Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:34 pm

Delta #1 to Latin America? On what planet?  rotfl 

It won't happen as long as Atlanta doesn't ring a bell in Latin America, as mentioned before, they will need to seriously enter South Florida, the reason is pretty simple: Miami is the de facto capital of Latin America. Also, keeping in mind their recent routes that were anything but stellar (Acapulco, Guatemala City, Managua,Merida, San Pedro de Sula).

Quoting STT757 (Reply 94):
DL's Latin American operation is unprofitable, while CO's is a strong profitable operation.

While, i don't know the economics of DL's Latin routes, flying a plethora od narrowbodies and regional jets with a sub-daily (most of the time, anyways) isn't going to make them king of Latin America.
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26524
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:35 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 96):
How many airplanes does AA leave sitting in S. America all day long, including in countries where there is no treaty that would stop them.

The only countries where there is nothing stopping them are Chile and Uraguay, which aren't exactly huge markets.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 96):
And AA didn't operate its winter daylight flights as long as DL did. So, is AA missing out on opportunities or did the Brazilian government make different rules for DL?

AA operated their winter daylights for the maximum allotted time that the INAC gave them, 01Dec through 31Jan. Delta, meanwhile, can't figure out a schedule for them and keep canceling them.
a.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:35 pm

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 87):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 85):
Your logic is in need of a major upgrade as well.

Someone needs a hug...or a Midol...

..whoa there buddy, I didn't make that quote..... taekwondo 

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 89):
how about facts..... instead of GUESSES as to how an airline does on a particular route or why it is cancelled. For years, people here were convinced AA made money on SJC-NRT yet AA said the route lost money for years when it announced its intention to cancel the route.

..show the proof where they were losing money "for years".....if they were losing money for "years", they would have pulled out of the route much earlier than October 2006.....

Quoting STT757 (Reply 94):

With DL trying to attain the #1 title from the US to Latin America, how much more losses will DL rack up?

....seems as if DL wants to be #1 from US to everywhere in the world...bring on Australia  stirthepot 
"Up the Irons!"
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:41 pm

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 98):
Is AV part of Sky Team?

No, just a codeshare-partner with DL.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 98):
With all this talk in the industry about aquisitions and such, is it possible for DL to buy a controlling share of AM which would definitely help their presence into Mexico, Centeral & South America?

DL could, but then again, any money DL has to invest, they'd rather invest that in new planes and slots at a certain British airport than buying into another airline.
 
User avatar
ERJ170
Posts: 5931
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:49 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 52):
http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10834



Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 53):
I believe they were already awarded. And all of the flights show up in the DL system.

the press announcement still says awaiting government approval
Aiming High and going far..
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14282
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:28 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 96):
oh but let me point out CO's persistently unprofitable domestic system and you get mighty defensive.

CO relies less on their Domestic network than any other US legacy carrier, which is why CO has been consistently profitable since becoming the first US carrier post 9-11 to post consecutive profitable quarters, the first US Legacy post 9-11 to break even for the year, and the first US carrier post 9-11 to report a yearly profit. CO's diversified route network is now being emulated by other carriers wishing to diversify their networks and pull capacity away from LCC competition.

To quote an airline analyst from Bloomberg, "CO has it right", with regards to their network balance between Domestic and International.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14282
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 96):
Problem with your argument is that deep S. America is exactly where AA and DL make their money; DOT data supports there is good money to be made there and that is what DL and AA have gone after. CO gave up alot of deep S. America and does better in central America. Notice how bad CO fought to get back into EZE? So let me get this right.... you say CO couldn't make EWR-EZE work six years ago but can make it work from IAH but DL can't possibly be making money today. Please tell me you aren't paid to argue

CO was awarded EWR-EZE, they gave it up so DL picked up the route authority and went on to take a bath in red ink on the route for a long time. CO chose not to fly the route and deploy their assets elsewhere, DL choose to fly the route and racked up huge losses. Yes the Argentina market is better now, but since it's inception I would be willing to bet dollars to donuts that DL is still in the red with that route.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
worldtraveler
Topic Author
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:57 pm

Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 97):
Where did he say they should throw in the towel? Please tell me you don't argue/debate for a living.

Just because he doesn't think they should expand as aggressively as you do doesn't mean he's thinks they should give up.

there is a certain sarcasm here which the internet misses... if only we could debate in person.

Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 97):
but if they're pulling losses down there right now, perhaps they should reevaluate and fix their current system to make a profit before they start expanding like mad. Or is slow, conservative growth "throwing in the towel" to you?

because DL has strategically decided it was worth incurring some losses in order to build their presence to Latin America. I'll remind you that of the 3 major regions for network carriers that lost money in 2Q07, DL lost far less money in Latin America than NW did in Asia. DL and NW lost the same 0.14 cents/ASM while CO's domestic losses were several times higher on an ASM basis. Because DL's Latin system is much smaller than NW's Pacific system or CO's domestic system, DL lost less in Latin America than CO or NW did in their loss-making regions.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 98):
I know AV rotates their 76Xs and 752s on this route.

DL will not stop its growth plans unless it has a true profit sharing partnership with a carrrier which they cannot or will not have with AV until the US and Colombia have open skies.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 99):
Two reasons: 1) lack of focus by United, and 2) intense focus by AA.

very good analysis. And it's also worth noting that the only truly competitive hub with 2 carriers in the US is ORD where there are schedule restrictions which prevent both parties from growing as they otherwise might. MIA didn't have those restrictions and AA was able to open routes and make them work while UA did not - and was pushed out.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 101):
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 96):
How many airplanes does AA leave sitting in S. America all day long, including in countries where there is no treaty that would stop them.

The only countries where there is nothing stopping them are Chile and Uraguay, which aren't exactly huge markets.

The size of the market is not material. AA does leave plenty of airplanes parked in S. America in many countries where they could fly them around the clock if they wanted to. But they could do that in the US, too.

The point is that arguing that an airline doesn't make money because they aren't flying airplanes around the clock is foolishness. If that were true, we should never expect to see a plane parked at a gate on the west coast overnight.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 101):
AA operated their winter daylights for the maximum allotted time that the INAC gave them, 01Dec through 31Jan. Delta, meanwhile, can't figure out a schedule for them and keep canceling them.

But DL operated its daily flight into February. So, did DL get a special dispensation or is AA missing an opportunity?

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 102):
..show the proof where they were losing money "for years".....



their execs said it when they cancelled the route. do a search on the topic.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 102):
bring on Australia

DL didn't say it intended to be #1 in every market. Like GE, DL knows you pick the battles you wish to fight in and you commit the resources to win. DL will incredibly add a presence in other regions like east Asia but they will fight to win in other regions, like the Middle East, Africa, and Europe... and Latin America.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 105):
To quote an airline analyst from Bloomberg, "CO has it right", with regards to their network balance between Domestic and International.

but they didn't come up with a better profit margin than UA, US, NW, or DL so it sounds to me like they don't have the balance quite right. Or is it perhaps that the analyst likes the PERCENTAGE of revenue CO gets from domestic vs. international but doesn't like it that CO can't make money domestically?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 106):
CO chose not to fly the route and deploy their assets elsewhere, DL choose to fly the route and racked up huge losses. Yes the Argentina market is better now, but since it's inception I would be willing to bet dollars to donuts that DL is still in the red with that route.

Again, DL stuck it out for strategic reasons and is reaping the benefits - it is #2 in deep S. America and has now passed CO in all of Latin America based on its announced winter schedules. CO has to play more conservatively in Latin America because they have to support their unprofitable domestic network - which represents half of their revenues. DL, which gets less than 10% of its total revenues from Latin America, can be alot more aggressive in Latin America because its other regions, including its much larger domestic system, does make money as evidenced by operating total operating profits/ASM.

What part of that would you like to argue with?
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14282
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:42 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 107):
Again, DL stuck it out for strategic reasons and is reaping the benefits - it is #2 in deep S. America and has now passed CO in all of Latin America based on its announced winter schedules.


DL #1 in losses to South America is not something to strive for, DL should concentrate on profitability.

[Edited 2007-09-30 03:12:20]
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
worldtraveler
Topic Author
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:22 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 108):
DL #1 in losses to South America is not something to strive for, DL should concentrate on profitability.

I say the same thing about CO domestically, and their domestic system represents a heck of a lot more revenue than DL's relatvely small Latin system. They have been unprofitable on their domestic system longer than any other airline. Something has GOT to give. Based on your advise, NW should have a serious soul searching since their core Pacific system has been riddled with losses for years. At least gotta give UA credit for putting an end to their losing streak in Latin America and to AA for putting its losing streak in the Pacific to an end as well.
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:43 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 81):
Im pretty sure that DL did operate ATL-GRU more than 7x weekly for a while. I recall being at ATL waiting to fly back to LAX and seeing a morning flight ready for departure to GRU.

In fact DL use to fly ATL-GRU 2x daily but just after they begin ATL-GIG their yields (and loads) went down and they decided 1 year later to move one flight to JFK.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
laca773
Posts: 2086
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:32 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 103):

DL could, but then again, any money DL has to invest, they'd rather invest that in new planes and slots at a certain British airport than buying into another airline.

Thanks for the information, DAL767400ER. I apreciate it. Would AV be a good strategic partner for SkyTeam in in South America? They are also doing pretty good on their BOG-LAX-BOG flgihts. Apparently they were going to increase frequencies to 5x per week.

LACA773
 
User avatar
OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4834
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:25 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 106):
CO was awarded EWR-EZE, they gave it up so DL picked up the route authority and went on to take a bath in red ink on the route for a long time. CO chose not to fly the route and deploy their assets elsewhere, DL choose to fly the route and racked up huge losses. Yes the Argentina market is better now, but since it's inception I would be willing to bet dollars to donuts that DL is still in the red with that route.


Incorrect! Both DL and CO were awarded new route authorities to EZE when they were made available by the Argentine government. DL won ATL-EZE and CO was awarded EWR-EZE (AA had applied for DFW-EZE and UA applied for LAX-EZE). DL went ahead with their flight while CO did not citing the troubled Argentine economy as a factor. As a result, the rights were re-allocated with DL requesting JFK-EZE and AA requesting DFW-EZE with the award eventually going to AA. DL never picked up any of CO's route authorities to EZE, AA did.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
Summa767
Posts: 1848
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:35 pm

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 111):
Thanks for the information, DAL767400ER. I apreciate it. Would AV be a good strategic partner for SkyTeam in in South America? They are also doing pretty good on their BOG-LAX-BOG flgihts. Apparently they were going to increase frequencies to 5x per week.

They are doing really well on LAX, so frequencies are going up to 4 x weekly, as that is all AV have been allowed for the moment, but as new frequencies have become available, AV are likely to increase LAX further.

DL codeshare with AV on all of their flights between Colombia and the US, and AV codeshares on DL's ATL-BOG. Some 170 flights weekly in total.
So AV could be a strategic partner for Skyteam, but they are unlikey to go in tha alliance, as their domestic competitor, Aeroepublica, is 100% owned by COPA, which is in Skyteam. AV would most benefit from an alliance with TACA for their presence in Central America and in Peru and beyond.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:08 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 107):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 102):
..show the proof where they were losing money "for years".....



their execs said it when they cancelled the route. do a search on the topic.

..that's the whole problem with the "do a search"...A.net's search engine isn't Google exactly... Wink

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 107):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 102):
bring on Australia

DL didn't say it intended to be #1 in every market. Like GE, DL knows you pick the battles you wish to fight in and you commit the resources to win. DL will incredibly add a presence in other regions like east Asia but they will fight to win in other regions, like the Middle East, Africa, and Europe... and Latin America.

..hence why I had the  stirthepot  icon.....I was being a bit sardonic.... Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2370
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:15 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 107):
DL will incredibly add a presence in other regions like east Asia but they will fight to win in other regions, like the Middle East, Africa, and Europe... and Latin America.

Blimey, will it be like the massive espansion at LAX......and all be on RJ's...wow, those are long sectors!
 Wink
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:18 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 36):
a solid #2

hehehe, "solid #2"  thumbsup 

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 92):
they'll need to get NRT slots

...not a problem for DL in particular.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 107):
the only truly competitive hub with 2 carriers in the US is ORD

toss in "Legacy" between "2" and "carriers" to make this statement accurate  Wink
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5052
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:43 am

I thought it has been rumored that alot of the LAX to latin american routes are not doing very well. price seems to be the only determining factor on many of these routes not non stop service. any truth to the rumors ive seen on a.net and from a delta emplyee who said he has heard bad things so far about the lax to latin american flights, most of them are loosing money
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:41 am

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 117):
most of them are loosing money

Probably true. Delta would jump on LAX-Latin America (and LAX-Asia) if it were easy to survive there. Fact is, Latin America is not so keen on the West Coast as it is on the East Coast (I'm talking Columbia, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Puerto Rico especially).

So LAX-Mexico might be good. But you don't see UA doing much, do you? Or AA. So if DL tries, they may succeed. Or not. But the West Coast thru LAX cannot match the East Coast thru MIA in terms of traffic, demand, and esp premium business traffic.

Especially with AA, CO already providing exceptional service to Latin America thru Texas hubs, including to LAX, plus the East and the Midwest. Why have a Latin American hub at LAX? It competes directly against IAH and DFW. I do not think a DL LAX Latin hub could survive. Only in the context of LAX as an Asian hub can a Latin feeder system build up strength there. And that's a colossal gamble for Delta to make.
 
worldtraveler
Topic Author
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:41 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 118):
Why have a Latin American hub at LAX? It competes directly against IAH and DFW.

The whole reason DL would start a LAX hub is because they want to siphon some of that traffic off of DFW and IAH; DL is not interested in leaving traffic on the table for CO an AA to carry if it thinks it can carry that traffic on DL.

I don't know what DL will do from LAX to either Latin America or Asia but they have been talking plenty about it. There is a market from California and alot of that traffic does flow over hubs in Texas but also over MIA and ATL.

DL doesn't need a huge amount of traffic to make LAX work. They aren't envisioning another MIA or even ATL; given that there is very little US carrier Latin-LAX traffic (more than none but not a whole lot), they don't have to develop it a whole lot to have something.

DL is also doing a lot of route development to Latin America right now. Every company has a limit on the amount of developmental business it does while maintaining a core group of proven markets that can be counted on to deliver solid revenues. Building out LAX probably can't be done until JFK gets built out to Latin America since that seems to be DL's current focus.

One final thing. ATL had no Latin America routes 15 years ago. None. And it now is one of the largest US gateways to Latin America. Building transportation systems is about tapping demand and creating new markets. It doesn't happen overnight but it certain does happen.

[Edited 2007-10-01 04:43:46]
 
incitatus
Posts: 3399
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:36 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 83):
DO tell us which routes were pulled for lack of aircraft (please provide proof).

None!

Was my comment so opaque? The reality is that routes are pulled for lack of profits. "Lack of aircraft" is an excuse so often bandied around, especially around here. You might even have made such comment about routes pulled by Delta in the past, who knows...
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:05 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 119):
One final thing. ATL had no Latin America routes 15 years ago. None. And it now is one of the largest US gateways to Latin America. Building transportation systems is about tapping demand and creating new markets. It doesn't happen overnight but it certain does happen.

Right, and there are good opportunities ahead, like JFK-GIG, flights to Brazilian Northeast, BSB, CNF, all markets that can sustain flights to US at current BRL/US$ rate (US$ 1 = BRL 1,82) and demand for international travel.

So there's space for DL to grow even more, as well as other airlines, subject to a new agreement Brazil-US (probably available very soon)

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 119):
One final thing. ATL had no Latin America routes 15 years ago. None. And it now is one of the largest US gateways to Latin America.

Good old Eastern had MEX and PTY out of ATL in the early 80's.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
COflyerBOS
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:04 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:03 am

Is Delta really bigger in Latin America than Continental?

On an average day, CO has about 135 departures to Mexico, Central America, South America, and the Caribbean. The IAH hub is quite large and it isn't just ERJs running to Mexican cities. BJX, CZM, GCM, GDL, GUA, GYE, ACA, BOG, CCS, EZE, CLO, CUN, TGU, MGA, LIM, LIR, MID, MEX, MBJ, POS, PTY, PVR, UIO, SAL, SJD, SJO, SJU, GRU, and SAP all see mainline service. Then you throw in EWR service to BQN, ANU, AUA, BOG, CUN, CCS, LIM, MEX, MBJ, NAS, PTY, PSE, POP, PUJ, SJD, SJO, SJU, STI, SDQ, GRU, SXM, and STT and I can't imagine that DL through ATL, JFK, SLC, and LAX reach those kind of service levels.

Does anyone know the actual ASM to the region on CO and DL?
 
worldtraveler
Topic Author
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:27 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 121):
subject to a new agreement Brazil-US (probably available very soon)

what is the basis for saying this? Any idea how far it will go.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 122):
Good old Eastern had MEX and PTY out of ATL in the early 80's.

You are correct... I should say DL in ATL.

Quoting COflyerBOS (Reply 123):
Is Delta really bigger in Latin America than Continental?

I believe currently, CO is a few percentage points larger but DL will likely pass CO by the end of the year based on their schedule for this winter.
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1142
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:45 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 68):
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 24):
You do realize also that DL lost a boat load of money on Song but it did succeed in finally getting solidly established in the NYC transcon market. DL is a solid competitor in those markets thanks to losing money on Song for a year and a half in the transcons.

Sorry, but Song has little to do with DL's success on the transcons. DL's performance on the transcons has improved because they offer far more connecting opportunities at JFK than ever before.



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 69):
I think it's primarily the decrease in UA capacity as mentioned and the general increase in fares. I don't think DL is connecting much over JFK, and even if it does, business travelers will book away from the delay prone mess that JFK is and connect over the much more reliable CVG or SLC, or even ATL.

 checkmark  I think the decrease in capacity had a lot to do with the improving yields. Conx Traffic probably helps a little with low yield tickets, but like Maverick said, the high yield ticket business traveler will look for another connecting point.

Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 88):
Ah, the first thing I ever learned on A.net:

Every route for every airline was/is wildly profitable, and was only axed due to (Choose any of the following: A - Lack of aircraft; B - Government regulations; C - 9/11; D - Developing a new focus city; E - Sold slots for cash).

 checkmark  Kudos, Love the summary!

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 95):
something 10 years ago with two dumb CEO and how DL can't take AA.....have you guys been on a AA 757?

DeltaL1011man, while you and I may think like that, most of America books on Price, Schedule and FF loyalties, granted some horrendous experience may keep someone away from a particular carrier from time to time, but by and large, people just want to get from A to B, irregardless of the equipment.

on a side note, any one wonder how much the "Song" concept contributed to the trip to Chapter 11? I personally wonder if since inception the routes have been profitable.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 109):
I say the same thing about CO domestically, and their domestic system represents a heck of a lot more revenue than DL's relatvely small Latin system. They have been unprofitable on their domestic system longer than any other airline.

I wouldn't rely to heavily on those numbers especially since the margin is so thin. It could be an accepted flaw in the accounting strategy, if you you think about it, a huge part of CO's network is long haul international. two methods that I've seen for calculating P&L on flts/markets are as follows:
1. Origination station is credited with the revenue for the o/w value of the ticket, connecting point is simply a cost of doing business
2. The Total distance is used to calculate the percentage of revenue for the flight. for example, a 200 dollar one way ticket over 2 500 mile flights, each embarkation point would receive credit for 1/2 of the value.

Personally, I'm not familiar with CO's internal accounting strategy, but if they use an approach like number 2, most of their domestic network is going to be short changed a little due to the higher volume of long haul international tickets...

ahh well.. Cheers all.
1.4mm and counting...
 
worldtraveler
Topic Author
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:09 am

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 125):
I think the decrease in capacity had a lot to do with the improving yields.

UA pulled the equivalent of less than 1 1/2 normally configured 757s.

The real reason the transcon markets have turned around is because the pricing is rational now thanks to the rationalized capacity. You'll recall that B6 realized they had too much capacity in the transcon markets so they pulled back and have raised fares. DL certainly is pricing its product more rationally (they realized that they oversimplified the pricing structure) but they also have far more share in the transcon markets than they did when Song was flying the markets - and they are certainly doing it profitably now. The only carrier in the transcon markets that has remained fairly constant in their strategy at JFK has been AA. There are too many moving parts from too many carriers to say that any one carrier was the reason for the turnaround by itself.

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 125):
DeltaL1011man, while you and I may think like that, most of America books on Price, Schedule and FF loyalties, granted some horrendous experience may keep someone away from a particular carrier from time to time, but by and large, people just want to get from A to B, irregardless of the equipment.

There actually are some pretty well documented cases of business traffic moving off of carriers that have had substandard service with the result that those airlines have had to invest in their product - which includes hiring more people. Just about every airline has pushed the service limit, delivered bad customer service, and has to add service back.

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 125):
I wouldn't rely to heavily on those numbers especially since the margin is so thin.

Airlines are audited just like any public company and there are accepted procedures for how revenues are prorated over multiple legs. Further, airlines decided years ago how to share revenue because in the early days of the industry, there were interline fares that allowed travel on two or more airlines.

It isn't an accounting fluke and if it were, DL or NW could say the same thing about their losses... and any critic could say the same thing about someone else's profits.
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1142
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:51 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 126):
UA pulled the equivalent of less than 1 1/2 normally configured 757s.

The real reason the transcon markets have turned around is because the pricing is rational now thanks to the rationalized capacity. You'll recall that B6 realized they had too much capacity in the transcon markets so they pulled back and have raised fares. DL certainly is pricing its product more rationally (they realized that they oversimplified the pricing structure) but they also have far more share in the transcon markets than they did when Song was flying the markets - and they are certainly doing it profitably now. The only carrier in the transcon markets that has remained fairly constant in their strategy at JFK has been AA. There are too many moving parts from too many carriers to say that any one carrier was the reason for the turnaround by itself.



Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 125):
I think



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 126):
There actually are some pretty well documented cases of business traffic moving off of carriers that have had substandard service with the result that those airlines have had to invest in their product - which includes hiring more people. Just about every airline has pushed the service limit, delivered bad customer service, and has to add service back.

Currently service is relative in the eyes of the beholder, personally I'd assert that DL is substandard in my eyes, but that's me, and you assert that DL is better because that's you. AA's RASM, and load factors suggest their doing just fine relative to the industry, there's nothing documented to suggest that any carrier is alienating their FF any more than another carrier...

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 126):
Airlines are audited just like any public company and there are accepted procedures for how revenues are prorated over multiple legs.

Yes, and the audit companies sign off that there are adequate controls in place, and the information that is reported is accurate. (VERY GENERAL)

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 126):
Further, airlines decided years ago how to share revenue because in the early days of the industry, there were interline fares that allowed travel on two or more airlines.

Those fares are straight forward, the Fare ladder spells out the revenue assigned to each carrier. This is simply a way at looking at revenues, as long as it's looked at consistently YoY or QoQ, it tells the story and can suggest the relative health of the company. Company v company might not be the same, the totals still come out the same, X for revenue X for Cost, just can lead to some slight variation in granular numbers.

Most conx fares currently are A to B Via, any city. The revenue isn't spelled out by segment when the customer purchases.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 126):
It isn't an accounting fluke and if it were, DL or NW could say the same thing about their losses... and any critic could say the same thing about someone else's profits.

losses are losses, the big numbers are always the same, senior managers sometimes have to bite the bullet and take the heat...
1.4mm and counting...
 
avek00
Posts: 3261
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:24 am

Must I be the only one who argues not from emotion-laden BS but rather with some facts?

Delta's August 2007 Latin America ASMs: 1,187,088,000, incl. DL Connection flying to LatAm

American's August 2007 Latin America ASMs: 2,525,147,000, NOT including American Eagle's LatAm flying

So no folks, Delta isn't even close to matching AA's LatAm presence - DL is about, say, several dozen widebodies away from doing so anytime soon.
Live life to the fullest.
 
worldtraveler
Topic Author
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:30 am

again, there are SPECIFIC guidelines that govern how revenue is split between segments on an itinerary regardless of whether the two flights are on one airline or two. Despite what alot of people think, there isn't a whole lot of opportunity to "fudge" revenue.

Costs, however, are not as structured as closely so it is possible for carriers to allocate costs between entitities or flights with more freedom, although they still have to be consistent (ie you can't allocate some costs to domestic at one hub but allocate the same costs to international in another hub).

I'm not going to get into an argument about who has substandard service or not. The point is that the perception of substandard service does result in passengers moving from one carrier to another. For you it might be Delta but evidence seems to suggest that other carriers are being more impacted now, although there is no doubt that DL had its bad service days.
 
Neo
Posts: 731
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 8:21 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:09 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 118):
Especially with AA, CO already providing exceptional service to Latin America thru Texas hubs

Exceptional service? You gotta be kidding me right!!!

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 121):
Right, and there are good opportunities ahead, like JFK-GIG, flights to Brazilian Northeast, BSB, CNF, all markets that can sustain flights to US at current BRL/US$ rate (US$ 1 = BRL 1,82) and demand for international travel.

So there's space for DL to grow even more, as well as other airlines, subject to a new agreement Brazil-US (probably available very soon)

Felipe, I would include LAX-GRU-GIG as well. The demand for West Coast - Brazil nonstop flights is bigger that ever, and going through DFW, IAH, MIA and even sometimes IAD is a big inconvinient for many that would rather fly it non-stop. I think UA, JJ are the logical candidates here, but lack of aircrafts and restrictions on the bi-lateral are cut backs here.

Rgs,

Neo
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6319
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:06 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 95):
If DL thinks and wants to be #1 good luck i think they can do it!



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 124):
I believe currently, CO is a few percentage points larger but DL will likely pass CO by the end of the year based on their schedule for this winter.

Which hub is bigger in terms of flights/destinations to Latin America, IAH or ATL?
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
worldtraveler
Topic Author
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:20 am

I'll try and come up with an answer for you... it's worth asking. DL definitely has the advantage to deep S. America but CO has a large presence from IAH to Central America.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14282
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:22 am

Quoting COflyerBOS (Reply 123):
Does anyone know the actual ASM to the region on CO and DL?

From CO's latest Quarterly Report:

Quote:
PRELIMINARY TRAFFIC RESULTS

SEPTEMBER 2007 2006 Change
REVENUE PASSENGER
MILES (000)
Domestic 3,448,145 3,300,487 4.5 Percent

International 3,097,052 2,813,233 10.1 Percent
Transatlantic 1,814,237 1,595,875 13.7 Percent
Latin America 671,055 613,867 9.3 Percent
Pacific 611,760 603,491 1.4 Percent

Mainline 6,545,197 6,113,720 7.1 Percent
Regional 743,920 790,974 -5.9 Percent
Consolidated 7,289,117 6,904,694 5.6 Percent

AVAILABLE SEAT
MILES (000)
Domestic 4,250,123 4,063,216 4.6 Percent

International 4,009,227 3,716,264 7.9 Percent
Transatlantic 2,303,334 2,027,996 13.6 Percent
Latin America 898,551 881,362 2.0 Percent
Pacific 807,342 806,906 0.1 Percent

Mainline 8,259,350 7,779,480 6.2 Percent
Regional 972,315 1,055,252 -7.9 Percent
Consolidated 9,231,665 8,834,732 4.5 Percent

PASSENGER LOAD FACTOR
Domestic 81.1 Percent 81.2 Percent -0.1 Points

International 77.2 Percent 75.7 Percent 1.5 Points
Transatlantic 78.8 Percent 78.7 Percent 0.1 Points
Latin America 74.7 Percent 69.6 Percent 5.1 Points
Pacific 75.8 Percent 74.8 Percent 1.0 Points

Mainline 79.2 Percent 78.6 Percent 0.6 Points
Regional 76.5 Percent 75.0 Percent 1.5 Points
Consolidated 79.0 Percent 78.2 Percent 0.8 Points

ONBOARD PASSENGERS
Mainline 3,751,807 3,574,568 5.0 Percent
Regional 1,383,022 1,421,864 -2.7 Percent
Consolidated 5,134,829 4,996,432 2.8 Percent

CARGO REVENUE TON MILES (000)
Total 86,730 90,420 -4.1 Percent



PRELIMINARY TRAFFIC RESULTS

YEAR-TO-DATE 2007 2006 Change

REVENUE PASSENGER
MILES (000)
Domestic 34,292,570 32,456,079 5.7 Percent

International 29,746,500 27,503,339 8.2 Percent
Transatlantic 15,282,538 13,588,299 12.5 Percent
Latin America 8,672,677 8,275,059 4.8 Percent
Pacific 5,791,285 5,639,981 2.7 Percent

Mainline 64,039,070 59,959,418 6.8 Percent
Regional 7,456,823 7,782,641 -4.2 Percent
Consolidated 71,495,893 67,742,059 5.5 Percent

AVAILABLE SEAT MILES (000)
Domestic 40,646,585 38,716,240 5.0 Percent

International 37,045,627 34,961,179 6.0 Percent
Transatlantic 19,032,122 17,160,682 10.9 Percent
Latin America 10,654,600 10,464,229 1.8 Percent
Pacific 7,358,905 7,336,268 0.3 Percent

Mainline 77,692,212 73,677,419 5.4 Percent
Regional 9,495,368 9,958,862 -4.7 Percent
Consolidated 87,187,580 83,636,281 4.2 Percent

PASSENGER LOAD FACTOR
Domestic 84.4 Percent 83.8 Percent 0.6 Points

International 80.3 Percent 78.7 Percent 1.6 Points
Transatlantic 80.3 Percent 79.2 Percent 1.1 Points
Latin America 81.4 Percent 79.1 Percent 2.3 Points
Pacific 78.7 Percent 76.9 Percent 1.8 Points

Mainline 82.4 Percent 81.4 Percent 1.0 Points
Regional 78.5 Percent 78.1 Percent 0.4 Points
Consolidated 82.0 Percent 81.0 Percent 1.0 Points

ONBOARD PASSENGERS
Mainline 38,649,351 36,751,863 5.2 Percent
Regional 13,549,347 13,763,175 -1.6 Percent
Consolidated 52,198,698 50,515,038 3.3 Percent
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
worldtraveler
Topic Author
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:11 pm

Based on Jan 08 schedules, here are breakdowns for CO’s hub at IAH and DL’s hub at ATL for South America, Central America, and the Caribbean. Flights per week are shown followed by ASMs in millions.

CO at IAH – S. America – 106/59M, C. America – 256/50M, Caribbean – 57/17M
DL at ATL – S. America – 120/109M, C. America – 128/32M, Caribbean – 303/56M

Just for comparison, I through AA at MIA in the mix:

AA at MIA – S. America – 380/220M, C. America – 230/47M, Caribbean – 806/112M

So, AA’s hub at MIA is the uncontested leader by at least a 2 to 1 margin over DL at ATL in S. America and to the Caribbean. But CO has more flights and generates more ASMs to Central America than any other airline from any other hub.

In total Latin flights and capacity (not including Caribbean), DL at ATL is about 30% larger than CO at IAH because of DL’s larger S. American presence.

Ratios of carrier size are comparable for current schedules; obviously current schedules are smaller than they are during the peak period.
 
COflyerBOS
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:04 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:57 am

Do flights to Mexico not count as "Latin American" flying?

If so, bump up IAH's service numbers since CO serves ACA, AGU, CUN, CUU, CME, CZM, DGO, GDL, HUX, ZIH, BJX, ZLO, MZT, MID, MEX, LTO, LOV, MTY, MLM, OAX, PVR, PBC, QRO, SJD, SLW, SLP, TAM, TLC, TRC, VER, and VSA non-stop.
 
worldtraveler
Topic Author
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:56 pm

the stats I provided include Mexico in Latin America.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6319
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:57 pm

I did a break down of Destinations on CO at IAH and DL at ATL on Latin American Destinations (nonstop only and no Carribean destinations):

CO at IAH:

In South and Central America:
EZE, GRU, LIM, CLO, BOG, GYE, UIO, CCS, PTY, SJO, LIR, MGA, TGU, SAP, SAL, GUA, RTB, and BZE.

18 total

and to Mexico:
ACA, AGU, CUN, CUU, CME, CZM, DGO, GDL, HUX, ZIH, BJX, ZLO, MZT, MID, MEX, LTO, LOV, MTY, MLM, OAX, PVR, PBC, QRO, SJD, SLW, SLP, TAM, TLC, TRC, VER, and VSA.

31 total

DL at ATL:

GIG, GRU, EZE, SCL, LIM, GYE/UIO, BOG, PTY, LIR, SJO, MGA, SAP, TGU, SAL, GUA, and BZE.

17 total

and to Mexico:
MEX, GDL, MTY, BJX, PVR, CZM, CUN, ACA, and SJD.

9 total

That makes 49 Latin American Destinations for CO at IAH and 26 Latin American Destinations for DL at ATL. Im not sure about numbers of passenger carried, but IAH definately has ATL beat interms of destinations served in Latin America.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
belizexp
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:56 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 137):
TGU

DL don't fly to TGU you must mean RTB I also saw that CCS was missing from your list.
Belize my home sweet home...
 
worldtraveler
Topic Author
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:36 pm

The general theme seems to be that CO has the advantage in the number of flights it has from IAH to central America while DL has more service to South America and the Caribbean and uses larger aircraft, thus has higher capacity.

It's also worth noting that DL's central America network has some obvious holes than could be filled by the addition of the 737-700. In addition, DL is chomping at the bit to get more access to Brazil.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26524
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:07 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 139):

It's also worth noting that DL's central America network has some obvious holes than could be filled by the addition of the 737-700.

There are only ten significant airports in Central America, and DL serves nine of them, all but Tegucigalpa. And seeing how poorly San Pedro Sula is doing, I don't think they will be in a rush to go there. There could be some markets added from gateways outside of ATL, though, if that's what you meant.
a.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14282
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:39 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 139):
The general theme seems to be that CO has the advantage in the number of flights it has from IAH to central America

CO has stated their intentions of having a third bank of departures to Central America from IAH, plenty of 737-800s and 737-900ERs coming onboard, look for more mainline growth from IAH to Central and South America in the next year or two. Also look for CO to fly more 757-300s South of the border from IAH as the 757-200s are rotated back to EWR, Lima and Guatemala City are the first.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
worldtraveler
Topic Author
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 140):
And seeing how poorly San Pedro Sula is doing,

and the evidence you have for this assertion is....?

STT,
While these moves by CO would certainly help them, DL is adding flights from JFK which are much further and thus generate more ASMs in addition to continuing to develop long-haul flights to deep S. America. While CO does need to and certainly can expand in Latin America, it looks like DL has enough of a lead and is growing far faster that CO won't be able to reclaim the position of number 2 in Latin America.

And while it might not be what you want to hear, DL does have the most expansive route system of any airline in the world as measured by route miles flown and their extensive long-haul growth doesn't appear to allow much room for anyone else to catch up. AA is the closest #2 to DL and they are not growing at anywhere near the pace DL is.
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 142):
And while it might not be what you want to hear, DL does have the most expansive route system of any airline in the world as measured by route miles flown and their extensive long-haul growth doesn't appear to allow much room for anyone else to catch up. AA is the closest #2 to DL and they are not growing at anywhere near the pace DL is.

And CO serves more cities around the world, which is something you don't want to hear. Same thing for the fact DL just got hit bad for on time and in-service performance. More things you don't want to hear....


Ciao,
AWACS
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:57 am

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 143):
And CO serves more cities around the world, which is something you don't want to hear. Same thing for the fact DL just got hit bad for on time and in-service performance. More things you don't want to hear....

And AA carries - by far - the most international passengers of any U.S. airline. And the hits just keep on coming.

Delta could keep growing international passenger levels 10% for the next five years and still not carry more than 1 million fewer international passengers per year than AA. (And that, of course, assumes that AA doesn't grow at all in international markets.)

So, I guess the moral of the story is that AA, Continental and Delta are all huge internationally - definitely the three front runners in the U.S. - and each can lay claim to a different title in the international air traffic crown - ASMs, passengers, destinations.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14282
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:47 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 142):
While these moves by CO would certainly help them, DL is adding flights from JFK which are much further and thus generate more ASMs in addition to continuing to develop long-haul flights to deep S. America

CO has been flying from EWR to Latin America for years:

Bogota, Caracas, Lima, Guatemala City, San Jose, Panama City, San Salvador, Sao Paulo etc..

With some more to be announced..
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
worldtraveler
Topic Author
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:20 pm

See, unlike some of you, I have no problems hearng what the competition is doing but I can also find plenty of statistics that DL is doing as good as or better job than the other airlines.

As for number of cities served, CO does serve more international destinations but DL and Delta Connection serves more cities worldwide than any other airline.

As for on-time, DL has taken its hits this summer because of its NYC operation but so have other carriers. And AA's on-time substantially lagged DL's. And I am also fully aware that ASA, which flies exclusively for DL, has THE WORST on-time record in the industry. Facts are facts.

I'm also aware that AA carries more int'l passengers due to its huge Latin network.

I wouldn't say that AA, CO, and DL have a corner on the US int'l market either. NW and UA both have sizeable operations and US is trying to gain some critical mass.

The beauty of the USA is that we have 6 airlines that all have sizeable international operations.

DL's primary claim to fame is its position as the largest airline across the Atlantic - including European carriers, its position as serving the most cities worldwide, and its position of having the most expansive route network of any airline worldwide.

I strongly encourage you to know and be proud of the accomplishments of each carrier. I happened to do the research on network expansiveness and was able to add another accolade that no other airline uses, although there was a time when airlines did measure the amount of route miles they flew.

I also fully expect that the growth in Latin America will come from AA, CO, and DL with some growth from UA if you believe some of what you have read about their desire for more access to Brazil. For now, though DL is growing the fastest in Latin America and in terms of growth rate, no one else appears to have the intentions to grow as fast as DL is.
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1142
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:45 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 146):
I can also find plenty of statistics that DL is doing as good as or better job than the other airlines.

Stats are all about the story you want to tell...

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 129):
again, there are SPECIFIC guidelines that govern how revenue is split between segments on an itinerary regardless of whether the two flights are on one airline or two. Despite what alot of people think, there isn't a whole lot of opportunity to "fudge" revenue.

Cite please...
1.4mm and counting...
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:17 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 140):
seeing how poorly San Pedro Sula is doing,

if that's the case, why do you think that is?

I just find it interesting... seeing as MSY, an airport lacking service to even CUN; was able to support nonstops to SAP for nearly 60yrs, with no feed, no codeshare. Why does ATL, the definition of "hub", struggle?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26524
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: DL Exec - We Want To Be #1 In Latin America

Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:55 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 148):
if that's the case, why do you think that is?

I just find it interesting... seeing as MSY, an airport lacking service to even CUN; was able to support nonstops to SAP for nearly 60yrs, with no feed, no codeshare. Why does ATL, the definition of "hub", struggle?

The market between the United States and Honduras is small and concentrated. The traffic is going primarily to Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Louisiana, Houston, and New York City.
a.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos