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dfw-man
Topic Author
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 1999 5:19 am

MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:55 am

Simply put
1999 MIA operations 536,000
2006 MIA operations 400,000

American could add 200 daily flights tommorow and it still would not get to 1999 numbers.Can we please get a competing airline to jumpstart this massive airport with way to many empty gates (E,F,G,H)
 
DeltaAVL
Posts: 1527
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:15 pm

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:00 am

Cough.....cough..... Allegiant?
 
graphic
Posts: 1293
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:41 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:05 am

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 1):
Cough.....cough..... Allegiant?

Not with SFB.
 
dfw-man
Topic Author
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 1999 5:19 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:17 am

I need to talk to my people in Miami and find out more but it struck me with most other U.S airports seeing record numbers now a days.
 
itsnotfinals
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:51 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:28 am

Quoting Dfw-man (Thread starter):
Simply put
1999 MIA operations 536,000
2006 MIA operations 400,000

what is the reason for the big drop?
 
PITrules
Posts: 2109
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2000 11:27 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting Dfw-man (Thread starter):
Simply put
1999 MIA operations 536,000
2006 MIA operations 400,000

536,000 in 1999 with three runways, and now 400,000 with four. MIA is definitely the uncongested, growth potential airport of south FL. Who would have thought 10-15 years ago?

However, I believe total passenger numbers are closer to what they once were.

It is only a matter of time before JetBlue or VA opens a major operation here. Sure, fees are high, but that doesn't stop them in JFK, SFO, etc.

[Edited 2007-09-29 22:44:03]
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1660
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting Graphic (Reply 2):
Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 1):
Cough.....cough..... Allegiant?

Not with SFB.

Especially with the new FLL focus city. I was hoping they'd go MIA instead of FLL, but, it just didn't happen.
 
OB1504
Posts: 4016
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:51 am

Quoting Graphic (Reply 2):
Not with SFB.

FLL more so than SFB. Besides, is Allegiant the type of airline that generally stays away from the larger airports? Of course, they would get a hefty incentive package if they were to start MIA service.
 
mia
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:40 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:14 am

I think it has to do also with the unfavorable costs of working in Miami and Miami-Dade County; and the consolidation of AA as the evermore major airline in Latin America.

I would also venture a guess that dwindling tourism to the MIA area because of visa requirements, high costs (for Europeans and Americans).
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26701
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:20 am

Tourism is at record levels. Flight operations are down but traffic is close to being at record levels. It is because of the switch from smaller to larger planes. A lot less regional flights than there used to be. Also nearby Fort Laudedale is one of the twenty five busiest airports in the US and handles most domestic traffic. This thread is pointless without pointing out that passenger numbers and flight operations are two different things.
 
dfw-man
Topic Author
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 1999 5:19 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:28 am

I should have made the distinction but losing 136,000 take offs and landings can not help an airport when it bases part of its revenue in take offs and landings even though the airport is seeing the same amount of passengers or do the passenger numbers offset the drop.
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1660
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:45 am

Quoting Dfw-man (Reply 10):
I should have made the distinction but losing 136,000 take offs and landings can not help an airport when it bases part of its revenue in take offs and landings even though the airport is seeing the same amount of passengers or do the passenger numbers offset the drop.

Remember, though, that landing fees are based on weight and are not a flat rate per arrival. So that has some effect.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
This thread is pointless without pointing out that passenger numbers and flight operations are two different things.

Not quite, though. I was very interested to learn of MIA's lack of congestion and how it has free capacity available. It makes me even more sure that Virgin America can go up against AA there.

In fact, Virgin America is shaping up to be an AA rival across all premium markets inside the USA. ORD will be another piece of that.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26701
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:01 am

Passenger fees at MIA are per passenger and by weight so less landings doesn't matter. 2008 will probably be a record year for MIA thanks to one airline that is likely to arrive soon, Virgin America, and the AA bloodbath that will follow.
 
OB1504
Posts: 4016
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:11 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Passenger fees at MIA are per passenger and by weight so less landings doesn't matter. 2008 will probably be a record year for MIA thanks to one airline that is likely to arrive soon, Virgin America, and the AA bloodbath that will follow.

Are they starting some sort of hub-type operation here? Or can two routes really do that?
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:16 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 14):
Are they starting some sort of hub-type operation here? Or can two routes really do that?

IMO if we are right about this, Virgin America probably wants MIA-JFK, MIA-BOS, MIA-LAX, MIA-SFO, MIA-ORD, MIA-LAS, possibly MIA-IAD. Not for hubbing, but for WN-style point to point, with luxury service to premium markets.
 
dfw-man
Topic Author
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 1999 5:19 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:28 am

SLC,MCO,IAH,LAS,MSP,DTW,CLT,MEM,DEN,JFK most of these airports are on par with MIA and they are booming while MIA is on the cusp of being out of the top 25 or 30 in the U.S in terms of take offs and landings.Passengers are nice but I would rather see more acitivity plane wise down here especially considering all thats being built.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26701
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:51 am

dfw man, you really have to check your facts before just saying random numbers. Traffic at MIA was up 4.9% last year while MCO, for example, was up 1.5%.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15202
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:47 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 12):
In fact, Virgin America is shaping up to be an AA rival across all premium markets inside the USA. ORD will be another piece of that.

with 8 premium seats per plane? 3 flights a day? not sure how that math works.
 
gsosbee
Posts: 365
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:40 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:31 pm

I believe MIA's reputation for not being a user friendly airport is what is hurting them. Most domestic US people with any knowledge of MIA and the surrounding area will avoid MIA at all costs. FLL is 20 minutes north of MIA is a very easy airport to get into and out of.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15202
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting Gsosbee (Reply 19):
I believe MIA's reputation for not being a user friendly airport is what is hurting them.

Yep. My whole family who lives in Florida now, tries to avoid Miami if we can. I just flew in there recently and was reminded why. It's poorly laid out, it kind of smells, at 8pm it seemed like it was closed (in the AA terminal I arrived into), the baggage claim was screwed up, and the rental car facilities are located in a dark swampy area that seems unsafe at night.
 
WestJetYQQ
Posts: 2763
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:31 pm

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:51 am

WestJet! Add another FL destination. Cough.  Smile
 
LVTMB
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:18 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:34 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
2008 will probably be a record year for MIA thanks to one airline that is likely to arrive soon, Virgin America, and the AA bloodbath that will follow.

Great! That means there will be more MIA-SFO flights on top of the sole always-packed daily 3 AA runs.

MB
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:44 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):
Yep. My whole family who lives in Florida now, tries to avoid Miami if we can.

Yup. I've travelled to Florida every year I've been alive, and MIA has always been the airport you try to avoid, for whatever reason. I personally don't know why though...It's not bad really...Sure FLL is a lot nicer though.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):
and the rental car facilities are located in a dark swampy area that seems unsafe at night.

 checkmark  This is true...Renting a car in FLL is SO easy now that they have one central facility, especially if you are flying B6/WN/CO/NW into the terminal attached to it!
 
flymia
Posts: 7137
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:26 am

Quoting Gsosbee (Reply 19):
I believe MIA's reputation for not being a user friendly airport is what is hurting them. Most domestic US people with any knowledge of MIA and the surrounding area will avoid MIA at all costs. FLL is 20 minutes north of MIA is a very easy airport to get into and out of.

Besides for the car rental situation and it always seems to take a little bit longer to get your bags at MIA. I think MIA is a much easier airport than FLL especially if you are going to the Greater Miami/Miami Beach/Coral Gables area. Since MIA is only 7 miles from Downtown Miami and 10 from Miami Beach. From FLL it will take at least 30minutes to get to Downtown Miami and at certain times of the day it could take up to an hour. FLL experiences many more air traffic delays also. As long as MIA is you final destination I dont see why its so bad. Granted I never needed to connect in MIA since I live in Miami so I dont know how that goes but for the O/D standpoint I have never seen a problem with using MIA and I dont really know anyone that lives in the Miami/Miami Beach area or Southern Miami area that uses FLL instead of MIA unless they are flying WN or Jet Blue.
 
OB1504
Posts: 4016
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 24):
I think MIA is a much easier airport than FLL especially if you are going to the Greater Miami/Miami Beach/Coral Gables area. Since MIA is only 7 miles from Downtown Miami and 10 from Miami Beach. From FLL it will take at least 30minutes to get to Downtown Miami and at certain times of the day it could take up to an hour. FLL experiences many more air traffic delays also. As long as MIA is you final destination I dont see why its so bad. Granted I never needed to connect in MIA since I live in Miami so I dont know how that goes but for the O/D standpoint I have never seen a problem with using MIA and I dont really know anyone that lives in the Miami/Miami Beach area or Southern Miami area that uses FLL instead of MIA unless they are flying WN or Jet Blue.

Agreed. Often times, stories about "horrors" experienced at MIA are blown way out of proportion. MIA is the airport of choice for most people in Miami-Dade County, especially for those living in the rapidly-expanding southern portion of the county.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15202
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:08 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 25):
MIA is the airport of choice for most people in Miami-Dade County, especially for those living in the rapidly-expanding southern portion of the county.

MIA is the airport of "no choice" for most people in Dade County, especially for those living in the rapidly-expanding southern portion.

For those with a choice, they choose other airports.

When my family lived in Key West, I used to connect in MIA a lot. I've also stayed overnight at the hotel, and done O&D there a lot. It's just not a great airport.

Compare it to other large Florida airports like TPA and MCO and they are far superior, and even smaller airports like PBI and FLL offer an overall better experience.

As for the speed of baggage coming out, that seems to be a problem throughout florida. I really don't know why. And if you have a "premium" tag, expect your bags to come out last.  Wink
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26701
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:08 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 26):

For those with a choice, they choose other airports.

I lived in downtown Miami, where FLL wasn't that much of a hassle, and I would always choose MIA, even if the fare was slightly hire. I'm in the minority, but I prefer MIA to FLL, and I know many others that do. It is a much easier airport to use, less congested, shorter security lines, faster customs, and more concessions. I think that people are starting to like MIA a little bit more lately. Domestic O&D traffic at MIA has soared 23% in the past two years.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 23):

checkmark This is true...Renting a car in FLL is SO easy now that they have one central facility, especially if you are flying B6/WN/CO/NW into the terminal attached to it!

MIA is building a rental car facility. I think it goes vertical in November or December.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 14):
Are they starting some sort of hub-type operation here? Or can two routes really do that?

I think you will see JFK, LAX, and SFO flights. They could probably add about 10x daily flights. AA would match. It would bring lower fares. jetBlue might follow. There can be a "Virgin America" effect. We have already seen it in SFO.
 
standby87
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 2:33 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:47 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):
the rental car facilities are located in a dark swampy area that seems unsafe at night.

LOL! Yes, it is a tad sphincter-twitching isn't it? Like parts of Newark, that area reminds me of the police station surroundings in the John Carpenter cult film "Assault on Precinct 13"

Miami is definitely not my favourite airport, but it does have a certain character to it: for a European it really is just as the adverts proclaim: "The Gateway to South America". I have to speak Spanish, because no one can understanding my English!
 
B752OS
Posts: 1346
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:10 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Tourism is at record levels. Flight operations are down but traffic is close to being at record levels. It is because of the switch from smaller to larger planes. A lot less regional flights than there used to be. Also nearby Fort Laudedale is one of the twenty five busiest airports in the US and handles most domestic traffic. This thread is pointless without pointing out that passenger numbers and flight operations are two different things.

I agree, pax numbers and traffic movements are 2 different things and it should be pointed out. Just because there anre't as many flights, does not mean an airport is as busy. Sure MIA may have less flights, but as you mentioned, pax numbers are. So while the runways and gatespace might not be strained, the terminals and facilites are busy. BOS is another example of a decrease in traffic numbers, but an increase in pax numbers.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 15):
IMO if we are right about this, Virgin America probably wants MIA-JFK, MIA-BOS, MIA-LAX, MIA-SFO, MIA-ORD, MIA-LAS, possibly MIA-IAD. Not for hubbing, but for WN-style point to point, with luxury service to premium markets.

Well considering the small network VX currently has, a network as large as you propse would make it seem as if MIA was a hub for them. In markets like MIA-JFK, they would have to offer at least 5-6 daily flights to remain competitive against AA and B6 out of FLL.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26701
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:26 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 29):
Sure MIA may have less flights, but as you mentioned, pax numbers are. So while the runways and gatespace might not be strained, the terminals and facilites are busy. BOS is another example of a decrease in traffic numbers, but an increase in pax numbers.

And a lot of it in MIA is due to a American Eagle. For example, in 1999, all of AA's MIA-TPA flights where operated with Saabs and ATRs sitting between 30 and 42 people. With eleven daily flights, they offered approximately 770 daily seats both-ways, and that route accounted for approximately 8,030 annual landings/take-offs. Today, they only operate five daily Miami-Tampa flights, all with 737-800s. That accounts for only 3,650 annual operations, but offers more than double the amount of daily seats. The difference is even more substational on the Miami-Orlando route. It went from 12 daily flights, all but one operated with 30-42 seat prop planes, to six daily flights, three of which are operated by 266-seat, widebody A300 aircraft (those three flights alone represent more capacity than all the 11 daily prop planes did in 1999).

Quoting B752OS (Reply 29):
Well considering the small network VX currently has, a network as large as you propse would make it seem as if MIA was a hub for them. In markets like MIA-JFK, they would have to offer at least 5-6 daily flights to remain competitive against AA and B6 out of FLL.

They only need three daily flights to be competitive in MIA-JFK.
 
sflaflight
Posts: 494
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:33 pm

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:06 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):
the rental car facilities are located in a dark swampy area that seems unsafe at night.

Uhh? Swampy area. where u at? Try about 20 miles west before you hit swamp. As for unsafe, I work overnight and in that neighborhood and feel much safer there than where I live in Fort Lauderdale. There is always police going around. The seedy part might be the Greyhound station along 27 St at LeJeune, but apart from that it ain't dark, swampy or unsafe (or nothing worse than suburban Miami!  Wink
 
peteinmiami
Posts: 175
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:09 am

RE: MIA No Congestion Here

Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:39 am

I also prefer MIA to FLL, living in the Gables area is a hassle to have to take I-95 north for at least 30 to 45 minutes on a light traffic day and most of the time you can find fares equal or lower than the one offered by the so called "low-cost" team out of FLL. The only difference I found with FLL is that distances are longer in MIA and parking more expensive. Although you can find a remote parking 5 minutes away from the terminal with excellent facilities and 24 hour complimentary shuttle service for just 7 to 8 dollars a day and on top of that parking cost at FLL went up today 10-01-07. I also find better the shops and restaurants at MIA, besides the variety of airlines and airplanes, but that is just me, being an aviation freak.

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