in it???
 
kiwiandrew

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:39 pm

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 17):
Quoting Jmy007 (Reply 2):
Though I have seen English exit stamps on a friends passport

There's no such thing.



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 25):
Quoting AirNZ (Reply 17):
There's no such thing.

I have a UK stamp in my passport...

exactly - a UK stamp .... not an English one ... as AirNZ quite correctly said there is no such thing as an English stamp
 
worldrider
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:26 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:39 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 6):
The article doesn't say whether they are deleted afterwards, or not. But I will definitively not give those people my fingerprints, no government has the right to own them, especially not a foreign one.

deleted afterwards..don't count on it! welcome to Big Bro'

don't count on me neither.
 
bwaflyer
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:48 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:46 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 31):
Do you not have to carry a photo ID on UK domestic flights??? I thought you had to have either a passport or drviving license with a photo in it???

It's normally only the lo-cos that demand photo ID for domestic flights, but then only because they want to check that you are the ticketed passenger and aren't trying to avoid a name change fee! Certainly for BA (never flown bmi), no photo ID is required.
 
mutu
Posts: 504
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:04 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:06 pm

Quoting Worldrider (Reply 33):
Quoting Thorben (Reply 6):
The article doesn't say whether they are deleted afterwards, or not. But I will definitively not give those people my fingerprints, no government has the right to own them, especially not a foreign one.


deleted afterwards..don't count on it! welcome to Big Bro'

don't count on me neither.

SO I guess neither of you will be travelling to the USA or Japan (fingerprint and photo on entry being introduced) ? I think it is a process we can get used too and if it helps secure the terminal then so be it. I do recall BAA explaining that the terminal design did not separate domestic and international flights and I believe it is correct that this process is by the airport rather than a UK Immigration policy. BUt I fail to see how it can only apply to domestic passengers if it is to work.
 
babybus
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:07 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:11 pm

I know the last time I passed through LHR T1 about 4 weeks ago, I was offerred the option, by an immigration official, of using a new biometric machine for arrivng pax, instead of having my passport manually checked. I turned the offer down.

I'm not too happy to have this type of info stored. Next they'll be asking for a DNA sample.

Quoting Jmy007 (Reply 16):
Also, I have noticed that immigration officials in the UK, (well in LHR) no longer were uniforms, but rather street cloths. Has this changed back?

I thought they were going back into uniform...but I might be wrong.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
jmy007
Posts: 547
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:18 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:03 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 32):
exactly - a UK stamp .... not an English one ... as AirNZ quite correctly said there is no such thing as an English stamp

Yes, of course UK. It's a UK stamp, and there has been, in the past, a UK exit stamp.

[Edited 2007-09-28 20:04:03]
Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
 
AirNZ
Posts: 544
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:03 pm

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting Hornetfan (Reply 18):
I have one in my passport for my last visit to the UK, as does my wife admitedly it was around 5 years ago.

Sorry, let me clarify better. I was referring to the OP's description of 'English' exit stamps when I said no such thing......they are United Kingdom departure stamps (many erronously seem to think England and the UK are the same entity).
Flown:F27/TU134/Viscount/Trident/BAC111/727/737/747/757/767/777/300/310/320/321/330/340/DC9/DC10/Dash8/Shorts330/BAe146
 
AirNZ
Posts: 544
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:03 pm

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:11 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 25):
I have a UK stamp in my passport...

Quite correct....see my post 38
Flown:F27/TU134/Viscount/Trident/BAC111/727/737/747/757/767/777/300/310/320/321/330/340/DC9/DC10/Dash8/Shorts330/BAe146
 
AirNZ
Posts: 544
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:03 pm

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 30):
Simple, T5, like LGW has one integrated departures lounge, where both domestic and international passengers mix, unlike some other airports that have seperate departure lounges. Given that domestic passengers do not require passports for travel, the government requires some method of ensuring that those who travel domestically are indeed those that checked in and not just anyone who has walked off an international flight and not cleared UK immigration.

Ah right!! That makes sense now......guess I was looking at it from a broader perspective. Many thanks!
Flown:F27/TU134/Viscount/Trident/BAC111/727/737/747/757/767/777/300/310/320/321/330/340/DC9/DC10/Dash8/Shorts330/BAe146
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:27 am

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 30):

Simple, T5, like LGW has one integrated departures lounge, where both domestic and international passengers mix, unlike some other airports that have seperate departure lounges. Given that domestic passengers do not require passports for travel, the government requires some method of ensuring that those who travel domestically are indeed those that checked in and not just anyone who has walked off an international flight and not cleared UK immigration.

Wait a sec... arriving international pax will mix into the departure area before clearing immigration & customs? How does immigration know which pax to screen?

If it's just departing pax that mix, then who cares? Make the airlines enforce the ID/passport requirements. A lot of countries (the US comes to mind) penalize airlines that deliver pax w/o appropriate documents.
 
AAgent
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2001 11:41 pm

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:48 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 6):
The article doesn't say whether they are deleted afterwards, or not. But I will definitively not give those people my fingerprints, no government has the right to own them, especially not a foreign one.



Quoting OHLHD (Reply 20):
What if I do not want to have my fingerprints taken? Are there exceptions?



Quoting Babybus (Reply 36):
I know the last time I passed through LHR T1 about 4 weeks ago, I was offerred the option, by an immigration official, of using a new biometric machine for arrivng pax, instead of having my passport manually checked. I turned the offer down.

I'm not too happy to have this type of info stored. Next they'll be asking for a DNA sample.

What's all the fuss about fingerprints? If you're a criminal, a fingerprint scan could prove problematic. However, for the regular average Joe traveler with nothing to hide there's no problem. And...if it speed things up then by all means, install more fingerprinting stations and snap away with the cameras! For all those worried about their precious fingerprints, remember this...unless you perpetually wear thick gloves, you leave fingerprints on all sorts of items in all sorts of places practically all of the time. If "Big Brother" wants your fingerprints, "Big Brother" will get them, period. So smile for the camera, put your finger on the scanner and enjoy a speedier trip through the airport. Thank you for choosing LHR.

Say Cheese!

Best Regards,
AAgent
War Eagle!
 
Speedbird2155
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:44 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:58 am

Quoting Analog (Reply 41):
Wait a sec... arriving international pax will mix into the departure area before clearing immigration & customs? How does immigration know which pax to screen?

If it's just departing pax that mix, then who cares? Make the airlines enforce the ID/passport requirements. A lot of countries (the US comes to mind) penalize airlines that deliver pax w/o appropriate documents.

As stated many times in this thread.....there are no passport requirements for domestic passengers. Also, we are discussing the departures lounge....nothing to do with arriving passengers.
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:01 am

Quoting AAgent (Reply 42):
What's all the fuss about fingerprints? If you're a criminal, a fingerprint scan could prove problematic. However, for the regular average Joe traveler with nothing to hide there's no problem.

That logic can be extended to random searches of homes, cars, your person... I'm very suspicious of any "if you've got nothing to hide" argument. Whether or not one's fingerprints are a valid concern with regard to privacy, etc. they are something personal that has historically only been taken of criminals [& suspects, plus as part of criminal background checks for "critical" jobs]. I am not, as a rule, opposed to taking fingerprints from everybody, but this kind of expansion of a government's eyes should be looked upon with great skepticism. A flawed terminal design (mixing of pax) does not count as good reason.

Quoting AAgent (Reply 42):
So smile for the camera, put your finger on the scanner and enjoy a speedier trip through the airport. Thank you for choosing LHR.

The process could be made even speedier by eliminating the finger scanning and photography.
 
jimbobjoe
Posts: 465
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 2:04 pm

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 28):
USA do it and everyone has gotten used to it

You might believe that, but the data are showing strong decreases in tourism to the US, particularly from Western Europe.

The US-VISIT program undoubtedly has had a significant role to play in this decrease, which is nearly unfathomable considering how weak the dollar is.

The fact is, while you might be comfortable with it, many travelers all over the world are not comfortable with being, essentially, booked for arrest, upon entry to a country.

Does US-VISIT contribute to good security? Arguably not. Since there's been a decrease in civil liberty conscious but "low risk" Western European travelers the US has had to increase tourism from other countries--for instance, by reducing the barriers of entry to the visa waiver program. We are arguably trading low risk tourists for higher risks ones.
 
AAgent
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2001 11:41 pm

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:42 am

Quoting Analog (Reply 44):
That logic can be extended to random searches of homes, cars, your person... I'm very suspicious of any "if you've got nothing to hide" argument. Whether or not one's fingerprints are a valid concern with regard to privacy, etc. they are something personal that has historically only been taken of criminals [& suspects, plus as part of criminal background checks for "critical" jobs]. I am not, as a rule, opposed to taking fingerprints from everybody, but this kind of expansion of a government's eyes should be looked upon with great skepticism. A flawed terminal design (mixing of pax) does not count as good reason.

I don't really buy into the whole slippery slope kind of argument where you suggest "that logic can be extended to random searches of homes, cars, your person", etc. Conversely, I see it as a very clear cut issue. When entering or exiting any country, the people of that country have the right to know at least a few very important things about you. Are you a person with a clean or "good" history, or are you a verifiable "bad" person with an unsavory backlog of criminal activity. Therefore, an excellent first question would be... "Who are you?" Once identified and determined to be of no threat, fingerprint scanning and a photograph empower the airport personnel to confirm your identity quickly and assist you on your journey through the airport. Quite simple...and conspiracy free.

By the way, even Walt Disney World and Sea World use biometric scanning to identify annual pass holders. So it must be true, people can be scanned and still have a wonderful day!

Best Regards,
AAgent
War Eagle!
 
GCDEG
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:42 am

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:43 am

Quoting Babybus (Reply 36):
I thought they were going back into uniform...but I might be wrong.

Don't know about other UK airports but in GLA the immigration officers are now wearing uniforms not suits/jackets like they used to.

GCDEG

[Edited 2007-09-28 23:44:08]
The best thing invented - Winglets!
 
jimbobjoe
Posts: 465
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 2:04 pm

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:12 pm

Quoting AAgent (Reply 46):
Once identified and determined to be of no threat, fingerprint scanning and a photograph empower the airport personnel to confirm your identity quickly and assist you on your journey through the airport. Quite simple...and conspiracy free.

There's a lot of naivete regarding security issues, and I think this is one of those topics. Immigration documentation can be used for the purpose you state, but it doesn't scale worth a damn. The idea that we can separate good guys versus bad guys with passports, fingerprints and photographs is nearly criminally insane, particularly when you're talking about hundreds of millions of people (the quantity of people who cross national borders on a frequent basis.)

There's nothing that's more damaging to this country's security than a belief that a security set-up works when it really doesn't. The idea of using immigration documentation to separate good versus bad doesn't work in either theory or practice--the numbers are simply too big. It is, nevertheless, believed by many.

At least however, people have become less naive. I'm told the reason why passports became mandatory travel documents, during World War I, was to prevent espionage--apparently the thinking was that passports would keep out spies.

Well at least people aren't that dumb anymore.
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: LHR T5: Fingerprint & Pic All Departing Pax

Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:49 pm

Quoting AAgent (Reply 42):
What's all the fuss about fingerprints? If you're a criminal, a fingerprint scan could prove problematic. However, for the regular average Joe traveler with nothing to hide there's no problem. And...if it speed things up then by all means, install more fingerprinting stations and snap away with the cameras! For all those worried about their precious fingerprints, remember this...unless you perpetually wear thick gloves, you leave fingerprints on all sorts of items in all sorts of places practically all of the time. If "Big Brother" wants your fingerprints, "Big Brother" will get them, period. So smile for the camera, put your finger on the scanner and enjoy a speedier trip through the airport. Thank you for choosing LHR.

I am not a criminal, so they have no right to treat me that way. I know it is possible to get my fingerprints, but it should be illegal. Violation of privacy rights requires a certain based reason, and the fact that a person travels through LHR is certainly not reason enough.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos