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silentbob
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting PM (Reply 49):
My guess is that it is a new order for the old ten (if that makes sense!).

That was what was said back when the order was originally announced.
 
n710ps
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:14 am

Sad for me in the sense that I really think Boeing was a better plane but such is life. Great in the sense that it will keep the company my father is president of making money. We are one of if not the top freight forwarders for Alenia Aeronautica here states side. I remeber having parts (don't ask me what) of the A-380 in the wharehouse for what might have been ship number 1 and one of the wharehouse guys almost dropped a pallet ontop of the padded cases the parts were in. They were pretty long too which leads me to think they were farings of some sort.

Back to topic. I am a member of the USAirways family of companies and as much as I am sad we will not see 737's and 787's I am sure when Airbus finally firms somthing up for good it will be a decent plane.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
mah584jr
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 41):
10 new A330. Not 20.

This is correct. These 10 A330's are simply to replace the 762s that are currently in the fleet. There are not plans to buy 20. Any A340's will be bought second hand.
 
FlyingAY
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 52):
Any A340's will be bought second hand.

If you are so sure about this, can you please explain me, why the company states in its press release that they have the option to take some brand new A340s?

Quote:
The airline also executed a purchase agreement for 10 A330-200 aircraft with deliveries starting in 2009 and flexibility to convert to A330-300 or longer range A340s.
 
n710ps
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:05 am

The option is part of the contract but nothing will probably come of it. In the first round of Airbus widebody orders made back in the 90's this option was inthe contract but never exercised.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
Asiaflyer
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting Ilikeflight (Reply 44):
Would the A340's they order for the China route be new or will they come from somebody else?



Quoting FlyingAY (Reply 53):
If you are so sure about this, can you please explain me, why the company states in its press release that they have the option to take some brand new A340s?

With delivery of the new A330/340 to start 2009 and US China service to start also 2009, it sounds like this A330/340 order was taliored for the China routes.
My guess is that US has talked Airbus into deliver the new A340s in time for the China traffic starts.
 
silentbob
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:31 am

US has talked about getting some 340s as early as next year. Some will be picked up second hand but I wouldn't be surprised to see them convert a couple of the 332s into 340s.
 
vega
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 55):
With delivery of the new A330/340 to start 2009 and US China service to start also 2009, it sounds like this A330/340 order was taliored for the China routes.
My guess is that US has talked Airbus into deliver the new A340s in time for the China traffic starts.

US is now attempting to acquire 2-4 A340s in acceptable condition from 2nd sources. Only If that fails, will they will convert A332 orders to A340 orders, on a 1 to 1 basis - as stated in their agreement with Airbus. I speculate (with little basis) that if US does acquire 4 - 340s, 2 will be used for PEK and 2 for NRT if slots can be acquired from a Partner, or as an alternate, India.
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PM
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:48 am

Any idea which model of A340 US are looking at? (They'll be -300s if they're ex-AC but if they ordered new builds might they go for the -500?)
 
columba
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:00 am

Quoting PM (Reply 58):
Any idea which model of A340 US are looking at? (They'll be -300s if they're ex-AC but if they ordered new builds might they go for the -500?)

You are just hoping for RR engines, don´t you ??
I believe they will order the -300 although the -600 would be nice, too.
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teme82
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:01 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 11):
But it's kinda sad for those of us on the East Coast of the US as US Airways without Boeing just seems a bit off.. much like US works today. a lot off.. Not trying to be nationalistic or anything.. but it just seems that if you are gonna call it US Airways.. it should be at least some sort of American aircraft in the mix.. and it doesn't seem to be the case.. mainline is going all Airbus, Express is Canadian or Brazilian.. Not really anything brought from the ole U- S- of A...

I know what you are talking about. But the global economy is what it is. And there is competition on the market so I think US had good deal here with A.  Smile
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moo
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:34 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 46):
What is interesting is that absolutely no mention is made of the prior order for A330-200s or the prior order for A350XWBs,

Why should they have to mention the previous order?

Quoting Jlbmedia (Reply 48):
So after reading the many posts since the above "shot" at me, I am not the only one who still has questions about this issue! Moo, you can apologize when ever your ready.

And that won't be until the Airbus November O&D sheet comes out because I stand by my previous comment well and truely.

The press release makes it very clear these are 'newly ordered' aircraft.


Quoting Silentbob (Reply 50):
That was what was said back when the order was originally announced.

No it was not, the 'reannouncement of the previous order' is something that has only been discussed on here, it has not been confirmed by any official source.
 
Thorben
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:36 am

Quoting PM (Reply 58):
Any idea which model of A340 US are looking at? (They'll be -300s if they're ex-AC but if they ordered new builds might they go for the -500?)

I always understood it as that they could convert their A332s into A343s (or A333s, as recently read), but I am not sure about it. New A345 or A346 would be nice.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
gigneil
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:18 am

I am telling you, there are not 20 A330-200s on order. This firms the existing commitment.

Nobody is trying to claim there's now 44 A350XWBs on order, are they?

Come on, children, read the press release:

Quote:
Following an agreement announced in June 2007, US Airways has now signed the contract for the purchase of 92 Airbus aircraft...

NS
 
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moo
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:30 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 63):
I am telling you, there are not 20 A330-200s on order. This firms the existing commitment.

Nobody is trying to claim there's now 44 A350XWBs on order, are they?

No one is trying to claim there are 44 A350XWBs on order because the June 2007 press release dealing with the agreement mentioned specifically says they are a conversion from the original 20 A350 orders with an additional two airframes.

The 'confusion' about the A330s 'exists' because no mention is made of the previous order and thus some people like to think this is Airbus reannouncing the previous order, which is already on the books as a firm order and not a commitment, MoU, LoI or anything else (the A350 order will see the original 20 cancelled and these 22 booked for a net of plus two airframes).
 
gigneil
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:33 am

Quoting Moo (Reply 64):
The 'confusion' about the A330s 'exists' because no mention is made of the previous order and thus some people like to think this is Airbus reannouncing the previous order, which is already on the books as a firm order and not a commitment, MoU, LoI or anything else (the A350 order will see the original 20 cancelled and these 22 booked for a net of plus two airframes).

Show me some evidence of that please.

And then could you please indulge me in some rationale as to what US Airways is going to do with 32 A330s and 22 A350XWBs?

Or how they acquired slots for the fully booked A330 line in 2009 with a "new" order?

I'd also like to point out that the June 2007 agreement specifically calls for 92 aircraft. Exactly the same number signed for in this release.

NS

[Edited 2007-10-06 02:35:54]
 
Thorben
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:46 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 65):
And then could you please indulge me in some rationale as to what US Airways is going to do with 32 A330s and 22 A350XWBs?

Only 29 A330s in my count, 9 they have, 10 are on order, plus those new ten. The A350s will replace the old A330s, so that there won't be more than 30-40 WB planes at the same time. Allows for a decent expansion, China, etc. Given their masses of domestic flights, they could use more long-range. Their 767s will go when the A332s arrive.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
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moo
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:47 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 65):

Show me some evidence of that please.

Evidence of what? The 10 being on the order books previously? Sure -

http://www.airbus.com/en/corporate/orders_and_deliveries/

Download the spreadsheet, and take a look at the 'North America' tab for the US Airways East line, there are 10 outstanding orders booked.

If its evidence for the XWB conversion you are after, heres the June 2007 press release:

Quote:

The term sheet provisions for A350 XWB aircraft supersede and expand on an earlier US Airways order signed in 2005 for 20 of the original version of the A350 aircraft.

http://www.eads.net/1024/en/pressdb/...070618_airbus_us_airways_a350.html

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 65):
And then could you please indulge me in some rationale as to what US Airways is going to do with 32 A330s and 22 A350XWBs?

Thats not my area - I do not have to provide rational for any purchase made by a third party.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 65):
Or how they acquired slots for the fully booked A330 line in 2009 with a "new" order?

The last I heard was that the A330 line was fully booked only until end 2008 - there were free slots after that. Just because the A330 is selling well at the moment doesn't mean everyone wants their aircraft at the same time - this allows Airbus to create a production schedule with holes in it for precisely this sort of reason.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 65):
I'd also like to point out that the June 2007 agreement specifically calls for 92 aircraft. Exactly the same number signed for in this release.

Yes, and as noted above, it specifically mentions the previous A350 order being superseded but makes no mention of the previous A330 order in the same vein.
 
gigneil
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:58 am

Let's bet a genuine delicacy of our homelands.

I don't know what Kiwis eat, but I will find something uniquely American and ship it on down under.

NS
 
PADSpot
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:37 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 68):
I don't know what Kiwis eat

?

Quoting Moo (Reply 67):

The last I heard was that the A330 line was fully booked only until end 2008 - there were free slots after that. Just because the A330 is selling well at the moment doesn't mean everyone wants their aircraft at the same time - this allows Airbus to create a production schedule with holes in it for precisely this sort of reason.

Before they ramped up production, the A330 was sold out until 2011. Through the production volume increase each year got some additional slots, but the production schedule as such remains tight. It won't be long until Leahy is going to waive the "sold-out" sign. As B787 production will also be sold out until the A350 EIS (or is already?) we will have a fair race from that point in time ...
 
Thorben
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:12 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 69):
As B787 production will also be sold out until the A350 EIS (or is already?) we will have a fair race from that point in time ...

Well, I think there are always some slots kept for special customers. BA will get the first 787 in 2010, because Boeing "found" (  Yeah sure ) some production slots that they could get.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
PADSpot
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:36 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 70):
because Boeing "found" ( Yeah sure ) some production slots that they could get.

True for both OEMs, hence no distortion of a fair race  Smile
 
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PM
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 59):

You are just hoping for RR engines, don�t you ??

Moi?!  wideeyed 

Quoting Moo (Reply 64):
The 'confusion' about the A330s 'exists' because no mention is made of the previous order and thus some people like to think this is Airbus reannouncing the previous order, which is already on the books as a firm order and not a commitment, MoU, LoI or anything else

Trouble is, the Airbus spreadsheet has carried several orders which everyone knew were dead and buried. Three x A346 for AC? The A310s for Iraq? The 18 A346s for EK? NW ordered A330s and deferred them indefinitely but they remained on the books. Then NW ordered them anew. My guess is that this US order is the same sort of thing.

Quoting Moo (Reply 61):
Why should they have to mention the previous order?

They are not obliged to but it would be common practice to announce something like, "With these 10 additional orders US now have 20 A330s to be delivered between 20xx and 20xx..." or something like that. Fact is, they didn't.

I'd put money on this "new" order being the "old" one with new life breathed into it.

(But I'll be happy to be proved wrong.)
 
MCOflyer
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:42 pm

I believe this is the original order. They ordered earlier this year with the big order for 321's and now it is revision.

Hunter
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RW170
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:18 pm

According to the US Airways employee newsletter, US has the following outstanding orders...

From the FAQ section:

Q: So what's the grand total for new airplanes at US Airways?
A: The grand total is 150 aircraft set to be delivered. That includes 97 A320 family aircraft (including 37 planes from a previous order), 21 E190s, 10 A330-200s, and 22 A350s.

From another question about the future widebody fleet, it specifically says "Ten new A330-200 aircraft will be added to the fleet beginning in 2009...."

I think it's pretty clear that there are only 10 A330s on order.
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dhefty
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:45 pm

Quoting RW170 (Reply 75):
Q: So what's the grand total for new airplanes at US Airways?
A: The grand total is 150 aircraft set to be delivered. That includes 97 A320 family aircraft (including 37 planes from a previous order), 21 E190s, 10 A330-200s, and 22 A350s.

US has 52 narrow-bodies on order, including 15 A318, 13 A319, 9 A320 and 15 A321 aircraft. (Source: Airbus Orders & Deliveries 8/07).

Since US states a total of 97 narrow-bodies to be delivered, there are therefore only 45 new NB orders to be added. They will add 10 A319, 40 A320, and 10 A321 along with a cancellation of 15 A318 for a total of 45 new narrow-bodies.

US is also adding 2 A350s, so the total net new Airbus orders is 47, leaving a total of 129 to be delivered. On top of this are the 21 Embraer E190s for a grand total of 150.
 
jlbmedia
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:10 pm

How long can USAirways wait to acquire A340's from the 2nd hand market, before they would have to order them new, and get them in time for the China start up? John.
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jlbmedia
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:25 pm

Quoting Moo (Reply 31):
Quoting Jlbmedia (Reply 28):
I still am not straight on this. The above quote dose not answer my question of 10 or 20 A330's. It relates to the "new" order. It dose not mention the old order. So we know when the new A330 order will be delivered, but how about the old order? Maybe it no longer exists! Maybe it is just me, but i'm still confused about this topic.

[quote=Moo,reply=31]
I fail to comprehend why it is confusing as the press release makes it clear this is a new order, and I fear that no matter what is said here today in any way to try and clarify for you, your confusion will remain.

Therefor I shall suggest you keep an eye on the Airbus O&D spreadsheet for October (released somewhere around the 7th or 8th November).

Hey Moo,
I fail to comprehend why it is confusing to you, I fear that no matter what is said here today in any way to try and clarify for you, your confusion will remain.
JLB54061
 
Flighty
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:32 pm

Quoting Jlbmedia (Reply 77):
How long can USAirways wait to acquire A340's from the 2nd hand market, before they would have to order them new, and get them in time for the China start up? John.

I think it is getting close. Either they find some used ones before say Dec 2007 or Feb 2008, or they are going to need to pull the trigger at Airbus and get some "new" A340-300E. Airbus will certainly accommodate whatever US might need. They need a 7000nm capable aircraft by March 2009. And of course, the whole idea is to have A350s just as soon as they are ready and dump the A340.
 
dhefty
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:54 pm

Here's the way I see it:



    TYPE.....BACKLOG............NEW..........TOTAL

    A318..........15......................-15...............0
    A319..........13.....................+10..............23
    A320............9.....................+40..............49
    A321..........15.....................+10..............25
    _________________________________________
    TOTAL.NB..52.....................+45..............97

    A330...........10........................0..............10
    A350...........20........................2..............22
    _________________________________________
    TOTAL.WB..30......................+2..............32

    TOTAL.........82....................+47............129



Anyone see it differently?
 
blrBird
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:03 pm

Will US use these 332's for any tatl routes from PHX assuming that 332 can do that?
from star dust....
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:13 pm

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 81):
Will US use these 332's for any tatl routes from PHX assuming that 332 can do that?

There has been rumored PHX-FRA service mentioned to the pilots by senior US management, but nothing official right now.
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RW170
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:14 pm

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 81):

They've mentioned the possibility of limited transatlantic flights from PHX to possibly LGW, CDG, of FRA, and the A332 is definitely capable, so the idea will probably come to fruition within the next few years.
319/320/321/712/733/734/735/73G/738/752/753/763/CR2/CR9/DH8/135/145/170/175/190/D9S/D94/D95/M82/M83/M88
 
vega
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:08 pm

For the nth time, there are orders for a TOTAL of TEN 332s, not 20, with deliveries starting in 2009.

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 81):
Will US use these 332's for any tatl routes from PHX assuming that 332 can do that?

Parker had previously stated to Analysts (about 2 years ago), that PHX would not see European service until the 350 was delivered. That was before the 350 was changed (from expected 2010/2011 first deliveries) to the 350XWB with 2014 first deliveries. The 332 has adequate range for PHX-LHR and PHX-FRA, excepting for possible summer PHX environmental considerations, just like any other aircraft. Since the 350 is not available until 2014+, PHX could be reconsidered IF US has sufficient aircraft to grow PHL and to replace the existing weight restricted, US peculiar, low range 333s and 762s to Rome, Athens and possibly to Moscow (2008). A high priority New 332 route would surely be PHL-TLV with one of the first 332s, although they could do this route earlier (2008) with 2 of 4 340s (if they acquire 4), instead of a second Eastern Asian city. Since the 332 deliveries are stretched out over 2 years (2009-2010) and assuming the first 4-6 are targeted for the above, it would seem difficult to assign any to PHX until at least 2009, unless US does some innovative share schedule planning, such as PHX-FRA(LHR)-PHL-FRA(LHR)-PHX - assuming a 332 is assigned the route. I'd speculate however, that unlike the situation at PHL, US would not compete with LH if they started PHX-FRA, .
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
vega
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:06 pm

Quoting Vega (Reply 84):
Since the 332 deliveries are stretched out over 2 years (2009-2010) and assuming the first 4-6 are targeted for the above, it would seem difficult to assign any to PHX until at least 2009....

Obviously I meant 2010, not 2009.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
mah584jr
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:12 am

Quoting FlyingAY (Reply 53):
If you are so sure about this, can you please explain me, why the company states in its press release that they have the option to take some brand new A340s?

The option is there in case a dire need of new A340's, which is not the case at this point. The plan is to replace the aging 762's as a mentioned before. They are to be delivered and replace them on a one to one basis. The A340s bought for the China route will be secondhand. They are certified to start flying to PVG in March of 2009, but the first delivery of the 10 332's will not begin until after March. Do you think US is going to wait around a few months for a new 340 when there are plenty of quality secondhand 343's that will become available between now and then? That would be thousands in lost revenues.

If US is awarded another long haul asian route from PHL, they may opt to change some 332s to 343s afterall. This has NOT happened though, therefore none of us can say whether they will utilize this option or not.
 
steeler83
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:41 am

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 86):
If US is awarded another long haul asian route from PHL, they may opt to change some 332s to 343s afterall. This has NOT happened though, therefore none of us can say whether they will utilize this option or not.

Then they will have A340 and A350s for Asia. I wonder which routes will get which planes. I wonder if they'll use some of those birds to launch a couple of PHX-Europe routes, while the A332s could be used for something like PHL-TLV or Dubai...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
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moo
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:55 am

Quoting Jlbmedia (Reply 78):
Hey Moo,
I fail to comprehend why it is confusing to you, I fear that no matter what is said here today in any way to try and clarify for you, your confusion will remain.

Oh wow, sarcasm - it cuts sooo deep, I'm so hurt!! Wait ... wait ... nope, no I'm just not caring.

I am under absolutely no confusion - the press release suggests quite plainly these are new orders, I have suggested to you that you wait until the October O&D sheet is released, and until that time I will personally consider these A330s a new order in addition to those already on the spreadsheet.

If the situation changes when the October O&D spreadsheet is released, I will duly change my opinion.

Quoting PM (Reply 72):

Trouble is, the Airbus spreadsheet has carried several orders which everyone knew were dead and buried. Three x A346 for AC? The A310s for Iraq? The 18 A346s for EK?

Airbus is obligated to carry those orders until either delivery is impossible (the A310 line closed with the A300 line), or the order is actually cancelled - Airbus cannot simply chop and change as enthusiasts demand, there is a huge legal difference between the order 'being dead and buried' in hearsay and no contract requiring delivery existing.

That is why those orders remained - they legally have to.
 
Thorben
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:25 am

Quoting PM (Reply 72):
Trouble is, the Airbus spreadsheet has carried several orders which everyone knew were dead and buried. Three x A346 for AC? The A310s for Iraq? The 18 A346s for EK? NW ordered A330s and deferred them indefinitely but they remained on the books. Then NW ordered them anew. My guess is that this US order is the same sort of thing.

They keep them in the orderbooks, as long as there is a valid contract, not as long as the a.net "experts" believe that it is valid. Airbus probably even has some down payments for those planes, that shareholders need to know about, because it is an asset that doesn't really belong to them.

AC apparently has not canceled the A346 yet.
Iraqi hasn't canceled their A310s yet. However, Airbus isn't building them any longer, so there are several options; cancellation, or conversion to A32x or A330.
The 18 A346 for EK are no longer in the sheet, as are the A380s for FedEx and UPS. So Airbus takes them out of the sheet, when the deal is canceled.
NW still needs to find a solution, if they don't want them, they could convert the contract to A32x, or sell the A330s to another company.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
bmacleod
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:21 pm

Never thought I'd see a U.S. carrier so close to an all Airbus fleet. NW is more than halfway there.

Any idea when US will phase out its 757s? There are more than a few airlines begging for 757s.  drool 

I know the A321 doesn't match its range but it comes close and with a few modifications....

[Edited 2007-10-07 05:32:32]
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
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PM
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:42 pm

Quoting Moo (Reply 88):
That is why those orders remained - they legally have to.



Quoting Thorben (Reply 89):
They keep them in the orderbooks, as long as there is a valid contract, not as long as the a.net "experts" believe that it is valid.

Indeed. And that is really my point. My guess is that the US order for 10 x A332s is (or was) moribund but had to remain on the books. This "new" order is, I'm guessing, a reaffirmation of the same order.

I can understand why you want want to believe that the order is for 20 (so do I!) but I think the cold reality is that it's the same order as before.

Sorry.
 
columba
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:57 pm

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 76):
US has 52 narrow-bodies on order, including 15 A318

I think these already have been changed into orders for the A319. I was told US will take no A318 at all.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
Thorben
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:02 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 91):
Indeed. And that is really my point. My guess is that the US order for 10 x A332s is (or was) moribund but had to remain on the books. This "new" order is, I'm guessing, a reaffirmation of the same order.

I can understand why you want want to believe that the order is for 20 (so do I!) but I think the cold reality is that it's the same order as before.

Sorry.

OK, I think we'll just wait until the O&D excel sheet is out, then all doubts will be settled.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
ly204
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:48 pm

Ive heard references to the 343 being used as a temporary measure for the new China flights. Why was the 345/346 not considered further?
 
PADSpot
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:51 pm

Quoting LY204 (Reply 94):
Why was the 345/346 not considered further?

Too large? Too bad compared to the Boeing?
 
gigneil
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:56 pm

The A340-500 isn't too much bigger, its just a lot more airfarme than is necessary.

NS
 
Flighty
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:10 pm

Quoting Moo (Reply 88):
I am under absolutely no confusion - the press release suggests quite plainly these are new orders, I have suggested to you that you wait until the October O&D sheet is released, and until that time I will personally consider these A330s a new order in addition to those already on the spreadsheet.

I think you have every right to your own personal feelings. And you're 100% right, the press release did say these A330-200s are new orders.

One thing we might have forgotten is, US Airways' original A350 order was meant as a conversion of its pending A330. If US bought the A350, the A330 was canceled. This provision may have survived. The old A330 orders may actually be dead legally (not just informally dead as we thought). Since US has ordered all the A350 ever discussed, I think the original A330 order is in fact officially dead thanks to their contracts in around 2005 giving US the right to cancel A330s. So, if US wants A330 after all, new orders are the only possible way. The old A330s did not get a headline announcing their cancellation, but US probably did cancel them since it had that right.
 
ouboy79
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:46 pm

I don't see why it is such an issue to understand US will not take 20 A330 aircraft, except for the sake of being flame bate.

I believe this was posted earlier, but people are still asking on what replaces what...

From: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....rticle_print&ID=1059300&highlight=
Also you can go to: www.justplanenews.com for most of this info.

The airline executed a purchase agreement for 22 A350 XWBs in both the -800 and larger -900 series configuration. This allows for modest international expansion or replacement of existing older technology aircraft should market conditions warrant.

The airline will take delivery of the first A350 XWBs in 2014, becoming the North American launch customer for the fleet type. Purchase rights for additional aircraft are included, allowing for the eventual retirement of all other wide-body jets and leaving the airline with a single intercontinental fleet type of A350 XWBs.

The airline also executed a purchase agreement for 10 A330-200 aircraft with deliveries starting in 2009 and flexibility to convert to A330-300 or longer range A340s. These deliveries will facilitate the eventual retirement of US Airways' B767 fleet.

A third purchase agreement was executed for 60 narrow-body aircraft, including 10 A319s, 40 A320s and 10 A321s, with conversion rights. Narrow-body deliveries, including 37 aircraft from a previous purchase agreement, run from 2008 through 2012. Classic Boeing 737-300/400s will be eliminated from the fleet as the A320s are delivered. The narrow-body fleet count is expected to remain stable.
 
silentbob
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 82):
There has been rumored PHX-FRA service mentioned to the pilots by senior US management, but nothing official right now.

In addition to Vega's comments I don't believe any widebody service from PHX will be announced until the seniority list issues are resolved and there is one pilot contract. Even if the disputed award were accepted, and I have no desire to debate that issue, there are still fences that would prohibit pre-merger west pilots from operating those aircraft. Until that mess is resolved, don't expect any announcements on international ops from PHX.
 
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RE: US Firms Up Airbus Order

Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:06 am

ATW Online today (Monday) has an interesting take on the question of whether the 10 x A332 are "new" or not.

"US also confirmed an order for 10 A330-200s that will start delivering in 2009."

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=10428

"Confirmed". Sounds like a repeat of the old order to me.

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