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airbuske
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ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:41 am

Sorry fellow A.netters, I unknowingly broke some rules with my previous thread on the same topic  Sad .

Here is an excerpt of the official press release from ATR and it contains more detailed information than the previous article I posted. Hopefully I haven't broken any rules and this topic won't get taken down again.

"Compared to the current "-500 series", the main developments of the "-600 series" ATRs comprise:

New Avionics Suite:
The "-600 series" ATR aircraft will feature an enhanced cockpit, equipped with upgraded avionics instrumentation. This includes the latest and most accurate computing systems for navigation, recording, auto- pilot and communications. An outstanding flight deck  - Glass Cockpit - with 5 wide LCD screens will replace the current EFIS (Electronic Flight Instrumental System). In addition, a multi purpose computer (MPC) will further enhance Flight Safety and operational capabilities. The new avionics will also provide CAT III and RNP capabilities.  All these main improvements will provide advantages and performance improvements in terms of weight reduction, reliability, energy consumption and durability.

New engine:
The ATR 42-600s and ATR 72-600s will include the new PW 127 M as standard engine. This enhanced version of the ATR engine will allow an increased power rating for the ATR 72-600 that will provide improved performance for hot and high conditions.
Additional weight increase:
Compared to the current optional Design Weights, the new ATR 72-600 will have as standard an additional weight increase of 300 Kg on MTOW (Maximum Take Off Weight) and MZFW (Max Zero Fuel Weight), plus optional weight increases of an additional 200kg. This will improve the payload and performance to cope with increasing demands of passenger weights and baggage.

Cabin Comfort and LED technology:
The -600 series will include all the existing and future cabin improvements developed by ATR to provide the high level of comfort and low interior noise for which the existing -500 series is recognized.  It will also have the latest in Light Emitting Diode lighting inside the cabin, and this LED technology is also being incorporated both for external navigation and anti-collision lighting in order to further reduce costs and increase life span, while also upgrading the visibility of the aircraft. LED represents the lowest weight and energy consuming lighting technology, with a dramatically extended service life."

Full press release : http://www.atraircraft.com/public/at...press/releases-details.php?aid=796

Cheers.
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:13 am

Sounds good. Way to go ATR
 
gigneil
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:19 am

Given the scarred reputation of the Q400, I can't help but see this as a massively intelligent move.

Further, there is no current, modern 50 seater (except the ATR42-500). DHC customers had no option, as the Q300 and Q400 are very different planes. It will be nice for there to be a next-generation turboprop in that size class.

I'd suppose its too much to ask for a composite FBW plane from ATR at this point... I'm sure they want to capitalize on the bad press from the Q400 and get to market ASAP.

I really see value in turboprops, and I hope this takes off. Its also nice to see they offer freight mods for the whole family now and not just the first generation.

NS
 
DeltaAVL
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:38 am

Quoting Airbuske (Thread starter):
Cabin Comfort and LED technology:

They don't mention any kind of efforts to reduce cabin noise, which people often complain about after flying ATRs...
 
CRJ 900
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:18 am

Now Bombardier will hum and haw about what to do, just like they did with the C series when the EJETS came along. There is a revitalization of turboprops happening. When they developed the Q400s and all of the associated upgrades, they shoulda started looking at a new series of DASH8 to replace the 200/300 or at least offer some of those items as retrofit for older aircraft. Apparently, ATR is bringing an airplane to YHZ for some open house event. I HOPE Jazz takes a serious look at the airplane and has a good chat with ATR. I think the -600s would be an awesome replacement for our ancient DASH fleet.
 
ba319-131
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:29 am

Interesting news, nice so see ATR improving their planes.

I do see a future for turboprop aircraft, they will live longer than 50 seat regional jets, expecially as fuel prices continue to increase.

DHC have issues with the D84 right now, which I think is an excellent plane, but they need to get back in gear and think about the future of their DH8 program.

M
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BlueSky1976
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:07 pm

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 3):
They don't mention any kind of efforts to reduce cabin noise, which people often complain about after flying ATRs...

They addressed it with the introduction of the six-blade propeller on -500 series. It's a non-issue - unless you're flying the old -212s/-300s.
Proudly avoiding 737 MAX since 18.11.2020.
 
davidkunzVIE
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:11 pm

That's great news on the turboprop market!
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icna05e
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:24 pm

Indeed, those are great news. I just hope it won't hinder the main advantages of the initial design (price, weight, simplicity...) .

Does anybody knows if Alenia still has plans to buy EADS shares in ATR? If so would they keep the assembly in Toulouse? Now THAT would be a disaster here if they moved.
 
n710ps
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:16 pm

Sounds like they are really hitting for this Piedmont contract. I hope they fail though personally. Dashes can do way more no matter what way you cut it. Not to mention that the Dash has an APU on it. If I am not mistaken the ATR does not have this. The same for the Saab.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
r2rho
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:59 pm

Great news for turboprops!

With the advent of regional jets, turboprops were widely considered dead, a thing of the past. Now, ATR actually faces problems ramping up the production line to meet the unexpected demand, because nobody foresaw or could foresee this development. With rising fuel prices, turboprops may someday (not too far off) kick regional jets out of the market of 50 seats and below. However, there is still the perception among the general public that turboprops are old and obsolete, and it's better and safer to fly a jet. This belief has been fueled by the airlines themselves, in the way they promoted the jet versus the prop airplane. Now they need to promote the turboprop again if they want business customers on commuter flights feel just as well flying a turboprop than a jet. It won't be easy, but there are very good (economic) reasons to do so.

We'll be seeing ATRs for a long time yet...
 
CRJ 900
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:59 pm

APUs are an OPTION on the Dash,to be exact, we removed them from the aircraft that had them at Jazz. The ATR has a propeller brake on the right engine so why would u need an APU?....sounds good to me...and to be honest, the DASH always reminded me of a toy, cheap fittings and seats.... the ATRS we had at CRAL were great, alot better than the Dash.............the new ATRS are very nice and can hardly wait to see the new avionic package on the -600s.
 
flyorski
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:39 am

Great news for ATR! This is a very smart move now with the 8Q-400 having negative publicity. I really hope to see some in Lufthansa Regional (I am sure it will happen). Also more sales to the USA would be nice for ATR.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
Motorhussy
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:40 am

I hope they improve the way the overhead lockers open. They need to tilt and recess into the locker as they open as I've hit my head on the corner of one while exiting a flight.

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
n710ps
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:13 am

Quoting CRJ 900 (Reply 11):
APUs are an OPTION on the Dash,to be exact, we removed them from the aircraft that had them at Jazz. The ATR has a propeller brake on the right engine so why would u need an APU?....sounds good to me...and to be honest, the DASH always reminded me of a toy, cheap fittings and seats.... the ATRS we had at CRAL were great, alot better than the Dash.............the new ATRS are very nice and can hardly wait to see the new avionic package on the -600s.

I am unsure but I know that the Saab has a hydraluc prop brake system and in the US you cannot use it. The FAA will not certify it which led me to a simple conclusion without knowing for sure that it is probably illegal in the USA as well.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
workhorse
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:03 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 2):
I'd suppose its too much to ask for a composite FBW plane from ATR at this point...

That would be great!

I also think that it would be interesting to study the possibility of making and marketing a fast (Q400-like), FBW, composite turboprop with 5 across seating for 70-130 pax. Here, in Europe, there are loads of A319s and A320s which spend their life flying short 1-hour hops without ever getting to their cruise speed and altitude.

If Bombardier were smarter, intead of wasting money on C-series and CRJ1000, they would rather go in this direction.

[Edited 2007-10-04 03:05:02]
 
Danny
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:29 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 2):
I'd suppose its too much to ask for a composite FBW plane from ATR at this point...

They would be capable of doing that with EADS help but there is no economic sense. Fuel burn reduction thanks to composite usage would not outweight additional development and manufacturing cost.
 
DavidByrne
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:00 pm

Quoting Workhorse (Reply 15):
I also think that it would be interesting to study the possibility of making and marketing a fast (Q400-like), FBW, composite turboprop with 5 across seating for 70-130 pax. Here, in Europe, there are loads of A319s and A320s which spend their life flying short 1-hour hops without ever getting to their cruise speed and altitude.

How does Easyjet's proposed aircraft meet this particular market? Any discussion on that project from a major manufacturer?
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
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Devilfish
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:02 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 2):
Further, there is no current, modern 50 seater (except the ATR42-500). DHC customers had no option, as the Q300 and Q400 are very different planes. It will be nice for there to be a next-generation turboprop in that size class.

It was reported that Bombardier was mulling both a shortened 56-seat and stretched 90-seat versions of its Q400.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...pawn-new-family-of-turboprops.html

Quote:
"Buoyed by the resurgent turboprop market, Bombardier is considering a shortened 56- to 58-seat derivative of its 76-seat Q400 in conjunction with existing studies into a stretched 90-seat version dubbed the Q400X.

Although Bombardier is keen to stress that studies are 'at the first phase', Steve Ridolfi, president of its regional aircraft business, believes the Q400X could be the 'beginning of a new product line'
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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Devilfish
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:03 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 2):
Further, there is no current, modern 50 seater (except the ATR42-500). DHC customers had no option, as the Q300 and Q400 are very different planes. It will be nice for there to be a next-generation turboprop in that size class.

It was reported that Bombardier was mulling both a shortened 56-seat and stretched 90-seat versions of its Q400.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...pawn-new-family-of-turboprops.html

Quote:
"Buoyed by the resurgent turboprop market, Bombardier is considering a shortened 56- to 58-seat derivative of its 76-seat Q400 in conjunction with existing studies into a stretched 90-seat version dubbed the Q400X.

Although Bombardier is keen to stress that studies are 'at the first phase', Steve Ridolfi, president of its regional aircraft business, believes the Q400X could be the 'beginning of a new product line'
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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Devilfish
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:04 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 2):
Further, there is no current, modern 50 seater (except the ATR42-500). DHC customers had no option, as the Q300 and Q400 are very different planes. It will be nice for there to be a next-generation turboprop in that size class.

It was reported that Bombardier was mulling both a shortened 56-seat and stretched 90-seat versions of its Q400.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...pawn-new-family-of-turboprops.html

Quote:
"Buoyed by the resurgent turboprop market, Bombardier is considering a shortened 56- to 58-seat derivative of its 76-seat Q400 in conjunction with existing studies into a stretched 90-seat version dubbed the Q400X.

Although Bombardier is keen to stress that studies are 'at the first phase', Steve Ridolfi, president of its regional aircraft business, believes the Q400X could be the 'beginning of a new product line'
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
freshlove1
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting N710PS (Reply 9):
Sounds like they are really hitting for this Piedmont contract. I hope they fail though personally. Dashes can do way more no matter what way you cut it. Not to mention that the Dash has an APU on it. If I am not mistaken the ATR does not have this. The same for the Saab.

And you don't have to worry about flying the DASH in the Northeast in the winter, they will fly in anything without a problem.
 
lrdc9
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:52 am

What American carriers, like American Eagle, will we see order the new a/c ...
Just say NO to scabs.
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:29 am

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 6):
They addressed it with the introduction of the six-blade propeller on -500 series. It's a non-issue - unless you're flying the old -212s/-300s.

I agree, the -500 is very quiet, especially compared to a new Q300 when sitting by the wing.

I hope NZ order the AT726, sounds like a great aircraft, can't wait to see what the flight deck is like
 
workhorse
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:59 pm

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 17):
How does Easyjet's proposed aircraft meet this particular market? Any discussion on that project from a major manufacturer?

Well, it comes from the same idea, but it is somewhat different, since they want it to seat 150-250 in single class, and it is much more 'futuristic': forward-swept wing, rear-mounted UDF etc. I am not sure such project is achievable in the 10 years to come.

On the other hand, a more 'classic' FBW, CFRP 5-seats-across turboprop is quite doable even by a smaller manufacturer like Bombardier or ATR, and it will offer huge cost saving opportunities as well.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:04 pm

I wonder can ATR use Airbus' assembly lines at Toulouse to build more turboprop airliners. One thing ATR should consider is redesigning the wing so it better handles cold-weather operations, which could make the ATR-42/72-600 models useful for regional flights in the northern half of the USA or in northern Europe.
 
gigneil
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:08 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 25):
One thing ATR should consider is redesigning the wing so it better handles cold-weather operations,

It does that JUST FINE now.

The whole incident was a long time ago, and on the first gen ATRs. Even THOSE have been fixed, much less the -500 and this new -600.

NS
 
extspotter
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:17 pm

There is one main point. As Props go, D84s are quick, ATRs are slooooooooooooooooooowww.
AF BE BY FR MV PD SZ U2 VZ DHC6, 8-3/4Q, 732/8, 763ER, A319, A380
 
columba
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:47 pm

How will you be able to spot the difference between the -500 and -600 series from the outside ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
BrianDromey
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:07 pm

Quoting N710PS (Reply 9):
Not to mention that the Dash has an APU on it. If I am not mistaken the ATR does not have this. The same for the Saab.

As mentioned above there is a prop brake, so no need for an APU. Its pretty clever really. All the benifits of an APU without the extra weight. There should be less maintenence too, unless the prop break is insanely complex.....

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 25):
One thing ATR should consider is redesigning the wing so it better handles cold-weather operations, which could make the ATR-42/72-600 models useful for regional flights in the northern half of the USA or in northern Europe.

Would someone please tell Finnair and Cimber Air (Denamrk) that their aircraft are not capable of winter operation? Finnair seems to have teh insane idea that they can operate ATR's within the Artic Circle........oh dear!

Brian.
 
airbuske
Topic Author
Posts: 194
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RE: ATR Launches The -600 Series Aircraft

Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:38 pm

Quoting Workhorse (Reply 24):
On the other hand, a more 'classic' FBW, CFRP 5-seats-across turboprop is quite doable even by a smaller manufacturer like Bombardier or ATR, and it will offer huge cost saving opportunities as well.

I agree - that was on the back of my mind as well.

Does the -500 make use of any composites for load bearing members of the a/c?

It would be interesting nice if ATR could introduce composite wings on the -600 just as Airbus are doing with the XWB.

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